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[News] AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes goldANN.lu
Posted on 16-Apr-2004 20:09 GMT by Mikey C283 comments
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Leuven, Belgium - April 16, 2004. Hyperion Entertainment and the Amiga OS 4.0 development team are extremely pleased and relieved to announce that after nearly 30 months of painstaking development the Amiga OS 4.0 Developer Pre-release has gone gold and will be sent to the duplication plant on Monday, April 19, 2004.

Full details on Amigaworld.net

AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 151 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by oGALAXYo on 17-Apr-2004 15:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 150 (Kjetil):
> GPL is not a signed contract

One email to the FSF will enlighten you and us. No need to speculate here. You all should shame to have a conversation on such a level.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 152 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 17-Apr-2004 15:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 150 (Kjetil):
Copying DVD’s, inn some country’s it’s illegal inn other country’s it’s legal
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 153 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Graham_nli on 17-Apr-2004 15:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Nate Downes):
You are a joke, and you know it. "gone gold" with respects to CD mastering is a well established term - it means the master CD has been made.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 154 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-Apr-2004 15:54 GMT
Does the SDK include a cross compiler and if so, for what cpu? (please say m68k and not Linux :)
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 155 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by XraalE on 17-Apr-2004 15:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 150 (Kjetil):
>Then again GPL is not the low, it's worth nothing.....

The GNU foundation have already sued companies that abused their guidelines. Would you like to see Hyperion destroyed by such a legal action and OS4 abandoned because of it?

OS4, as commercial OS, probably even shouldn't USE gcc. It certainly shouldn't be BUNDLED with it. Then that whole CD comes under the GPL.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 156 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 17-Apr-2004 16:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 155 (XraalE):
The GNU foundation have already sued companies that abused their guidelines. Would you like to see Hyperion destroyed by such a legal action and OS4 abandoned because of it?

Don’t think this where likely, as Hyperion is saying that they will distribute the source-code of gpl’ed products associated whit AmigaOS4.0

OS4, as commercial OS, probably even shouldn't USE gcc. It certainly shouldn't be BUNDLED with it. Then that whole CD comes under the GPL.

So BUNDLED on the same web page every thing on that web page becomes gpl’ed?
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 157 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by XraalE on 17-Apr-2004 16:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 156 (Kjetil):
> So BUNDLED on the same web page every thing on that web page becomes gpl'ed?

Sold any web pages lately, kjetil?
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 158 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by oGALAXYo on 17-Apr-2004 16:11 GMT
I think we should all calm down again and wait. The release day of OS4 is quite close and I do believe that Hyperion are brave people and release the code as well.

We should continue this conversation another time.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 159 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 17-Apr-2004 16:26 GMT
The GPL is an extremely wide license. Because of this, the enforcement
of the license becomes very difficult. The Free Software Foundation
(authors of the GPL) cannot run around checking that everyone who uses
GPL software follows the license. It's even more impossible for them
to find out if people are using GPL software without telling.

Now, a license which is not upheld is worth nothing. If it was
generally known that you can take GPL code and use it like you want,
without any fear of repercussion, then of course people would no
longer use and trust the GPL. For example, companies like ID Soft
would not release one of the world's best selling games under the GPL.

Thus, it's not "harassment" at all that Bernie wants to check that
Hyperion are ready to fulfil their obligations as stated in the GPL.
And Ben has absolutely no reason to be upset about it - rather, he
should be happy that this is all he has to put up with in order to
obtain a license for one of the world's best selling games.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 160 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Graham_nli on 17-Apr-2004 16:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 155 (XraalE):
> The GNU foundation have already sued companies that abused their guidelines.
> Would you like to see Hyperion destroyed by such a legal action and OS4
> abandoned because of it?

> OS4, as commercial OS, probably even shouldn't USE gcc. It certainly shouldn't
> be BUNDLED with it. Then that whole CD comes under the GPL.

Someone had better tell Apple then ...

This whole GPL discussion is stupid.

1) The binaries aren't in the hands of the end users yet
2) Hyperion can recreate at any point from CVS the relevant codebase, in this case surely the state tagged "DEVELOPER BETA" or something.
3) Hyperion have fully complied with the GPL in the past, there is nothing to indicate that they won't in the future
4) Hyperion have already got the GCC AmigaOS4 stuff into the main GCC tree. I'm sure that GDB will be in the relevant main tree once they've tidied it up.

The only reason this discussion is here is because some people who aren't enamoured with Hyperion (you know who you are) are trying to stir up trouble. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that "Hyperion break GPL" stories have already been submitted to Slashdot. A lot of people in this community need to grow up.

On the other hand, I don't understand why Hyperion don't simply set up a public FTP somewhere with the GPL source code available to download. That would be the simplest option in my opinion, and they wouldn't have to worry about burning CDs for people who ask.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 161 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 17-Apr-2004 16:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 150 (Kjetil):
Then again GPL is not the low, it’s worth nothing.....

Such an idiotic comment!

The GPL is what allows Hyperion to distribute gcc in the first place. Without the license they would be pirating it.

In my view Hyperion are walking a tightrope on the edge of GPL abuse. They use the GPL to get access to free code which they they bundle with commercial products, but they make it as awkward, as expensive and as complicated as possible for people to obtain the source code to material they release under the GPL.

I treat thair claim of "people aren't interested", "we need to clean up the code" and "we want to prioritise the release on the product" as complete BS.

Hyperion want to leech code from the GPL community and authors, but do not want anyone to "leech" any derivative code back. I will certainly never buy a Hyperion product again until they change their attitude with regard to the GPL. Either they make GPL code free AND easily accessible (which is many times cheaper, even for Hyperion, than burning version specific CDs on demand), or they stop using GPL code altogether and buy themselves a commercial license.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 162 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Panda on 17-Apr-2004 16:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 161 (Bill Hoggett):
Such an idiotic comment!

Is it idiotic as this one?

The meaning of "going Gold" has been changing recently thanks to the marketing hype types. Think about "developer pre-release going Gold" for a minute and you'll realise it's nothing but marketing double-speak.

I fear that no matter how good it might eventually turn out to be, AmigaOS 4 will become known as the "Mumbo-Jumbo" release.

Have you a mirror in your room?
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 163 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Interesting on 17-Apr-2004 16:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (Don Cox):
>>>"Sure, but if there was enough space on the CD (200MB doesn't seem like a full CD)"

That isn't how much is on the CD, it's what the SDK archive expends to. The point being that not everyone wants acres of source code on their hard drives.

I think H-J gave the real reason when he said some of the code is in a state of flux. Nobody wants to give out untidy source code. <<<<<

You know what Don? I can't understand how what looks like some good news, can create so much drama! This back and forth crap is just so sad to see.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 164 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Joe on 17-Apr-2004 16:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 161 (Bill Hoggett):
I have sent a email reporting Hyperion for GPL Theft. profiting from kind authors is low and shows you guys out to be theifs, also to think you was the same bitches what moaned when your software kept getting pirated.

You and Amiga Inc (rebadged as KMOS) are a perfect match.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 165 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by steve-o^ on 17-Apr-2004 17:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 164 (Joe):
If you're going to post comments on such matters, at least post it in good English.

If you send emails to people using language like that, you'll never be taken seriously.

Steve ;)
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 166 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 17-Apr-2004 17:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 155 (XraalE):
OS4, as commercial OS, probably even shouldn't USE gcc. It certainly shouldn't be BUNDLED with it. Then that whole CD comes under the GPL.
That's utter rubbish and you know it. It is perfectly legal and acceptable to have GPL and non-GPL items on the same CD, without everything automatically becoming GPLed.

It's that sort of comment that weakens the valid complaints about Hyperion's treatment of the GPL.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 167 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Andy Hall on 17-Apr-2004 17:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 161 (Bill Hoggett):

Hyperion want to leech code from the GPL community and authors, but do not want anyone to "leech" any derivative code back.


Is that why they have committed back to the GCC sources? (check with the GCC site if you don't believe this)


I will certainly never buy a Hyperion product again until they change their attitude with regard to the GPL.


Let's be honest here Bill, you never were going to buy any Hyperion products anyway.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 168 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Andy Hall on 17-Apr-2004 17:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 164 (Joe):

I have sent a email reporting Hyperion for GPL Theft. profiting from kind authors is low and shows you guys out to be theifs, also to think you was the same bitches what moaned when your software kept getting pirated.


I'd love to see an exact copy of that email you sent, I need a good laugh.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 169 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 17-Apr-2004 17:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 164 (Joe):
On what basis have you reported Hyperion for GPL theft?

I said they were walking a fine line bordering on GPL abuse, not that they had provenly violated it. (Which is not to say they have or they haven't. I have seen no absolute proof of GPL violation, that's all, unlike say H&P)

So, if you have such proof, I'd be interested in hearing about it.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 170 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Graham_nli on 17-Apr-2004 17:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 161 (Bill Hoggett):
> they make it as awkward, as expensive and as complicated as possible for people
> to obtain the source code to material they release under the GPL.

Prove this or shut up.

All you'd have to do is ask them. Sheesh. Since when is an e-mail "awkward, expensive or complicated".

Some trolls here ...
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 171 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 17-Apr-2004 17:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 151 (oGALAXYo):
> One email to the FSF will enlighten you and us.

Indeed... we're not even talking about a casual useless little program written by a casual bedroom programmer, we're talking about GCC, GNU and GNU lawyers. Good luck fighting them :-)
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 172 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Graham_nli on 17-Apr-2004 17:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 166 (Bill Hoggett):
What valid comments?

There are no valid comments in this thread about Hyperion misusing the GPL.

NONE.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 173 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Joe on 17-Apr-2004 17:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 165 (steve-o^):
Stop being prejudice. not everyone who posts here is from a English speaking country.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 174 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 17-Apr-2004 17:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 161 (Bill Hoggett):
> Hyperion want to leech code from the GPL community and authors, but do not want
> anyone to "leech" any derivative code back.

Bill, if I were you, I'd calm down. I believe Hyperion's motives are fairly truthful, for one simple reason: I've got right here, on my HDD, the patches for gcc 3.4, to make it produce AmigaOS4 programs. gcc's mainline will eventually include these patches in itself, so no need to ask Hyperion for the sources.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 175 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Graham_nli on 17-Apr-2004 17:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 171 (Fabio Alemagna):
Luckily Hyperion aren't breaking the GPL in any manner eh?

So the whole discussion is pointless and worthless beyond a simple theoretical exercise.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 176 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 17-Apr-2004 17:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (Fabio Alemagna):
> If the source code doesn't compile, then you're not exactly complying with the
> GPL, even if you give that source code to whoever has right to it: if it doesn't
> compile, it can't be the source code that lead to tbe binary the user is in
> possession of, as obviously the binary is compiled.

Now you're splitting hairs. It is exactly the source code that was used to compile the binary, but the OS header files have changed (as I pointed out, if you re-read my statement). As such, it would need to be adapted to the new headers.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 177 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Graham_nli on 17-Apr-2004 17:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 173 (Joe):
Regardless, where is your proof that Hyperion are breaking the GPL, stealing from kind hearted programmers, etc?

That's the sort of post that could get ANN in legal trouble as it is defamatory against Hyperion's character. Hyperion wouldn't stoop that low of course, but you have to think about these things before spouting off in such a manner online.

All you've done is waste some time of both the FSF and Hyperion's when they have to respond. Well done.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 178 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 17-Apr-2004 17:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 177 (Graham_nli):
> That's the sort of post that could get ANN in legal trouble as it is defamatory
> against Hyperion's character.

Wait, wait a minute... wheren't you one of the most vocal ones shouting against BBRV for menacing to cause legal troubles to ANN for the same (alledged) reasons you depict here...?

Eheh, how funny :-)
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 179 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 17-Apr-2004 17:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (Bernie Meyer):
> See, Hans-Joerg, *there* is an excellent reason to provide the sources on the
> same medium as the binaries.

Sigh. I thought I already made it clear that the OS HEADERS have changed, which caused the source code to not compile at all. This is those headers that are on the SDK CD.

> You *are* aware that, on request, you must now produce the *exact* sources that
> were used to build the binaries?

Yes.

> And the *exact* support files needed to do so? And that you must honour such
> requests for at least three years?

Yes. But that can only affect those files that I have the right to give out. You will probably not tell me that I have to extend that to copyrighted material that is part of the OS, do you?

> I appreciate and admire the work you guys at Hyperion have been doing;
> However, the way you have handled the GPL really rubs me the wrong way.

Sorry if I don't know the <beep> what you are talking about. IF you are in posession of a written offer for the source code, you can happily get it from me. I will most definitely bring it into a form that will compile again. BUT what can I do if the OS headers required have changed?

I am utterly p*ssed that as usual, everyone is barking about GPL again. We've been using GPL'ed code in the past and have ALWAYS complied to it. I don't think that you either have the GDB binary or are in a possession of a written offer for the source code, so why can you claim that we are handling the GPL the wrong way? For crying out loud, there is NOTHING handled AT ALL up to now, so either you can predict the frelling future, or you are making things up.

Take your pick.

I find your suggestion to be offensive to say the least.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 180 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Squishy on 17-Apr-2004 17:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 177 (Graham_nli):
Actually, he WANTS to waste Hyperion's time. Better yet, come up with a way for the Friedens to have to waste weeks going to court instead of working on that abomination called OS4.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 181 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Squishy on 17-Apr-2004 17:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 178 (Fabio Alemagna):
I believe that the intent here is to avoid getting ann.lu in trouble
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 182 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 17-Apr-2004 17:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 140 (Bernie Meyer):
> Anybody who wants to give out binaries compiled from "untidy source code" under
> the GPL *must* be willing to give out that code.

Did I say that I wouldn't be giving it out at all? No, I didn't. However, nothing in the GPL forces me to provide the source code with the binary, I only have to give it out on request. If someone requests it from me, I'll give it to him. However, since no one has it yet and no one requested the source code, it is my own freedom of choice to put it on any CD or not.

I chose to not put it there because of that.

Please point me to the place I did something wrong.

> Guess who plans to make that request 2 years and 11 months after the last
> confirmed shipment of a Hyperion Q2 CD.

click here

Good enough for you?
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 183 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 17-Apr-2004 17:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (Bernie Meyer):
> The only exception made is for code "that is normally distributed [...] with
> the major components [...] of the operating system on which the
> executable runs".

Thanks for pointing that out. Did I already mention that the change was in the OS headers? Oh yes, I think I did.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 184 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Graham_nli on 17-Apr-2004 17:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 178 (Fabio Alemagna):
I don't think I was! Anyway, bbrv's threat wasn't specific to a certain post. I did resist saying "unlike a certain other person in the amiga market" in my post though, as I didn't want to stir things up.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 185 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 17-Apr-2004 17:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 144 (Bernie Meyer):
> What exact steps would I have to go through to be able to recompile that
> version of gcc 3.4 myself, and get the exact same executable shipped to me

Write a mail?
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 186 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 17-Apr-2004 17:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 163 (Interesting):
"You know what Don? I can't understand how what looks like some good news, can create so much drama! This back and forth crap is just so sad to see."

Precisely my thoughts
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 187 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Squishy on 17-Apr-2004 17:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 182 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
ROFL. Death by linkage.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 188 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Mostafa on 17-Apr-2004 17:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 185 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
Some really sad people here it seems,

Rather than asking for the source code by mail, people just bitch about how Hyperion "arnt going to" make it available (as if they really believe that is/will be the "TRUTH")
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 189 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 17-Apr-2004 17:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 154 (Anonymous):
> Does the SDK include a cross compiler and if so, for what cpu? (please say
> m68k and not Linux :)

The cross compilers will not be strictly part of the SDK, but also distributed on the CD. "Not part of the SDK" in this case means there will be no installer, and not as much support as for the native compilers. Currently, these cross compilers include:

AmigaOS 3.x/m68k
Linux/x86
Linux/PPC
Windows/x86
Darwin/PPC

(and I think someone even did a SPARC compile).
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 190 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 17-Apr-2004 17:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 176 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
> Now you're splitting hairs.

I already said I misunderstood your post, I thought that some gdb's headers had changed, and that you had no way to roll them back.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 191 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Squishy on 17-Apr-2004 17:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 189 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
> Windows/x86

Nice! thanks. Some of us aren't that fond of Linux :)

Is that a Cygwin or MinGW port? (ie do I need install the cygwin environment first? I'm sure mine's out of date...)
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 192 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 17-Apr-2004 18:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 163 (Interesting):
"You know what Don? I can't understand how what looks like some good news, can create so much drama! This back and forth crap is just so sad to see."

Some people think that anything that is good for AmigaOS and AmigaOne must be bad for MorphOS and Pegasos.

I think they are completely wrong. The problems facing these products are:
1. Non-standard hardware with no obvious benefits
2. Not much software available
3. Shortage of hardware drivers
4. Shortage of filters/players for various data formats

1 is helped by there being more than one such product. If there were 20 PPC based boards on the market, it would be even better, as this would then become a recognised product category instead of a freak.

2 is helped by increasing the number of related platforms. It seems almost certain to me that the total sales of AmigaOne plus Pegasos is greater than either could achieve separately. That increases the market for application coders.

3. The same can apply to coders working on drivers; for example, it could be worth while to code a set of scanner drivers for both platforms where sales for one only would not justify the effort.

4. The same again applies to for example a Flash player, or a Word or PDF import filter for Pagestream.

The enemy is _not_ the other Amiga-like platform. It is the Mac, and the various versions of Windows.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 193 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas Frieden on 17-Apr-2004 18:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 161 (Bill Hoggett):
> In my view Hyperion are walking a tightrope on the edge of GPL abuse

Nonsense. We did use GPL'd source code before and did fully comply with it. How dare you accuse us of not complying with it ? Would you please start condemming us *AFTER* we did something wrong, not in advance ? Thanks, very kind of you.

Honestly, the display of ignorance on this thread is really ridiculous. It's the typical "P*ssing on positive news" type of Bullsh*t I never get used to.

Sorry, get over it. What some peole are doing here is just plainly idiotic.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 194 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 17-Apr-2004 18:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 161 (Bill Hoggett):
> In my view Hyperion are walking a tightrope on the edge of GPL abuse. They use
> the GPL to get access to free code which they they bundle with commercial
> products, but they make it as awkward, as expensive and as complicated as
> possible for people to obtain the source code to material they release
> under the GPL.

Sorry, but you are talking bullocks. IIRC, someone raised this "issue" with the FSF in the Quake 2 case and presented here on ANN a reply by the FSF that backed up our position.

> I treat thair claim of "people aren't interested", "we need to clean up the
> code" and "we want to prioritise the release on the product" as complete BS.

Can't you post a comment without insults?

a) Most people aren't interested. Would you deny this? Most just want to use the compiler and debugger.
b) The code does not compile because system headers changed. To distribute the code I would like to bring it in compilable form, because it would otherwise be useless.
c) Wheren't you one that said such things like "going gold does mean nothing"? It certainly doesn't mean that the CD is being distributed, and that means that I don't have to provide the source code now.

Finally, we are not abusing the GPL. We will be in full compliance. Our reasons for going this way or that way is ours to decide.

> Hyperion want to leech code from the GPL community and authors, but do not
> want anyone to "leech" any derivative code back

See above for the link to the Quake 2 source code. See www.sf.net for our modifications to U-Boot. See www.sf.net for our modifications to the Linux kernel. I find your comment to be extremely stupid and offensive.

> I will certainly never buy a Hyperion product again until they change their
> attitude with regard to the GPL

What attitude towards the GPL are you talking about? Name me one single case where we are not in compliance with the GPL.

> Either they make GPL code free AND easily accessible (which is many times
> cheaper, even for Hyperion, than burning version specific CDs on demand), or
> they stop using GPL code altogether and buy themselves a commercial license.

There is absolutely NOTHING in the GPL that speaks about "easily accessible". We DO make the source code available on request. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with this. For starters, if you re-read my postings, I have stated that the gcc 3.4.0 changes will go back into the baseline source code of GCC. How does that fit into your twisted picture?

Or is that not free enough for you?
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 195 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Squishy on 17-Apr-2004 18:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 192 (Don Cox):
Amen to that. The infighting is stupid, and has to stop if we ever want the amiga to grow.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 196 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 17-Apr-2004 18:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 174 (Fabio Alemagna):
> Bill, if I were you, I'd calm down. I believe Hyperion's motives are fairly
> truthful, for one simple reason: I've got right here, on my HDD, the patches for
> gcc 3.4, to make it produce AmigaOS4 programs. gcc's mainline will eventually
> include these patches in itself, so no need to ask Hyperion for the sources.

Sigh. Didn't I say that a few hundred comments up?
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 197 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 17-Apr-2004 18:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 190 (Fabio Alemagna):
> I already said I misunderstood your post, I thought that some gdb's headers had
> changed, and that you had no way to roll them back.

Yes, sorry. I only saw your other posting later...
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 198 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 17-Apr-2004 18:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 191 (Squishy):
> Is that a Cygwin or MinGW port? (ie do I need install the cygwin environment
> first? I'm sure mine's out of date...)

Yes, it's cygwin.
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 199 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Squishy on 17-Apr-2004 18:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 198 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
Cool, thanks.

One more question: will it be possible to rig things so that I can debug programs remotely, so that I'm running GDB on my PC and the program getting debugged on my AmigaOne? (the two machines would be connected by ethernet)
AmigaOS 4.0 Developer Pre-release goes gold : Comment 200 of 283ANN.lu
Posted by Andy Hall on 17-Apr-2004 18:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 192 (Don Cox):

Some people think that anything that is good for AmigaOS and AmigaOne must be bad for MorphOS and Pegasos.


I'm convinced it's an ego/pride thing, some people seem take success of 'the other side' as a personal insult. Perhaps if people weren't so eager to make bold statements and try to score points from every discussion/debate for 'thier side', there wouldn't be so much bad feeling.

But then again I'm still amazed how a subject as mundane as computer platform choice can cause so much bitterness and hatred.
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