23-Apr-2024 16:28 GMT.		 UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Anonymous, there are 277 items in your selection (but only 27 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 150] [151 - 200] [201 - 250] [251 - 277]
[Web] AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support!ANN.lu
Posted on 10-May-2004 10:53 GMT by choochy277 comments
View flat
View list
Today, AmigaShare announces that it has included additional platform support that relates to uploaded software. That is, the Software Library now allows software items to show additional emulation compatibility. These include the following platforms:

* MorphOS v1.4
* AROS
* UAE and E-UAE
* WinUAE
* MacUAE

"It is important that people understand that we are first and foremost an Amiga site; our focus is AmigaOS. We want to encourage everyone to help grow the community to its full potential. That is, we are mindful that Amiga software does run, in emulated mode, on other hosts, so we have allowed for this.", said Chris Nillissen of AmigaShare.

"We also see this may be a perfect opportunity to expose users that are emulating Amiga Software, like UAE users, that aren’t up to date with the latest progress relating to the Amiga Platform!"

Visit www.amigashare.com
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 251 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 12-May-2004 15:06 GMT
I Just remembered and old trick used inn AmigaOS3.x, it's called enable/disable,
turn off multitasking when you need to do hacks on exec, turn on multitasking when you are finished,

1. the same can be done whit the old 68k API, anyway it need to translate 68k registers to stack based arguments,
this can be done on all critical api functions, the problems apeares when programs do not use library functions, and do things on there own, so it can't work on all 68k tasks, it might work on 20 to 80% of the system friendly programs, the problem is that you lose some speed, on some of the library functions.

2. the other way is to duplicate all data sent to the old API, then send the duplicated data to the kernel, copy back the changed data to address pointed to by the task, this is extremely slow, and will probely break equally many programs,

3. last and most efficient way is to keep all 68k task running inn none isolated memory space while, the ppc programs runs inn isolated memory space, this will not break 68k task, how ever ppc task might run inn to trouble when they try to communicate whit 68k tasks,

4. Option combining 2 and 3, keep 68k tasks inn none isolated address space, duplicate some of the arguments, keep PPC programs inn isolated memory space, this is complicated and requires the OS to keep track of duplicated memory, and refresh system probely,

5. keep 68k tasks inn none isolated address space, disable any IPC communication between 68k tasks and native PPC tasks.

If the user can set different mode like an option between 5, 3, 1 and none isolated, then that be a good thing.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 252 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 12-May-2004 15:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 248 (Don Cox):
"Don't see OS4 as a better way to run your old programs. See it as a way forward."

Problem is, I have plenty of programs. I just want to run them on faster hardware with more memory. AOS4 might be a way to do this.

Particularly ImageMaster. It doesn't work on Amithlon, and I haven't managed to get UAE/AF to see an Amithlon partition yet.

Only if you are prepared to move some of this classic programs inn to UAE, some might work inn AmigaOS and not UAE, however i think that will be where unlikely, as UAE offerce more emulation then AmigaOS40 will, and the path forword for AmigaOS40 is to get this old 68k programs recompiled for AmigaOS40 to take advantage of new features,

It might happen that some one recompiles ImageMaster for AmigaOS40, just like they did whit protracker.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 253 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 12-May-2004 16:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 251 (Kjetil):
5. keep 68k tasks inn none isolated address space, disable any IPC communication between 68k tasks and native PPC tasks.
--

And how exactly do you expect this to work? No single program will work that way, except maybe RC5 style stuff :-)
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 254 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 12-May-2004 17:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 249 (Anonymous):
> They all re-invent an obsolete OS

IMHO, its not an obsolete OS at all. Rather the opposite, it is the ideal OS for some specific areas of use, such as in STB's, info kiosks and such.

Besides from that I agree with much of what you say in your post (regarding the OS4 way of "gradually" (not really, actually) merging to a "modern" OS). There is no such thing as "gradually" in the OS4 way, it's crash-boom-bang. The only way to come close to a "gradually morph" would be through the MorphOS way. It will take time and it will take some effort, but in the end you will have the best from both the legacy world and new, "modern" world. At the same time!
:-)

> My personal hope is that OS4 and MorphOS allow these companies to make
> enough money to stay alive long enough to make a real OS.

I don't really know what you mean by "real OS". Adding some modern OS features is one thing, but there is no need to re-invent the wheel again IMHO. You've got to take it for what it is. There are enough of "real" OS's today; we have the secure and stable OS's like Linux/BSD for servers, and we have bulky and bloated but "complete" and "all inclusive" OS's like Windows/MacOS for desktops. The AmigaOS/MorphOS has it's own unique qualities, and IMO it is important to identify those and preserve them and of course enhance them wherever possible, not turning the OS into something else. The day MorphOS becomes another Windows, then I am out of here. I already have one windows, and windows has no "Amiga Soul" ...
;-)
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 255 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-May-2004 17:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 254 (takemehomegrandma):
> The only way to come close to a "gradually morph" would be through the MorphOS way

There is no MorphOS way. The only way to a modern OS is through total encapsulation of the old AmigaOS/MorphOS. Is is simply not possible to gradually improve AmigaOS/MorphOS (substantially). The best you can do is move some drivers out of harm's way into a safer environment. That is cometics, just like the poor man's memory protection in OS4. Unfortunately, it's also not possible to build a new OS step by step and run the old OS in seamless integration, windows of old applications next to windows of new applictaions. While that was possible with other operating systems, the AmigaOS design doesn't lend itself to that approach because it doesn't have much abstraction in its user interface code. The only way to a substantially improved OS is a totally new OS that runs old stuff in an emulator, under the old OS, on top of the new OS. So what are MorphOS and OS4 and AROS in the bigger long-term picture? Probably just a complication, two more versions of (basically) the same old AmigaOS operating system, with all its design flaws.

> I don't really know what you mean by "real OS"

An open, flexible OS with a reasonable amount of abstraction.

- memory protection
- separate address spaces
- resource tracking
- access to OS internals only through functions/methods/tags, not through structures and lists and pointers
- unicode
- permissions (applications running on admin level etc)
- no redundancy, e.g. one gadget toolkit, not five
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 256 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 12-May-2004 17:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 254 (takemehomegrandma):
Both ways should be possible (both AOS & MOS), but the paths ahead are different, for some, the AOS way will be preferable, for others, the MOS way of things.

We can only hope both eventually manage to fullfill their long term goals.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 257 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 12-May-2004 18:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 234 (Amon_Re):
"Hooks into"?

It doesnt "hook into" more than what AmigaXL "hooks into" QNX and vice versa,
and you boot a fully OS9 installation inside the "Classic" box.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 258 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 12-May-2004 18:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 255 (Anonymous):
Ehm, as I posted earlier, in MorphOS, the A/BOX *IS* encapsulated.
The system is already ready for an OSX style implementation, by
keeping the A/Box for compatability and use the Q/Box for new apps.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 259 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 12-May-2004 18:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 248 (Don Cox):
Don,

Could. get ImageFX. It's a better program in probably every respect. Has been, for a long time now.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 260 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 12-May-2004 19:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 255 (Anonymous):
Cheers!

Exactly what I have been saying for the last 5 years :)
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 261 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 12-May-2004 19:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 257 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
Actually, try using the control panels in classic mode & in native OS9, the same system folder, however, in classic mode some won't work, while (still the same files) they do work when you boot straight into OS9.

There are more subtle things too, this is what i meant, "hooks into" however, might be poorly chosen words.

Cheers
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 262 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-May-2004 20:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 259 (greenboy):
Welcome back to ann! :)
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 263 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-May-2004 20:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 255 (Anonymous):
http://www.morphos.net

:-)
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 264 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 13-May-2004 04:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 259 (greenboy):
"Could. get ImageFX. It's a better program in probably every respect. Has been, for a long time now."

I have ImageFX. I find Imagemaster more useful (when I have a computer I can use it on.)
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 265 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 13-May-2004 10:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 248 (Don Cox):
If it doesn't work on Amithlon, why do you expect it to work on OS4 (unless you're going to run that on a CSPPC?)

Also, had you read it all once more you might have noticed that if loosing compatibility with old programs is that important, you wouldn't actually enable something that breaks it. Duh ;-)
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 266 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 13-May-2004 10:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 249 (Anonymous):
Lets just agree to disagree on that one, ok? I think it's perfectly possible to gradually turn it into a more modern system.

For some reason I get the idea that what you really want is AmigaOS turned into a clone of some existing solution. Why? Why can't you just use Windows? ;-)
I think Windows is a joke, MacOS is too plastic and Linux is too server-oriented. I want AmigaOS to be AmigaOS, which means I would rather see incremental upgrades than a major rewrite into something I don't know.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 267 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 13-May-2004 16:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 266 (Ole-Egil):
Amen to that!
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 268 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 13-May-2004 17:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 261 (Amon_Re):
They wont work due to limitations in the emulated box - so what?

It's the same as when some of those same programs of OS8 wont work inside ShapeShifter or other emulators.

What does this have to do with "hook into"?
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 269 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 13-May-2004 17:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 266 (Ole-Egil):
"I think Windows is a joke, MacOS is too plastic and Linux is too server-oriented. I want AmigaOS to be AmigaOS, which means I would rather see incremental upgrades than a major rewrite into something I don't know."

I agree.

IMO the historical reason why Unixes and Linux are server-oriented is that in those days hard drives were rare, small and expensive; so the client-server system made most sense. Nowadays everyone has plenty of storage, and IMO peer-to-peer should be the "normal" network system for Amigas.

Also, the peer-to-peer software must assume that any connection is temporary and can break at any time - either the Amiga gets switched off, or it passes out of wireless range, or whatever. When that happens, there should not be an outbreak of error messages. Unix assumes that there is normally a fixed, wired network as in a typical university setup.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 270 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 13-May-2004 18:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 269 (Don Cox):
What does peer-to-peer and networking have to do with this?

All systems using TCP/IP suffers from the same problems, it is the nature of how TCP/IP works. Your statement makes no sense.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 271 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 13-May-2004 19:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 270 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
TCP/IP != Peer to peer,
UDP/IP != Peer to peer,
IPX/SPX != Peer to Peer,

I don't think he is taking about TCP/IP i think he is taking about /etc/fstab
NETFS, SMBFS mount points, services.

"peer to peer" as inn Gnutella, napster, and so on.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 272 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 13-May-2004 20:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 271 (Kjetil):
And?

He's talking about machines getting turned off, loss of wireless range etc, those are issues that the TCP/IP-stack will have to deal with. It doesnt matter whether there is a peer-to-peer client ontop of that.

As for clients. vs. servers, that is just a protocol model, it is neither better nor worse than peer-to-peer, there are different uses where one model make more sense than the other. Once the network is physically down however, it is not the peer-to-peer clients that will deal with it, but the TCP/IP-stack itself.

If you want to go into those issues Don tried to reach for, you have to look at roaming and mobile IP, it might even be interesting to look into IPv6 and multicast.. all of which are close to unheard of in amiga land.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 273 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-May-2004 21:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 266 (Ole-Egil):
> For some reason I get the idea that what you really want is AmigaOS turned into a clone of some existing solution. Why? Why can't you just use Windows? ;-)

Firstly, of course I use Windows. The point is that AmigaOS has to reach a state that makes that unnecessary. You can't tell people this is a good OS but, cough, please buy a PC to get your work done. Secondly, I don't want AmigaOS to be turned into a clone of anything, I just want it to have the must-have-no-discussion features in the world of operating systems. For example, when I'm asking for Unicode, that demand is not made because Windows XP has Unicode but because it's obvious that 8 bit ASCII, which was great in 1967, just doesn't cut it anymore. What will you tell the Chinese, piss off, our OS can't handle your language? I'm a bit disappointed that, while three groups are working on the next AmigaOS, none has the ambition to make a substantially better OS. I'm specifically disappointed about AROS: they have no financial obligations, they could go anywhere, make a really cool OS, but they, too, make an exact clone of an OS in a sad state.
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 274 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 14-May-2004 07:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 272 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
TCP/IP is indeed peer-to-peer, and it does handle a lot of corner cases. The problem Don has seen is obviously connected to the Unix world and network filesystems like NFS and SMB. NFS sucks HORRIBLY when it comes to loosing connection. It is truly bad to be working on an NFS mount when someone pulls the plug on your network. SMB isn't all that much better, unfortunately (don't even THINK about setting up a Windows file server and a linux client).

I think Don is right, actually. As long as network filesystems and client-server models are based around the idea that networks are always up, they are going to be worth fuck-all to us. It's perfectly possible to catch most of the bad corner cases in software already, though. It's just that NFS and SMB don't ;-)
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 275 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 14-May-2004 14:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 274 (Ole-Egil):
There's no problem with this actually, the question is how you deal with it from the clients perspective. What UNIX and the legacy of it suffers from, is the assumtion that, not the network, but the _filesystems_ is there to stay forever. If you deal with smb/nfs/whatever servers through clients (like KDE's buildt in handler for smb:// and nfs://) it doesnt matter if the conncetion is broken.

The problem will always be though, how long do one have to wait before you can assume that the connection indeed is broken and wont reappear the next second? :)
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 276 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 14-May-2004 14:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 275 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
(like KDE's buildt in handler for smb:// and nfs://)

this will not solve the the NO access from command line problem.

The problem will always be though, how long do one have to wait before you can assume that the connection indeed is broken and wont reappear the next second? :)

unless you have more sources when you lose connection to one host
AmigaShare Software Library expands its Platform support! : Comment 277 of 277ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 14-May-2004 20:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 276 (Kjetil):
But it CAN be accessed from the command line too, it is just a question of implementation, not about network protocols. So linux and unix is done in a way where the desktop and shell has little/no interoperability - that is just legacy issue.

More sources wont help you when the plug is pulled, and when you operate with filesystems that have more sources, you have to deal with sync-issues.. or do you expect all network filesystems to be readonly? You could cache all writes locally till you are online again, but what if someone else changed the files on the network in the meantime?

You can spin this around as many times you like, for every solution you find, new problems will show up, and it gets more and more complicated. In the end you wish yourself back to NFS again :)
Anonymous, there are 277 items in your selection (but only 27 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 150] [151 - 200] [201 - 250] [251 - 277]
Back to Top