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[Motd] Legal threats?ANN.lu
Posted on 06-Apr-2004 07:24 GMT by Christian Kemp (Edited on 2004-04-06 10:09:44 GMT by Christian Kemp)1057 comments
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I am currently being threatened by my former employer (they are "compelled [to] take action against [me]") for the way I am running ANN, and how this allegedly violates my employment contract with them ("interfere _in any manner_ with any business relationship between the Company and any of its customers or business partners"). This might entail drastic changes to the relative freedom of speech ANN has always allowed its visitors, or ANN might close down altogether. Updated 10:00 CET.
Legal threats? : Comment 151 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Shut the Buck up! on 06-Apr-2004 10:50 GMT
Wow, even MorphZone.org is shocked!
Legal threats? : Comment 152 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 06-Apr-2004 10:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (T_Bone):
Posted by T_Bone (24.241.148.80) on 06-Apr-2004 09:57:53

In Reply to Comment 70 (Anonymous):
>Hey Rich Wood where are you?

Sleeping I bet, have you checked the world clock, it's the middle of the night here :D
------------
I was in Rocky Point, MX for the weekend
Legal threats? : Comment 153 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by BBRVWillLookUpMyIP on 06-Apr-2004 10:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 148 (Fabio Alemagna):
I apologize, I didn't read all the posts before commenting. I got the impression that you were defending BBRV in your comments to Amon_Re but after reading the whole thread I see I was wrong.
Legal threats? : Comment 154 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 10:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 153 (BBRVWillLookUpMyIP):
No problem.
Legal threats? : Comment 155 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 06-Apr-2004 11:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Anonymous):
Posted by Anonymous (80.133.128.34) on 06-Apr-2004 12:19:46

Just for consideration: at this point, the story is one-sided, placed by Christian on his own site, and not fleshed out with details. We can not verify facts, haven't heard the other side and don't know if claims made are true. Everybody is just jumping to conclusions. I personally found some of Christian's actions questionable in the past, such as placing the "advertising was not paid for" troll sign on ann. Neither do I like the removal of links to morphzone etc. I get the impression that, sometimes, ann and its visitors are used by Christian to score points (cheated out of money, now taking his revenge). I don't want to be used that way. Clear statements, facts: fine. But the backstabbing, from all sides, starts to get on my nerves.
--------------------------

Smart thinking. However - when more facts come to light - I'd be one of the first persons to donate $50 to a legal fund for ANN if needed.

And my word is good. Let's see how many others would do the same - real name and "pledge" IF NEEDED.
Legal threats? : Comment 156 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by kalmar on 06-Apr-2004 11:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 155 (Rich Woods):
I'll go for that!
Dollars are pretty much worthless anyway, the amount is only equivalent to a takeaway meal :)
Legal threats? : Comment 157 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 06-Apr-2004 11:25 GMT
If this legal action is from BBRV and Chris comprove it publically I will have to add only 3 words:

BBRV fuck yourself!

With these unusefull action you are only put a bad light on Pegasos and MorphOs: stay away from us.

We are reaching REALLY the lowest possible level of tollerance with those ppl starting from BillyBoy Mcew, to Gary Hare, to Ben Hermann and to you, Bill Buck (and Rachel).

You all are contributing to destroy a community :(
Legal threats? : Comment 158 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 06-Apr-2004 11:28 GMT
I would just like to say to everyone that this is not a time for telling Christian "I told you so". This is a time when we need to show Christian our support, if not financially then atleast morally.

@Christian

Let me know if there is any way that I could be of help. There might not be much I can offer at the moment, but I would still like to let you know that I and many others are there for you. Our past differences, whatever they may have been, are long gone and completely forgotten in a moment like this.
Legal threats? : Comment 159 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 06-Apr-2004 11:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 157 (Eva):
That say's it all folks. Eva doesn't support this action :D
Legal threats? : Comment 160 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 06-Apr-2004 11:33 GMT
That's it... I love my Pegasos and MorphOS, I will keep updating my site
but I will *NEVER* support such an action. NEVER EVER!

That's the LOWEST of the LOW!
Legal threats? : Comment 161 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 06-Apr-2004 11:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (DaveP):
@DaveP,

its much simpler than that DaveP.

Make threat. People Cave.
Cost=nothing.

typically. But it won't happen here, I don't think.
Legal threats? : Comment 162 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 06-Apr-2004 11:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 157 (Eva):
@Eva

;)

The communities are more even now when both have their own Bill lunatics. ;)

btw. don't you agree that Garry Hare is "almost" an angel when comparing to those others?

(usually it requires a few years for a Amiga related CEO to become a full dickhead, Garry does not qualify yet for that...)

The main difference between diehard amiga(technology) fans and wintel fans is that we KNOW that the Bill at the steering wheel is an *******.
Legal threats? : Comment 163 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 06-Apr-2004 11:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 159 (T_Bone):
"That say's it all folks. Eva doesn't support this action :D" Noone can support this idiotism :-/
Legal threats? : Comment 164 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 11:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (priest):
> btw. don't you agree that Garry Hare is "almost" an angel when comparing to
> those others?

No one knows Garry Hare and, besides, it's not like we need someone to fill the "empty" places now.
Legal threats? : Comment 165 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 11:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 163 (itix):
All mos developers should boycott BBRV, thats a powerfull message right?
Legal threats? : Comment 166 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 11:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 165 (Anonymous):
By boycott i mean stop all development for a short while
Legal threats? : Comment 167 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 11:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 165 (Anonymous):
I rather think all red trolls should go back to their place and save their advices for someone else.

Don't you agree?
Legal threats? : Comment 168 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 11:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 167 (Fabio Alemagna):
You not helping here are you?
Legal threats? : Comment 169 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 06-Apr-2004 11:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (oGALAXYo):
> Hello Christian,

Hello oGALAXYo,

Starts nice, but somewhere round the middle,

> The quality of ANN is lower than on Slashdot or even OSNews.com. Amiga.org,
> MorphZone.org, Amiga-News.de yes and even AmigaWorld.net (in their own world)
> have far better quality of stuff to read about.

Must say, great endorsement of this site.

> There is no need for you quitting ANN.

?????

> As for now I think that they majority of really serious participants either
> totally shut up or quit participating to normal conversations because of the
> same low quality.

More endorsing?

> I hope I was able to reply quite neutrally here. Also please respect my
> direct reply to you.

Even handed, yes, but he got below a C- from you.*

> greetings,

> oGALAXYo

Well, I'm SURE this encourages Christian Kemp to put the links back up.

Have a nice day.



* I stated that HIS view was even handed (I expect that he used unbiased judgement in reviewing his experiences here). I DO NOT conclude to the same opinion of this website as oGALAXYo did. I feel that this site is run professionally. Is even handed (have stated so in the past, as well), and that every attempt is made, to as quickly as is reasonably possible, to maintain civility, without eliminating the flow of conversation, so that ideas continue to be shared. (For better or for worse.)


This is an important site. It has been here many years. Before Genesi. Before Amiga Inc. (Before other stuff too.) It's informed, helped, kept people here, and yes, entertained (come on, admit it!!) THOUSANDS of users.

I can't promise you a donation, I'm not in a position to send you something right now, so at least, I agree with the petition.

This is DAMN wrong bbrv. (Look up dignity and integrity, two things Christian Kemp has more of, that your money can't buy.)


I give this site an A.
Legal threats? : Comment 170 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 11:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 167 (Fabio Alemagna):
And btw how can you call this trolling? I have nothing against either one of the sides, just gave a suggestion, but if you support all of this then fine
Legal threats? : Comment 171 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Gru on 06-Apr-2004 11:51 GMT
Looks like Buck is trying to out bill McBill. I'll chuck 50Euro or so into a legal defense fund if need be, and I'm sure most on both sides of the fense will too. Some may worship McBill and crew, but no one worships Buck. Bad actions are seen as bad actions and none will tolerate it.

Buck, you are likely to be eaten by a Gru.
Legal threats? : Comment 172 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 11:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 168 (Anonymous):
> You not helping here are you?

Helping to do what, exactly?
Legal threats? : Comment 173 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 06-Apr-2004 11:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 155 (Rich Woods):
I like the way the community comes together, even with money.
I would donate $50 to a legal fund too, though I assume it won't be necessary.

btw, Chris didn't say this was bbrv, but we all know its bbrv.

to those who are saying noone listened to the 'warnings' well...obviously someone picked up an impression or two.
Legal threats? : Comment 174 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 11:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 172 (Fabio Alemagna):
support this website for one thing ;-)
Legal threats? : Comment 175 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 11:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 170 (Anonymous):
> And btw how can you call this trolling? I have nothing against either one of
> the sides, just gave a suggestion, but if you support all of this then fine

A suggestion that would help whom, exactly?
Legal threats? : Comment 176 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 11:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 174 (Anonymous):
> support this website for one thing ;-)

And how is bashing people or suggesting that development for a specific platform is halted support anyone, yet alone this site?
Legal threats? : Comment 177 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 06-Apr-2004 11:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 167 (Fabio Alemagna):
How do you know he is red troll ? I think we all think the same about this situation, no matter if we are red, blue, green, yellow, brown or something like that. I think there is now just Christian supporters, not people with different colour.
Legal threats? : Comment 178 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 11:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 157 (Eva):
> If this legal action is from BBRV and Chris comprove it publically I will have to add only 3 words: BBRV fuck yourself!

Is there legal action? People get a bit carried away here and on other sites with the "ann under legal attack" aspect and don't read the crumbs of information that are presented. Instead, they pledge money for a legal counterattack ;) Christian does not confirm that legal action was taken, if I read the questionmark in the thread's title correctly. You run a forum, you will at some point meet people that threaten you with lawyers. People get upset, fact of life. Then they start throwing around threats and laywers. Happens all the time and seems to go away on its own, after heads have cooled down a bit. Barking dogs don't bite. It's a bit unusal though that a web master makes such an incident his top-story and a free speech issue. Maybe it's serious, maybe not. Maybe Christain has to defend himself as good as he can, maybe he is trying to milk it for best effect and his own cause. Who knows.
Legal threats? : Comment 179 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 11:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 176 (Fabio Alemagna):
well, no other related sites are in trouble
Legal threats? : Comment 180 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 06-Apr-2004 11:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Fabio Alemagna):
>> Yes. Also because I don't remove "libellious statements". However, no single
>> link has been pointed out to me that would contain any such libellious
>> statements.

> Then don't panic. Wait for them to point the statements out, and then decide
> whether it's the case to remove them.

> After all, you're not entitled to know whether a statemenet is libellious or
> not, not to mention that you can't be deemed responsible for what other people
> write. If they think some statements were libellious, they should take it upon
> who wrote them.

Sounds like Genesi has turned into the SCO of Amigaland.

SCO: "All your code are belong to us!"
Genesi: "All your posts are belong to us!"
Legal threats? : Comment 181 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 06-Apr-2004 11:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 166 (Anonymous):
But Genesi != MorphOS. Well, I'm not going to buy Peg2 for a while now. If these games stop maybe I can consider it again. Hmm... on the other hand I could delete powersdl sources.... only I have the latest fixes...
Legal threats? : Comment 182 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 11:57 GMT
Christian, you have proven your supernatural powers to remove the links and to control our minds in a way that we feel obliged to swear on BBRV.

But as long as you don't answer to who exactly was your former employer, and what the exact threat was, this should be considered a flamebait and belongs to the forum section. Put up or shut up - or take this out on moobunny. By trolling you're only adding to the damage.
Legal threats? : Comment 183 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 11:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 176 (Fabio Alemagna):
bashing?!? Im as calm as ever, what is YOUR suggestion then to solve this issue?
Legal threats? : Comment 184 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 06-Apr-2004 11:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 158 (Sammy Nordström):
I'll second that!
Legal threats? : Comment 185 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 11:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 177 (miksuh):
> How do you know he is red troll ?

Fair enough, for all that we know he was just trollin, not red-trolling.

> I think we all think the same about this situation, no matter if we are red,
> blue, green, yellow, brown or something like that.

No, I apparently don't think like the majority here. For one, I don't endorse what BBRV allegedly wrote to Christian, but on the other hand I don't endorse the silliness that pervades this whole thread.

> I think there is now just Christian supporters, not people with different
> colour.

I don't see any support for Christian in 99% of the posts in this thread, I only see attacks to Genesi and, specifically, bbrv masked out as support for Christian. Quite a big difference.
Legal threats? : Comment 186 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 11:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 179 (Anonymous):
> well, no other related sites are in trouble

That doesn't answer my question, does it?
Legal threats? : Comment 187 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 06-Apr-2004 12:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 180 (Lennart Fridén):
> Sounds like Genesi has turned into the SCO of Amigaland.

> SCO: "All your code are belong to us!"
> Genesi: "All your posts are belong to us!"


LMAO!!!

That Macromedia Flash video is PRICELESS!!!!!!! (It IS, it's free!)
Legal threats? : Comment 188 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 06-Apr-2004 12:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 177 (miksuh):
Hmm to be clear I have no opinion about that boycott thing, i did not mean it but this whole situation.
Legal threats? : Comment 189 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 12:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 183 (Anonymous):
> bashing?!? Im as calm as ever,

To bash you don't need to be upset, you know...

> what is YOUR suggestion then to solve this issue?

You, we or anyone else cannot solve any issue, we can only show our moral support to Christian and demand that he makes names and his accusations clears and substantiated with facts. I'm no saying I don't believe him, but I've learned to not trust very much anyone that doesn't answer in a straight way to simple questions like "so, who threatened you, and why?".
Legal threats? : Comment 190 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 06-Apr-2004 12:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (AdmV):
Count me in!
Legal threats? : Comment 191 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 06-Apr-2004 12:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 182 (Anonymous):
> By trolling you're only adding to the damage.

He's not trolling. Someone threatened legal action against the site. How is that not newsworthy? To tell you the god honest truth, he's handled everything well, I tell you, if someone failed to pay ME I'd be shouting foul from the mountaintops, Christian has been very cool headed.
Legal threats? : Comment 192 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 06-Apr-2004 12:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 187 (Atheist2):
Actually, I can't remember to have seen said video. :-) I'd better go look for it though, for this whole mess makes me feel in need of a good laughter...
Legal threats? : Comment 193 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Joe on 06-Apr-2004 12:08 GMT
I think what Bill Buck doing is fantastic and i am behind him 100%. Bill get this site shutdown and you will without doubt be a hero in most peoples eyes.

Kemp has been asking for this for a while now and i hope Bill follows through and kills this site once and for all.
Legal threats? : Comment 194 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 12:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 191 (T_Bone):
I beg to differ. Christian has purposedly (you can't say no, all evidence points to it) and carefully written a news item that makes no names and doesn't substantiate with facts the few words it contains, but only suggests something, even the name of the persons involved is just suggested.

As much as I respect Christian and his work, this behaviour is not fair, nor respectable. The issue should have been handled differently, for example by making accusations and names clear.
Legal threats? : Comment 195 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Joe on 06-Apr-2004 12:09 GMT
I think what Bill Buck is doing is fantastic and i am behind him 100%. Bill get this site shutdown and you will without doubt be a hero in most peoples eyes.

Kemp has been asking for this for a while now and i hope Bill follows through and kills this site once and for all.
Legal threats? : Comment 196 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 06-Apr-2004 12:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 195 (Joe):
pffft, what a weak attempt at trolling.
Legal threats? : Comment 197 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by kalmar on 06-Apr-2004 12:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 185 (Fabio Alemagna):
> I don't see any support for Christian in 99% of the posts in this thread, I only
> see attacks to Genesi and, specifically, bbrv masked out as support for
> Christian. Quite a big difference.

So? I think it's reasonable to assume who the "former employer" is. BBRV is the one who has caused this trouble by the looks of it, so why shouldn't people comment on that?
Legal threats? : Comment 198 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 06-Apr-2004 12:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 185 (Fabio Alemagna):
>I don't see any support for Christian in 99% of the posts in this thread, I
>only see attacks to Genesi and, specifically, bbrv masked out as support for
>Christian.

I don't think arguing with those kind of posts is going to help, Fabio. Just ignore them and show *your* support for Christian. Hopefully, more people will follow your example.
Legal threats? : Comment 199 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Joe on 06-Apr-2004 12:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 196 (redrumloa):
Farley you always stupidly claim Trolling, i seriously mean it and stick by my words. i think what Bill Buck is doing is the right things to do, if you do not like my opinion then tough shit - go and moan elsewhere.
Legal threats? : Comment 200 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 12:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 191 (T_Bone):
Christian is keeping his claims in an ambiguous state, which stirs up premature condemnations. If anything qualifies as trolling, then this.
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