| [Rant] Thanks to everyone involved. | ANN.lu |
| Posted on 20-Jun-2004 13:11 GMT by MOSlem | 137 comments
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With this mail I want to thank everyone (bPlan, Genesi, MorphOS developer team and all the volunteers) involved into the PegasosII and MorphOS for keeping up the good old Amiga spirit and showing us the future for Amiga. Big thanks to all of you who you spent all the years onto the Amiga and finally found a new real path for the Amiga. For me as user PegasosII and MorphOS is everything that I want to see a modern Amiga should be. Quite modern and affordable Hardware, a nice clean and fast Operating System and all the developers and 3rd party people heavily supporting it. Without you the Amiga would still be a dead thing but with all you people we are happy to look forward into a nice future.
Thanks again.
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 101 of 137 | ANN.lu |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 102 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Amon_Re on 22-Jun-2004 13:45 GMT | In reply to Comment 78 (Bladerunner):
Well, it doesn't really matter what they called it, or were planning to call it, so lets leave it at that 'k? :) |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 103 of 137 | ANN.lu |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 104 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Amon_Re on 22-Jun-2004 13:51 GMT | In reply to Comment 101 (Sammy Nordström):
Calling MOS a reïmplementation sounds reasonable to me, i wouldn't know a better term to use.
Cheers |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 105 of 137 | ANN.lu |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 106 of 137 | ANN.lu |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 107 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 22-Jun-2004 15:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 101 (Sammy Nordström):
I am saying you are taking quotes out of context and being pedantic about your interpretation. In short, I am saying that you are trolling. |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 108 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 22-Jun-2004 15:11 GMT | In reply to Comment 104 (Amon_Re):
So is AmigaOS4: a re-implementation of the original AmigaOS. It's not a direct port (Hyperion have been quite certain to point that out), but a re-implementation. Both MOS and AOS4 go further than to just re-implement classic AmigaOS, of course, but that's not relevant here.
Official or unofficial does not enter the equation. |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 109 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Sammy Nordström on 22-Jun-2004 15:32 GMT | In reply to Comment 107 (Bill Hoggett):
>I am saying you are taking quotes out of context
Then please explain the context I'm missing here. Please note that we've already settled the previous misunderstanding where I interpreted you literary instead of realizing that you were just beeing ironic. Let's move on and tell me what the problem is this time.
>and being pedantic about your
>interpretation.
First you claim that I don't understand english, then you say that I'm pedantic with my interpretations... Is there any way to please you at all?
>In short, I am saying that you are trolling.
For the sake of preventing further misunderstandings, please define "trolling". Yes, I could look it up, but I'm interested in what way YOU define this word since YOU are the one I'm trying to understand. |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 110 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Amon_Re on 22-Jun-2004 15:48 GMT | In reply to Comment 108 (Bill Hoggett):
Bill, i know, and i didn't bring up any questions relating to ownership, porting or what not (except for those weak attempts at humor) |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 111 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Sammy Nordström on 22-Jun-2004 15:51 GMT | In reply to Comment 108 (Bill Hoggett):
>Official or unofficial does not enter the equation.
I agree, the trademark has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
Again, AmigaOS4 *is* AmigaOS, not a re-implementation of AmigaOS. MorphOS, even if it contains AmigaOS wrappers and reverse engineered AmigaOS APIs, is an entirely new product line rather than a re-implementation of the AmigaOS. The wrappers and APIs are there for making the transition to the new OS and hardware platform a bit more convinient and attractive for AmigaOS users, but that doesn't change the fact that it's an entirely new OS with it's own specific design, extensions and functionality that is completely different from the real AmigaOS. |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 112 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 22-Jun-2004 16:46 GMT | In reply to Comment 111 (Sammy Nordström):
> Again, AmigaOS4 *is* AmigaOS, not a re-implementation of AmigaOS.
Do you know what a reimplementation is? I guess not.
AmigaOS4 is not a direct port of the AmigaOS source code. Most of it has been
rewritten, retaining compatability. What is that? A reimplementation.
> MorphOS, even if it contains AmigaOS wrappers and reverse engineered AmigaOS
> APIs, is an entirely new product line rather than a re-implementation of the
> AmigaOS.
Argh! You just said it yourself that it contains "reverse engineered AmigaOS
APIs"... What did they do with those APIs? They did reimplement them!
For a programmer you sound pretty clueless...
> The wrappers and APIs are there for making the transition to the new OS and
> hardware platform a bit more convinient and attractive for AmigaOS users, but > that doesn't change the fact that it's an entirely new OS with it's own
> specific design, extensions and functionality that is completely different
> from the real AmigaOS.
You really don't have no clue about MorphOS, so give up already... Ok?
MorphOS on it's whole is different but the A/Box, the "thing" that everybody
sees and uses right now is EXACTLY what AmigaOS is. It uses the AmigaOS design,
API etc. People can go on using that even after the Q/Box gets ready.
It is built so that compatibility can be retained "forever" while moving to a
more modern environment.
On the other hand, on AmigaOS4, Hyperion already expressed their intent to
remove backward compatibility when it reaches maturity on a software level.
At that point what will be left for old AmigaOS users? Most AmigaOS users that
have PCs use certain OLD software for the Amiga even when there are replacements
for their platform AND the PC. They use those programs because they do the job
they want to do better. Fine. These progs will be gone forever...
Face it Samface... |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 113 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 22-Jun-2004 18:48 GMT | In reply to Comment 111 (Sammy Nordström):
"Again, AmigaOS4 *is* AmigaOS, not a re-implementation of AmigaOS"
The "original" AmigaOS? The Classic AmigaOS? AmigaOS4 is exactly the same as the original AmigaOS? Nothing has been re-worked, redesigned or re-impleneted?
What a huge massive porkie!! |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 114 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 22-Jun-2004 18:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 110 (Amon_Re):
I know. I guess my clarification was aimed at someone else, but I was probably wasting my time. |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 115 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bladerunner on 22-Jun-2004 18:53 GMT | In reply to Comment 102 (Amon_Re):
Well sometimes I like to nitpick ;-) So yes if we talk about AmigaDE, (which is imho today more vapour then ever) we should remember that this was meant to be "Amiga OS"
But honestly I don`t care about "Amiga" that much. My Amiga`s are Amiga, my PC has an emulated Amiga, my Peg is very Amigaish... so everything is very,,, friendly isn`t it? ;D |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 116 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by smithy on 22-Jun-2004 20:23 GMT | In reply to Comment 111 (Sammy Nordström):
>Again, AmigaOS4 *is* AmigaOS, not a re-implementation of AmigaOS. MorphOS,
>even if it contains AmigaOS wrappers and reverse engineered AmigaOS APIs, is
>an entirely new product line rather than a re-implementation of the AmigaOS.
MorphOS is a re-implementation and an entirely new product! |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 117 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Hoggett on 22-Jun-2004 21:03 GMT | In reply to Comment 113 (Bill Hoggett):
"re-impleneted" :-P
Bill will now go away and re-implement his typing skills. |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 118 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JKD on 23-Jun-2004 04:16 GMT | In reply to Comment 115 (Bladerunner):
*An* Amiga OS or *the* Amiga OS ;-)
See even a simple statement such as that can be taken and twisted...
The first being an OS (in fact, any OS) from a company called Amiga, the second being an Operating System most readily assosciated with hardware from Commodore..the Amiga series of computers
What a crappy thread :D
Troll harder people, it's getting boring in these parts!
Steve |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 119 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Sammy Nordström on 23-Jun-2004 06:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 112 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>> Again, AmigaOS4 *is* AmigaOS, not a re-implementation of AmigaOS.
>
>Do you know what a reimplementation is? I guess not.
>AmigaOS4 is not a direct port of the AmigaOS source code. Most of it has been
>rewritten, retaining compatability. What is that? A reimplementation.
You're missing one small but important detail; AmigaOS4 is AmigaOS. I mean, you
sound like I would be claiming that AmigaOS4 would be the same as AmigaOS3.x. I'm not. I'm saying that AmigaOS4 is AmigaOS just like AmigaOS3.x or any other version of AmigaOS is AmigaOS.
I guess what you are saying is that AmigaOS4 is a re-implementation of it's
predecessor (ie AmigaOS3.x), which is no different from any previous versions of
AmigaOS. All versions of AmigaOS is a reimplementation of it's predeccessor. I
really don't see why that would have to be pointed out to begin with.
>> MorphOS, even if it contains AmigaOS wrappers and reverse engineered AmigaOS
>> APIs, is an entirely new product line rather than a re-implementation of the
>> AmigaOS.
>
>Argh! You just said it yourself that it contains "reverse engineered AmigaOS
>APIs"... What did they do with those APIs? They did reimplement them!
>For a programmer you sound pretty clueless...
They implemented (not *re*implemented) those reverse engineered APIs, yes. That is NOT the same thing as implementing nor re-implementing the original APIs of the original AmigaOS.
>> The wrappers and APIs are there for making the transition to the new OS and
>> hardware platform a bit more convinient and attractive for AmigaOS users,
>> but that doesn't change the fact that it's an entirely new OS with it's own
>> specific design, extensions and functionality that is completely different
>> from the real AmigaOS.
>
>You really don't have no clue about MorphOS, so give up already... Ok?
>MorphOS on it's whole is different but the A/Box, the "thing" that everybody
>sees and uses right now is EXACTLY what AmigaOS is.
I might not be a MorphOS expert, but surely you realize that neither you or I are in a position to decide what is or what isn't AmigaOS? The A/Box is not even an OS on it's own, it's just a "sandbox" within MorphOS for providing backwards compatibility with older versions of the AmigaOS product line. MorphOS "native" software won't run on any version of the AmigaOS product line without emulation. I don't know about you, but that's not *exactly* the same to me.
>It uses the AmigaOS
>design,
No. The Q/Box is no AmigaOS design and the A/Box is only replicating older and outdated designs of the AmigaOS product line.
>API etc.
No. It's alike in a "acts and looks" kind of fashion, that's all.
>People can go on using that even after the Q/Box gets ready.
>It is built so that compatibility can be retained "forever" while moving to a
>more modern environment.
Which is exactly what makes it an entirely new OS on it's own rather than just a re-implementation of the AmigaOS. See?
>On the other hand, on AmigaOS4, Hyperion already expressed their intent to
>remove backward compatibility when it reaches maturity on a software level.
>At that point what will be left for old AmigaOS users? Most AmigaOS users that
>have PCs use certain OLD software for the Amiga even when there are
>replacements for their platform AND the PC. They use those programs because
>they do the job they want to do better. Fine. These progs will be gone
>forever...
Or, they'll simply take up on Cloanto's offer and integrate Amiga Forever... Who cares? I think it's a good thing that someone finally draws the line and enforces compatibility with modern standards. We've been stuck with the old standards for way too long. If you're so "dependant" on old Amiga software, get a PC with UAE.
Anyway, that's a completely different topic.
>Face it Samface...
That's probably the wittiest comment I've ever seen from you. That's not a compliment, mind you. |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 120 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Sammy Nordström on 23-Jun-2004 06:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 116 (smithy):
>MorphOS is a re-implementation and an entirely new product!
MorphOS is a new OS on it's own rather than a re-implementation of anything. The A/Box of MorphOS is an implementation (not a re-implementation) of AmigaOS3.x compatible APIs and wrappers. You with me yet? |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 121 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by itix on 23-Jun-2004 07:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 120 (Sammy Nordström):
"The A/Box of MorphOS is an implementation (not a re-implementation) of AmigaOS3.x compatible APIs and wrappers." Yeah yeah yeah, rrrrright. MUI and CGX are not part of AmigaOS 3 btw. MorphOS is the official solution to run MUI/CGX software ;^) |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 122 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Amon_Re on 23-Jun-2004 10:06 GMT | In reply to Comment 115 (Bladerunner):
Hey, if you like your stuff, more power to you ;) |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 123 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Framiga on 23-Jun-2004 11:39 GMT | In reply to Comment 120 (Sammy Nordström):
erm . . a new OS?!?
so the MOS structure and the AOS one, is only a mere coincidence?
ahhh the fate!!! |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 124 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Sammy Nordström on 23-Jun-2004 13:41 GMT | In reply to Comment 123 (Framiga):
AmigaOS does not have a Quark, does not run on the Pegasos, does not share all the features and functionalities of MorphOS, it is per definition a different OS.
The "structure", or similarities with older version of the AmigaOS if you like, is the so-called A/Box, which is running as an integrated part of MorphOS but still not as an OS on it's own. One could even go to the extreme and say that the A/Box is just a runtime environment for AmigaOS3.x software kind of like the AmigaDE is just a runtime environment for AmigaDE software. Windows with AmigaDE installed does not make Windows a re-implementation of the AmigaDE, now does it? |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 125 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JKD on 23-Jun-2004 14:15 GMT | In reply to Comment 124 (Sammy Nordström):
Hi Sammy,
now you've wasted yours and everyone's time with your pedantic semantics (as usual..) Go use a dictionary and look up implementation.
Under a dictionary definition, the 'original' (i.e. Amiga OS3.1) woulkd be irrelevant and it's merely opinion on whether MorphOS or AmigaOS4 are a re-implementation of AmigaOS....or maybe this was your point?
Is AmigaOS4 is the only product that can be considered as a re-implementation of AmigaOS because it's the only OS officially allowed to be called AmigaOS? - maybe that was your point (and/or opinion)?
Maybe you stated one or the pther or both quite a few posts ago before it got bogged down in the semantics?
Steve |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 126 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by greenboy on 23-Jun-2004 18:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 125 (JKD):
JKD,
You obviously need to spend more time with your electric guitar. Even if wearing mittens or using a chainsaw for a pick, the results are likely to be magnitudes more rewarding than attempting to continue this conversation. And it will sound better to others too. To paraphrase FZ, "Shuddup and PLAY IT!"
If you are at work and can not bring a guitar to the job, consider cleaning the men's room, shredding paper, restocking the pencil/pen holders in every cubicle, or any other number of more uplifting ways to spend the time.
Pretzel logic can be better learned at the feet of a master. Like Zippy the Pinhead, for starters.
Thank you for your time. |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 127 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JKD on 23-Jun-2004 20:51 GMT | In reply to Comment 126 (greenboy):
Sage advice...and taken. Repeat 1000 times, I shall not be this bored again.
OT Alert!!!!
FWIW all time is now taken up with new offsprog..Charlotte Rose born yesterday at 8lbs 5oz....don't be suprised if I'm not around :D
Steve |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 128 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by greenboy on 23-Jun-2004 21:00 GMT | In reply to Comment 127 (JKD):
JKD,
You are indeed prolific! ; }
Congrats, and enjoy another bout of frequent early AM wakeups : } |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 129 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 24-Jun-2004 08:59 GMT | In reply to Comment 119 (Sammy Nordström):
> That's probably the wittiest comment I've ever seen from you. That's not a
> compliment, mind you.
As if I care... |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 130 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 24-Jun-2004 09:01 GMT | In reply to Comment 126 (greenboy):
Advice taken too, even if it wasn't directed at me, gonna write some new riffs.
;-) |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 131 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by greenboy on 24-Jun-2004 13:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 130 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
If I want to listen to something that drones on and on - or want a hundred square kilometers worth of neighbors to - I just plug into this with my mighty six-string V-Bass and slam into some major riffage:
http://phinixi.com/~greenboy/MusicImage/pr1832he.jpg
Here's the environmentally safe, easy-to-grow-yerown, cuddly alternative I am considering marketing:
http://phinixi.com/~greenboy/MusicImage/chia.jpg |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 132 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Sammy Nordström on 25-Jun-2004 13:13 GMT | In reply to Comment 125 (JKD):
The point I'm trying to make is that there is no reason to differentiate AmigaOS4 from the AmigaOS product line since it is just as much a part of the AmigaOS product line as any other version of the AmigaOS. While AmigaOS4 might be a re-implementation of AmigaOS3.1, it's not a re-implementation of the AmigaOS.
It might sound like arguing about semantics to you, but I see it as a part of the "anti-AmigaOS4 campaign" to differentiate AmigaOS4 from the AmigaOS product line in order to devalue AmigaOS4's right to it's title as the one and only successor. Every version of the AmigaOS is of course a re-implementation of it's predecessor, but no version is "re-implementing" the entire product line. There is only one AmigaOS product line and AmigaOS4 is a part of it rather than a "re-implementation". |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 133 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 26-Jun-2004 23:21 GMT | In reply to Comment 132 (Sammy Nordström):
Are you serious man? You really miss the point of what reimplementation means.
Let me explain:
AmigaOS API -> Implemented extended and matured in the AmigaOS 1.x>3.x code base.
*RE*Implemented in AmigaOS4.0 (ie, it was rewritten, it is not a recompile of
the old code base with some features added).
The same with MorphOS, apart from the fact that they didn't have the original
source code to look at. |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 134 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Sammy Nordström on 27-Jun-2004 12:19 GMT | In reply to Comment 133 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Yes, like I've said atleast three times in this thread already, ALL VERSIONS OF THE AMIGAOS PRODUCT LINE IS A RE-IMPLEMENTATION OF IT'S PREDECESSOR. Yet you keep explaining it to me like I wouldn't understand it. Will repeating it a fourth time with bold letters make you realize that I already understand it or are you going to keep counter arguing statements that are not there? How many times do you have to bang your head into a brick wall before you realize that it hurts?
Again, yes I acknowledge the fact that both AmigaOS4 and MorphOS contains re-implementations of the AmigaOS3.x APIs. Now get this: *Neither* OS is a reimplementation of the AmigaOS product line.
The above mentioned facts are NOT contradicting each other. |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 135 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 27-Jun-2004 20:03 GMT | In reply to Comment 134 (Sammy Nordström):
You are wrong there... The AmigaOS 1.x to 3.x line was the same code base.
There were obsolete functions, the same BCPL shit and et cetera. They did NOT
rewrite the whole OS in any release prior to AmigaOS4. |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 136 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Sammy Nordström on 27-Jun-2004 21:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 135 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Re-implementation != reverse engineering
In fact, the word re-implement doesn't neccessarily have to have anything to do with programming nor operating systems to begin with. It's simply that you realize/implement something that has already been realized/implemented before once more. Wether you make use of the same means (ie source code) in order to make it happen or not is irrelevant.
And then YOU call ME clueless for beeing a programmer... :-/ |
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| Thanks to everyone involved. : Comment 137 of 137 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by perverted old man on 29-Jun-2004 21:46 GMT | In reply to Comment 50 (Anonymous):
Most people that use Morphos are perverted old men with small penises. |
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| Anonymous, there are 137 items in your selection (but only 37 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 137] |
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