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[Forum] We should all stand tougether!ANN.lu
Posted on 16-Jul-2004 11:56 GMT by Michal (Edited on 2004-07-17 14:23:44 GMT by Teemu I. Yliselä)76 comments
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Amiga is now so divided that groups is threaten its reputation. More and more people which I try to sell MorphOS or AmigaOS4 to, says that the war/etc discussions between this groups kills the platform. Amiga needs a good reputation and it wont have that before we all agree on that going on with both under one name. Which is AMIGA as PC is in the other side of computing. Amiga is a strong word. People remember it,.. but with Amiga showing off that we have AmigaOne, Pegasos etc++ That the community is running PPC motherboard components. That this community is about beein our self. To show that we are different. This is good! And we need to turn the negative words against each other over to positive words. We as the Amiga community controlled lots of it, when everything seemed lost. And now were splitted for nothing? Who's to blame? No one! Its about time, its about the time we all have waited. That users, etc companies have found out how good AmigaOS code is. That it is revolutionary in many ways, but it dosen't help when this community trhows snowballs on each sides when actually both sides is fighting for the same thing. To be the next generation Amiga.

But as Classic Amiga was and is the real Amiga. This new PPC motherboards is not Amiga at all. But they are choices. They have become new choices for everyone. And now we need to rebuild it all. We need to focus on getting Amiga reputation back. And that Amiga as from now on stands for what we all was and are. A userbase that is different and that we really care about each others.

Let us be the Spirit Of Amiga. Let us give Amiga a new life, a community that cares and that wants support from other big companies etc. Medias have allways been overwhelming positive over us. We cannot destroy it now. We need to focus on beeing an alternative platform to Linux, BeOS, Windows, MacOS etc.

Spirit Of Amiga logo

Now lets start to be what Amiga is allways been. The personal computer for home and entertainment areas!

Regards, Michal, www.amigaworld.org

We should all stand tougether! : Comment 1 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2004 10:01 GMT
Your spelling, paragraphing, and use of full stops is awful.
I couldn't be bothered to read that text.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 2 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2004 10:02 GMT
OK, I read it and it wasn't so bad, after all.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 3 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Rupert Hausberger on 16-Jul-2004 10:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Anonymous):
What is your contribution to the community? Spellchecking and beeing lame?

naTmeg
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 4 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Perver on 16-Jul-2004 10:16 GMT
Give the guy a break, and at least support him for making the effort in what he is doing. Although I doubt that Amiga can ever be One again, it has been torn apart by lies and broken promises and that is what makes it hard for us to trust anyone anymore.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 5 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Hippie-killer on 16-Jul-2004 10:20 GMT
Damnit I'm tired of hippies.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 6 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 16-Jul-2004 10:23 GMT
My experience is that most Amiga and clone users get along perfectly well in real life, regardless of whether they think OS4/MorphOS/AROS/Amithlon/none of the above is the way forward.

Just because a few idiots post crap on web forums, and certain others take everything too seriously, it looks a lot worse if your only contact with the "Amiga community" is via those forums.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 7 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 16-Jul-2004 10:28 GMT
It's a utopia. The "choices" available to us are in direct competition with each other and the companies behind them are doing everything they can to oppose each others efforts. It's made for tearing us apart and the crack will grow as long as these efforts are keep counter measuring the other instead of cooperating. In a big profitable market you would call it perfectly normal competition, as a non-profitable hobby activity with an extremely small group of activists scattered all over the world, it's perfectly insane.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 8 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2004 10:28 GMT
BPlan, MOSTeam, Eyetech, Hyperion,... have a look at this:

"In a historic announcement, issued jointly this evening by RISCOS Ltd., Castle, Advantage 6, MicroDigital and VirtualAcorn, it would very much appear that the past on-going disputes surrounding RISC OS have been settled. Take a deep breath, then wait for this." - http://www.drobe.co.uk/riscos/artifact1125.html

and why not... LEARN from this.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 9 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2004 10:44 GMT
Amiga is dead Michal. I wonder when you'll finally get it and stop annoying everyone.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 10 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Ted - The Generic Guy on 16-Jul-2004 10:48 GMT
We certainly would be more effective if we didn't compete with each other. The real competition is out there, not here. IMO, if there was only one Amiga company with the work and property of all three sides available to it, we could potentially offer an Amiga solution to any platform out there.

Sadly, I can't see it happening for a long time, if it ever does.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 11 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 16-Jul-2004 10:53 GMT
I myself would like to end worldhunger and wars. So could we start a poll or something about it.. SOMETHING MUST HAVE TO BE DONE!
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 12 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 16-Jul-2004 10:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (hooligan/dcs):
Make a logo... ;)
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 13 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 16-Jul-2004 10:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Anonymous):
"and why not... LEARN from this."

The big difference is that all the Acorn/RISC people are in the same small country, so they can easily meet up for face to face discussions. Emails and phone calls are a poor substitute.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 14 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2004 11:16 GMT
>The real competition is out there, not here.
That's right...
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 15 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 16-Jul-2004 11:17 GMT
One must die, so the other lives.

Gross? True. Putrid? True.


But, it's the only way forward, imho.



AmigaOne! Pre-AOS4.0! Now in the ring.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 16 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 16-Jul-2004 11:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (hooligan/dcs):
Why not starting by the small things... and this is indeed a small thing compared to 'worldhunger and wars'
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 17 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 16-Jul-2004 11:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (pixie):
Sure we can start from smaller things... whats this.. 1053rd thread to reunite the people?

Pardon me if I'm sceptic..
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 18 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 16-Jul-2004 11:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (hooligan/dcs):
In the voice of Stefan Sauk:

- Aaaeeee... jaa e skeptisk!

:-P
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 19 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 16-Jul-2004 11:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Ted - The Generic Guy):
"We certainly would be more effective if we didn't compete with each other. The real competition is out there, not here. IMO, if there was only one Amiga company with the work and property of all three sides available to it, we could potentially offer an Amiga solution to any platform out there."

Or there would be no development at all. If there is no competition why develop anything? The same happened to AmigaOS, WarpOS, Internet Explorer, the whole IT industry, cars, ships, whatever. Believe me, the mere existence of MorphOS is a brutal driving force behind the OS4 project.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 20 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 16-Jul-2004 11:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Atheist2):
"One must die, so the other lives."

Would you be so kind, then... :)
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 21 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 16-Jul-2004 11:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Emeric SH):
"Believe me, the mere existence of MorphOS is a brutal driving force behind the OS4 project."

And the AROS project. None of them can sit back and say "It can't be done" about some feature which is alive and well in another of the three.

Competition on features and quality is good. Court cases and insults are not.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 22 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2004 11:53 GMT
And the benefits of the current offerings over standard solutions are........
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 23 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Ted - The Generic Guy on 16-Jul-2004 11:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Emeric SH):
Or there would be no development at all. If there is no competition why develop anything? The same happened to AmigaOS, WarpOS, Internet Explorer, the whole IT industry, cars, ships, whatever. Believe me, the mere existence of MorphOS is a brutal driving force behind the OS4 project.

A valid point. I would hope that in the case of a single company, the focus would be more on MacOS and Linux as the competition. I can't help feeling though that they are too far ahead to be effective opposition. It would end up being viewed as an "unclimbable mountain" to even catch up.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 24 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 16-Jul-2004 12:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Emeric SH):
Hi Emeric SH,


While it IS totally pessimistic to say that, Bill Buck said "We must sell 20,000 per month to survive", and that would apply to the other side of the fence, that is Eyetech also.... Well, do you see sales of that magnitude happening any time soon? With those projections, BOTH companies ARE in the toilet.

This IS Amiga and Atari all over again!!!!


The big difference is, the public does not take chances anymore, is not willing to go out on a limb, like in the past, because in the past, no one company was a clear cut route to the future. None were "it", unlike now, where m$ is firmly entrenched as the system to own.


BUT, I am telling you what you do already know.


The ONLY way for us to be considered at all is having the same price point as an x86 PC, and that's near impossible to get to. :-((((


Nor ibum and motoscum seem interested in helping out, in what would be in their own best interests. I think moto's days are numbered, personally. Well, they still seem strong in the cell phone segment, but wait'll the big players close in on their market share in that, too.

ibum just seems interested in making really expensive CPUs, and that's why they were practically shut out of the micro computer market THEY created! That's what happened the first time around, and they seem destined to repeat it.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 25 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 16-Jul-2004 12:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (hooligan/dcs):
"Pardon me if I'm sceptic.."
Apologies accepted! ;)
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 26 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 16-Jul-2004 12:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (pixie):
*hug*
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 27 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 16-Jul-2004 12:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Ted - The Generic Guy):
Linux too far ahead!?? Linux isn't for mass consumption yet, as soon as Amiga get a browser it will be in more advanced state then Linux for Joe User..

Oh the irony!!!

Mac, its a good product, no doubt about it!
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 28 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 16-Jul-2004 12:58 GMT
The great genius Moby had say it already:


We are all made of stars

Growing in numbers
Growing in speed
Can't fight the future
Can't fight what I see

People they come together
People they fall apart
No one can stop us now
'Cause we are all made of stars

Efforts of lovers
Left in my mind
I sing in the reaches
We'll see what we find

People they come together
People they fall apart
No one can stop us now
'Cause we are all made of stars

People they come together
People they fall apart
No one can stop us now
'Cause we are all made of stars

Slow slow slow, come come
Someone come come come
Even love is goin' 'round
You can't ignore what is goin' 'round

Slowly rebuilding
I feel it in me
Growing in numbers
Growing in peace

People they come together
People they fall apart
No one can stop us now
'Cause we are all made of stars

People they come together
People they fall apart
No one can stop us now
'Cause we are all made of stars

People they come together
(People they come together)
People they fall apart
(People they fall apart)
No one can stop us now
(No one can stop us now)
'Cause we are all made of stars
(We are all made of stars)

We are all made of stars
People they come together
We are all made of stars
(People they fall apart)
We are all made of stars
(No one can stop us now)
'Cause we are all made of stars
(We are all made of stars)

Sorry for the long post, but it has to been said ;)
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 29 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 16-Jul-2004 13:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Atheist2):
AROS anyone!?? Amithlon, UAE, WinUAE... Good software is good software, if it run hosted native, joe user doesn't matter as it suits him. Good management find a way to get it to the user...
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 30 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 16-Jul-2004 13:03 GMT
Someone should sue Michael for trademark infringement.

Michael's various initiatives like writing Sony to get amiga compatibility on the next playstation, are laughable.

I don't believe that people are wrong to criticize Michael's bad grammer, word choices, spelling, and overall adolescent style.

Because even though, that may seem harsh and a bit mean spirited....Michael does have one good thing going for him, a boundless enthusiasm, and if he could channel that into, well, a 'professional' approach, he might accomplish his goal of being a leader in this community.

Right now, I cringe to think Michael could be a leader here...if that's what passes for leadership, then we are lost.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 31 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2004 13:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (MarkTime):
Don't worry man. Only one guy is listening to him ;)
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 32 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 16-Jul-2004 13:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (MarkTime):
Mr Marktime, what have you done in the past so that we can have someone laughting at you!?

So he write to Sony, and what do you think is worst talking to them or not at all? Not at all won't make them choosing AmigaOS, altough talking about probably won't do it either... so nothing wrong here, but at least he's coherent, he tries, and then those who are seeten doing nothing moans about what others actually do. Not all can be a schummie, but at least most can drive a car..

About this... well probably it's a growing feeling in the 'kommunity', so it even can't be compared to that example. Probably it doesn't matter much until the head shots on Genesy and Hyperion agree, but... as people start showing them that's the way they want it to be, maybe they will be forced to change, then again maybe they won't... but it doesn't harm a leg to try.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 33 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 16-Jul-2004 13:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (hooligan/dcs):
"Group hug!!!!"

...or maybe not ;-)

As I've said many a time (well at least twice now)...without MOS, there is no OS4 :P

Steve
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 34 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 16-Jul-2004 14:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anonymous):
You don't want Amiga to grow, so why are you being here, being pedantic? Can we have your visions shared!? Can you stood by them... please, be my guest
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 35 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 16-Jul-2004 14:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (JKD):
I see it has a good thing, as AROS, but they can't be shooting at the same targuet.. even because the targuet is too small, but they share a common technologie and a momentum, and they can share it and take to their advantage...

We have AmigaOS on VP (68k), x86 and PPC, palm... etc.. what more solutions do we want!?
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 36 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2004 14:14 GMT
IMO competition is healthy and could push us forward.

Sadly some people think that spreading FUD about the competition is good. This is mostly directed against the official Amiga efforts! The Amiga supporters generally say "MOS is nice, but it's not for me." This is an alot more honourable approach than all the trolling.

Don't FUD the competition, make your platform better!
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 37 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by ncosta on 16-Jul-2004 14:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Anonymous):
We could have OS4 solution running on Pegasos through morphos... (no, not porting OS4 to Pegasos no need to reeinvent the weel)

If you could have Amiga software running on all solutions... that would be sweet.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 38 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 16-Jul-2004 14:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Ted - The Generic Guy):
The problem here is that the competition is too rough, too much money behind it. The Amiga would be squished like a bug before it had properly matured, much like BeOS and OS/2 was. By having this infighting, all of these Amiga systems are being improved without any real method of killing the other. The end result is rapid progress and a rapidly improving platform. By the time either one of these even has a chance of approaching the mass market, their constant bickering will have turned them all into some seriously tough competition. And an additional advantage here, by having a common root and common interests, a "dual-pronged" strategy would actually lend itself to a better market strategy than the previous efforts. One of the reasons why Linux is so hard to beat is because it is not 1 OS but several. However, Linux is pretty consolidated by comparison to AmigaOS, MorphOS and AROS. Imagine the nightmare in having to defend a market position against 3 nearly identical competitors. You can target one only to open yourself up to the other two.

We, the lilliputians, should be proud.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 39 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 16-Jul-2004 14:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Nate Downes):
> We, the lilliputians, should be proud.
;)

Linux is hype, is clonning technology, better served with cdrom burners!
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 40 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 16-Jul-2004 14:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (pixie):
No arguements here, Linux as a "microsoft killer" is just hype. It has no cohesion. But it is a decent OS.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 41 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 16-Jul-2004 14:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Nate Downes):
More so, standing from user POV is a nightmare...
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 42 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Michal on 16-Jul-2004 14:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Nate Downes):
There is lots of competition on the PC marked. All these HP, Dell, IBM, Toshiba or whatever. Works for the same PC so called platform.

Now as we have choosen for choosing PPC and forgetting custom chips. Its better to have a name for it. Amiga will be the open alternative to Mac for example. AmigaOS can also easy knockout Linux if it got good support. But it dosen't. Because people which actually wants to code for morphos or amigaos4 is getting scared off by thess discussions.

Amiga stands out in thats its free, easy and for everyone. Spirit Of Amiga is the campaign to get red and blue to become friends. Become lojal and accept each others choices because of all the waiting suffering which every real Amiga user have experienced.

The goal here, is to in the end be able to attract programmers at big software houses to start looking for AmigaOS4 and MorphOS. I've actually sent mails to Virgin, Adobe, Corel, Macromedia and others and asked about MorphOS and AmigaOS4 support. And most of them just dosen't like the debate climate which exsists between Pegasos and AmigaONE users. We need to start working tougether as a community and HUG, HUG each others. Either we are blue, red, green, yellow, black or white.

Spirit Of Amiga campaign is here to stay and I hope that you will support it. T-shirts, cups etc will be made later on. We need to show the world that we care, and stop with fighting. We just destroy more than we rebuild. And thats sad.


Regards,
Michal, www.amigaworld.org
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 43 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2004 14:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (ncosta):
Unique features will allow for healthy competition and better quality products. So if software take advantage of those unique features they likely can't support all three platform with didential software. The platform with the slowest advancements would set the pace. So likely AROS.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 44 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 16-Jul-2004 15:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Anonymous):
there's nothing quite so unique that in such modular implementation such as AmigaOS can't be made to run on another amigaos implementation
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 45 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 16-Jul-2004 15:19 GMT
"I've actually sent mails to Virgin, Adobe, Corel, Macromedia and others and asked about MorphOS and AmigaOS4 support. And most of them just dosen't like the debate climate which exsists between Pegasos and AmigaONE users. "

Wow!!! They know about us, 'lilliputians' and our 'fights'!!?? :O I'm shocked!!!!
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 46 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2004 15:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (pixie):
>"I've actually sent mails to Virgin, Adobe, Corel, Macromedia and others and >asked about MorphOS and AmigaOS4 support. And most of them just dosen't like >the debate climate which exsists between Pegasos and AmigaONE users. "

I heavily doubt that any of the above companies know what the 'debate climate' is between the MOS and OS4 users, so this can't be the reason why they don't want to port any popular titles. Myself, I'm leaning towards the explanation that MOS/OS4 is just petty cash for them.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 47 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2004 15:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Anonymous):
ERRATA:

Myself, I'm leaning towards the explanation that support for MOS/OS4 would just be petty cash for them.


But you're right Michael, if Commodore was still alive, and AmigaOS was alive and kicking, maybe we would see support for the big titles. But as the situation is now, it's impossible. Well, perhaps if Hyperion/Eyetech/KMOS can pull this whole thing off, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I think the bottom line is to just enjoy what's here now, and not worry about the future.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 48 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Janne on 16-Jul-2004 18:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Sammy Nordström):
>It's a utopia. The "choices" available to us are in direct competition with
>each other and the companies behind them are doing everything they can to
>oppose each others efforts.

But there really isn't any need for it to be a utopia. While it certainly remains to be seen if it ends up that way, I really don't see any pressing reason why it should be like that.

Sure, I agree we have competing companies out there, and agreed, they are not exactly on the best of terms, but why should that reflect to the user base? Let the companies do what they do. That doesn't mean the users (or third party companies) can't stick together - no matter how loosely that might be.

I certainly agree that for many of us it may be too late. We all have our biases and years of neglect by one party or the other has left its mark. Very few of us are really fair nor objective - not you, not me. And no amount of "you knows" or quotes from dictionary.com is really going to change that.

We are what we are, and objectivity left town long ago.

However, we are not the beginning nor are we end of this community. If there truly is a resurrection or a market or two (odds of which are another debate alltogether), new faces will bring in new ideas and new priorities. Some of these people could well see multiple solutions they like and synergies would be found (and I'd wager such synergies have already been found). Just like the *nix world. Certaily there are the purists and fans of particular solutions, but there are also tons of cross-platform solutions too. What benefits Linux often benefits NetBSD benefits MacOS X benefits UNIX and so on.

Why not Amiga?

Because we are blind zealots? Well. We are blind zealots, but luckily not the whole world is that way and perhaps, just perhaps, some of that rest of the world comes down pouring on us one day...

We might at least, in our infinite blindness and zealotry, try to give it a fighting chance.
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 49 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 16-Jul-2004 20:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Atheist2):
Well, do you see sales of that magnitude happening any time soon?

Yes, but not in this comunity.

Topic: developers should make aplications easily portable between solutions (or SDK creators should make developers life as easy as possible)
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 50 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 16-Jul-2004 22:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Anonymous):
"But you're right Michael, if Commodore was still alive, and AmigaOS was alive and kicking, maybe we would see support for the big titles."

Only if there were 30 or 40 million users. All these big companies have too many overheads to tackle a new market unless it is bigger than the Mac market.

The best bet is to encourage Amiga programmers by making it an easy platform to code for. A team of 3 or 4 programmers can produce an excellent product - for example, the music program Reason for Windows.

Then you will also get proper Amiga programs, with screen requester, font preferences, ARexx port, etc.
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