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[Motd] Legal threats?ANN.lu
Posted on 06-Apr-2004 07:24 GMT by Christian Kemp (Edited on 2004-04-06 10:09:44 GMT by Christian Kemp)1057 comments
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I am currently being threatened by my former employer (they are "compelled [to] take action against [me]") for the way I am running ANN, and how this allegedly violates my employment contract with them ("interfere _in any manner_ with any business relationship between the Company and any of its customers or business partners"). This might entail drastic changes to the relative freedom of speech ANN has always allowed its visitors, or ANN might close down altogether. Updated 10:00 CET.
Legal threats? : Comment 51 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 06-Apr-2004 06:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Seehund):
"Oh well, I suppose they thank Buck over at the Alternate Reality Portal, now that the existence of this "blue troll" haven and source of "blue FUD" and "Genesi propaganda", run by "Genesi's payed lackey", is at risk. Hah. :P "

Seehund, get over yourself, really.
Legal threats? : Comment 52 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 06-Apr-2004 07:00 GMT
Why not setup a legal entity and transfer www.ann.lu and related items to that entity?
Legal threats? : Comment 53 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 07:02 GMT
Christian,

So many persons that approached bbrv in the last 3 years have had big problems.
Air France, Amiga Inc, Coyotte Flux, and so many others we like to see each week now some persons who have had problems with him.

Don't worry...did you know that he send those accusations to...well, many persons recieved this kind of beautifull messages!

But don't worry, If bbrv is making you go on court, we'll launch a petition to
help you. And don't worry!
Legal threats? : Comment 54 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 06-Apr-2004 07:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (DaveP):
Yeah, my admittedly snide remark was unnecessary, I think the irony of the situation should be obvious to most.
Legal threats? : Comment 55 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 06-Apr-2004 07:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Seehund):
Sure, it just shows how things can spin around on a sixpence and what was the case one day might not be the next.
Legal threats? : Comment 56 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 06-Apr-2004 07:10 GMT
This is one of Genesi's SADDEST days and acts, I must say.


I apologize to Rich Woods. You are the second person that I thought may have been behind this.
Legal threats? : Comment 57 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Apr-2004 07:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Atheist2):
Please, stop it.
Legal threats? : Comment 58 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 07:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Raffaele):
>This is a certain reason for me not to consider anymore the products this>person (he who menaced Chris) could sell...Yes, please hire Petro to sell us those Bplan products! ;)
Legal threats? : Comment 59 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 06-Apr-2004 07:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (DaveP):
I don't agree with that anything has spun around. ANN has never been a forum intended for or even dominated by "blue trolls" or a means to exclusively market Genesi products, and CK has never been a lackey for anyone (not with regards to ANN anyway, some might consider any employment to equal being a "lackey"). ANN has always been *open*, and it's obvious that "trolls" of all "colours" have taken advantage of this and liked it, or they would have left/shut up.
Legal threats? : Comment 60 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Apr-2004 07:23 GMT
WTF?

Cheers
Legal threats? : Comment 61 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 06-Apr-2004 07:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (Seehund):
I think you are reading a lot into the spinning around remark ;-)
Legal threats? : Comment 62 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 07:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Seehund):
Dunno if Christian ever said he wasn't paid for his employment, just not paid for the advert. So a legally binding contract may well exist with the stuff in it about interfering with business relationships.

Anyway looks like BB has finally given up on the Amiga market altogether and is now trying to alienate it totally. Nice way to make sales and improve business relationships.

I can find no words low or insulting enough to throw in BB's direction.
Legal threats? : Comment 63 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 06-Apr-2004 07:30 GMT
It is the moment for the amigan users to throw in the wastebasket all the morons who are threatening to deprive us of our freedom of speech...


We can't bear anymore the attempts worldwide to reduce the freedoms granted by the freedom on internet,

And MORE,

We can't bear anymore ANY attempt to destroy EVEN our little community...

It is time to stop it...

And more...

...I want to recall you the statements of a "certain person" on about HOW he sees the future in the world of IT, and HOW internet should be regarding "security" and be "controlled" by special agencies...

Too bad it reminds me of a well known guy...
Legal threats? : Comment 64 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 06-Apr-2004 07:32 GMT
Aargh. Isn't there already enough lawsuits in this small community ? :P
Legal threats? : Comment 65 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 07:43 GMT
Time to leave /me thinks here.
Dammed... MOS and the Pegasos are still the better products at all. But Genesi is going way to far with such actions. This is low, even low for Genesi Managment.

so what is left for stay in the Amiga "Comunity"?
red vs. blue wars
bad managment from both companies,
developer throwing mud at each others...

Ah,no... There has been nothing left which could make me stay any longer.....
Legal threats? : Comment 66 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 07:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (miksuh):
>Aargh. Isn't there already enough lawsuits in this small community ? :P

Apparently the only compagny that is doing this is genesi. The others seems to be serious enough to make the problems cleared without having to go on court.
Legal threats? : Comment 67 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 07:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (Anonymous):
>Ah,no... There has been nothing left which could make me stay any longer.....

The only problem of this community is bbrv.
Legal threats? : Comment 68 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 06-Apr-2004 07:47 GMT
Ok, I'm going to be real nice here.

BBRV, we know you are watching. Withdraw the threat and the suit. This is self defeating. ANN is not exactly an anti Genesi hotbed.

All users of ANN, please use this thread RIGHT HERE, right now as a public petition ASKING Genesi, its associates and collegues to cease this activity.

Put your name below, and simply add 'I join the petition'

Thanks
AdmV
Legal threats? : Comment 69 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 07:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (AdmV):
Just do a little petition that we will fill.
No petition on threads, it's better.

And if possible, do a second petition for bbrv leaving genesi for ever, for the community to became cool again.
Legal threats? : Comment 70 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 07:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Anonymous):
Hey rich wood where are you?
Legal threats? : Comment 71 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 06-Apr-2004 07:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (Anonymous):
>Hey Rich Wood where are you?

Sleeping I bet, have you checked the world clock, it's the middle of the night here :D
Legal threats? : Comment 72 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 06-Apr-2004 08:00 GMT
I find the issue sad and disturbing.
Legal threats? : Comment 73 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Apr-2004 08:01 GMT
I can't write down what goes through me at this moment, it's as if BBRV just stabbed a dagger through the core of the community.

If ann.lu were to come into legal trouble, i hereby offer my full support to the ann.lu crew, be it financial or otherwise.

My apologies to the people at Genesi/bPlan, but if you guys stay with BBRV, i hope you lot go belly up.

Cheers
Legal threats? : Comment 74 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by j.t. on 06-Apr-2004 08:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Fabio Alemagna):
I think nobody could beat Micro$oft also in this!
Legal threats? : Comment 75 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Peg2 on 06-Apr-2004 08:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (j.t.):
Until now...
Legal threats? : Comment 76 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 08:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (Amon_Re):
a petition
a petition
a petition

Christian, if you haven't been paid for your work, he can't do anything against you.
Legal threats? : Comment 77 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Apr-2004 08:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (Anonymous):
I was actually thinking "community counter suit"
If we all chip in enough dough we should be able to take them down...

Cheers
Legal threats? : Comment 78 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by kalmar on 06-Apr-2004 08:19 GMT
Well if I thought BBRV was "unethical" before, this is the icing on the cake. I've never heard of anything so devious. I would be absolutely furious in CK's place.
Good luck mate, I hope it ends with you being paid, and BBRV losing big time.
Can you seek legal aid for the emplyment dispute on your side?
Legal threats? : Comment 79 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Framiga on 06-Apr-2004 08:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Fabio Alemagna):
Fabio A. wrote:
"Unfortunately for whoever is threatening Christan, there's another possibility:

3. Christian has not been fully employed, but still he's been asked to do some work for the supposed employer. This work, apparently has not been paid. Chirstian has a case here, both for the fact that he wasn't really employed (yes, it's illegal in EU), and for the fact that he's not been paid for work he's done."

i 100% agree Fabio,. . . as dozens of other "dummies" Genesi employers.
Legal threats? : Comment 80 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2004 08:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (AdmV):
> All users of ANN, please use this thread RIGHT HERE, right now as a public petition ASKING Genesi, its associates and collegues to cease this activity.

Hmm... once again, who said Genesi, and what activity are you referring to?
Legal threats? : Comment 81 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström AKA on 06-Apr-2004 08:24 GMT
I suspect it might be due to the case between Amiga Inc. and Thendic Electronic Components GmbH where alot of "evidence" used against Thendic's affiliate(?) Genesi originates from the ANN.lu forums. Just speculation, though...

I'm really interested to hear what BBRV has to say about this.
Legal threats? : Comment 82 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 06-Apr-2004 08:24 GMT
Petition supported
Legal threats? : Comment 83 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Apr-2004 08:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (kalmar):
I don't know how it is in Luxembourg, but in Belgium, if you're part of an union you can get them to help you sue your ex- employer.

As for him being sued, he's entitled to a "Pro deo" lawyer, or can get one of his choice.

Personally, right now, i feel like redesigning someone's face.

Cheers
Legal threats? : Comment 84 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Apr-2004 08:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Sammy Nordström AKA):
That coward won't be making any explications any time soon.
I never expected him to fall to this level of lowlife.

I pity the people whom are involved with the scumbag

Cheers
Legal threats? : Comment 85 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by kalmar on 06-Apr-2004 08:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Framiga):
That almost makes the Bolton Peck "working for free" thing look tame (BTW I agree, Amiga Inc's actions were underhand in several ways). But it sounds like a lot of MorphOS people have been in the same situation - working for nothing or for a free Pegasos for Genesi, and attacking Amiga Inc in their free time..
This guy has a real personality cult and it's sad how he's turned the situation so sour.
I think it's a good lesson, don't be so keen to pick sides in future, make you OWN decisions. Religion is for weak minded people, don't make Red or Blue your mantra!
Legal threats? : Comment 86 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Apr-2004 08:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (kalmar):
BBRV, a walking ego in a suit.

Cheers
Legal threats? : Comment 87 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Framiga on 06-Apr-2004 08:36 GMT
@ Kemp

at this point, i think it would be more correct and serious if you said, who is the involved Company/person.
I don't have moneies enough, for being able to face one denunciation ;-)
Legal threats? : Comment 88 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 06-Apr-2004 08:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Anonymous):
Any activity perhaps? :)
Legal threats? : Comment 89 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 06-Apr-2004 08:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Framiga):
It's bbrv, he's the past employer.
Legal threats? : Comment 90 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas Würgler/Pagan on 06-Apr-2004 08:41 GMT
I too would pitch in whatever I can to help out financially. This is just too much.
Legal threats? : Comment 91 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by -D- on 06-Apr-2004 08:42 GMT
BBRV, it seems to me ya'all are gunning down your own ship...
not exactly the "wise" choice..and possibly completely
ridiculous/retarded.
Legal threats? : Comment 92 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 06-Apr-2004 08:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Anonymous):
MOS liks are back...?

Where's morphzone link, for example? In the same place as AW link. ;-) ?
Legal threats? : Comment 93 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 06-Apr-2004 08:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (priest):
Oh! Shock! AW link IS back! Or am I hallusinating AGAIN?
Legal threats? : Comment 94 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 06-Apr-2004 08:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (Amon_Re):
"I can't write down what goes through me at this moment, it's as if BBRV just stabbed a dagger through the core of the community."

What puzzles me is why everyone seems so surprised and shocked.

BBRV have never made any attempt to hide their character or how they operate. The attacks on Christian (or on Jens) are no different from the attack on Amiga Inc. Nor are current events very different from those involving Viscorp.

They seem to be people with considerable ability and a compulsion to make as many enemies as possible. It is hard to see how this helps either the Amiga in general or the Pegasos in particular.
Legal threats? : Comment 95 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Framiga on 06-Apr-2004 08:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (kalmar):
oops . . sorry I wanted to say:

"i 100% agree Fabio,. . . as dozens of other "dummies" Genesi employee"

(like Kemp, Wayne and other that i've not the permission to spread) and for "dummies" i wish to say, a "not regular employee".
Legal threats? : Comment 96 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by kalmar on 06-Apr-2004 08:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Sammy Nordström AKA):
It's possible but I think DaveP's explanation is the likely one. If CK is threatened with a lawsuit based on breach of contract (even though it's clearly bogus), CK will either have to call his bluff, or "settle out of court" - i.e. shut down ANN and we're quits. A settlement like that would preclude him from pusuing Genesi on any other complaints.

Defending himelf will cost money, and there would be no reward apart from clearing his name against this dirty attack.

I hope that any influential people with integrity in that company will see the light prevent this from happening, and see through any twist which will surely be put on this from the instigator's side.

IANAL.
Legal threats? : Comment 97 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by kalmar on 06-Apr-2004 08:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Don Cox):
I think it's the personal touch that makes the difference. When two devious companies are fighting against each other you expect such tricks. But against a lone developer, who has done so much for the community, and apparently just for spite or to wriggle out of a contract.
I agree it should not be a revelation, but I hope it is a wakeup call for those who would defend Genesi. I hope your work is not wasted.. :(
Legal threats? : Comment 98 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by Skyraker on 06-Apr-2004 08:58 GMT
I told half of you what this nutcase was like years ago but you didn't listen.
Legal threats? : Comment 99 of 1057ANN.lu
Message removed by Teemu I. Yliselä for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: impersonation
Legal threats? : Comment 100 of 1057ANN.lu
Posted by rayt on 06-Apr-2004 09:15 GMT
yeah its so ridicolous that bill buck claims to understand the community.. does he really think to make any friends by attacking a community site? I think he has already given up and will leave genesi behind when its dead just like any other company he abused.. the real losers are the talented bplan engineers/programmers and the amiga community.. I hope bplan will get an os4 license when bbrv has left.. and maybe the os4 and morphos efforts can somehow be combined in the future.. although they have little in common..
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