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[Web] AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support!ANN.lu
Posted on 10-May-2004 10:53 GMT by choochy277 comments
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Today, AmigaShare announces that it has included additional platform support that relates to uploaded software. That is, the Software Library now allows software items to show additional emulation compatibility. These include the following platforms:

* MorphOS v1.4
* AROS
* UAE and E-UAE
* WinUAE
* MacUAE

"It is important that people understand that we are first and foremost an Amiga site; our focus is AmigaOS. We want to encourage everyone to help grow the community to its full potential. That is, we are mindful that Amiga software does run, in emulated mode, on other hosts, so we have allowed for this.", said Chris Nillissen of AmigaShare.

"We also see this may be a perfect opportunity to expose users that are emulating Amiga Software, like UAE users, that aren’t up to date with the latest progress relating to the Amiga Platform!"

Visit www.amigashare.com
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 151 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 11-May-2004 13:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (Amon_Re):
I admire your tolerance and political correctness. However, I didn't mean to "preach", it's just that I get fed up with the ignorance of certain people sometimes and can't help myself from speaking my mind.

BTW, my post was not actually aimed at you in specific, even though I replied to your post. I was merely elaborating on the issue of availability in your post rather than trying to counter argue it.

Anyway, for the sake of not staying on a sinking ship, I hereby withdraw from this thread.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 152 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 11-May-2004 13:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 126 (Amon_Re):
> Ixemul.lib should work, i have no idea why it wouldn't work, it's just a
> library

ixemul.library playes tricks with the scheduler, among other "nasty" things, which might be what makes it not work on AOS4 - given it doesn't work, which I have no knowledge about.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 153 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-May-2004 13:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 151 (Sammy Nordström):
well the point is, that it is you who is totaly ignorant!
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 154 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 11-May-2004 13:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Sammy Nordström):
> WINE is of course not an OS, but it's still a good comparison with the A/Box > of MorphOS,

Thus, given WINE stands for "WINE Is Not an Emulator", MOS is, comparably, not an emulator either. Now, just like people are wrong in claiming Wine is an emulator - because they are wrong - so are people claiming the same about MOS, no matter what opinion you, they or everyone else has.

There you go.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 155 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 11-May-2004 13:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 152 (Fabio Alemagna):
Didn't know that, guess we'll find out soon tho, when the prereleases reach the end users

Cheers
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 156 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 11-May-2004 13:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 154 (Fabio Alemagna):
The reason why some people confuse MOS or WINE for an emulator is probably because it serves a simular perpose (namely to run Applications targetted at another OS)

I don't think people are intentionally calling it an emulator just to "insult" it, although some people do just that.

Cheers
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 157 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 11-May-2004 14:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (Agima):
God forbid the MOS developers reverse engineer* the AmigaOS4 hacks and build in OS4 compatability to the ABox API? Is it possible, who knows? (a rhetorical question because I know certain programmers have followed the OS4 API and kernel discussion - whether for personal technical interest or force of Amiga habit (we're all junkies) I don't know :D

*actually it wouldn't be necessary ro reverse engineer because it's pretty well documented from the discussions I've seen.

/ME runs and hides in a very big hole

Steve

PS Great move by the AmigaShare guys...very commendable! Good luck :-)
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 158 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 11-May-2004 14:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 141 (Sammy Nordström):
"Ready or not, who cares? I mean, if we would care about availability we would've abandoned the Amiga platform many years ago. It's all about beeing a specific computer platform hobbyist and supporter, if you ask me. "

Are you saying that you prefer to support a platform that is not available? I suppose it is a test of determination, or something.

When AOS4 becomes available, will you be transferring your support elsewhere?
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 159 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 11-May-2004 14:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 158 (Don Cox):
Sorry about breaking my promise to leave this thread, I'd just like to make this reply to Don:

I said "ready or not", as in the availability is irrelevant. Amazingly enough, this means that my prefered choice of OS and hardware remains the same even if it is available! :-o
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 160 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 11-May-2004 15:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 137 (Choochy):
> Sorry I didnt mean to say that MorphOS is a VM, I just meant that MorphOS
> acts as a VM for Amiga Legacy Application, the Amiga API implementation that
> is.

I am sorry, but I still don't agree with you. There is nothing "Virtual" about the way the Amiga API is implemented in MorphOS, it's there by pure, native OS code (fresh, lean, clean and mean) and nothing else. Period! Exactly the same way as it is done in AmigaOS3.1, OS4, AROS, etc, and *not* through Emulation, and *not* through a "Virtual Machine". Those terms deals with Hardware anyway, and if that is what you are interested in, then UAE is a great Amiga emulator that exists for any of the above platforms, including OS4. No difference here. See?

I really can't understand what's so hard to understand about this? Perhaps you are mentally blocked by the "A-box" concept? If *that* is what you are talking about, then you don't know what A-box is. It is *not* an "Amiga Emulator", it is only a design decision that the MorphOS developers made to make it possible to gradually implement a future way of memory protection, in a *clean* manner, without braking the Amiga compatibility. You see? There is no other way of doing it! The A-box is *not* an emulator, the OS code behind the Amiga API is still *exactly as native* as in any other "distribution" of AmigaOS (with or without official branding, I am not talking about Amiga(tm) here).

BTW, you will see the same thing (a "box") in future OS4 versions too. Even the Friedens have acknowledged that. There simply is no other way of connecting the "past" with the "future", without braking the "Amiga".

Both OS4 and MorphOS are real Operating Systems to *exactly the same degree*, and they both implements the AmigaOS3.1 API through pure, native PPC code (at least MorphOS does, I don't know at which state OS4 currently is in its "68k morphing" process) and adds their own respective future paths on top of that. The biggest (and perhaps most significant) difference between MorphOS and Hyperion's OS4 (except some "under the hood" design decisions) is that OS4 is branded "Amiga" and that the "OS4 future path" is branded "Amiga future path". That's all! *None of them* are Emulators or "Virtual Machines".

Basta!

;-)
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 161 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 11-May-2004 15:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 145 (Amon_Re):
> what good will come out of this thread?

Well, there seems to be some fundamental misunderstandings about MorphOS floating around, despite the fact that it has been out in the public for a year and a half and information about it was floating around much earlier than that. Hopefully, some of those fundamental misunderstanding will be ironed out. Nothing bad in that IMHO.

> the sole perpose of this thread sofar has been to intice yet another
> flamefest

As the person who made the first comment in this thread (which then spawned most of these discussions), I take great offence by those words. Seriously. My purpose was *not* to start a flame fest, it simply was to clear up some misunderstandings. And before accusing other people of bad intentions, please look at your own contributions to this (and other) thread(s). You are, if not a flame thrower, then at least "spark spreader" that with an endless energy plants bate everywhere and refuses to listen to reasonable arguments, but instead goes on in an endless loop of sparking. Nice!

:-(
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 162 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 11-May-2004 16:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 148 (itix):
> (AFAIK, there is no "Q/Box", there is just Quark kernel and A/Box task.)

;-)

And as far as I understand, from a "semantic POW" it may not be entirely correct to say "Q" and "box" in the same sentence, since in the microkernel controlled memory space, every single application and driver lives in it's own carefully guarded and protected area (box). Perhaps one should say "Q-space" (or "Qniverse" ;-)), the great place where all the "Q-boxes" (plural) exists?

Or? :-)
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 163 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 11-May-2004 16:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 160 (takemehomegrandma):
You cannot convince pure ignorant like Sammy Nordström.
He cannot understand in hs brain how can Aos4 EMULATE aos3 (actually MANY TIME WORSE than Morphos).
Ignorance cannot be cured
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 164 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 11-May-2004 16:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 163 (Eva):
>> "...in hs brain how can Aos4 EMULATE..."

Yep, "Ignorance cannot be cured" :-)
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 165 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Jonny Johansson on 11-May-2004 17:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 163 (Eva):
> Ignorance cannot be cured

Actually, ignorance would be pretty much the one thing you always
can</> cure, although when opinions are involved, I guess it requires a
willingness to wisen up, no matter whether we are talking about, say the
blood-blinded boxer in the red corner or the likewise impaired one in the blue.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 166 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 11-May-2004 17:26 GMT
Just need add a comment on the MacOS9 and MacOSX comparing whit MorphOS,AmigaOS40,

Some where comparing MacOSX whit MorphOS and MacOS9 whit AmigaOS40,

I can agree whit you that MacOSX and MorphOS has similarity as they have not used the original kernel as foundation for the (operating system/classic box),

I can agree whit that AmigaOS40 and MacOS90 is using modified or enchanted version of classic kernel, it's not quite the same, AmigaOS40 is half way to be able to use SMP (Tow CPU's inn one computer), this is some thing MacOS9 can not do, so to make MacOS inn to an server operating system, it need to throw out MacOS kernel as the foundation, inn MacOSX, so the difference is that AmigaOS4.x do not need to throw out ExecSG to become what MacOSX is to day.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 167 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 11-May-2004 17:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 150 (Agima):
Look who's talking! I could say the same thing about you.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 168 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by JOËL EHRET on 11-May-2004 18:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 166 (Kjetil):
WRONG... macOS 9 was installed on dual G4 powermacs.. and even if SMP
was very badly managed, it worked... so macOS9 was SMP in the same way
OS4 will be IMHO
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 169 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 11-May-2004 18:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 168 (JOËL EHRET):
Way do you say AmigaOS4.0 will have badly managed SMP support?
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 170 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 11-May-2004 18:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 167 (Darth_X):
>>Look who's talking! I could say the same thing about you.

What? What does the reputation of MorphOS or the Peg have to do with me?


I'm sure there are lots and lots of people out there that won't touch either because of Bill Bucks antics.



"Bill Buck is a 'Meconium Stain' on the reputation of MorphOS and the Pegasos."
--Agima © 2004
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 171 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 11-May-2004 19:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 160 (takemehomegrandma):
Well written, tought off reply, my hat of to you TMHGM.

Cheers
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 172 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 11-May-2004 19:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 161 (takemehomegrandma):
My comment in that post wasn't aimed at you, i know you didn't intend things to go the way they went in this thread, if you tought i was aiming at you, my humble apologies.

But just reread this thread, and you'll see that the inticement followed shortly after your post, and the thread degraded rapidly, and yes, some blame goes to me there aswell, i am fully aware of that.

Actually, the blame on it lies mostly with Sammy (no offence meant Sammy, but it's your comment that did ignite this bomb), but that's not important, we all should be willing to drop things instead of getting stuck in a loop.

Some of my posts, are, like you said, sparks that could ignite too, but i do try & limit that effect as much as possible, wich, admittidly, isn't always easy.

I just watched a nice movie, must say that was more entertaining then argueing about the same things over & over again.

Hopefully, the point i'm trying to make comes over as i intend it, and we can close this arguement.

Cheers
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 173 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 11-May-2004 19:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (takemehomegrandma):
Speaking of drivers, i take it that all drivers reside in userspace with MOS?
Never really given it any tought before.

Cheers²
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 174 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 11-May-2004 19:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 169 (Kjetil):
Descent SMP can't work with current AOS-structures, so yes it will either be badly implemented or the have to break lots of old stuff.

AOS would (could) only be suitable as a server-OS after they either threw out ALL legacy-support, or put it in a place away from the real kernel (no matter wether it is called "ExecTG", or "granny's teapot").
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 175 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 11-May-2004 19:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 163 (Eva):
Nor MOS nor AOS4 emulate AOS3, they do, however, emulate the 68k.

Cheers
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 176 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 11-May-2004 19:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 174 (Kronos):
What about symmetric multiprocessor support?
Not an issue at all. Because of task-based emulation form each task has its own translation stage. As long as the kernel and the scheduler solve the sharing of free processor time for each task or thread, Petunia will gain full speed from symmetric multiprocessor environment. (A full machine emulation and some times a virtual machine cannot gain speed from symmetric multiprocessors, so task-based emulation is a better approach this time too. See above: emulation working.)

source: http://amigos.amiga.hu/rachy/petunia.html
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 177 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 11-May-2004 19:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 166 (Kjetil):
Wrong, MacOS9 was able to do SMP, however, only in a limited form.
Also, AOS4 has a new exec, that has all the functionality of the original exec, but extends on that with it's own, modern features, wich will eventually evolve.

MacOSX however, uses the Mach kernel and a BSD substructure (Darwin) with a custom/extended GUI, and a sandbox for classic apps.

Cheers
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 178 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 11-May-2004 19:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 169 (Kjetil):
AOS4 won't do SMP, even tough exec is written with that in mind, there's alot more to SMP then just the kernel.
MOS won't do SMP neighter (in it's current state) even tough the Quark kernel is capable of it

Cheers
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 179 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 11-May-2004 19:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 170 (Agima):
Can we atleast try to leave Bill Buck out of technical issue's? Please?
The less i hear that name the better

Cheers
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 180 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 11-May-2004 19:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 179 (Amon_Re):
:-)
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 181 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 11-May-2004 19:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 176 (Kjetil):
Kronos is right, SMP will not just magicly work with AOS4, even tough ExecSG is written with SMP in mind, there's more work to be done before SMP will be possible for both MOS & AOS.

Cheers
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 182 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 11-May-2004 19:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 179 (Amon_Re):
Sorry ;-)

Just wanted to use 'Meconium Stain' in a sentence and I couldn't think of a better name to put with it...
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 183 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 11-May-2004 20:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 182 (Agima):
Medhi Ali?
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 184 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 11-May-2004 20:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 178 (Amon_Re):
A/Box is one task running on quark
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 185 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 11-May-2004 20:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 183 (Amon_Re):
http://amiga.emugaming.com/commphoto.html
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 186 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 11-May-2004 20:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 181 (Amon_Re):
Planned and already partially implemented functionality:

* Symmetric Multi-Processing (SMP): support for multiple CPU's.

* Multithreading: Tasks can consist of multiple threads of execution which are scheduled individually on a higher frequency.

* Isolated address spaces: This feature will give each task its own address space so that it appears to be the only running task. Communication will still work without copy through shared memory areas. This feature is already available in the current ExecSG but not enabled yet due to incompatibilities with OS3.x. It is also only really useful with multithreading.

* Pluggable schedulers

source: http://os.amiga.com/os4/OS4FeatureSet.php?p=3
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 187 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 11-May-2004 20:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 184 (Kjetil):
Correct, don't know if the A/Box is multithreaded tho, but still, AOS4 doesn't support SMP yet, there are quite afew things that need changing if SMP is ever going to work, and those changes are planned for a later time.

I will repeat it one last time, there's more to SMP then just the kernel.

Cheers
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 188 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-May-2004 20:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 170 (Agima):
Well, and OS 4 has Developer Trolls like Steffen Haeuser or BAF`s like you, so it is also the same here...
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 189 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 11-May-2004 20:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 186 (Kjetil):
I know the feature list, i've got it on my computer for easy reference, but to further enforce my statement, i'll just quote this sentence:

Planned and already partially implemented functionality:

SMP is planned, ExecSG is written in a way to allow it to be implemented later on, but at this time of writing, that hasn't happened yet, also note the thingy about breaking AOS3.x compability? It's there for a reason you know...

Cheers
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 190 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 11-May-2004 20:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 188 (Anonymous):
Ah, how nice, a dig at one of the AOS coders, hell, even i don't stoop that low...
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 191 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 11-May-2004 20:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 189 (Amon_Re):
Isolated address spaces!!!!
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 192 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 11-May-2004 20:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 189 (Amon_Re):
Read comment 176 again....
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 193 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 11-May-2004 21:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 191 (Kjetil):
Do you realize that this will ONLY work the same way as MOS?
Either by ditching compatability or running the already available software in
a totally shared environment?
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 194 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-May-2004 21:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 190 (Amon_Re):
Well, as he is one of the biggest mid throwers toward the MOS Project, I don`t see why this should be low..
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 195 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Choochy on 11-May-2004 22:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 160 (takemehomegrandma):
@takemehoomegrandma comment:
"I am sorry, but I still don't agree with you. There is nothing "Virtual" about the way the Amiga API is implemented in MorphOS, it's there by pure, native OS code (fresh, lean, clean and mean) and nothing else. Period! Exactly the same way as it is done in AmigaOS3.1, OS4, AROS, etc, and *not* through Emulation, and *not* through a "Virtual Machine". Those terms deals with Hardware anyway, and if that is what you are interested in, then UAE is a great Amiga emulator that exists for any of the above platforms, including OS4. No difference here. See?"

OK I understand that point! I think what i am trying to get at is, if you were to write my announcement, how would you have written it? This was the best way i could word it. How could I have worded it correctly what do i call this type of execution if its not "Emulated or VM'd".

Secondly I dont understand how 68k code can run on PPC with some form of emulated execution. JIT is a form of emulation.

"Dynamic recompilation (or also called just-in-time compilation or simply JIT compilation) is a technique of translation of the emulated processor machine code to an executer processor machine code on-the-fly."

Thanks
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 196 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 11-May-2004 23:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 170 (Agima):
I'm sure there are lots and lots of people out there that won't touch either because of Bill Bucks antics.

There are some for sure -- we know because they never miss an opportunity to talk about it -- but I'd guess there are a lot more people who would never even have heard about MorphOS and Pegasos, and certainly wouldn't have experienced them, if it weren't for Bill Buck and the (personal) resources he's put into these projects.

"Bill Buck is a 'Meconium Stain' on the reputation of MorphOS and the Pegasos."
--Agima © 2004

Not to defend everything he's ever said and done, but I don't think there's any question that if it weren't for him, the "Amiga market" would be much closer to the sleepy little backwater with not much going on that it seemed destined to be. Sure he's caused some friction, but also think about how much momentum has been given, and probably even to his competitors. It is possible that bplan would have continued with their projects anyway, but how far along do you think they'd be without the intense pushing that bbrv have contributed? Shows and forums in North America and Europe? Contacts with IBM and Motorola/Freescale? Boards given to many developers to seed projects? It's possible, but seems unlikely to me. Are you really seeing the bigger picture here? Anyway, I rank controversial people who actually do things higher than people whose only contribution seems to be blind advocacy and personal insults -- just my opinion.

-- gary_c
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 197 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 11-May-2004 23:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 196 (gary_c):
Oops. Missed a closing and opening italics tag. The second paragraph in that post is words, not a quote.

-- gary_c
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 198 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 11-May-2004 23:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 197 (gary_c):
Duh. The second paragraph is *my* words, not a quote.

-- gary_c
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 199 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 12-May-2004 01:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 191 (Kjetil):
..... will break 99.99% of all current AOS-SW (and those written for OS4.00000 too).
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 200 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 12-May-2004 03:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 192 (Kjetil):
Don't believe me? Fine, i'm not going to keep repeating myself, we'll see when AOS4 is released.
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