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[News] Pre-Realese announcementANN.lu
Posted on 13-May-2004 20:17 GMT by ece227 comments
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After consultation with our German CD production partner, House of Audio, Hyperion Entertainment is pleased to announce that the Developer Pre-Release of AmigaOS 4.0 is now tentatively scheduled for May 21th, 2004. Leuwen, Belgium - May 13 2004. The AmigaOS 4.0 CD will be distributed through your AmigaOne dealer. Source: Amigaworld.net
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 151 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 15-May-2004 06:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 146 (Kjetil):
Yes, processor traps are faster than MMU exceptions.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 152 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 15-May-2004 06:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 146 (Kjetil):
Yes, processor traps are faster than MMU exceptions, for the simple reason that MMU exceptions add overhead to the mechanism that produces processor traps.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 153 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Burström on 15-May-2004 07:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 145 (Fabio Alemagna):
>You didn't rely? You mean you have more than one way to emulate things? That's even more embarassing, if you ask me. I can only assume the "other way" is there so to avoid the performance penalty of the "1st way".

Fabio, stop it before you emarass yourself too much. 1 solution can never be
better than 2 if the 2 are tailor made for their specific purposes. And that it what happens in this case.

>It's not me who said that the emulator works by catching attempts of the processor to execute data, and by assuming that data is 68k code.

Pointing fingers now? In your usual ego manner you are making statements like 'everybody knows' without having a clue what you are talking about. Please accept that you can be corrected once in a while without behaving like a 5 year old child! Besides, I was giving you a rather technical explanation since I don't want to get in the 'no, you are wrong, I am right' type of discussion. And I was hoping that you (and others) would take the opportuinity to learn something, but apparently you are not receptive to that.

regards,
Stefan
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 154 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 15-May-2004 08:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 148 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
Anything is faster than causing an MMU exception and then have to do a context switch...

What assembler brash instructions do we have let me Se,

JMP,BNE,BEQ,BSR,RTS, I'm problem missing a few, lets assume you need to trap all of this brash assembler instructions on the PPC side to make upp for the MMU trap, lets assume 1 of 8 is an brash instruction that needs to be trapped in some or the other, you most be crazy to assume it you wont have more hits and more ofthen then whit mmu trap codes by a failing to execute PPC code once inn a while,

I have done some reading on the subject and find that most time critical problem is flushing and configuring of the MMU unit, allocmem(), free() is typical operation that will do so, and this where the context switching as I understand it will happen.

JIT can handle such code just fine...

No it can't, think of the 68k program as temp data no more no less, once it recompiled to becomes PPC native it is no more translated.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 155 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 15-May-2004 08:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (Analnymous):
What I gather from reading the aus.tv.digital groups is that Hauppauge might have "fixed" the Technotrend drivers for the European market (8 MHz channels), but that the Technotrend ones are definitely better for Australia's somewhat odd (7 MHz channel) system.Of course, I don't care --- I run the linux drivers. All I need to know is that it is indeed a Technotrend card, and that thus the Metzler Brothers' drivers work :)
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 156 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 15-May-2004 08:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 147 (Kjetil):
That would be silly --- of course a JIT is aware when code *might* have changed, because the 68k caches will be flushed.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 157 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 15-May-2004 09:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 153 (Stefan Burström):
>> You didn't rely? You mean you have more than one way to emulate things?
>> That's even more embarassing, if you ask me. I can only assume the "other
>> way" is there so to avoid the performance penalty of the "1st way".

> Fabio, stop it before you emarass yourself too much. 1 solution can never be
> better than 2 if the 2 are tailor made for their specific purposes. And that
> it what happens in this case.

Is that supposed to be fun? No, really, is there some irony in that statement? I sincerely hope so, even if I can't sense it, 'cause that's really a dumb thing to say. You're basically saying that whatever unique solution one can come up with, it will never be better than yout twofold solution, simply because yours is twofold. A claim without validity, and I can easily prove it: look at MOS' emulator.

>> It's not me who said that the emulator works by catching attempts of the
>> processor to execute data, and by assuming that data is 68k code.

> Pointing fingers now? In your usual ego manner you are making statements
> like 'everybody knows' without having a clue what you are talking about.

Everybody knows because that's what we've been told, as I showed above. We've, in more than one occasion, been told that the emulator works that way.

> Please accept that you can be corrected once in a while without behaving
> like a 5 year old child!

Sorry? What would be childish in what I'm saying? I'm commenting on the way AOS4 emulates 68k code, is that forbidden? Can't you stand criticism?

> Besides, I was giving you a rather technical
> explanation since I don't want to get in the 'no, you are wrong, I am right'
> type of discussion. And I was hoping that you (and others) would take the
> opportuinity to learn something, but apparently you are not receptive to
> that.

Please, enlighten me on this "something" I had the opportunity to learn. You are assuming that the fact you went into technical details would make me shut up, perhaps because you think that the AOS4 solution is the best possible one, but I am even more convinced, now that you went into techincal details, that it's perhaps the worse one: having the need to manually call Emulate() to avoid performance penalties, when this need is unexistent on alternative emulators, seems clumsy and certainly not the best solution.

Perhaps who should learn something is <n>not me here. By the way, You should also learn how to discuss without resorting to denigrating the other party when you feel cornered.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 158 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 15-May-2004 09:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (Christoph Gutjahr):
So they improved from "deceiving liars" ("GONE GOLD?") to "cowards with too much of an ego"? Not that bad, me thinks...

Same campaign, same principles. It's announcing the same event which, I hasten to add, HAS NOT HAPPENED YET. How many times do they expect to release news stories about the release before it ever happens?

That's a good one, Bill. Even if Hyperion deliver the best product mankind ever invented, at a price that would even tempt Ralph Schmidt, you can still blame them for "demanding to be treated like gods". I'm impressed.

But they haven't delivered anything. They haven't even delivered the product that nearly three years ago they said was only a matter of months away, never mind "the best product mankind ever invented". All they have delivered is FUD against anything they regard as competition and a lot of very empty "tentative announcements of Earlybird developer pre-release dates. Maybe."

Because it wouldn't make the slightest bit of a difference. You'd still be here, complaining about god knows what.

Actually, you're wrong. I only complain when people give me good reason to. Seeking excessive publicity for delivering exactly nothing is one of those good reasons.

On the other hand, some AmigaOne customers might be interested.
In a date they are explicitly told they cannot rely on? Why not just say "two more weeks"?

How many of those waiting for the "developer pre-release CD" are developers? 100%? 75%? 50%? Less? Much less? How many will then claim that AmigaOS4 has had a public release? All of them? It's called wanting to have your cake and eat it. Kudos without responsibility.

I respect the Hyperion team's ability as programmers. When it comes to public statements, announcements, comments on rival products and attitude towards any who question them, I put them firmly in the same integrity category as Bill Buck, however much that may upset those of the brown-nose brigade.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 159 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 15-May-2004 09:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 156 (Bernie Meyer):
Thats interesting just hope petunia has that feature.


What programs are not working for now? Which is
* containing some kind of unemulated opcode (see Emulated features above);

* a badly written program, causing memory hits, or self-modifying on an illegal way.


This is from petunia web page, maybe you should help him out,

http://amigos.amiga.hu/rachy/petunia.html
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 160 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 15-May-2004 09:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 159 (Kjetil):
* a badly written program, causing memory hits, or self-modifying on an illegal way.
--

"self-modifying in *an illegal way*". That is, come is modifying itself WITHOUT
notifying the system. So yes, Petunia should work with the rest of the s-m code,
the same way Trance and Bernie's JIT work.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 161 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 15-May-2004 09:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 160 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Fuck... "come is" == "Code that is"
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 162 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 15-May-2004 09:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 158 (Bill Hoggett):
<a>How many of those waiting for the "developer pre-release CD" are developers? 100%? 75%? 50%? Less? Much less? How many will then claim that AmigaOS4 has had a public release? All of them? It's called wanting to have your cake and eat it. Kudos without responsibility.</a>

<a href="http://os.amiga.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2108&highlight=develope+develop">
Developer survey (for non developers, too) </a>
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 163 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 15-May-2004 09:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (Kjetil):
How many of those waiting for the "developer pre-release CD" are developers? 100%? 75%? 50%? Less? Much less? How many will then claim that AmigaOS4 has had a public release? All of them? It's called wanting to have your cake and eat it. Kudos without responsibility.

Developer survey (for non developers, too)
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 164 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 15-May-2004 09:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 158 (Bill Hoggett):
"How many of those waiting for the "developer pre-release CD" are developers? 100%? 75%? 50%? Less? Much less?"

It's a "developer pre-release" in the sense that the stuff that used to be on a separate Dev CD (which you had to pay for) is now included with the OS.

Yes, it's a slightly silly name. "AmigaOS 4.0 beta" would be better.

I'm surprised by how many people have posted that they intend to do some programming as soon as they can. Certainly the proportion of users with some technical competence will be much higher than for Windows or Mac.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 165 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 15-May-2004 10:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Peg2):
Posted by Peg2 (213.84.167.195) on 14-May-2004 13:52:24
In Reply to Comment 77 (Emeric SH):
""Goes good"? For example?"

OS4 goes gold,
___________________

This is ridicolous.
A so called developer alpha, that in Webbit 3 dayz ago make laugh all serious IT people, a beta slow and bugged on Aone worse than Mos 1.1 on Pegasos1 ... now is a GOld of the Aos4???
LOL is this CD the AOs4?
If yes we can start to laugh LOL
Slow, bugged, unstable ... and this is named "the Aos4 gold" :°D

Maybe in 2006 will see a decent scroll in a window named "ne advanced feature!"
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 166 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 15-May-2004 10:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 165 (Eva):
You know Eva I don't take your comment where seriously how many times have you bin removed the last days, look to me you are where interested in AmigaOS40 you post allot of comments, just that they have no content.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 167 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 15-May-2004 11:01 GMT
Ok, someone in eyetechs office got all overly excited about some internal affairs and decided to bring the world (how ever small it may be) in and posted a pre-release of a pre-release (recursive intended).

its all really very very silly.....

Like in hey, how come we don't hear about Amiga Foever going gold, or Image IFX going gold or .... well whatever software ...?

Or when are we going to start hearing about joe or mac, employees of this or that software company, getting out of the shitter, and getting back to work, after they visit the coke machine?

This is in no way consumer information..... but isn't there like some developer network that might have ben more appropriate for such? Or did that go down with Amiga Inc?
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 168 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 15-May-2004 11:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 154 (Kjetil):
"JMP,BNE,BEQ,BSR,RTS, I'm problem missing a few, lets assume you need to trap all of this brash assembler instructions on the PPC side to make upp for the MMU trap, lets assume 1 of 8 is an brash instruction that needs to be trapped in some or the other, you most be crazy to assume it you wont have more hits and more ofthen then whit mmu trap codes by a failing to execute PPC code once inn a while,"

You seem to have completely misunderstood the concept of traps .. traps (FYI, an illegal instruction) are added (in the code itself) where PPC code might potentially be called from 68k .. and here's the clever bit; you don't actually have to execute these illegal instructions (ie, the trap is never sprung), so if you implement it right there will be virtually no overhead in dealing with them...

"No it can't, think of the 68k program as temp data no more no less, once it recompiled to becomes PPC native it is no more translated."

Look, it's really quite simple, there are programs with selfmodifying code that tell the system that they've just modified the code (and there are those that don't, but they stopped working on higher specced amigas anyway. ;) ), as they should, and then it's no problem for the JIT to detect this and reJIT the code in question...


- CISC
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 169 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 15-May-2004 11:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 167 (3seas):
There IS a good reason for that... There are many people who have been waiting
for OS4 with an AmigaONE in one hand and you know what in the other (that's
actually a Greek phrase, so...).
I might not be one of them but I understand them fully.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 170 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Andrea Maniero on 15-May-2004 11:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 157 (Fabio Alemagna):
> Everybody knows because that's what we've been told, as I showed above.
> We've, in more than one occasion, been told that the emulator works that way.

Fabio, accept the fact that the emulator does't work that way anymore. After all, they were told by many people - you included - their approach wasn't feasible (at least not without some serious performance hit), and they had to find out this by themselves. It's not the first thing that looks very good on paper (but kinda fails on practice) they had to change during the development - as we've discovered from some admissions here and there - otherwise a prerelease would have been out some time ago.

OTOH, it has to be said (to Eva, for instance :P ) that the prerelease shown at WebbIt was way better than PA version last september. Lacking various components and functionalities, yes. Visibly lower and more incomplete than MOS, yes. But not so slow and buggy anymore... Still suffering quite a lot from a direct comparison with MOS, though (IMHO).

Kind regards,
Andrea
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 171 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 15-May-2004 11:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 170 (Andrea Maniero):
> Fabio, accept the fact that the emulator does't work that way anymore.

Ehum... I clearly remembr one of the Hyperion guys stating the emulator worked that way just a couple of months ago, has the emulator changed since then? Is the MMU not involved anymore, at all?

If it's still involved, I stand correct, as that's the sole point I was making, together with the fact that they needed, or so I'm told in this thread, to implement a parallel mechanism to emulate 68k code in a faster way.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 172 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer on 15-May-2004 11:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
>How many VIA customers have been able to simply download Windows XP for their >machine? I would be interested, because I actually bought my copy.

You can download MS Windows 2003 Enterprise Edition (180 days evaluation) (as an ISO) or alternatively one could download "Windows XP 64-Bit Edition for 64-Bit Extended Systems" beta ISO image from Microsoft.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 173 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 15-May-2004 13:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 170 (Andrea Maniero):
Yep, Andrea, absolutely (and honestly this is the minimum), but, who saw Mos 1.1 2 years ago know well its level compared to the acclaimed AOs4 beta gold :D
It's starting to be really fun :D
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 174 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 15-May-2004 13:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 170 (Andrea Maniero):
"OTOH, it has to be said (to Eva, for instance :P ) that the prerelease shown at WebbIt was way better than PA version last september. Lacking various components and functionalities, yes. Visibly lower and more incomplete than MOS, yes. But not so slow and buggy anymore... Still suffering quite a lot from a direct comparison with MOS, though (IMHO)."

Competition is good.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 175 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-May-2004 13:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 172 (Hammer):
>How many VIA customers have been able to simply download Windows XP for their machine?

A lot if you take p2p into account ;)
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 176 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 15-May-2004 13:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 173 (Eva):
I have not looked on the product inn real life sines summer 2003, so I where exited to compare it whit previous experience, at that time they just managed to get it running on an A4000, so I'm where exited about the performance,

never looked at MorphOS an real life so I can't comment on the speed difference, i know I have some old avi, mpegs some where I can compare whit, Last time they demoed QuakePlayer on AmigaOS40 it run at amazing speed.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 177 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Álmos Rajnai on 15-May-2004 16:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 159 (Kjetil):
Thats interesting just hope petunia has that feature.

Sure it is. :)
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 178 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by EyeAm on 15-May-2004 16:51 GMT
Remember, they said "late 2004". That was the latest CHANGE of plans (before it gets changed again, of course).

--EyeAm (looking at the shells on the table, knowing it's not under any of them).
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 179 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 15-May-2004 18:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 168 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
You seem to have completely misunderstood the concept of traps .. traps (FYI, an illegal instruction) are added (in the code itself) where PPC code might potentially be called from 68k .. and here's the clever bit; you don't actually have to execute these illegal instructions (ie, the trap is never sprung), so if you implement it right there will be virtually no overhead in dealing with them...

I se you use unknown upcodes as break points eg api's and library's, the interface is 68k, However this will only work when you know what code your going to execute, eg. Warpup mixed code, the mui ppc example can work that way, however this will not cover unexpected behavior inn an old programs, so there is a penalty after all,

Look, it's really quite simple, there are programs with self modifying code that tell the system that they've just modified the code (and there are those that don't, but they stopped working on higher specced amigas anyway. ;) ), as they should, and then it's no problem for the JIT to detect this and reJIT the code in question...

Yeh I know Bernie Meyer just explained to me, tanks. I think you are staring to satisfy my curiosity really.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 180 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 15-May-2004 18:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 177 (Álmos Rajnai):
Sure it is. :)

Thanks I hope you can demo petunia soon.

When you generate new apis for 68k programs how do know have large the LVO structure is?

do you check for zero termination? or if you there is no more JMP instruction opcodes, on next entry in the static jmp table?

do you use unknown opcodes to break runtime, eg. emulate() function explained before, new pointer table structure?
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 181 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 15-May-2004 21:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 176 (Kjetil):
Last time they demoed QuakePlayer on AmigaOS40
___________

This show clearly your ignorance and that you are talking and whuining on your imagination.
The only fst quake showned on Aone was UNDER LINUX, IGNORANT!
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 182 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer on 15-May-2004 22:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 175 (Anonymous):
Not factored in btw.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 183 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 15-May-2004 23:33 GMT
scheduled for what..release?
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 184 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 16-May-2004 04:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 179 (Kjetil):
"I se you use unknown upcodes as break points eg api's and library's, the interface is 68k, However this will only work when you know what code your going to execute, eg. Warpup mixed code, the mui ppc example can work that way, however this will not cover unexpected behavior inn an old programs, so there is a penalty after all,"

Huh? Now you lost me... What does old programs have to do with anything?

You only have to think about traps when your code can potentially be called from 68k (old programs are exempt since they are either 68k or PUP/WUP (which will never have any code that can be called from 68k (if they need to do this, they have a 68k stub that calls a ppc/powerpc.library function that does the switch)) .. the only penalty involved here is taking care to add those traps when you are working on the code, once that's done the OS will take care of the rest...


- CISC
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 185 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Álmos Rajnai on 16-May-2004 05:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 180 (Kjetil):
I don't exactly see the connecntion between the LVO jump tables and the self modifying code. (Sorry, I did not follow this thread, I think it is really out of its course.)
Emulation trap handling in AmigaOS4 is working on different levels, depeding on what kind of code called what kind. I don't want to explain it here, it is explained in the SDK if you are really interested.
I want to point out one thing: there is no unneccesary virtual context switches at all. (Eg. when PPC native code is calling PPC native code.)
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 186 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 16-May-2004 06:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 185 (Álmos Rajnai):
I don't exactly see the connection between the LVO jump tables and the self modifying code. (Sorry, I did not follow this thread, I think it is really out of its course.)

For many years a go I made an small program trying to find the number of library functions there is an library, so I where just curios if it where done the same way, or if there is an other way, yes it has nothing to do whit the other subjects.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 187 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by ikir on 16-May-2004 08:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 165 (Eva):
This is pure trolling Eva. The Webbit show was a great success! 20.000 visitors and the 99 of these see the Amiga stand, THE MOST VISITED OF THE ENTIRE IT SHOW!

Only saturday were thousands of exited visitors about OS4, the interest couldn't be higher. This was the most successfull Amiga show in years, thanks to AmigaOS4 and AmigaOne.

Nobody want that you like this products if you don't want it, but spreading fud and false informations is not that good.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 188 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Álmos Rajnai on 16-May-2004 10:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 186 (Kjetil):
Finding out the number of functions is not really possible, unfortunately.

I always hoped that one day we will have a COM-like system...
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 189 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Andrea Maniero on 16-May-2004 11:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 173 (Eva):
> Yep, Andrea, absolutely (and honestly this is the minimum), but, who saw Mos
> 1.1 2 years ago know well its level compared to the acclaimed AOs4 beta
> gold :D

OK, Eva, you're starting to make sense again! :PP This is something we can actually compare. And yes, MOS in 2002 was faster and more responsive than AOS4 is now (I bet it's mostly down to the 68k P96, and the lack of fast IDE drivers that lead to longer loading times). AT that time MOS didn't have the integrated JIT emulator, therefore the comparison is fair. If someone doesn't believe me, all he has to do is to take a look at the reports from the Essen show (since they are in german, you can use babel as an aid...) on amiga-news.de, that show that many attenders were disappointed by the status of the pre release. I wasn't, since I found it way better than last September (which means development is ongoing at a "fast" pace).

> It's starting to be really fun :D

Wasn't all of this (I mean, this "Amiga"-thing) supposed to be fun since the beginning (you should know!)?
So let's have fun, and compare serenely the two products...

Kind regards,
Andrea
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 190 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 16-May-2004 13:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 187 (ikir):
"Only saturday were thousands of exited visitors about OS4, the interest couldn't be higher. This was the most successfull Amiga show in years, thanks to AmigaOS4 and AmigaOne."

Was it made clear to them that what they saw was a pre-release, not a finished product? If it is still slow, you would not want them going away thinking that was the final version.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 191 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2004 13:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 190 (Don Cox):
And will ever be slow, as explained here !

Thanks to the OS4 to have drop any chance of an alliance and then the last chance of a real come back of the Amiga
Thanks to AOne that will put a big stain to the Amiga name. Just becomme it doesn't work ...

Thanks a lot !
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 192 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 16-May-2004 13:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 126 (ikir):
>Please everyone, stop trolling

Except few ones, people here aren't really trolling, they are discussing a product,
doing exactly what the comment system has designed for. If you want to read
only comments such as "great work", "very good", "that's the news we waited
for years" you know where to go ;)

I don't understand why you consider 'trolling ' any serious criticism to a product
or a behaviour. Should Amiga users just stay silent and buy?

About webbit and your boooring 'troll troll!' accuse to Eva, fact that people
visited a stand just does mean interest and curiosity in a well known brand name,
not that the showed products are a future market hit or are perfect
just because they are. OS4 is a very good and promising OS but is still very young
and has to growth a lot more, you can't accuse people to troll if they just say so.

By the way, is there any indipendent review of what people seen at webbit?

So said, Ikir, please don't do here what you do on italian forums, calling
troll whoever has a doubt or criticize something. Forums are here to discuss
not to only write 'very good work' as some people does for whatever is
released/done/announced for Amiga systems.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 193 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 16-May-2004 14:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 192 (Gabriele Favrin):
If repeatingly stating the same non-constructive "criticism" over and over again is not trolling, then I don't know what is.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 194 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 16-May-2004 15:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 191 (Anonymous):
"And will ever be slow, as explained here !"

I see no reason why it shouldn't be speeded up considerably. Users should insist on this - making do with a sluggish response as in Mac OS X is not good enough for an Amiga.

After all, responsiveness is almost the only remaining selling point for AmigaOS. While we know it has other good features, they are hard to demonstrate or explain.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 195 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 16-May-2004 15:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 193 (Sammy Nordström):
"If repeatingly stating the same non-constructive "criticism" over and over again is not trolling, then I don't know what is."

No, I don't think that's trolling - it's just being a bore.

Trolling is making a superficially innocent post which is deliberately designed to cause howls of protest followed by a flame war. I don't think Eva is good enough at English to do that.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 196 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 16-May-2004 15:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 187 (ikir):
Ikir don't spam FUD!
AWebbit is a thing and Aos4 show another and if you say that AOs4 imnpressed somone you are FALSE an partial, and I can only understand why due the fact that you are direct involved in the stand. Stop.
Aos4 shows clearly its state and you cannot goes around the mountain telling 20000 ppl was at webbit without adding "was at Webbit to see how bugged and slow is Aos4".
And stop to be hypocrit.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 197 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 16-May-2004 16:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 192 (Gabriele Favrin):
About webbit and your boooring 'troll troll!' accuse to Eva, fact that people
visited a stand just does mean interest and curiosity in a well known brand name,
not that the showed products are a future market hit or are perfect
just because they are. OS4 is a very good and promising OS but is still very young
and has to growth a lot more, you can't accuse people to troll if they just say so.
____________

I fully subscibe Poing.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 198 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 16-May-2004 16:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 195 (Don Cox):
I don't think Eva is good enough at English to do that
______

yep, this is mainly the main problem.
Another is the actitude of Aos side to call all ppl that criticize a slow and bugged piece of software ... troll.
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 199 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 16-May-2004 17:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 187 (ikir):
This is pure trolling Eva. The Webbit show was a great success! 20.000 visitors and the 99 of these see the Amiga stand, THE MOST VISITED OF THE ENTIRE IT SHOW!

I can't find very excited reviews of the Amiga stand on the net.
On the cuntrary I've found a lot of reviews of Webbit that talk about
a not very good event, with many people worried, the original format
changed, doubts about the choosen days and no reference at all about
Amiga. Check this for example:
http://www.lorenzone.it/news/wmview.php?ArtID=341

No one (eg. wup, punto informatico and so on) talked about this great
success of Webbit 2004 and especially the Amiga stands. Maybe you have
been so visited because there wasn't anything better (eg. the Arena)?

Please Ikir, help us to find indipendent reviews of Webbit
(I mean not written by people involved with Amiga).
Pre-Realese announcement : Comment 200 of 227ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2004 19:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 198 (Eva):
>Another is the actitude of Aos side to call all ppl that criticize a slow and bugged piece of software ... troll.

So you mean that your attiutude of calling poeple dogs left and right is better? Need a reality check perhaps?

Besdides, isnt it nice of th Aos side to call MOS critics trolls? :-)
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