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[News] Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4ANN.lu
Posted on 18-Jul-2004 12:20 GMT by Jens Schönfeld469 comments
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During the first months of this year, we were totally surprised by the overwhelming demand for Catweasel MK3. All stock has been sold, and even our retail partners do not have anything left in stock. The demand was so high that one controller even went for more than 150,- EUR on eBay!
Unfortunately, it turned out that a new production run of the existing MK3-design cannot be done for reasonable prices, so a re-design became necessary. The new controller is now in the first stage before mass production, so we're confident to be able to show the first controllers at the Amiwest show on july 24th and 25th in Sacramento, Califoria.

Many improvements have been made compared to the Catweasel MK3 that can be summarized under the headline "bigger, better, faster". The changes in detail

The most obvious change is the size of the card: With only 2.5 inch (63.5mm) height, it complies with the low-profile PCI standard that not only fits into any normal computer case, but also in flat models that are so famous among so-called "case-modders". The Flipper-interface will not be continued. Those who need a Catweasel for their classic Amiga can use the Catweasel Z-II S-Class, which is still availble.

Improvements on the floppy controller
Kylwalda built in
While the old Catweasel models always had their own floppy drives that were installed in addition to the existing controller and drives, the MK4 has the option of using the existing diskdrives. After the machine has started, th drives can be used just like before, and after the drivers have been loaded, the Catweasel can take control of these drives when necessary. This is especially useful for smaller cases with fewer drive bays.
We already addressed this problem earlier with an additional product called 'Kylwalda'.

Suppot for auto-eject drives
These drives without eject-button are well-known from Macintosh computers, and they're now fully supported by the Catweasel. You can also mix floppy types, one with an eject-button, and another from the Macintosh world on the same cable.

Hard-sectored disks supported
This kind of 5.25 and 8 inch disks were already readable with the previous Catweasel models, but writing was only possible with a high software effort, and it required a realtime operating system. This effort is not necessary any more with the new controller, because new options allow complete support of these disk types in hardware.

dual-ported memory
Contrary to it's predecessors, the new Catweasel MK4 can pass the data that it is currently reading from a disk to the computer while the read access is running. This allows realtime emulation, and errorfree function of copy-protected software on emulators.

more flexible read- and write operations
In addition to working on whole tracks, which made all previous Catweasel models so flexible, tracks can now also be accesed in part very precisely. Should this become necessary for compatibility or speed reasons, the Catweasel MK4 is perfectly prepared.

extensive timer-functions
Although most operating systems already offer timer-functions in software, you cannot always rely on them. The most recent example are the timing-problems that occur with Hyperthreading-processors and Windows operating systems. Since all timers are running independantly in the hardware of the Catweasel MK4, nothing can go wrong in this regard.

all events can trigger an interrupt (IRQ)
Together with the hardware-timer functions, this is the best solution for multitasking operating systems. The driver software does not have to check regularly if the controller needs attention, which reduces the processor load.

Improvements on the keyboard interface

In addition to Amiga-keyboards, PS/2 devices can now also be connected. Not only keyboards, but also PS/2 mice are supported. The keyboard controller can now trigger IRQs, and for those customers who want to continue using their favourite combination of PS/2 mouse and keyboard on USB-only computers, the Catweasel MK4 has two connectors of this kind.

Improvements on the joystick ports

Amiga mice supported in hardware
Amiga mice only have minimal electronics that always pass the movements of the device to the computer in realtime. Classic Amiga computers have hardware-support for interpretation of these signals in the chipset, and this support has now been added to the Catweasel. Theoretically, using Amiga mice was already possible with the Catweasel MK3, but this required a software effort that was not justifiable. With the new hardware, the software effort is reduced to a minimum.

every signal can be programmed as output
The digital joystick ports of the 8-bit computers of the 80s were mostly usable in two directions, they were not only inputs, but also programmable as data outputs. We're following this tradition, and also present this possibility for the Catweasel MK4.

compatible with CD32 pads
The game controllers of the Amiga CD32 can now also be used on the Catweasel. A special capability of the classic Amigas (and therefore also of the CD32) made these pads exclusive for this computer, if connected to other computers, not all buttons of the pad could be used. Technically speaking: Even the potentiometer-pins of the digital joystick ports can be programmed as outputs on the Catweasel MK4.

Improvements on the SID audio part

DC-DC converter eliminates noise
On the Catweasel MK3, it was possible that noises from 3D-graphics cards or high-speed harddrives were coupled into the 12V-power supply of the SID audio part. This cannot happen any more on the Catweasel MK4, because a DC-DC converter is an insuperable obstacle for such noises.

cycle-exact control
In addition to the known programming that's compatible with the Catweasel MK3, the MK4 has a sophisticated script-language for SID control. This lets the programmer define the exact time for data that's being written into the SID chips. To make sample playback sound exactly like on a real C64, the data rate to the SID chip must be kept at a constant rate. This is accomplished with Fifo memory that's big enough to maintain the datarate even under high processor load conditions.

Digiboost for new SID versions
As opposed to the 'classic SID' 6581, the newer SID-chips 8580 and 6582 cannot playback samples any more. This option, which is also called 'the fourth voice', is replaced by two sigma-delta converters on the Catweasel MK4, so the fourth channel is also audible with the newer SID versions. Since the filter properties and the sound of mixed waveforms of all SID versions have their supporters, this should make the decision for the right chip a little easier.

Filter capacitors selectable
Commodore has defined three different capacitor values for the filters of the SIDs during the years that this chip has been produced. The result was that the same chip sounded differently if used in different computers. To bring the sound as close as possible to what you are used to, the filter capacitors can be chosen with a few jumpers.

precise clocking
The Catweasel MK3 used the commodore-chip 8701 to recreate the exact same clock. Since our stock of this chip is empty with the Catweasel MK3 being sold out, we have cloned it on the main logic chip of the Catweasel MK4: The exact base frequency is generated with crystals that have been made especially for us. By division and multiplication according to the specifications of the C64 schematics from 1982, we managed to replace the 8701, which is not made any more. Even the slight difference between PAL and NTSC computers is software-selectable!

two SIDs for stereo sound
You'll have twice the SID pleaseure after installing a second SID chip. Every SID has it's own selection of filter capacitors, and SIDs of all versions can be mixed.

Technology improvements

compatible with 3.3V and 5V PCI slots
Even though PC boards with 3.3V PCI slots are not yet widely available, the Catweasel is prepared for it. The roadmap of the PCI special interst group plans to abandon 5V PCI slots within forseeable time, and the Catweasel is perfectly suited for that date. Local generation of the 3.3V power also ensures proper function on early PCI motherboards that do not comply with the ATX standard.

two DMA interfaces
In addition to processor-based data transfer, the Catweasel MK4 can excahnge data with the main system through two low-speed DMA channels: The first goes throught he PCI slot, and it has a capacity of about 8K per second and direction. The second uses the direct connection to the onboard-floppy controller, and the speed is up to 100K per second.

low power consumption
The Catweasel MK4 makes use of the latest FPGA technology with 2.5V core voltage. This reduces the power consumption of the new controller to a fraction of what the Catweasel MK3 used. This also reduces heat generation a lot.

re-configurable logic
The FPGA on the Catweasel MK4 is completely re-configurable by the drivers. This means that a hardware update can be done through the internet! Should we find a disk format that cannot be handled with the current hardware, the core of the Catweasel can be 're-wired' to address the problem. The controller doesn't even have to be taken out of the computer for ths update!

drivers for many operating systems
The Catweasel MK4 is delivered with drivers for Windows 98(se)/ME/XP/2000, Amiga OS4, and for Mac OS X at a later date. MorphOS drivers are available for a surcharge.

The Catweasel MK4 will be available starting october 2004.
The target retail price is 99,- EUR.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 101 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by breed on 19-Jul-2004 10:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Jens Schönfeld):
Jens, your products are great!!!

Thanks!!!

;-)
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 102 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 19-Jul-2004 10:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (Anonymous):
BBRV doesn't come with the goods agreed and now it's author fault he doesn't support Pegasos, care to explain!??
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 103 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 19-Jul-2004 10:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Don Cox):
> There are real differences in skin colour and nose shape among humans living
> in various places,

That's obviously true, but that doesn't imply that there may be other people, living in a totally different place, which have their (of the ones you mention, that is) same nose shape and skin colour.

Those are environmental adaptations, and wherever there's the same environment there are also the same environmental adaptations, regardless of whether those people, living in different environments, far a part from one another, share their genes.

That's why distinguishing races on the basis of skin colour and nose shape is senseless and useless.


> and these do relate to climatic adapation in a logical way (those living where
> there is a shortage of sunlight have evolved paler skin).

Again, there are _many_ pale skinned population, which doesn't mean they all share the same biological (relatively recent) history. It's like saying that a shark and a whale belong to the same race just because they both happen to live in the sea, swim and have a strong and smooth skin. In reality, they just happen to have adapted themselves to the environment in which they live, which lead them to develop the same strategies and tools in order to bring on with their lives.

> It may be that the simple concept of a subspecies works best where not much is
> known in detail about the genetics of a species.

If you want to cathegorize people on the basis of their skin colour, then go ahead, but don't calle them "races": they are not.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 104 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 19-Jul-2004 10:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (Anonymous):
OT: Funny to see some anonymous whiner complaining about respect!

I'm a Pegasos2 owner without working drivers for a Catweasel MKIII (or possible hardware failure..but I could have sworn it worked OK in Peg 1)

Do I still want a MKIV? Yes!

Does it suck that I might have to pay more for drivers? Yes!

Am I bothered? Only a little....if Jens has to buy a Peg2 to develop drivers on then he has to recover that cost somewhere. I guess he already has Amiga, PC etc. costs already sunk...so I live with it.

Anonymous, what would you do for a possible 30 or 40 sales?

Regards,

Steve

P.S. This is where Phoenix step in with a loaner board :-D (Which is a nice idea, but it seems production runs of Peg2 are too small for this kind of activity right now...Dave?)
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 105 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 19-Jul-2004 10:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Fabio Alemagna):
> [...] that there may be

that there may NOT be.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 106 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Burström on 19-Jul-2004 10:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (Anonymous):
>Again: what USERS/BUYERS of Pegasos (that would buy the Catweasel MK4 *if*, just like *any other OS*, drivers came with the hard with *no* additionnal charge) have to do with BBRV owning you money ?!?!

Quite easy actually. The USERS of a cheap, subsidised mainboard are happy because they have cheap hardware. However, they did not pay the actual cost
of the hardware. Instead, it was paid for by other individuals like Jens that wasn't paid for the services they offered.
The Pegasos users may be happy for a short while the Pegasos is cheap, but the truth is that it doesn't finance itself. If the Pegasos was sold at a cost that could finance itself, alot of people wouldn't be angry with Genesi since Genesi wouldn't be owing them money.

So, in the end, you should still blame BBRV for this and not Jens.
Besides, if the hardware you bought was so cheap, why cannot you afford some drivers for it? In the end, everything has its cost and it doesn't matter where you put it, the whole is the same. But it is rather annoying that some people doesn't understand that what you gain in some places, you will loose in other places.

regards,
Stefan
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 107 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by minator on 19-Jul-2004 10:59 GMT
Fabio Alemagna wrote:

>Basically, the term "race" is a pure fiction, from the biological point of view.

From the Dictionary.com link for "Race":
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

3. A genealogical line; a lineage.

--

However this is irrelevant as the original post was this:

>Weren't there a thread over amiga.org about Sweden... Yes, I remember.
>
>"Here in Sweden almost everyone I now use A1 or Classic Amiga. If you use a Pegasos you
>are not welcome in most amiga clubs."
>
>http://www.amiga.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=17437&forum=4#forumpost233163
>
>This racism will kill the community, like it or not.

The term "racisim" is incorrect in this context but we know what he means. Bigitory would be a much better word:

>1. The state of mind of a bigot; obstinate and unreasoning attachment of one's own belief
>and opinions, with narrow-minded intolerance of beliefs opposed to them.

However, I do not believe many Amiga users (Swedish or otherwise) are bigots but that said, it is easy to get that impression.

--

Nobody accused Mr Schönfeld of either, in any case it's not that unusual for smaller platforms to have to pay for what bigger platforms have for free (including drivers).

--

>I would like to think that the version of English used by English people, especially those
>who grew up near London, is the most standard version, but many people world wide
>might disagree.

Yes, only Bob Hoskins can speak proper English ;-)
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 108 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 11:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Fabio Alemagna):
"Those are environmental adaptations, and wherever there's the same environment there are also the same environmental adaptations, regardless of whether those people, living in different environments, far a part from one another, share their genes."

In the case of skin colour, the variation is basically the quantity of melanin. Simple variable, no doubt controlled by a small number of genes. I would expect anyone with a light skin to have a similar set of alleles of those genes, wherever they live. Similarly in the case of darker skin.

Nose shape is much more complex.

Of course we are always talking about the locations people lived in a few hundred years ago, before modern transport systems developed.

The objection to "racism" is that it puts value judgements on local variation, and that it claims correlation between variables such as nose shape and "intelligence" or morals. There is no evidence for such correlation. That doesn't mean that Norwegians and Nigerians are indistinguishable.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 109 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 19-Jul-2004 11:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (minator):
> From the Dictionary.com link for "Race":
> 1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less
> distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

Yes, but that's the exact point that modern biology deems fallacious. The dictionary reports it because that's what "race" also means.

You omissed point 2, which is the one that is relecant to the point I am making.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 110 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 19-Jul-2004 11:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (minator):
> From the Dictionary.com link for "Race":
> 1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less
> distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

Yes, but that's the exact point that modern biology deems fallacious. The dictionary reports it because that's what "race" also means.

You omissed point 2, which is the one that is relevant to the point I am making.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 111 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 19-Jul-2004 11:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Don Cox):
> Nose shape is much more complex.

It's more complext, but it's still an environmental adaptation. To the heat and humidity, to be more precise.


> The objection to "racism" is that it puts value judgements on local variation,
> and that it claims correlation between variables such as nose shape and
> "intelligence" or morals.

As said, racism is discrimination on the basis of the race (whatever "race" means in a given context), with malicious intents.

Since "race" has also a social meaning, we can easily distinguish the "blue" and "red" races within the Amiga community, and thus any discrimination based upon that definition of "race", with malicious intents, can be assimilated to "racism". Doubtless, it's a weaker form of racism than the one that caused wars and slavery, yet it's a form of racism, like it or not.

The fact that the term "bigotry" can also be used here doesn't mean that racism can't. As showed, bigotry and racism are mostly synomims, and depending on the context they can be exchanged.

> There is no evidence for such correlation. That doesn't mean that Norwegians
> and Nigerians are indistinguishable.

I can distinguish people from Milan from those from Naples, does that mean they belong to different races?
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 112 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by rez on 19-Jul-2004 11:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Don Cox):
That is total bullshit,I hope you are joking.
Sub species don't even exist in human case.
And a specie is defined by inter-reproduction and not by smoking criteria as yours. You are totally flawed.
I urge you to give some explications
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 113 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 19-Jul-2004 11:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (Fabio Alemagna):
@ Don Cox & Fabio

I never want to see either of you two insulting Samface next time he starts a 200 post marathon!!! :-)
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 114 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by rez on 19-Jul-2004 11:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (Don Cox):
Another time, bullshit to the best.
Stop your disgusting comments, you have no clue.
Stop, please.
sub species exist in your mentally ill world.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 115 of 469ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 108 (Don Cox):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Profanity
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 116 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 19-Jul-2004 11:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Stefan Burström):
Could someone please stop that bullshit about the Peg being sold under price ?

I mean how stupid must one be to actually believe in such a fairytale ??

Just because Eyetech thinks they have to make xxx$ per board to cover their fixed cost
with the 1st 1000 sold (which will also be the last 1000 with those prices), doesn't mean
that one can't produce boards at cheaper costs, and sell them with a lower margin in the
hope to recoup the invested money witha larger number of units sold.

And no, thats not "subsiding", thats just useing common sense.

The fall-out between Jens and BBRV all seem to come from a dispute on who had to pay
what part of the rent for the Aachen-show in 2002.

Looking at how "well" organized that event was, it comes at now suprise that such a dispute
happenend.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 117 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 19-Jul-2004 11:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Kronos):
I don't know wether or not the peg2 boards make any profit, and you know what? I don't care, it's not my business
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 118 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 19-Jul-2004 11:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (rez):
Ouch, my virtual ears are bleeding, would you stop screaming and insulting people, even if they may have incorrect information?
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 119 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by m0ns00n on 19-Jul-2004 11:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Darrin):
Christian :P There we have it again. Are we all christians now? Wake up! Europe is not christian!

Sorry to raise my voice.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 120 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 12:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (rez):
"Sub species don't even exist in human case."

There is the same range of local variation in humans as in other animals, giving easily visible genetically determined types. In any other species, these would be named as subspecies.

"And a species is defined by inter-reproduction and not by smoking criteria as yours. You are totally flawed."

I already said that all members of a species can interbreed freely, while members of different related species interbreed seldom or not at all. If members of one subspecies wander into another's area, they will interbreed freely. I don't see what you are arguing about here.

The singular of "species" is "species", not "specie".


"I urge you to give some explications"

Too many posts already. It only arose from somebody trying to apply the word "racism" to the local red-and-blue gang fights.

Ernst Mayr is a good author to read on species and races. He has written many books.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 121 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 12:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (Fabio Alemagna):
"I can distinguish people from Milan from those from Naples, does that mean they belong to different races?"

A splitter would name them as different subspecies, if they can be reliably distinguished. The interest would be that if you find an obvious Milanese in Naples, that shows that they wander that far.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 122 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 19-Jul-2004 12:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (Don Cox):
"Because it is more useful and more practical than the new junk. New != better." Humm.. There are only two things missing from an Amiga: joystick ports and floppy controller. They have their advantages. But the thing I don't understand is that why people still think they constantly need Amiga floppies or digital joysticks? How many is going to play old OCS games on A1/Peg every day? I know you have got CW Mk3. How often you needed Amiga floppies? Is it just you may need it but in practise you never use it? Don't get me wrong. CW Mk3/Mk4 is nice piece of hardware. But personally I only see it as a SID card with retro add-ons. Now if it had Paula chip for old Amiga replayers there...
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 123 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Burström on 19-Jul-2004 12:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Kronos):
>Could someone please stop that bullshit about the Peg being sold under price ?

Care to tell me why this is bullshit? So far, no one has provided a BOM for a Pegasos MB so I can only base my speculation on the information I have at hand.
Oh, btw, a part of my professional job is to design cost effective consumer electronics, so I think I have a fair amont of knowledge of the actual costs associated with PCB manufacturing.

>I mean how stupid must one be to actually believe in such a fairytale ??

Apparently stupid enough to work as a well payed, well respected engineer designing consumer electronics in the 100k units / year range...

>hope to recoup the invested money witha larger number of units sold.

Well, to be able to do any volume estimation, you actually have to make a profit on each board sold NOW. You cannot calculate this on expected sales if you imagine you will sell x amount of boards. The cost of the components is still the same even if you dream about multi million sales.

>And no, thats not "subsiding", thats just useing common sense.

Well, most startups are subsidising their hardware in the beginning to make it attractive. But normally this is subsidised with VC money. When the VC money most companies go bust, but apparently Genesi have had a magnificent way of attracting people to work for them for free with promises of money in the future. Of which very few have seen any.

>The fall-out between Jens and BBRV all seem to come from a dispute on who had to pay what part of the rent for the Aachen-show in 2002.

Well, whatever cash flow out that Genesi can stop is a good thing for them and in the end it helps them selling boards at a lower price. So don't tell me it isn't connected in any way.

regards,
Stefan
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 124 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Gelb on 19-Jul-2004 12:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Stefan Burström):
>Quite easy actually. The USERS of a cheap, subsidised mainboard are happy
> because they have cheap hardware. However, they did not pay the actual cost
> of the hardware. Instead, it was paid for by other individuals like Jens that
> wasn't paid for the services they offered.

This is the most rediculous stuff I've read this year. The brainwashing worked quite well for you it seems.

I don't know how many times it has to be said to get it into little minds like yours. The Pegasos is not sold at a loss to get Eyetech out of business.

I find it rather sad that you abuse your pseudo celebrity status in such a way. Shame on you.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 125 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Jul-2004 12:41 GMT
>Are you also going into a super market and complain that the bottle of milk is more expensive than directly from the farm? No. You just know that it takes a little more effort to haul it to your town, and accept the higher price.

Whether you plan to drink it, or use it to make cakes,... the price is the *same*.

I'm sorry but the Pegasos drivers development cost must not be higher than MacOSX (MAC required) + Windows (PC required) + OS4 (AOne required) all unified.
So why should Pegasos drivers be available for an aditionnal charge ?
Why don't you deduce the develpment costs of OSX, Windows drivers for someone who's planning to use the card only on AmigaOne then...

Stop trying to justifiate your hatred for bbrv with these stupid nonsense charges for MOS drivers...
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 126 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Burström on 19-Jul-2004 12:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (Gelb):
>This is the most rediculous stuff I've read this year. The brainwashing worked quite well for you it seems.

Hm, well, then I suppose I have been brain washed enough here at work too where we cannot get the costs down to what we want. Apparently the brain washing has worked quite well on you though since I cannot see anything in your statement that actually builds some confidence behind what you write.

>I don't know how many times it has to be said to get it into little minds like yours. The Pegasos is not sold at a loss to get Eyetech out of business.

And I don't know how many times I have to say this to idiots like you that this isn't about Eyetech. I couldn't care less what Eyetech charges for their board. You know why? Because it is their frecking decision. Not mine, nor yours.
However, what I don't like is that clueless people like you constantly compare Eyetech with Genesi without comparing apples to apples!

>I find it rather sad that you abuse your pseudo celebrity status in such a way. Shame on you.

Dunno whay 'pseudo celibrity status' I get from working as a systems architect at Anoto. If you refer to me as the author of IBrowse, then I don't have a clue how that would give me any knowledge of consumer electronics. If I wasn't the author of IBrowse, would you trust my professional opinon more then?

Before you reply, here is a little homework for you to do. Do some research and
figoure out the actual PCB cost of a Pegasos based on a production run of 500-1000 boards. No components, no manufacturing no nothing. Just the PCB cost of a prototype run.
Until you have done so please be quiet.

regards,
Stefan
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 127 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Gelb on 19-Jul-2004 12:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 126 (Stefan Burström):
Obviously you are not able or be willing to break out of your small little world where everything you experience is right and the experiences of others are wrong. You have shown this in the past and you show it again.

Maybe it would be possible for you to just ask bplan what a production run including parts costs and you might get enlightened. If can't do so (returning the idiot), you idiot, be quiet.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 128 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 19-Jul-2004 13:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Stefan Burström):
"The Pegasos users may be happy for a short while the Pegasos is cheap, but the truth is that it doesn't finance itself." If Pegasos/MorphOS goes down there is still Windows. I can't lose.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 129 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 19-Jul-2004 13:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (m0ns00n):
>Christian :P There we have it again. Are we all christians now? Wake up!
> Europe is not christian!

I think you're replying to the wrong post here.

You're "preaching to the converted", I'm an atheist :-)
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 130 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Burström on 19-Jul-2004 13:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 127 (Gelb):
>Obviously you are not able or be willing to break out of your small little world where everything you experience is right and the experiences of others are wrong. You have shown this in the past and you show it again.

Care to elaborate what experience you are refering to? So far, I havn't seen any credible source that would indicate the BOM for a pegasos. All I have seen are statements from people like you who obviously has bought into Genesis propaganda. However, if that is outside my small world, then I and the rest of the 99.99% people in the world will continue to live in it.

>Maybe it would be possible for you to just ask bplan what a production run including parts costs and you might get enlightened. If can't do so (returning the idiot), you idiot, be quiet.

Seriously. Do you think that bPlan would give out their production costs to anyone outside the company? Talk about beeing in deep shit! If they did the following 2 cases would happen:
1. Their hardware is actually dirt cheap and I am wrong. But in that case everybody would know their margin and they would be in a bad negotiation position.
2. Their BOM is higher than the price of the board and they would be in an even worse position since then all of a sudden most of you would be forced to accept the truth and wouldn't be able to defend them like you do.

Until then, I can only base my information on the information I have at hand which includes prices from some of the largest electronics suppliers in the world. And that only proves my case.
So, you asked me to do the impossible where as I did actually give you a quite easy task to do and still you failed.
I'll make it easier for you:
Provide us with the average cost of a 8x10" 6 layers board with microvias between layer 1-2 and 5-6 for a production run of around 500-1000 boards.
It is rather easy, just use google.
And while you are at it, why don't you figure out the usual relationship between the actual BOM of a product and the end user price for most consumer electronics today.

The ball is in your hand again (well, it never left really)

regards,
Stefan
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 131 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by headnut on 19-Jul-2004 13:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Jens Schoenfeld):
you are one funny guy!

did you actually read what you posted? That's really too funny.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 132 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Adam Waldenberg on 19-Jul-2004 13:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Jens Schoenfeld):
I also see it as a kind of fraud and missleading of the consumer if there is support when you buy a product and the support is then suddenly ceased. You then send a mail and get a "please sell you'r board if you aren't happy." when you try to get support... And YOU KNOW damn well what I'm talking about. I will never buy a product from you again. In my eyes, the money I paid for the board is money stolen from me.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 133 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 19-Jul-2004 13:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (Adam Waldenberg):
"I also see it as a kind of fraud and missleading of the consumer if there is support when you buy a product and the support is then suddenly ceased."

Sounds pretty normal.

Like advertised dualG4 support of peg1 and all the truckload of missing (but advertised) MOS features in y2002-2003.

And I personally wish M$, MSI or VIA still supported the MSI motherboard I have @ home, but no, no (UDMA) support any more...

btw. have you asked for the refund of the product that you bought?
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 134 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by snowblood on 19-Jul-2004 14:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Fabio Alemagna):
"homo sapiens" is the biological 'race'. So all humans are part of the same 'race'. Everything else are just inacurate information of #out-dated# theories. Simple.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 135 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Jupp3 on 19-Jul-2004 14:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (Adam Waldenberg):
I bought Hypercom 3+, and asked how to disable the FIFO buffer on serial ports. I got a reply, that it can't be done at the transfer speeds I required.

And having a FIFO buffer that can't be disabled makes a serial port quite useless... (What you're likely to connect to one anyway? Graphics tablet is about the only "sensible" device I can think of... For transfering data serial port is always SLOW)

Well, ended up buying a better I/O card second hand (A2232), which has served me well.

(Yeah, I should have asked about such "trivial" feature before buying the said board...)
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 136 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Toner on 19-Jul-2004 14:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (Anonymous):
> So why should Pegasos drivers be available for an additionnal charge ?

Why did Elbox originally sell Mediator hardware and then sell the driver CD seperately? (As I understand the CD is now included withthe hardware, but perhaps that's just a package deal of two products or something...)
If that's how the guy decides to do it, that's how he decides to do it. It's not your decision to make how he markets his products, be it hardware or software products. You have no special rights or anything to demand free stuff. Either you are willing to pay the price he determines, or you don't use the thing, take your money elsewhere and let him decide if the number of sales lost to Pegasos users not willing to pay is good or bad for him.

Personally, I'm really tired of people around here demanding free stuff. You're not entitled to it. If someone decides to give you something for free, you should be happy about that, but should not get spoiled and take it for granted and demand that everyone else with a software product should and must do the same for you.

When the Radeon drivers were announced for AmigaOS, people were writing in that Forefront had no right to charge money to sell drivers that ran on a different company's (ie. ATI's) hardware. One guy even told us outright he didn't care if Amiga developers have bills to pay, that our work should and must be given away for free, even after we ourselves paid for hardware to do the work on. For some reason, the In my opinion, if you don't want to pay a small fee for Radeon drivers, then use a Voodoo3 or something else where the price is more in line with whatever you believe to be fair to you. As it is, I'll be happy if we get our development hardware investment returned, I don't expect to ever be fairly paid for the labor involved. But I wanted something better than a Voodoo3 in my own Amiga, so far that reason I'm willing to do this as some extent of charity to the community. Jens has the right to make his own decisions whether is is willing to do that or not. There are likely other things happening behind the scenes that you don't know about affecting his pricing decisions for each platform, which may not have anything to do with his disagreements with BBRV that you go on about. I suppose there could be some chance that this is jsut because of his disagreements with BBRV you talk about, but that's still his decision to go with if it would be true, though I'd be quite suprised to see that as the sole reason for such a business decision on this topic.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 137 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Adam Waldenberg on 19-Jul-2004 14:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 133 (priest):
It's not the same thing either... I bought this board a little more than a year ago just to use it in my pegasos, nothing else. And as I said; I was told to sell my card on ebay if I didn't like it. Just saying something like that is very unproffesional.

Regarding yout troubles... when you buy a motherboard, drivers should be included with it... When it comes to PCI/AGP boards, drivers should be included with thoose boards. And dualg4 has not yet arrived for pegasos, has it? So atleast nobody bought one and waited for a working driver. Ceasing/Not supporting a platform with a NEW product is common... But ceasing support for an existing product is not as common.

Would you buy a product from a company that did that to you shortly after you bought something from them? I wouldn't... And won't.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 138 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 19-Jul-2004 14:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 136 (Bill Toner):
Well said Bill.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 139 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 19-Jul-2004 14:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 137 (Adam Waldenberg):
Are you saying that you bought something from Jens to run on your Pegasos which didn't have Pegasos drivers? So why did you buy it then???

Why don't you put some diesel in your petrol driven car? That sounds equally fun too.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 140 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 14:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 122 (itix):
"But the thing I don't understand is that why people still think they constantly need Amiga floppies or digital joysticks?"

The floppies have been discussed many times. Some of us have boxes and boxes full of Amiga floppies. It is usually easier to install a program from the original floppies than from a backup on CD.

There are two reasons to want an Amiga mouse port. One is that you can connect any simple switch to one to trigger an event such as playing an animation. This is good for kiosks or for installations. It is dead simple and requires no knowledge of electronics or programming of custom chips.

The second is that the Marconi trackball which was sold for Amigas a while back is still a very high quality input device. It uses an actual pool ball, proper steel ball races, and heavy duty switches for the buttons. Anything I see in the shops now is a tacky little toy. I want to go on using mine. They will probably go on working for another 20 years.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 141 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Adam Waldenberg on 19-Jul-2004 14:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (Darrin):
Before you open your mouth, and make idiotic comments, make sure you know what you are talking about.

There ARE pegasos drivers, and there WAS proper support previously. Why would I buy it otherwhise?

People like you really crack me up.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 142 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 14:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (Anonymous):
"I'm sorry but the Pegasos drivers development cost must not be higher than MacOSX (MAC required) + Windows (PC required) + OS4 (AOne required) all unified."

It is if they already have the other hardware but have to buy a pair of new Pegasoses. Seems simple to me.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 143 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by headnut on 19-Jul-2004 14:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (Darrin):
hey squadleader, did you already used your brain today?
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 144 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 14:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (snowblood):
The correct way to write a biological name is with a capital for the noun and lowercase for the adjective: Homo sapiens

That is the name of a species. There are no recognised names for subspecies of man, unless the Neanderthals are regarded as a subspecies (unlikely).

The usual meaning of "race" refers to a subset of Homo sapiens, but there is also the expression "the human race", meaning all of us. That's why it makes more sense to talk about subspecies, or "geographical races".
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 145 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 19-Jul-2004 14:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 140 (Don Cox):
"Some of us have boxes and boxes full of Amiga floppies. It is usually easier to install a program from the original floppies than from a backup on CD." I can only wonder. I used my A1200 5 years (from 1998 to 2003) without any floppy drive. I know I might need my IBrowse 1.0 install disk in some day again, but OTOH I doubt I could find patches to upgrade installation into version 1.22 anyway... so... maybe it is just me who can't see the point.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 146 of 469ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 144 (Don Cox):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Profanity
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 147 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 19-Jul-2004 14:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (headnut):
>hey squadleader, did you already used your brain today?

Quiet in the cheap seats please. Either address your superiors in English or re-insert your head in your rectum.

Now fall out. You're dismissed.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 148 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 19-Jul-2004 14:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 145 (itix):
Well, I use my Catweasel Mk3 so that I can use an A4000 keyboard on my AmigaOne, and so that I can have real SID sound for tunes and emulators. Soon I'll be able to use my CD32 pad on there also.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 149 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 19-Jul-2004 14:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 148 (Peter Gordon):
... when i get a Mk4 of course ;)
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 150 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 19-Jul-2004 14:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 137 (Adam Waldenberg):
"It's not the same thing either... I bought this board a little more than a year ago just to use it in my pegasos, nothing else."

Just out of curiosity, what was the board you bought? Catweasel flipper, or?

" And as I said; I was told to sell my card on ebay if I didn't like it. Just saying something like that is very unproffesional. "

That sounds harsh and unprofessional. If the board really was sold as pegasos compatible.

"Regarding yout troubles... when you buy a motherboard, drivers should be included with it..."

They were. ((In W98 ethernet drivers or TCP/IP seemed to leak memory (UDMA worked just fine).
I got W2000 to get over that problem. With all the latest drivers+BIOS all those MSI motherboards crash with w2000 if UDMA is used. I though y99 motherboards would have a little longer usability...))

"And dualg4 has not yet arrived for pegasos, has it? So atleast nobody bought one and waited for a working driver."

Somebody could have bought it because of the promised dual G4 support and those (missing) features. I'm absolutely sure that it was nowhere mentioned that things like digital sound or firewire did not yet work.
(I know that digital sound & firewire works nowdays, though. Even G4 exists, though it was cancelled once.)

IMO: In the advertising it should be clearly said what works and what not (otherwise it's fraud). Then, if there is not yet existing support for something (like A1XE audio), one should buy the product only after considering that the audio might never really work.

" Ceasing/Not supporting a platform with a NEW product is common... But ceasing support for an existing product is not as common. "

hmmm... What could I call the situation when I asked for a fix (of the color distortion of my phase5 scandoubler), I was told that "that's just the way it works" and later (after the warranty ended, and phase5 died) I found out that the same problem was fixed for some people...

>Would you buy a product from a company that did that to you shortly after you bought something from them? I wouldn't... And won't.

MSI (and M$) are the first ones I have the possibility to perform that act. (if not counting ex-phase5)
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