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[Files] OS4 native Quake releasedANN.lu
Posted on 28-Jun-2004 11:24 GMT by miksuh41 comments
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Frank Wille has uploaded his OS4 version of quake to his homepage.

http://devnull.owl.de/~frank/quake_e.html
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 1 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 28-Jun-2004 09:28 GMT
Discussion about it is here:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1545
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 2 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 28-Jun-2004 10:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (miksuh):
Err... A program available to the public that no one but betatesters can use. Just like PowerIcons for OS4.

Highly resembles to sdlgl games on MorphOS. :) Will there be an update to the pre-release, or will it remain this way until the final version is released?
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 3 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 28-Jun-2004 11:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Emeric SH):
I don't see any reason why you should not release stuff if you can, even if not all users can play with it YET. I can't understand why you should wait until there is update for the OS4. Sure it is better that those who can port stuff do so now, isn't it ?

If you port stuff now, then it is already available when OS4 update/final OS4 is available to normal users.

If you have access to newest OS4 beta it would be waste of time to not port your stuff and release it when it is ready.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 4 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Tryo on 28-Jun-2004 11:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (miksuh):
To quote Xeron: "Developers don't need a mediaplayer"

So why do developers need a 3d shooter?
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 5 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 28-Jun-2004 11:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Emeric SH):
AFAIK there might be some updates before OS4 is released, atleast for the critical stuff.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 6 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 28-Jun-2004 11:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Tryo):
Why not ?
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 7 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Tryo on 28-Jun-2004 11:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (miksuh):
Because it is not needed to develop software.

Are arguments always twisted to fit the situation among aw.net users?
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 8 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 28-Jun-2004 11:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (miksuh):
"I don't see any reason why you should not release stuff if you can, even if not all users can play with it YET. I can't understand why you should wait until there is update for the OS4. Sure it is better that those who can port stuff do so now, isn't it ?"

Pardon me, it's the exact same situation with MorphOS, so I'm not against porting, just noticed the similarity. So I'm a bit puzzled, what's your problem.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 9 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 28-Jun-2004 11:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Tryo):
WTF??

So you are saying that developers should not develop software which is not needed if you develop software ? You should forget everything else ?

I think that would sound quite crazy. The whole goal is to have new OS4 native software, who said you should develop only development tools or something like that ?

Noone is saying that you should not develop eg. movie player for the OS4 because that is not needed to develop software.

Sure movie player is NO needed in the pre-release CD, but that does not mean you can't start developing one !! Actually if you remember, there already was a screenshot of OS4 native movieplayer. Riva author is developing it.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 10 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 28-Jun-2004 11:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Emeric SH):
No problem. It's just my opinion that sure you should release something if you can. It's just good that there is more OS4 native stuff available when OS4 is ready.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 11 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 28-Jun-2004 11:27 GMT
Mind you, it's a bit puzzling to have a _developer_ pre-release, which is full of out of date stuff and the _developers_ are those who don't have access to the components they need to develop for.

But seemingly there are developers, who has access to it, unrestricted by the limits of the pre-release. Now, this developer pre-release is what? Is it really a developer pre-release intended for developers, or a crippled beta for the ordinary users? Or there are more access levels for developers concerning OS4?
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 12 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 28-Jun-2004 11:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Emeric SH):
I aggree it that there should be update for the pre-release, and i'm quite sure there will be sooner or later.

But sure it's understandable that betatesters have newer OS4 that what is in the pre-release CD. That CD was made awhile ago and OS4 development has not stopped, so sure betatesters have access to newer OS4 files.

You can't avoid situation like that, betatesters will always have access to newer OS4 than others. Even if you create FTP-site for the updates, I'm quite sure that betatesters would have newer files. Betatesters test the software before it is released.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 13 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 28-Jun-2004 11:34 GMT
So all things quake considered.... it must have been writen in very standard compliant C/C++.... as its apparently really easy to port....
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 14 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 28-Jun-2004 12:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Tryo):
Errr... that quote was in response to people asking why there was no movie player on the Pre-CD. I was not suggesting that it would be stupid to have it on the CD. In fact, there was quite a lot of contributed software on the CD that isn't necessary to develop software.

My point was merely that the lack of a media player was not a critical omission for a developer pre-release.

But, not only are you taking my quote entirely out of context, you're completely ignoring the fact that the Quake exe isn't even on the damn CD*. I never said anything about what people could develop once they had access to OS4. It would be stupid to only develop tools for software development!

Just FYI, in future, it might be an idea to think before you post, so as to avoid coming across as a complete idiot.

*not that i'd have a problem with it being on there if it was.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 15 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 28-Jun-2004 12:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Peter Gordon):
And yes, I do think its a bit daft to post JUST this version of Quake, when there was a previous port that worked fine on the pre-release, although it did have a bug that made it take longer than usual to load levels. The exe posted on Franks homepage loads them instantly, its just a shame it requires a newer elf library.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 16 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 28-Jun-2004 13:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Emeric SH):
No, its just a release so that developers who aren't on the beta testing program get something they can use to start developing apps for OS4.

Frank Wille just happens to be both a betatester of OS4, as well as a developer of OS4 software.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 17 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Tryo on 28-Jun-2004 17:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Peter Gordon):
The point still remains: Developers don't need mediaplayers nor quake to develop apps.

Obviously you just wanted to troll not caring at all for the discussion at hand.

Next!
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 18 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 28-Jun-2004 17:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Tryo):
OK. So developers don't need media players or Quake to develop apps. I completely agree with this statement.

What has this got to do with anything at all?
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 19 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Jun-2004 18:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Tryo):
just use their machines to develop? hardly. you've got to have some recreational time!

what? use another computer for that? but then you dont think of the things to fix!

and the pure betatesters need to test things to


as it is, games and mediaplayers really stress parts of the system that simple things (eg preference programs and image tools) dont touch - such as USB input, gfx drivers, sound drivers, HD attributes etc


YOUR POINT?
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 20 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 28-Jun-2004 18:19 GMT
There is now a version online that works with the pre-release.

Quake download page: http://devnull.owl.de/~frank/quake.html
Prerelease friendly version: http://devnull.owl.de/~frank/quakeOS4old.gz
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 21 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 28-Jun-2004 21:25 GMT
It's quite obvious that the "Developer pre-release" is not meant for
developers at all, but that it is in fact a "User pre-release".
Otherwise it wouldn't have that fancy cover, and it would be the
version used by developers, and there would be regular (weekly
or so) updates online.

The reason why they called it "Developer" when it's not is probably
that they thought it would be a good excuse for why it's not nearly
ready for users yet, so that they can keep the users waiting for a few
years more even though they have a long way to go. Now that this
pre-release is out, a lot of people suddenly think that all this
quite basic stuff that is missing, and will surely take at least a
year to finish, will somehow appear within a month or two (even
though I recall statements by some of the Friedens that this is not
what will happen).

Of course, some of us remember a lot of those statements from Hyperion
people about how "there is only one chance to make a first impression"
and how more advanced OS4 is than MorphOS but how they wouldn't
release anything until it was perfect, and similar bullshit. But
anyway.. now that this release is out, I think everyone can judge for
themselves what they want, and we can ignore all this bullshit (from
all sides, of course). Actually I don't blame Hyperion for releasing
OS4 in its current state, it's the logical thing to do - but I would
have preferred if they'd been a bit more upfront about all this, now
and during all these years.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 22 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 28-Jun-2004 22:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Johan Rönnblom):
Exactly what I've been thinking. AFAIK the AOS4 pre-release is available to anyone who bought an AmigaOne, and I believe it will be bundled with all future sales until the "actual release" is finished. There isn't any "developers-only" requirement; plenty of people have bought the hardware who aren't developers by any stretch. Also about the packaging and the irony in view of Ben Hermann's criticism of the "public beta" MorphOS, your description is right on, in my opinion.

-- gary_c
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 23 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 29-Jun-2004 05:08 GMT
I have made an attempt to recompiling the source code for pre/developer version of AmigaOS40, using MorphOS makefile by modifying it, and using 68k/GCC Makefile as reference, I mostly made it work, TCP/IP stack failed to compile whit Roadshow, so I changed one the function to return failure, IGfxBase IExec base I just removed from the source code, changed OpenLibrary() to IExec -> OpenLibrary, I then run inn to trouble when trying to compile vid_cgx.h or some thing, it looks like the header files provided whit the SDK for cyber graphics is not complete, so I probably need to rewrite it, so it becomes support for P96, I do not know how write programs for Picasso96 I think it as easy as Cyber graphics, I have no experience whit any GFX sub system on Amiga (The only gfx system I know is SDL), of all objects compiled. I then looked at some #define REG inn Amigacompiler.h I just removed it from all the files, I do not Se any point inn using it on newly defined functions. After all this modifications you should be able to compile about 90% of all modules like me.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 24 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Metamiwoo on 29-Jun-2004 06:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (gary_c):
You guys are amazing. Do you really think that "plenty" of non-developpers have bought AmigaOne ? Then they are really really stupid as Eyetech and Hyperion have always said AmigaOne was for developpers-only (or Lunix users).
I am an amiga user, I want a new (finished) AmigaOS... well I'm waiting. I'm sure that when Hyperion will sell AmigaOS4 to end-user, it will be finished.
Anyway, thank you, it was a good laugh.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 25 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 29-Jun-2004 06:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Metamiwoo):
What's the actual difference between the OS4 and Pre-release version of Quake?
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 26 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 29-Jun-2004 06:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (gary_c):
Just because there is no "developers only" requirement to get hold of the pre-release, doesn't mean that the point of the pre-release is not so that people can start developing apps.

Also, I don't notice anyone who has it being quite as upset about it as people who don't. Which is interestng.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 27 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 29-Jun-2004 06:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Emeric SH):
The ELF format of the executable, and there might be a bug in the pre-release one (if its the same exe that I used to use) where levels take longer to load than they should.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 28 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 29-Jun-2004 08:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Metamiwoo):
Define "plenty"? I don't think a lot of people have bought an A1, but
of those who have, I think only a small percentage are developers.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 29 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jun-2004 13:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Johan Rönnblom):
Based on what ? Sure on any platform most users are not developers. That includes windows and morphos too. But it seems to me that lot's of MOS guys are now trying to make it look like all/most amiga developers are using pegasos+mos and are not interested about OS4, which is not true. I think the real situation is about 50-50 between OS4 and MOS.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 30 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jun-2004 13:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Tryo):
Developers maybe don't need those, but so what ? I can't see what your point is. Developers do not create software just for the other developers, but for the normal users who are not developers.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 31 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jun-2004 13:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Johan Rönnblom):
I can't understand why youi think like that ? Do you think that "fancy cover" makes any difference ? If pre-release would have been released in ugly case it would be more developer pre-release ?

Don't forget that there is SDK in the CD. If OS4 pre would be aimed just for the users then SDk sure would not be included. Why should it if it is not aimed for the developers ?

If you would think things before talking you would see that it is aimed for the developers, because OS4 needs software before it is released.

If normal users can use it too, so what ? Maybe some normal users get excited and start coding for the OS4 no matter if they have done any coding earlier.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 32 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 29-Jun-2004 18:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anonymous):
Anon (31): Simple. If it had been a developer-release they would not
have made the developers wait almost two months more just to print
some fancy CD's. And in fact we know that the developers weren't kept
waiting like that, they got other versions - and they still do.

As for including the SDK, sorry but that does not make anyone using
the CD a developer. It doesn't even make anyone firing up that very
copy of gcc a developer. To be a developer you actually need to
develop something. AmigaOS 1.3 had AmigaBasic included, that didn't
make it a developer release. I'd say the reason for including the SDK
is that some users would like to play around with it, and let's face
it, there's not that much else available to play around with yet.


Anon (28): Hey, it's just my guess. I'd say there are maybe 300 people
having bought an A1 and maybe 40 of those could qualify as developers.
As for MorphOS, it's easier as sales figures have been released every
now and then, and you could also browse through sites like MorphZone
to count the number of people who are releasing stuff. So my guess
would be about four times the A1/OS4 numbers.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 33 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 29-Jun-2004 20:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Johan Rönnblom):
There are more AmigaOS sites the MorphOS sites, most AmigaOS fans are over at amigaworld.net and not ANN, if you like to read about the activity going on whit AmigaOS40 the read news group items at amigaworld.net it there all the developer talke is, ann is just a spam site, where folks like you and me get to getter to argue about nothing,
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 34 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 29-Jun-2004 20:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Peter Gordon):
Nice just tested it pre version, I think it runs to fast on my AmigaOne, now I can get back to gui devlopment for AmigaOS40, and start thinking about PublicPaint again?..
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 35 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 30-Jun-2004 08:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Johan Rönnblom):
...

The Earlybirds were targetted at early adapters & developers (plus the AOS4 development team).
The dev Prerelease is aimed at all the people who bought the Earlybird systems, but there are also developers/betatesters who have access to newer modules then those on the CD, afterall, before they place these up for download they want to be sure they work.
The Prerelease is aimed at developers, it's not a public beta, and people who own the prerelease don't get to act as betatesters.

You are making no sense whatsoever, and even if you did make any sense, it would still be a moot point, it's irelevant.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 36 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 30-Jun-2004 09:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Johan Rönnblom):
"As for including the SDK, sorry but that does not make anyone using
the CD a developer."

Paint tools doesn't make you an artist but they are suited at those...

But maybe, only maybe it would be easier if you explain the world what the feck would make by your definition a real 'AmigaOS 4 developer-release '?
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 37 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 30-Jun-2004 09:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Johan Rönnblom):
'I'd say there are maybe 300 people having bought an A1 and maybe 40 of those could qualify as developers.'

I could say many things... but I guess we all have figures on our head, from what I heard A1 pass the 1000 mark, but could be wrong though, now 300!? Never see that number around, as for developers, well your figure (40) sounds a lot more with the developers that actually *made* AOS4... don't forget also the developers who make software for both AmigaOS and MorphOS...
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 38 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 30-Jun-2004 22:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (pixie):
There's no clear cut definition of "developer release" but I would
think there are some things which would signify that something is a
"developer release":

1) No general availability - only for developers.
2) Very frequent updates.
3) No marketing, packaging, etc.
4) It's the version actually used by actual developers.

However, note that I'm not saying that a user release can't be used
for development, which you seem to imply. But I think the criteria
above show that
a) The so-called "Developer pre-release" is not a developer release
and
b) There are in fact other releases, which actually are developer
releases.

Anyway, none of this has any great significance, I'm not complaining
about anything important, it's just a funny thing how they try to
twist people's perception of what it is. It's a pre-release, because
they simply aren't even nearly ready but they still wanted to give
something out. It's perhaps not very slick or professional, but I
don't mind. The Amiga community is not very big and it's better to
please those few of us who are still interested, than trying to keep
some kind of smoke screen up.



As for over 1000 A1's sold, please give me a source. The most "solid"
official information I've heard was when Alan Redhouse claimed that
the figure was higher than their low estimate of the Pegasos sales
figure, but lower than their high estimate of Pegasos sales.
(you could check it up from the AmiGBG recordings if you want the
precise quote). Judging by the stuff I've heard from Eyetech and their
conspiracy theories, this matches well with my 300 figure - but of
course, it's just a guess, and if someone has real info, please share
it.

As for developers, note that I am much more picky here than some.
For example, you might have noticed that MorphOS developer connection
has over 600 registered "developers". But of course this is only
people who have shown interest, probably most of them have downloaded
the SDK etc. It doesn't mean they are actually developing something -
probably more people are just playing around, or not being very
active, than those which have some realistic and useful project going.
That's not to say some of those who are just playing around won't end
up developing something real - and becoming developers - it's just
that from my perspective, it's more interesting to know how many are
actually working on something right now.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 39 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Controller on 02-Jul-2004 07:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Johan Rönnblom):
Developer release or not. It definitely is a developer release because Hyperion say’s it is.

Why dos it have to for fill YOUR criteria’s to be a developer release?

If Hyperion says it is a developer release and you are able to use it for development, I can’t see why it is not at developer release.

As for the discussion about what computer is the best selling Pegasus or AmigaOne and the discussion about what platform Amiga or MorpOS have most developers, I will just say who cares. It sounds more like children discussing who’s father is the strongest!

The most important part must be that both platforms now has a OS out to the users – developers or not.

Why not respect that some prefer MorpOS over AmigaOS and the other way around.

Instead it would be much better to concentrate on getting new software to both platforms.

Controller
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 40 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 03-Jul-2004 09:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Controller):
You disagree with my criteria? Fine. Please tell me why, and what
criteria you think would be more accurate. But no, Hyperion do not
define reality. If they say an elephant is an apple, that the A1 can
transfer 1.5GB/s or that the DMA problems are not related to the
Articia, then that does not make it true automatically.


As for the number of A1's sold, well "Metamiwoo" asked a question in
comment 24 and I tried to answer best I could.
OS4 native Quake released : Comment 41 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Hot Rod on 07-Jul-2004 19:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Johan Rönnblom):
It is a developer pre-release to me and everyone who has bought an A1. I can develope on it and there are loads of documents on it. A complete SDK.

Atricia isn't buggy. It works. If the MOS-developers couldn't make it work it means that they aren't competent enought, nothing else.

I haven't read any sales-numbers but I've read that more A1's have been sold than P1 and P2 together. Not *much* more but more. The numbers for both are over 1.000. The source that I got it from I trust. What you and some other babies write doesn't matter to me. Grow up.
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