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[Files] AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta releasedANN.lu
Posted on 21-Jun-2004 16:51 GMT by Henrik Mikael Kristensen82 comments
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The first official AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta is now released. It can be found at http://aweb.sunsite.dk. Read more for changelog. WHAT'S NEW

Here is an overview of the new features and major bugs fixed in this release. For a complete list in "fine detail" see the Changelog Included at the end of this document.

HTML
Support for <INS> and <DEL> tags

RENDERING
Double Buffered Rendering - Optional double buffering dramatically reduces the flickering during rendering of long table based pages.

Background Images - no longer force a complete redraw off the document, resulting in a dramatic speed up of some pages.

LAYOUT
Fixes and standardisation to the way tables are laid out, and to the way background images in tables are align mean that many more pages render "correctly".

INTERNAL IMAGEDECODER
Fix to the transparency bug in the internal gif decoder.

GOPHER SUPPORT
Improved gopher support.

CHARACTER SETS
Support for translating character sets enables pages using a different character set to be displayed.

SPLASH SCREEN
New more attractive startup screen and about requester.

AWEBPLUGINS
Fixes to a major bug in the image decoder plugins where AWeb would crash with bad memory trashing on repeated iconification.

AWEBLIBS
The aweblib version numbering has been changed, all version start from 35 as of this release. This avoids some clashes that would other wise occur with previous version of AWeb.

awebjs.aweblib has been renamed javascript.aweblib for the same reason.

JAVASCRIPT
Fundamental support for Regular Expression objects has been introduced in this version. However, the string methods using regular expressions have not yet been implemented and as most real world sites uses these methods few new sites will work, rather this is the first step on the journey.

DEVELOPER COMPILE
A compile of the developer version of AWeb (AWeb.developer) is included in the archive. It is not installed by the Install script. It allows developers and beta testers to generate extended debug info and should only be used for this purpose. It contains no extra browsing functionality.

Have Fun!

AWeb APL Development Team

AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 51 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 22-Jun-2004 19:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (greenboy):
>Why would another commercial effort in this 'hood have a better chance or more
>resolve to always actually stay in the same decade as the rest of the world as
>regards the web?

Becusue things are different now. In the mid-nineties when the 3 Amiga browsers were being actively developed, the WWW was still in its early days, it was a young and developing technology. Netscape were adding new things to HTML almost every month and web authors would use the new stuff quickly. Other things like Javascript and CSS came along too. Things were moving very fast.

Today the web is a mature technology where things move rather slowly. New technologies aren't going to appear out of the blue and be in use the next week any more. Even the new proposed XML standards won't be made reccomendations for years and won't be in widespread use for a long time after that. I don't think falling behind is an issue any more - there is plenty forewarning of what's coming, and plenty time to support it in new software.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 52 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 22-Jun-2004 20:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (smithy):
>{...} Becusue things are different now. In the mid-nineties when the 3 Amiga browsers were being actively developed -


Ah, but at least one of those claims to have commerical support even today. It hasn't been the nineties for awhile now... but I don't see that it (or the others) have even come close to supporting all these things that were being added back when "things were moving very fast". After all, paraphrasing your own words, outside web standards forces have slowed down now. But evidently, so has any commercial Will from these supposed Amiga stalwarts to consolidate before the next big web tech spurt.

From Open Source projects it's excusable if not always pleasing to hear from developers that they have a life, a career or school - and other projects too - when asking why things don't seem to be progressing so quickly. But it's a little less easy to swallow this kind of rationale from self-professed companies with PRODUCTS when one has actually paid for the privilege of their use. Then, only in very impoverished and dysfunctional neighborhoods is it considered acceptable to be seeing things slip years and years.

I'm not saying this is the case for Paihia {whose captains seem to be feeling digs before their product actually even exists to be dug at ; }. But it has been the case thus far, and I think it has a lot less to do with the speed of web standards in the outside world than it does with the commercial real estate values around the 'hood here. If someone makes a go of it and CONTIUNUES to do it well, it will be because OTHER things are also contributing to the health of the 'hood.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 53 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 22-Jun-2004 20:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (smithy):
"I don't think falling behind is an issue any more - there is plenty forewarning of what's coming, and plenty time to support it in new software."

But very little motivation, and even less if that motivation is financial. Why bother when you have nothing better to compete against. In fact, why bother if you can just find an excuse not to do it at all?

To be honest, despite Web standards being more mature and slower moving than a few years ago, I see no reason why a new browser like the Paihia one would not eventually share the same fate as the existing Amiga browsers.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 54 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Jeff on 22-Jun-2004 21:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (greenboy):
The bounty is a load of crap imo. i write software and if my employer tried to force me to develop software under those conditions like that bounty i would change jobs without a second thought, good idea but badly implemented.

Amiga browsers really need to push out of the 90s era.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 55 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 22-Jun-2004 22:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Jeff):
I tend to agree about the bounty system. To be honest, apart from raising public awareness of something it's counter-productive, specially on big projects like Amizilla. It's one of the reasons I don't think we'll ever see Amizilla.

For small one-man projects or modules, the bounty may help, but it also encourages the wrong motivation: some people will tell themselves they can't afford to work on project y because there's no bounty for it etc.

If you need money to motivate development, then the Amiga scene is the wrong place to be.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 56 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 22-Jun-2004 23:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Bill Hoggett):
Jeff and Bill,

Yeah, the more users get asked to contribute to bounties the more that novelty is going to wear off for THEM. Soon it'll feel like walking down Panhandle Row with every homeless developer holding a cardboard sign ; }

But the more level-headed developers themselves can probably regulate what it means to THEM when considering getting involved with something ambitious that also has been tagged with a bounty. Most I've talked to don't mind copping what amounts to appreciation in the form of munchies money if you divide it by the hours spent, for doing something they've considered doing free anyway. But I've also talked to people who've thought the idea of bounties could sour what was merely altruism, fun, or counting coup before.

We can all be prisoners to our perceptions. And in this 'hood it is indeed likely.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 57 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by corwin on 23-Jun-2004 02:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (dantheman):
"This myth is based on the failure of Amiga-like browser authors to implement modern-day web standards. It assumes the real reason for their failure is
because the modern-day web standards are large/complex/difficult, but in fact all these standards specify is how to draw text/lines/boxes on a
screen and various different languages to write these things. Blah blah. No big deal."

Yeah sure... bwahahahaha !

"What this myth ignores is the fact that new web standards are
released few and far between, whereas these magical browser engines and the technologies they're dependent on are released very often. And these new versions aren't implementing new web standards, they're just fixing bugs and adding user-agent features. "

Let's see, in Mozilla we had last month the final implementation of opacity (CSS3), the new SVG backend, the onbeforeunload js avent, server push document support, CSS 2 quote property, kerberos authentification...

You are sure that you didn't forget little things like XML/XHTML/RDF/SVG/XBL/Ruby/MATHML/CSS3/XUL/DOM2/XFORMS/JS2 in your equation ?
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 58 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 23-Jun-2004 03:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Fabio Alemagna):
I'll offer you a twix, will that cover your expences? :P
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 59 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 23-Jun-2004 07:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (greenboy):
@greenboy

I was thinking more along the lines that it discourages co-operation. The fewer people that work on a bounty tagged project, the fewer people to share the bounty with. So instead of getting five people co-operating on something, you get those same people working alone and in secret hoping to be the first to complete the thing themselves and get the whole pot to themselves. Result? Slowed development overall and huge amounts of duplicated work. On something like Amizilla, it's highly likely to slow development so much that it will never get done.

Then you have the problem of a developer who might be able to spare a few weeks to port a certain component that he or she may have suitable skills for, but cannot afford to stay on the project to the end. Do they get paid anything if the bounty is for the project as a whole? And if there are a number of ports in progress as outlined above, how do they know their code will be used in the "winning" project?

Bounties are OK if you have a "project manager" and work is allocated and managed, but this often does not happen in open source projects and a lot of developers don't want to be told what to develop anyway. The best large open source projects tend to be managed as if they were commercial, and it shows. And because they are managed, they also attract proper investment. But aside from collecting a bounty, is anyone actually managing the Amizilla project itself?
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 60 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Jun-2004 07:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (Bill Hoggett):
> On something like Amizilla, it's highly likely to slow development so much that
> it will never get done.

I'm not sure I agree with that, and the reason is very simple: without the bounty, there would have been no Amizilla. The previous effort of porting Mozilla to Amiga miseraibly failed, what makes you believe that this one, after years since the first try, with so much less people in the community, would succeed without a bounty offer?

Money are the incentive to work on the thing, or at least it's been the incentive to start working on it and get grouped. Perhaps now it's not the principal motive anymore, but at least you've got people working on it which you would not have if there were no bounty.

Besides, I have taken advantage of a (small) bounty myself, for something AROS-related, and I can tell you that without that bounty perhaps AROS would still not have a native gcc now.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 61 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 23-Jun-2004 08:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (Fabio Alemagna):
" I'm not sure I agree with that, and the reason is very simple: without the bounty, there would have been no Amizilla."
There still is no Amizilla, and until there is an actual release, there will continue to be no Amizilla. The same principle applies as to the Paihia browser: it doesn't count for anything until it is released and available.

I know the previous Amiga Mozilla port project failed miserably, but right now there is nothing to indicate the Amizilla project won't go the same way. I ask again: except for collecting the bounty, is anyone actually managing the project? Who is working on the code? What stage is the porting at? What are the problems and which parts have been done? Which parts have not been done and therefore require addressing? How is the work being allocated? Not being a commercial project, there's no reason why these things should be kept secret - and I don't believe they are being kept secret. If we don't hear anything about it, it's because there's nothing to hear.

I understand how you might feel having used the bounty system in AROS and benefitted yourself, but has it actually worked in speeding up AROS development, or has it just perhaps prevented AROS from stalling altogether? If AROS needs the bounties just to continue advancing at a snail's pace, what hope for it in the long run?

This is going way off-topic though, so I'd better stop right there.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 62 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Jun-2004 08:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Bill Hoggett):
Bill, at worst you can claim the bounty failed too, but your original statement was that the bounty would make things worse, and my point is that there's no worse than worst, and the worst is that nothing gets accomplished, and in the past, without the bounty, nothing got accomplished.

So the point is, the bounty can only do good, not bad to the project. Besides, when I said "there would have been no amizilla", I was talking about the project, not about the product.

As for AROS: people have jobs, studies, families and whatnot, only so much time can be allocated to AROS. Nobody really cares at what pace AROS develops, as long as it does develop, and if small bounties are what it takes to get it going, so be it. For me it was good to have that bounty because I was in need for that not big amount of money, and I would have needed to find another way to get that money - thus not spending time on AROS - had the bounty not existed.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 63 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Jun-2004 08:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (corwin):
When this Paihia team write "Blah blah. No big deal" about something that has basically only been done four times (MSHTML, Gecko, kHTML, Opera) and each time took a large dedicated team several years... Well, let's just say that sufficient ignorance renders any problem trivial until actually attempted.

I will point out that the BeOS variant of Mozilla, using solely native widgets is maintained by a tiny group of volunteers. It costs their community money (perhaps to the tune of thousands of dollars per year for build hardware) and of course it's markedly inferior to Mozilla/Linux or Mozilla/Win32 due to Be's crazy design but it's light years better than anything available for AmigaOS or Amiga-like operating systems.

HOWEVER at no time have I seen a comparable level of activity on any Amiga web browser. Either there just aren't enough developers full stop, or they're spread around working on too many projects. The commitment needed just to port Mozilla to an alien platform is perhaps one full time person or equivalent. More at first, and later a little less. If your platform doesn't have that then it can't support a modern web browser without outside sponsorship.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 64 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 23-Jun-2004 09:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Fabio Alemagna):
I think you missed the point completely. The bounty for Amizilla is for the result, not for the project on sourceforge.net. How do you know others who might be working on Mozilla ports haven't decided to work on their own rather than contribute to the sourceforge.net effort? Certainly that project doesn't seem to be forging ahead (haha!) with any great speed.

Going off-topic on the AROS issue, I know we disagree on principle there. In my view, until AROS becomes an environment for users rather than just a hobby for the developers, it will rightly be ignored by any serious developers. The developers may not care how long it takes before AROS becomes useful, but the prospective users certainly do. This is often the problem in Amiga circles: developers are so engrossed in their own world that they at best ignore and at worst disdain the needs and requirements of users.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 65 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Panagouleas on 23-Jun-2004 09:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Bill Hoggett):
Jeff from the AmiZilla team already has nspr ported to Amiga OS. Here is info on what nspr is for those that may not know.

http://www.mozilla.org/projects/nspr/

Jeff is a great coder and he has already ported other web apps (Apache to name one) to Amiga a long time ago.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 66 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 23-Jun-2004 10:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Bill Hoggett):
> I think you missed the point completely.

The feeling is mutual.

> The bounty for Amizilla is for the result, not for the project on
> sourceforge.net.
> How do you know others who might be working on Mozilla ports haven't decided
> to work on their own rather than contribute to the sourceforge.net effort?

I don't. I, for one, would work on it by myself or at most with another guy, if I had time, because I would work for the money.

However, without that money, no one would be working on it, just like no one, except the failed attempt we know about, worked on it until the amizilla bounty came along.

What you said just doesn't contraddict what I said: can you deny that without this bounty there'd be no amizilla project? If you can't, I stand correct.

> Certainly that project doesn't seem to be forging ahead (haha!) with any great
> speed.

So what? I think it's making progresses, whether they're great or not I leave to others to decide, but at least they're getting something accomplished, unlike some people who only talk and do nothing (ahem...).

> Going off-topic on the AROS issue, I know we disagree on principle there. In
> my view, until AROS becomes an environment for users rather than just a hobby
> for the developers, it will rightly be ignored by any serious developers.

I might even take offense at that. Are you implying no serious developers work on AROS? Please clarify.

> The
> developers may not care how long it takes before AROS becomes useful, but the
> prospective users certainly do.

That's why there are bounties. If users want certain things to be done faster, they can contribute with money, and get them done faster.

> This is often the problem in Amiga circles: developers are so engrossed in
> their own world that they at best ignore and at worst disdain the needs and
> requirements of users.

Again, you're being highly offsensive, and not understanding that, at tbe basis of open source development, there's developers' satisfaction, rather than users'. I don't work for the users, I work for myself, because I find it fun. If it happens to be useful for others too, so be it. No one asked you to like AROS, and indeed you do not like it, but others do like it, which proves you wrong.

However, I expect you to never ever use AROS, even if one day it becomes useful to you, because should that day come, it would come only as a result of the way AROS has been developed so far, a way which you dislike.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 67 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 23-Jun-2004 10:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Bill Hoggett):
"This is often the problem in Amiga circles: developers are so engrossed in their own world that they at best ignore and at worst disdain the needs and requirements of users."

As can be seen with startling clarity on the Voyager mailing list.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 68 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 23-Jun-2004 11:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (Fabio Alemagna):
Well, on the Amizilla front, I remain unconvinced that the project will ever be completed.

As for AROS, we shall simply have to differ. I see a lot of publicity and pushing of AROS as a viable platform, while at the same time some of the developers say they couldn't care less about the needs of the users.

By serious developers, I mean people with serious projects looking to develop them for AROS as they would for Linux or Windows or MacOS X, or even the other "Amiga-like" platforms. This isn't meant to be disrespectful to those working on AROS, but there is a world of difference between an OS which is useful, and one which is just a toy for its developers' entertainment. You must decide whether AROS is to be seen alongside MorphOS and AmigaOS4 as a serious Amiga inspired alternative OS, or whether it is to be seen as the eternal pet project of a handful of developers, and of no practical interest to anyone else. You can't have both without some compromises.

I don't discriminate against AROS because I disagree with your attitude. I judge it purely as a potential user, by considering how useful - or useless - it is to me at any given time. That is the only point of view by which I am qualified to judge.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 69 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 23-Jun-2004 11:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Don Cox):
It's a very widespread symptom amongst Amiga developers. Many of those who have remained are here because they like having their egos massaged (after all, they can't be here for the money, right?), and in some cases those egos have grown to godlike proportions. When that happens they start regarding users as subjects or followers.

There is a definite and palpable need for developers to take users' needs far more seriously than is happening at the moment. Without users a platform is nothing, no matter how many dedicated developers it has or how skilled they may be.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 70 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 23-Jun-2004 13:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Bill Hoggett):
"It's a very widespread symptom amongst Amiga developers. Many of those who have remained are here because they like having their egos massaged (after all, they can't be here for the money, right?), and in some cases those egos have grown to godlike proportions. When that happens they start regarding users as subjects or followers."

Problem is, if the developer is making no money from the program, he is doing the user a favour if he spends ten hours coding a requested feature or fixing a bug. Nothing but sales of a great deal more hardware will fix this, and we know how likely that is.


"There is a definite and palpable need for developers to take users' needs far more seriously than is happening at the moment. Without users a platform is nothing, no matter how many dedicated developers it has or how skilled they may be."

Well, Deron added a feature to Pagestream that I have been asking him for for several years, so I'm happy at the moment. Now I have started campaigning for another needed feature.

I find the hardest thing is to get programmers to code for the Amiga OS - that is, to include font and screen requesters and a full ARexx port. What's the use of writing for a non-standard OS if you don't take advantage of the special features it offers?

One big problem is staying power. Somebody starts coding a program, thinking he will have a killer in a couple of months. Four years later, it is still only half done and rather buggy, and he loses interest. Perhaps if there was money coming in, things might be different.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 71 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Framiga on 23-Jun-2004 17:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Anonymous):
mhhh . ."simple web browsing" . . . are you in habit to perform "acrobatic web browsing"? It is a new Olimpic sector?
Never satisfied . . .never :-(
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 72 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Framiga on 23-Jun-2004 17:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (Fabio Alemagna):
a really good improvement, Fabio.
Keep it up :-)
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 73 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 24-Jun-2004 05:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Fabio Alemagna):
Mr. Fabio Alemagna wrote:

>Is there any amiga browser that supports CSS
>/in any acceptable form) at the moment?
>
>This is a genuine question.

Actually Emacs/W3 performs the task...

See recent discussion on ANN here:

Emacs/W3 a textual browser for EMACS with CSS support

It is only text based, it is old and dated, but it handles CSS (with some support of CSS 2.0).

I think this means that it is capable to change organization of the text aspect, justification of the frames and the colors of text and background...


>Emacs/W3 is a full-featured web browser, written entirely in Emacs-Lisp,
>that supports all the bells and whistles you will find in use on the web today,
>including frames, tables, stylesheets, and much more.
>Emacs/W3 runs on most major operating systems,
>including almost any flavor of Unix, Windows NT/95, AmigaDOS, OS/2, and VMS.


it is a GNU project so the code (all in lisp language) is available as example to all they want to implement such features on Amiga also...
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 74 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 24-Jun-2004 06:11 GMT
I wonder if it could be possible to use AReXX to parse CSS data.

The browser when exploring sites will find CSS file...

...Browser passes CSS file infos to Arexx...

...Arexx stores CSS informations about different site aspects...

...then starts necessaries steps to change current site aspect by modifing browser features it can handle...

...finally Arexx prompt with a pop-up button (the user could push) that CSS modifies are available...

...user push with mouse the button, and Arexx modifies browser values of colors, tabs, frames and aspect.

Is it possible?

Please, tell me that it is possible...

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa... (I am an afraid child now...) please, tell me that it is possible.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 75 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 24-Jun-2004 08:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Raffaele):
"I wonder if it could be possible to use AReXX to parse CSS data."

It's _possible_ but it would not be a good way to do it. ARexx is a slow interpreted language, best used for linking together functions which are coded in a compiled language. Object-oriented web display is not what it is suited to.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 76 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Henrik Mikael Kristensen on 24-Jun-2004 11:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (Don Cox):
Also CSS can do things you can't do in straight HTML, such as overlays, floating boxes and complex table frames. You'll need to upgrade the engine to handle this.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 77 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 24-Jun-2004 13:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (Don Cox):
Mr. Don Cox wrote:

R.>"I wonder if it could be possible to use AReXX to parse CSS data."

>It's _possible_ but it would not be a good way to do it.
>ARexx is a slow interpreted language, best used for linking together
>functions which are coded in a compiled language.
>Object-oriented web display is not what it is suited to.

I know it. But I think it can be useful on static CSS based pages... not the ones with "floating boxes" as stated in the previous message by Henrik Mikael Kristensen.

Just into the pages which have different aspects when CSS is enabled...

...or those which have a CSS based menu with which you change aspetcts and color.


Think of this procedure:

Just load any internet web page with the browser...

Meanwhile loading it with the browser in "raw HTML format"...

...thanks to Amiga multitasking capabilities, Arexx has all the time to accomplish needed steps to prepare CSS modifications to the browser screen.

Yes, the user at the beginning will see the page in "raw HTML"

BUT

When Arexx will end its scheduled work, then it will prompt the user that site has CSS, and ask the user if he want to adjust the browser screen to fit and show the page with CSS data...

And the user will apply it only if he wants to...

I know it is only a replacement of a REAL CSS BASED BROWSER...

But in the meanwhile that new browsers for Amiga will take place, it could be a good substitute...

(And also an Arexx program could be also easily ported to any Amiga/MOS Browser which has Arexx port and obviously mainly to such browsers which allow Arexx to perform graphic changements to their graphic screens).
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 78 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 24-Jun-2004 13:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Raffaele):
Yeah. And there's a guy who is writing an arexx script that'll turn CED into a full-blown Office Suite. Haven't heard from him for about five years though ; }
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 79 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 24-Jun-2004 15:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (greenboy):
He'll have it done in "2 more weeks(tm)".
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 80 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Jun-2004 23:22 GMT
AWeb doesn't even seem to support cookies very well...
But it does make for the best gopher browser for the Amiga :)
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 81 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Henrik Mikael Kristensen on 25-Jun-2004 11:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Raffaele):
Well, it's an idea, and I of course respect that. :-)

We even discussed such an option on the mailing list and found that implementing it will still require changes in the engine and the process of implementing a CSS interpreter in ARexx is probably close to being as complex as doing the real thing, but would just run 10 times slower.

Even when looking at equivalent features from HTML and CSS, those in CSS have greater granularity and subfeatures in for example fonts.
And the only parts of CSS that are barely copyable in HTML are fonts and background colors. Barely. And people rarely use CSS for those two things alone.

The bottom line is, even if you try, it's not likely that AWeb will be able to display faked CSS pages even close to W3C standards without actually modifying the engine. I wouldn't use a browser that spends 10-15 seconds to produce a half-assed CSS lookalike page. No. :-)

Granted, we could do like Microsoft and support a limited subset of CSS1 (just even more limited), but AWeb would not be a browser you would base your CSS code on.

Still, you're welcome to give it a go, if you think it's possible to do this. We'll gladly accept your code and include it in the AWeb distribution if it actually works.
AWeb 3.5 APL Lite Beta released : Comment 82 of 82ANN.lu
Posted by Henrik Mikael Kristensen on 25-Jun-2004 11:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Anonymous):
Cookies are terribly broken in AWeb. We're still trying to figure out what the bugs actually are. :-)

As for Gopher, this was improved by someone who actually hosts a Gopher site. He was annoyed by the lack of features, submitted a few patches and they were included after inspection and tests.

It's an example of how you can help change single things you are annoyed with in AWeb, but aren't necessarily a part of what is planned by the main developers of AWeb.
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