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[News] Online Pegasos Sales are back!!!ANN.lu
Posted on 13-Jul-2004 02:56 GMT by JKD157 comments
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BBRV announced on MorphZone that online ordering is back!
Morphzone Forums Steve BBRV announced on MorphZone that online ordering is back!
Morphzone Forums Check out the store, follow the Store link on: PegasosPPC.com
Thanks,
Steve
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 101 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Jul-2004 00:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Neko):
<You'll get your Pegasos when there are Pegasos spare for you to get.>

Yeah, that just make you want to go to their site and order one.
"ah, you'll get it when you get it! Thanks for the cash."
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 102 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Jul-2004 00:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Neko):
Amiga took your money - $50 of it for some newsletter and a t-shirt - and
they never provided the t-shirt, and the prize draw turned out to be illegal!

Not paying employees and leaving them broke barely able to make ends meet, isn't either!

At least Genesi and Amiga, Inc. now have something in common.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 103 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Jul-2004 00:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Agima):
" not with a couple of guys building motherboards one at a time, on 'First Come First Served' basis, out in a shed somewhere being bundled by people that drool all over the boards."

Well, someone has to support the European Cottage Industry! :)
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 104 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Jul-2004 00:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Fabio Alemagna):
From day one...
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 105 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Jul-2004 00:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Agima):
They've moved on to snowballing.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 106 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 14-Jul-2004 02:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Amon_Re):
Well, they already called me a red troll, it would be fun if you would join the
club! :-)
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 107 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 14-Jul-2004 02:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Anonymous):
He was talking about *FREE* boards you idiot...
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 108 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 14-Jul-2004 05:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (hooligan/dcs):
>Genesi is a laughing stock with wanker speakers (Neko, Hooligan etc)...

Hang on a minute. Hooligan/DCS is simply a satisfied Pegasos user with genuine interests in AmigaOne/OS4. I haven't seen him troll here and he's also quick to pay complements to Hyperion/Eyetech or criticize Gensei when he sees fit. I think you owe him an apology there...

Were you perhaps confusing him with Nic Sallin/Stallin/whatever (spelling?)?
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 109 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 14-Jul-2004 05:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Darrin):
Yeah, right. Tell me you weren't influenced just a little bit by this. ;-) I always wondered what happened to that guy who starred in CHIPS. I guess now we know....

-- gary_c
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 110 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 14-Jul-2004 07:46 GMT
I bet there is 1MW/h of wasted energy in this thread.


Other than that:

It's good to see that pegasos sales are higher than Genesi (current) capability to produce them (<200 units per week?).

It means that sooner or later KMOS & Hyperion will see ODW (or what ever it is) as a good target HW platform for AOS4_with_USBdongle.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 111 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Jul-2004 08:33 GMT
So how many Freescale offices are there? 3? 4?

Did they pay for them?

Who did the thousands from October go to?

What about IBM Japan?

Is it all just word games and slight of hand?
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 112 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 14-Jul-2004 09:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (gary_c):
FOTFL!!!

How do you know that isn't him!!!
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 113 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 14-Jul-2004 10:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Darrin):
Thank you for this free insult.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 114 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 14-Jul-2004 11:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (Darrin):
I don't know it isn't him. Maybe it is! ;-)
-- gary_c
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 115 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV0rl0n on 14-Jul-2004 12:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (JKD):
>>>I figure you;d already had your answers about the blades etc. I think we know the truth their. The answers are out there regarding BSD also..I don't care to repeat here.

Do we? What truth do we know there? In terms of the BSD, I take it you were not on the end of communications stating there were 18 sales men hitting the road today? No. But then how could a company put 18 salesmen out when the OS for the firewal ain't there, the hardware does'nt work, due to the OS issues, and the partner has long since *gone*.

>>>I just think you saw this as an opportunity to continue harrasing Matt based purely on your personal vendatta and nothing to do with the subject matter at hand. You already had an answer from one of the demoscene coders regarding free boards for the scene. You already have a satisfactory answer regarding why there are (currently) no more free boards.

I think one of the things you've missed here, is this little vendetta is'nt me hitting on poor old Matt. Since I dared to question such things as Blades, Firewalls, I have had no little abuse and sullying from their side. And if you wish to take the subject at any depth, feel free to read my posts elsewhere, you may be surprised at what I and Matt said in these recent and less recent months, and whom was actually right/being truthful. The fact is I don't allow Genesi free reign to bullshit, and that annoys the shit out of them. And its personal and will remian so until the *joke* job offered to me while they lay off and shit on others is both recinded and fully apologised for.

>>>>So far as I can tell, Matt's only current source of income (Genesi related) is the mark-up he makes on selling Peg boards.

Fine, but he did'nt have any good reason to go and smear Christian Kemp, ShopIP, The OPENBSD guys, Theo, Me, ANYONE else for his employer or other reasons, while at the same time lying outragiously. If you can show me employees who regard this as good or normal behaviour in business, lead the way, I'm listening.

>>>>>I don't know Matt personally very well, I have met him only once..witnessed his disastrous Amiwest presentation and seen some of his more 'choice' comments in the forums and have occasionally accused him of being immature...what I see recently is that his behaviour is changing, becoming more mature...realising that what he says might have an impact larger than the range of the sound of his own voice.

Then you've missed something. Perhaps you like I should monitor what he says most carefully.

>>>>This final point brings into focus the behaviour of all parties concerned in the forums (fora?)...wisely, company CEOs, COOs, lawyers, whatever have stopped taking part in these 'debates' realising fully that there can really be no winners and a good number of people here are waiting for them to trip (or deliberately seeking to trip them up) just for self gratification or a mis-placed sense of 'justice.'

Yeah, but in this case that has be replaced by Neko, a person who knows little, knows even less about whats going on than anyone would believe, and who goes out on a limb on a continual basis making enourmous porkies at the same time.

If you feel Genesi has delivered anything Neko said they would, or he used while rubbishing anyone else, step up or step off.


Steve

P.S. And for all you conspiracy theorists out there, I am not, never have been and never will be on the Genesi payroll and I do not get private messages from 'the powers that be' to go out and 'defend the cause.'

Never claimed you were, but either show me they paid people they owe monies to, or show me the blades, or show me SOMETHING, because right now, it seems you're happy to accept any bullshit anywhere, anytime.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 116 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 14-Jul-2004 13:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (AdmV0rl0n):
I think one of the things you've missed here, is this little vendetta is'nt me hitting on poor old Matt. Since I dared to question such things as Blades, Firewalls, I have had no little abuse and sullying from their side.

"Dared to question"? After this topic was discussed to death at Moobunny, does anybody really care to hear your or anyone else's opinions about it again? I don't think so. It seems to be your pet obsession, along with your predictable responses to just about anything Matt says.

And if you wish to take the subject at any depth, feel free to read my posts elsewhere, you may be surprised at what I and Matt said in these recent and less recent months, and whom was actually right/being truthful. The fact is I don't allow Genesi free reign to bullshit, and that annoys the shit out of them. And its personal and will remian so until the *joke* job offered to me while they lay off and shit on others is both recinded and fully apologised for.

Bill Buck already explained to you that the "job offer" was just an abstract question about "would you be interested". It wasn't an offer, actually; that was your misunderstanding then and even after he corrected you on Moobunny you can't seem to let go of the idea; I guess it is satisfying on some level, or a good tale for people who don't know the whole story already. There must still be a couple of them left somewhere.

Fine, but he did'nt have any good reason to go and smear Christian Kemp, ShopIP, The OPENBSD guys, Theo, Me, ANYONE else for his employer or other reasons, while at the same time lying outragiously. If you can show me employees who regard this as good or normal behaviour in business, lead the way, I'm listening.

He smeared the ShopIP guys after what they tried to pull? Where? I'd like to read that. And Theo? Great, what's the URL? I need to add it to my OpenBSD wrap-up collection. Seriously, point the direction of the URLs, please. I've been trying to get statements from all sides.

[...]

Never claimed you were, but either show me they paid people they owe monies to, or show me the blades, or show me SOMETHING, because right now, it seems you're happy to accept any bullshit anywhere, anytime.

I don't think people who have gotten paid owe you any documentation. Even people who were partially paid probably wouldn't want to bother. The blades haven't been manufactured. That was explained to you at least once before. It's easy to see why bbrv has backed off these forums, with people being shown things and having things explained to them numerous times and still the same tired accusations are made again and again by the same people.

-- gary_c
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 117 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 14-Jul-2004 13:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (gary_c):
@gary_c

Two questions:

1. Do you think that Bill Buck has ever lied purposely to this community at anytime for his or his company's own gain?

2. Do you think Bill Buck has acted immorally in regard to the Amiga community at anytime for his or his company's own gain?


???
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 118 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Framiga on 14-Jul-2004 13:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Neko):
money?. . .but is not a great problem Neko. You (as ambassador of Genesi-DCE) could use the thousand and thousand and thousand of EURs, of our Amiga DCE board already paid and NEVER returned . . . where is the problem?
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 119 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Jul-2004 13:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (gary_c):
"Dared to question"? After this topic was discussed to death at Moobunny, does anybody really care to hear your or anyone else's opinions about it again? I don't think so. It seems to be your pet obsession, along with your predictable responses to just about anything Matt says."

Conveniently forgetting your own obsession with "shell games" at KMOS.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 120 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV0rl0n on 14-Jul-2004 13:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (gary_c):
Gary C wrote some:
Snip.

did you actually read the full history of the Blades issue on Moobunny?
You are aware that I was talking with Bill on Email at the same time as Neko was outragiously lying on Moobunny, and he did not know I was talking to Bill nor the depth of conversation. The truth is that at those moments, I had exchanged and understood more information about the 'Blade Project' than Neko did? Neko later lied and painted a different picture about the email/job stuff, no surprise there. BBRV has posted the full details about the Job offer, it is Neko's version of events that is under question, Not BBRV and Not mine.

To then have this idiot contractor bullshit and lie was quite interesting, given I was talking to Bill between the postings. You are aware that Bill has a different take on the job offer story. If I wanted to know about the blade stuff, I would talk to Bill, which oddly enough thats exactly what I was doing at the time, OR I would talk with Bplan, I most certainly would'nt be talking to Neko.

>>>>Bill Buck already explained to you that the "job offer" was just an abstract question about "would you be interested". It wasn't an offer, actually; that was your misunderstanding then and even after he corrected you on Moobunny you can't seem to let go of the idea; I guess it is satisfying on some level, or a good tale for people who don't know the whole story already. There must still be a couple of them left somewhere.

At this stage, I'm pondering putting the whole email history on record in public. The biggest issue you left out in your little carefully worded paragraph is that Neko and Bill have quite different views about said 'offer'. I don't really care about if it was tentative or not, there are two facts which make it personal.

1. They did this while at the same time as they shafted people. Wether I was interested or not seems to cloud the issue of if I had said yes, there wass'nt actually an money to pay me or anyone else IF THEY OR I were interested. That really is the salient point. Do you know of employers who make such offers when they already know there is no money to pay someone, AND are laying of or messing their current employees around?

2. Neko a member (and that only as a contracter) of said company has changed the statement, he claims the email was sent as a 'joke', differing completely from BBRV's official statement. Either way, I'm not going to really tolerate people who do these things here or elsewhere. Bear in mind, Neko at no point whatsoever was involved in the email exchange with Bill, he merely started a bullshit campaign.

>>>>He smeared the ShopIP guys after what they tried to pull? Where? I'd like to read that. And Theo? Great, what's the URL? I need to add it to my OpenBSD wrap-up collection. Seriously, point the direction of the URLs, please. I've been trying to get statements from all sides.

Indeed he did and has. In terms of statements, you seem to know Moobunny well enough, go and dig them up. I am very sure you are aware of what has been said by the OpenBSD people, I have a nice series of E-mails with Theo, and I'm sure you are aware *exactly* about what ShopIP have said. As an aside, anyone who questioned the Genesi/OpenSBD/ShopIP thing when it was publicised was well and trully sullied.

>>>>I don't think people who have gotten paid owe you any documentation. Even people who were partially paid probably wouldn't want to bother. The blades haven't been manufactured. That was explained to you at least once before. It's easy to see why bbrv has backed off these forums, with people being shown things and having things explained to them numerous times and still the same tired accusations are made again and again by the same people.

I have not asked for any from said people. Nor from partially paid people. In terms of the Blades, I know exactly where I stand, where I stood, and that I was 100% spot on.

BBRV has backed off because in truth he is probably really busy. Secondly, a fair chunk of plans are in ruins, some not through their fault. You need to carefully assess what I have said. If Neko says Genesi are doing something, I attack Neko in the first Instance, but if BBRV can't or won't tell this lying shit to keep doing real work rather than bullshitting and lying in online locations, then thats going to get Genesi caught up in it.

There are no blades yet.
The firewalls and relations with ShopIP are gone.
The partnership with OpenBSD is in tatters
There are no G5 / Motherboards rolling of the Genesi/Bplan production lines, all supposedly within 6 months (8 months ago now)

I could go on and on with other statements made by this so called member of Genesi. None of which have turned out to be right, correct, on time, or anything else. Allied to such statements have been abuse, and no end of smearing.

The issue is Neko not Genesi in the first instance, but if his job role is online bullshitter, thats their issue, he is their employee.

AdmV
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 121 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by minator on 14-Jul-2004 14:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (AdmV0rl0n):
>>Freescale are ordering boards in the long term. You're going to have so much
>>egg on your face in the coming months, I can guarantee it.
>
>Just another pile of bullshit.

Nope, those orders are very real.


>>There is a list of people who were promised a Pegasos board for demoscene
>>activity, and as soon as it's possible to fulfil that, they will get them!
>>That's the stark honest truth, there is no deadline or "maybe next week"
>>because I cannot be sure. We just started to sell Pegasos boards to Amiga
>>resellers again, because now we are starting to have the capacity (money-wise)
>>to build boards over and above the Freescale orders - the resellers really
>>wanted it, so we gave it to them.
>
>You gave it to them. I doubt that very much indeed.

I think "allocated" would be the correct word actually, but that is my understanding also.


>>Note that Freescale aren't able to produce boards at 1/5th of the cost; not
>>without the 4 years of development you usually put into these things. They could start now
>>and they'd be finished about the time we finish the Pegasos 6!

>Lets see, I think we've covered this, Neko says that two guys in Germany can fab, produce,
>develop, better than all of MOT, now called Freescale.

Why not? IBM get external companies to design their reference boards.
Freescale is in the semiconductor business, that's quite complex enough without having to be a board designer / manufacturer.

>Do you remember Set Top Boxes? I'm sure that allied to those statements were.... Cost reduction,
>and mass production. Yay!. Oh and NOT forgetting ! Throw Away Price !!! Yes!!!!

Price depends on the number manufactured, if it's in the hundreds they are expensive to make, PC boards are only cheap because they are made in the hundreds of thousands.

As for the STB I don't know the current status of that but a lot of work was done on the hardware itself but the last I heard the customer (who I met) wouldn't pay up front - which makes life difficult if manufacturing costs are going to run into to tens of millions.


Oh and lastly, apparantly my social security payments were made fine as I've been benifiting from them for several months now.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 122 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV0rl0n on 14-Jul-2004 14:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (minator):
I understand the scale cost issue and how it affects small manunfacturers and how PC industry board makers knock them out at £25upwards. The issue is that Neko does'nt, nor ever has.

No one is going to pay upfront, I think you *know* that. And given recent Genesi history, anyone who might have considered it, will not do so now.

In terms of you SS payments, ar'nt you the lucky one. Seeing as you brought this up, A pointed question, are you contracting or an employee?
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 123 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by minator on 14-Jul-2004 14:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 122 (AdmV0rl0n):
>No one is going to pay upfront, I think you *know* that. And given recent Genesi history,
>anyone who might have considered it, will not do so now.

For customers in the Amiga market yes I'd say thats true but for somethig like a very large STB order I've no idea how that would work. I've never been involved in such negtiations but I'd expect it varies from company to company.

>In terms of you SS payments, ar'nt you the lucky one. Seeing as you brought this up,
>A pointed question, are you contracting or an employee?

I was an Employee.

Right now I'm unemployed.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 124 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV0rl0n on 14-Jul-2004 15:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (minator):
First off, good luck in the hunt for job etc.

Second, seeing as you are not employed, you can't really be in a position to say if Neko is or is not lying.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 125 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 14-Jul-2004 15:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (AdmV0rl0n):
I can't show you any of those things, like you I do not have contrete information. I have enough information to make well informed guesses about a few things but that doesn't help anyone (except my ego)....all I said was that I think I'm smart enough to read between the li(n)es:

ShopIP product is/was DOA. It certainly relied on BSD...that's cause enough for it's demise. There are wild accusations out there about huge sums of money/IP ownership etc....I know nothing. All I know here was that my old Peg I G3 was used as a dev box buy the guys for a short while and I 'helped' one of their software guys walk around the system initially.

BSD is gone until that ass (Theo) gets off his high horse...not that some bridge building from Genesi wouldn't help either, paying the dev guy for one right?

Freescale is real, it is happening....whether the scale (no pun intended) of it is enough to save the company is unknown at this point. What do you suggest, that they give up trying?

Given that some employees and ex-employees stated publically that they weren't paid, I'd expect them to do the same if/when they actually get paid. Recent postings from BBRV (also Neko) indicate that they have not yet met those salary commitments.

Blades...I know nothing but you already have what I think of that in this thread ;-)

It's fine to call BS when you see it, I just ask that you re-examing your motives here:

Why do you care so much about Matt's behaviour?
Since you don't intend to buy a product - why do you care so much about Genesi' behaviour?

Since we're on motives, why do I care?
Simple..I bought the product (twice!) I'm interested in it and activiely participating in it's promotion (in my spare time) and I dislike some of the crap that spew's forth on these forums. For waht it's worth, Genesi, bPlan (and it's employees) have treated me with nothing but respect - both before and after I spent my money and at a level that far outweighs my meagre attempts to promote Pegasos/MorphOS.

I hope you took my point about posting in these forums, if not I'll be clearer. I don't think employees should do it at all, except for direct and informational purposes. Posting at any other time risks besmirching your employer/company being dragged into quagmires like this thread. BBRV has refrained, he really ought to ask his employees to show the same restraint IMO.

Steve
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 126 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 14-Jul-2004 16:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (JKD):
@Steve

>>For waht it's worth, Genesi, bPlan (and it's employees) have treated me with nothing but respect

That's just it. You are one of the VERY few. BBRV has p*ssed off and on just about everyone else he meets. Anybody that doesn't know him can can at least get the idea of what he's like if you have read some of the posts he's made in the forums.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 127 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 14-Jul-2004 16:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Anonymous):
<You'll get your Pegasos when there are Pegasos spare for you to get.>
Yeah, that just make you want to go to their site and order one.
"ah, you'll get it when you get it! Thanks for the cash."
--
Get your story straight, he was speaking about the FREE ones. Now go back into your hole.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 128 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 14-Jul-2004 16:35 GMT
I for sure know the freescale project IS true, since me and a friend of mine has become a part of it, and in this/our case we aren't talking about just a few machines either. Stop trolling, please, let this thread be about what it should be.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 129 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 14-Jul-2004 16:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (Hagge):
How many machines then?
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 130 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 14-Jul-2004 16:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (Hagge):
So what can you tell us about the deal? (if you are intitled to devulge such info)
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 131 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 14-Jul-2004 16:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 126 (Agima):
@Agima

>>>For waht it's worth, Genesi, bPlan (and it's employees) have treated me with nothing but respect
>
>That's just it. You are one of the VERY few. BBRV has p*ssed off and on just about everyone else he >meets. Anybody that doesn't know him can can at least get the idea of what he's like if you have read >some of the posts he's made in the forum

I do not doubt that BBRV have pissed certain people off but I have to say it's absolutely regretable but it's not a one way street, it takes 2 sides to make an arguement (The BSD f'k up being the most obvious case of 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.) A clear exception I will make is the following:

Is it right (or smart) to abuse your employees, absolutley not! Are they guilty as charged here? I'd say yes (based on evidence presented in forums!) Was this deliberate? Absolutely bloody not! BBRV themselves have posted extensively on this subject. (and yes, for the pedantic amongst you this something they have in common with AInc historically.) At least when called on it, BBRV gave an honest bloody reply unlike the Snoqualmie crowd who pretended it was BAU for a year or more...)

Actually there are many, many people who have had no interraction with BBRV yet are happy to judge them purely on forum rumours, this is wrong. My point was that I am not one of those people. I do not dispute that it is fair to form initial impressions of people from their actions and words but I think I'm not out of order when I call some of the actions in here more akin to a bloody witch hunt.

Steve
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 132 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 14-Jul-2004 16:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (JKD):
>>Was this deliberate? Absolutely bloody not!

Not paying employees may not have been deliberate, I aggree (though spending a lot of money on silly lawsuits probably doesn't show the best judgment.. no pun intended), but that isn't what I was getting at. He uses people in many other ways and we all know it.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 133 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 14-Jul-2004 17:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (AdmV0rl0n):
Since AdmV's making such a big issue of things here, it might be helpful to point out a typical example of the sort of comprehension problems he has - I think this will give people some idea of how many pinches of salt to take with AdmV's interpretations of what was written here and elsewhere over time :

Now, I'm pretty sure this will stimulate a response from AdmV, so I'll just say here that I'm not going to respond myself.

The facts, ma'am, just the facts :


minator : apparantly my social security payments were made fine as I've been benifiting from them for several months now.

AdmV0rl0n : are you contracting or an employee?

minator : I was an Employee. Right now I'm unemployed

AdmV0rl0n : good luck in the hunt for job etc


Gregg
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 134 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Analnymous on 14-Jul-2004 17:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (gary_c):
Never underestimate the power of self-deception.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 135 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 14-Jul-2004 17:59 GMT
Amon_re: I don't know much at all, only that we found out the Pegasos wasn't that expensive after all so we could just as well use that one as desktop machines. And a couple of days ago I was browsing http://www.pegasos.org/ and found http://www.pegasos.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=135 so I took a look on http://www.genesi.lu/pilot.php and found out about the project (I suppose that is the freescale project atleast). And somehow we where allowed to join and since it sounds like a good opportunity why miss it? As you can see on the webpages it centers around the open desktop (freescale/motorola g4, pegasos, linux) and the usage of gentoo, yellow dog or debian linux. I suppose freescale/motorola (and Genesi of course) sees a chance to get into the desktop business with Linux. Anything beyond that is only speculation on my side, but it seems intresting and will be fun to follow, and I wish Genesi the best possible future there is. I've also seen quite a couple of images today from the makeing of the actually desktops (http://www.morphzone.org/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=698 and then next, and next again).

Agima: At this time it's impossible to say how many, that depends on how everything works out and how well the machines fit their purpose I suppose.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 136 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 14-Jul-2004 18:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (Agima):
If people get used then it's largely their own fault, unless of course the deception is complete .. and tbh that's very difficult to acheive.

We at least agree on the point of frivolous lawsuits :D

Steve
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 137 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 14-Jul-2004 18:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Hagge):
Hagge..actually I think it's possible to come close.

Production quantities are 200 to 300 per month, based on previous posts and so far as I know productino capacity has not been increased. Somewhere between 2 and 3 months production has gone to the project....again reading from public statements about general non-availaibilty of production to consumers. So anywhere from 400 to 900 machines? 600 seems reasonable ;-)

July's production run will include re-seller orders, indicating either a winding down in boards to freescale or slight bump in production (maybe 'coz re-sellers have to pay up front ;-) vs 60 day payment terms...purely guesswork)


Steve
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 138 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Jul-2004 20:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (Agima):
How many machines then?

Simple, just count how many production runs aren't/weren't available from online shop.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 139 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 14-Jul-2004 21:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (AdmV0rl0n):
>Then you've missed something. Perhaps you like I should monitor what he says most carefully.

OK...I concede (for now). I just read the Bunny thread where Neko argues the validity of dnetc as a benchmark until he's blue/purple in the face! ;-)

Steve
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 140 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 14-Jul-2004 22:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (JKD):
Was this deliberate?

When you lay out plans to "conqueror the world" on IRC and some people (annoying smartasses like me) tell you to slow down and keep things real, and you ignore the warnings, fight off any arguments with mumbo-jumbo biz-talk that is only usefull for buzzword bingo, and then try to pull off mission impossible.. and ofcourse fail.. is it deliberate? I my view, yes.

But what the heck, it is also nice entertainment, and I get to say "told you so", I kinda like that :)
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 141 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 14-Jul-2004 22:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (Analnymous):
Never underestimate the power of self-deception.

Thanks for the tip. But if you see enough of my posts, you know that I'm happy enough to modify my view when people confront me with a valid argument. Inaccuracies in my description of motives for the purchase of the Amiga IP by iTek in a thread at amigaworld.net are a recent case in point. (You can find the thread there easily enough, just sort through the locked ones. ;-) )So if I'm self-deceiving, I still somehow manage to let other viewpoints modify mine where appropriate, or anyway that's my hope. My motivation on these forums isn't to erect a solid wall of defense against one side or another, but to state opinions that I think are valid. This is a dynamic process. Feel free to make yourself known and join in.

-- gary_c
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 142 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 14-Jul-2004 23:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (Agima):
1. Do you think that Bill Buck has ever lied purposely to this community at anytime for his or his company's own gain?

If you mean in the sense of saying something that was not 100% accurate in literal terms, yes. Do I think *every* CEO fails this test? Yes. Do I think every human fails this kind of test? Yes. Has he been worse than another person would be in his position? Hard to say; probably not, though, at least in comparison with another person with the same drive to keep things moving forward.

2. Do you think Bill Buck has acted immorally in regard to the Amiga community at anytime for his or his company's own gain?

I do think he (or someone in Genesi management, since these things aren't always transparent) has made wrong judgement calls at times. I don't agree with the way certain things have been done or how certain statements were made. But "acted immorally" implies a judgement of a person's overall character; in that sense, no, I don't think so.

I have more to say about this but, since we're talking about honesty and morality here, I'm not going to continue. Identify yourself and give your words the level of authenticity you're demanding from others.

-- gary_c (cunningham-lee.com)
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 143 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 14-Jul-2004 23:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (Anonymous):
Conveniently forgetting your own obsession with "shell games" at KMOS.

What obsession? Somebody started a thread calling for questions people wanted Garry Hare to be asked at AmiWest. Don't tell me I'm the only guy who'd like to know more about how that IP sale came about, who's involved, what's been going on for 14 months, etc. I posted my questions in response to the thread; I didn't bring up the subject there. Having unanswered questions is not the same as being obsessed.

-- gary_c
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 144 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 14-Jul-2004 23:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (AdmV0rl0n):
The issue is Neko not Genesi in the first instance, but if his job role is online bullshitter, thats their issue, he is their employee.

When I get time I may read through the Moobunny thread again; maybe I've lost track of who said what.

-- gary_c
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 145 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 14-Jul-2004 23:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (Agima):
He uses people in many other ways and we all know it.

These "everybody knows" and "we all know it" statements are the worst kind of classic smear tactic. For someone who's on a righteous crusade against the lying, immoral Bill Buck, you don't hesitate to throw the low blows yourself.

Stick to specific facts if you want to be taken seriously, don't just make sweeping, unsupported generalizations. This is what I'd expect no matter who's being criticized.

-- gary_c
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 146 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 15-Jul-2004 04:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Framiga):
bPlan and DCE aren't the same company. You want to talk to Thomas Deilert,
we have 3 completely DIFFERENT Thomas's (2 of which are even German!) but
what DCE do with their money and customers (of which we are one.. we use their
equipment) is up to them.

Neko
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 147 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 15-Jul-2004 07:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Hagge):
Good luck with the project then & thx for the info :P
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 148 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV0rl0n on 15-Jul-2004 08:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (JKD):
The discussion there is about what, and who is he arguing with. If you've considered that carefully you'd recind you statement about how you think he has got 'better' in whole and without reservation.

AdmV
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 149 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by minator on 15-Jul-2004 14:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (AdmV0rl0n):
>First off, good luck in the hunt for job etc.

Thank you.

>Second, seeing as you are not employed, you can't really be in a position to say

You are assuming I have had no contact with Genesi, I don't know everything what's going on but I still have some contact.

>if Neko is or is not lying.

I commented on specific points, that said I would not take the writings of anyone in a forum as official statements from any company.
Online Pegasos Sales are back!!! : Comment 150 of 157ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 15-Jul-2004 15:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 126 (Agima):
You could count me as another of those "very few" bbrv treated with nothing but respect. And I'm even an ex-contractor/employee/whateverIwas for them.
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