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[News] Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4ANN.lu
Posted on 18-Jul-2004 12:20 GMT by Jens Schönfeld469 comments
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During the first months of this year, we were totally surprised by the overwhelming demand for Catweasel MK3. All stock has been sold, and even our retail partners do not have anything left in stock. The demand was so high that one controller even went for more than 150,- EUR on eBay!
Unfortunately, it turned out that a new production run of the existing MK3-design cannot be done for reasonable prices, so a re-design became necessary. The new controller is now in the first stage before mass production, so we're confident to be able to show the first controllers at the Amiwest show on july 24th and 25th in Sacramento, Califoria.

Many improvements have been made compared to the Catweasel MK3 that can be summarized under the headline "bigger, better, faster". The changes in detail

The most obvious change is the size of the card: With only 2.5 inch (63.5mm) height, it complies with the low-profile PCI standard that not only fits into any normal computer case, but also in flat models that are so famous among so-called "case-modders". The Flipper-interface will not be continued. Those who need a Catweasel for their classic Amiga can use the Catweasel Z-II S-Class, which is still availble.

Improvements on the floppy controller
Kylwalda built in
While the old Catweasel models always had their own floppy drives that were installed in addition to the existing controller and drives, the MK4 has the option of using the existing diskdrives. After the machine has started, th drives can be used just like before, and after the drivers have been loaded, the Catweasel can take control of these drives when necessary. This is especially useful for smaller cases with fewer drive bays.
We already addressed this problem earlier with an additional product called 'Kylwalda'.

Suppot for auto-eject drives
These drives without eject-button are well-known from Macintosh computers, and they're now fully supported by the Catweasel. You can also mix floppy types, one with an eject-button, and another from the Macintosh world on the same cable.

Hard-sectored disks supported
This kind of 5.25 and 8 inch disks were already readable with the previous Catweasel models, but writing was only possible with a high software effort, and it required a realtime operating system. This effort is not necessary any more with the new controller, because new options allow complete support of these disk types in hardware.

dual-ported memory
Contrary to it's predecessors, the new Catweasel MK4 can pass the data that it is currently reading from a disk to the computer while the read access is running. This allows realtime emulation, and errorfree function of copy-protected software on emulators.

more flexible read- and write operations
In addition to working on whole tracks, which made all previous Catweasel models so flexible, tracks can now also be accesed in part very precisely. Should this become necessary for compatibility or speed reasons, the Catweasel MK4 is perfectly prepared.

extensive timer-functions
Although most operating systems already offer timer-functions in software, you cannot always rely on them. The most recent example are the timing-problems that occur with Hyperthreading-processors and Windows operating systems. Since all timers are running independantly in the hardware of the Catweasel MK4, nothing can go wrong in this regard.

all events can trigger an interrupt (IRQ)
Together with the hardware-timer functions, this is the best solution for multitasking operating systems. The driver software does not have to check regularly if the controller needs attention, which reduces the processor load.

Improvements on the keyboard interface

In addition to Amiga-keyboards, PS/2 devices can now also be connected. Not only keyboards, but also PS/2 mice are supported. The keyboard controller can now trigger IRQs, and for those customers who want to continue using their favourite combination of PS/2 mouse and keyboard on USB-only computers, the Catweasel MK4 has two connectors of this kind.

Improvements on the joystick ports

Amiga mice supported in hardware
Amiga mice only have minimal electronics that always pass the movements of the device to the computer in realtime. Classic Amiga computers have hardware-support for interpretation of these signals in the chipset, and this support has now been added to the Catweasel. Theoretically, using Amiga mice was already possible with the Catweasel MK3, but this required a software effort that was not justifiable. With the new hardware, the software effort is reduced to a minimum.

every signal can be programmed as output
The digital joystick ports of the 8-bit computers of the 80s were mostly usable in two directions, they were not only inputs, but also programmable as data outputs. We're following this tradition, and also present this possibility for the Catweasel MK4.

compatible with CD32 pads
The game controllers of the Amiga CD32 can now also be used on the Catweasel. A special capability of the classic Amigas (and therefore also of the CD32) made these pads exclusive for this computer, if connected to other computers, not all buttons of the pad could be used. Technically speaking: Even the potentiometer-pins of the digital joystick ports can be programmed as outputs on the Catweasel MK4.

Improvements on the SID audio part

DC-DC converter eliminates noise
On the Catweasel MK3, it was possible that noises from 3D-graphics cards or high-speed harddrives were coupled into the 12V-power supply of the SID audio part. This cannot happen any more on the Catweasel MK4, because a DC-DC converter is an insuperable obstacle for such noises.

cycle-exact control
In addition to the known programming that's compatible with the Catweasel MK3, the MK4 has a sophisticated script-language for SID control. This lets the programmer define the exact time for data that's being written into the SID chips. To make sample playback sound exactly like on a real C64, the data rate to the SID chip must be kept at a constant rate. This is accomplished with Fifo memory that's big enough to maintain the datarate even under high processor load conditions.

Digiboost for new SID versions
As opposed to the 'classic SID' 6581, the newer SID-chips 8580 and 6582 cannot playback samples any more. This option, which is also called 'the fourth voice', is replaced by two sigma-delta converters on the Catweasel MK4, so the fourth channel is also audible with the newer SID versions. Since the filter properties and the sound of mixed waveforms of all SID versions have their supporters, this should make the decision for the right chip a little easier.

Filter capacitors selectable
Commodore has defined three different capacitor values for the filters of the SIDs during the years that this chip has been produced. The result was that the same chip sounded differently if used in different computers. To bring the sound as close as possible to what you are used to, the filter capacitors can be chosen with a few jumpers.

precise clocking
The Catweasel MK3 used the commodore-chip 8701 to recreate the exact same clock. Since our stock of this chip is empty with the Catweasel MK3 being sold out, we have cloned it on the main logic chip of the Catweasel MK4: The exact base frequency is generated with crystals that have been made especially for us. By division and multiplication according to the specifications of the C64 schematics from 1982, we managed to replace the 8701, which is not made any more. Even the slight difference between PAL and NTSC computers is software-selectable!

two SIDs for stereo sound
You'll have twice the SID pleaseure after installing a second SID chip. Every SID has it's own selection of filter capacitors, and SIDs of all versions can be mixed.

Technology improvements

compatible with 3.3V and 5V PCI slots
Even though PC boards with 3.3V PCI slots are not yet widely available, the Catweasel is prepared for it. The roadmap of the PCI special interst group plans to abandon 5V PCI slots within forseeable time, and the Catweasel is perfectly suited for that date. Local generation of the 3.3V power also ensures proper function on early PCI motherboards that do not comply with the ATX standard.

two DMA interfaces
In addition to processor-based data transfer, the Catweasel MK4 can excahnge data with the main system through two low-speed DMA channels: The first goes throught he PCI slot, and it has a capacity of about 8K per second and direction. The second uses the direct connection to the onboard-floppy controller, and the speed is up to 100K per second.

low power consumption
The Catweasel MK4 makes use of the latest FPGA technology with 2.5V core voltage. This reduces the power consumption of the new controller to a fraction of what the Catweasel MK3 used. This also reduces heat generation a lot.

re-configurable logic
The FPGA on the Catweasel MK4 is completely re-configurable by the drivers. This means that a hardware update can be done through the internet! Should we find a disk format that cannot be handled with the current hardware, the core of the Catweasel can be 're-wired' to address the problem. The controller doesn't even have to be taken out of the computer for ths update!

drivers for many operating systems
The Catweasel MK4 is delivered with drivers for Windows 98(se)/ME/XP/2000, Amiga OS4, and for Mac OS X at a later date. MorphOS drivers are available for a surcharge.

The Catweasel MK4 will be available starting october 2004.
The target retail price is 99,- EUR.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 51 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 18-Jul-2004 21:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Fabio Alemagna):
Fabio, you are quite wrong. The term "racism" does imply discrimination on the basis of skin colour. It also has particularly abhorrent implications when you suggest some is a "racist".

To compare dislike of a computer platform to "racism" is idiotic at best, and malicious at worst.

Jans may not get on with the MorphOS people. Fine, there's nothing wrong or unusual there. If he feels the only way he will support them is by charging for that support, it's his choice, just as it his product. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it.

It's funny how people scream "discrimination" in outrage only when it is THEIR chosen platform that's not being supported. When something that is available for them is not available to others as a result of a political decision, they are usually the first ones to rub it in.

Rather than complain about Jens decision to support MOS at a cost, how about pestering Hyperion and Genesi for not co-operating with each other? If anyone's been splitting the community, it's them.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 52 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X2 on 18-Jul-2004 22:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Graham_NLI):
> A Catweasel is essential for anyone running a data recovery service. There's more than a few of them. One data recovery contract for a business that needs some records stored on old media can make back the cost of the catweasel and whatever drives are attached to it.

This is exactly what I was thinking.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 53 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 18-Jul-2004 22:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Bill Hoggett):
> Fabio, you are quite wrong.

Yes? On the basis of what you say that? PErsonal experienc? Common belief? Studies?

> The term "racism" does imply discrimination on the
> basis of skin colour.

All the term racism implies is discrimination on the basis of the race.

Now, it all boils down to what "race" means. What you are saying is that distinguishing people on the basis of their "races" and distinguishing people on the basis of their skin colour is exactly the same thing. In other words, you're saying that a particular "race" is nothing more than a group of people with the same skin.

That's obviously not what the term "race" has ever been invented for.

> It also has particularly abhorrent implications when you suggest some is a
> "racist".

In the most common meaning, yes. However, words have so many different and similar meanings, and the world is not black and white. You should learn to undress of your stereotypes.

In the most general sense, saying someone is a racist simply means that this person discriminates people on tbe basis of a certain set of characteristics. That's all.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 54 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 18-Jul-2004 22:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Fabio Alemagna):
> In the most general sense, saying someone is a racist simply means that this
> person discriminates people on tbe basis of a certain set of characteristics...

... with malicious intentions.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 55 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 18-Jul-2004 22:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Fabio Alemagna):
>> If there are no races, there also can not be racism.

> I beg your pardon, but that's a quite a stupid - and superficial - statement.

It is a simple statement, as simple as it _should_ be.

> There are no biological races, which doesn't mean there are no perceived "races". Race doesn't have only a biological meaning, you know?

Using the term in other than biological terms is bogus in my eyes, go figure.

> It's got to do with society, cultures, behaviours, all those kind of things.

No it doesnt, for that we have other terms, such as ethnicity.

> People do have a tendency to classify other people on the basis of a
> multitude of elements, and each of those classifications gives light to a
> new "race". That's the only meaning of race that is applicable to humans.

Your "races" are ethnic groups, not races.

>> When Ghandi, Mandela and others have talked about "peace and understanding
>> between people of different races and colours" are you saying they were all
>> talking out of their asses?

> Form a biological standpoint, yes. From a social one, from the point of
> view of someone who needs to bring a certain kind of message (that is, no
> more racism), then no.

So, by your logic, any discrimiation of humans is racism, no matter what, and whenever I need to get a visum to enter a country while you as a EU citizen do not need one, I can scream racism?

>> When the current South African constitution has an article that says "The
>> state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone
>> on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital
>> status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age,
>> disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth."
>> are you suggesting that it is bogus because it use the term "race" in
>> there?

> The term "race" is simply redundant there, because all other terms already
> cover what "race" is intended to cover. From a biological point of view,
> yes, that specific term is bogus, which doesn't render the whole sentence
> bogus.

So why is it there? I mean, this is the brand new constituion of not any country, but South Africa. I would assume they have their reasons to keep it there, and this reasons is very real.

>> Personally I hate it when people shove facts and terms under a carpet just
>> because it is political uncorrect. Yes, there are human races, the human
>> spieces doesnt differ from others in that.
>
> Sorry, but you're simply, blatantly, amazingly, enormously wrong.
>
> There's no biological justification to "races" when applied to humans (and
> also to some other species), individuales withind the same "race" differ as
> much from each other, genetically speaking, as people from different
> "races".

Yes, and same applies for dogs - newsflash: races is not about genetical _differences_, it is about physiological characteristica. And for that there are plenty of biological justification, both simple practical use as for describing looks, or even medical.

>> I dont grasp why that shall be so hard to swallow. Next we'll be told that
>> there are no genders, and that sexism also is just another general term for
>> discrimination.

> It's not "hard to shallow", it's simply incorrect.

What is incorrect is to use the term where it does not apply.

> Perhaps an historical background will make you reflect a bit. Do you know
> who was the first to talk about "human races"? It was Johann Friedrich
> Blumenbach, a German naturalist, 1n 1795, in the third edition of "De
> Generis Humani Varietate Nativa", his seminal work. Mr. Blumenbach came up
> with a very interesting name for a group of people counting millions of
> individuals, a name we still hear today. Said Mr. decided it was a good idea
> to collect European, North Africans, western Asians, all light skinned,
> as... caucasians. The reasoning behind this decision was at least as
> "interesting" and, nowadays, everyone with a grain of salt would judge them
> hilarious, at the best.

Considering the "normal" view at the time, that non-caucatians were most liekly animals... thumbs up, at least he classified them as humans.

> Mr. Blumenbach's argumentation was that
>
> 1) people from the Caucasian region were the most beautiful, and
> 2) probabily humans were first created in that area.

> Of course, claim n. 1 is entirely bogus and void of anything remotely scientific.

Ofcourse, but it was also the general oppinion among caucatians at the time, and hence politcal correct. People from elsewhere on the planet would most likely disagree though. :)

> Claim n. 2, is bogus as well, on the basis of modern theories that say that
> humanity as we know it originated from Central Africa.

It doesnt matter where human kind originates, but it still considered good science to assume that most, if not all, current caucatian groups of people
have origin in the nearabouts of Caucasus.

> Now that you know what the expression "human races" exists at all, don't you
> feel just a little bit ashamed that you endorse such an old fashioned and
> useless and meaningless way of cathegorizing humans?

If you find it useless and meaningless, that is your problem, I on the other hand have no trouble with the concept of cathegorizing humans on certain physiologial characteristica, when that serves a meaningfull purpose.

I notice however that you have no trouble of using the same term when cathegorizing humans not only on physiological, but also ethnical and sociological characteristica. In my view, that is bogus, no only to the original biological concept of races, but also because it brings even more political tension to the already over abused term.

Game of thoughts.. what if scientists found out that human kind actually did origin form the Caucasus and that there actually were significal genetical differences between different races - would that make racism ok for you? I very much doubt it, at least I hope not, so what's the point?
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 56 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 18-Jul-2004 22:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Fabio Alemagna):
As should be quite clear by now, I found the use of "racism" in comment 36 quite flawed, hence my answer. The apropriate term would be discrimination and in the context of comment 36 quite bearable yes.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 57 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X2 on 18-Jul-2004 22:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Jens Schönfeld):
> The additional cost for MorphOS drivers still needs to be set. We'll need two PegII mainboards, one for the developer, and another for me. Depending on the delivery time of these, and of course the cost of them, the price and release date will be set.

Seems fair. Did Eyetech send you some A1's for free to develop the OS4 version?

Would you also like the community backing the pegasos to kick in some investment money for development?

HHHow about some investment money so you can license the the ODW/pegasos spec from Freescale (when it becomes available) and build your own PPC boards with the catweasel hardware built-in. This sounds like a great idea to me.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 58 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 18-Jul-2004 22:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
Is this the asymptotic approach to Godwin's Law?
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 59 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 18-Jul-2004 22:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
No point in discussing this further, since this is entirely OT and since we'll never agree. I stand by my opinion shared by many (the majority of them, actually) modern biologists.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 60 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X2 on 18-Jul-2004 22:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Don Cox):
> The ingenuity and originality of Jens' designs is most impressive. I wish he would design a motherboard with all this built in.

EXACTLY!
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 61 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 18-Jul-2004 22:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Joe "Floid" Kanowitz):
Dang, you got me there :)
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 62 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 19-Jul-2004 03:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Fabio Alemagna):
>In any case, you've failed to answer to my last question: do you think such a
>behaviour, regardless of whether you call it racism or not, is good, or even
>just bearable?

This behaviour is simply a sound business practice. When one of my businesses receives goods from a supplier I have to take into account all of the costs involved in obtaining and marketing those goods before I price them for sale (unit cost, shipping, handling, packaging, etc). Jens apparently doesn't own a Pegasos. In order to produce drivers for the Pegasos he needs a Pegasos system to develop on. Purchasing this system will cost him MONEY so he will need to recover those costs from the sales.

Now, he has a few choices:

1. Buy the Pegasos system and divide its cost over ALL of the boards sold.
2. Buy the Pegasos system and recover its cost by selling the Pegasos drivers as a seperate entity (risky, because these could be pirated).
3. Don't make any Pegasos drivers and don't sell to the Pegasos market.

As he is obviously trying to keep both his costs as low as possible and keep the MSRP of the product as low as possible, it appears that he does not want to pass the Pegasos drivers cost onto the people who wish to run the CW on hardware he already owns. Makes sense - lower price, more sales.

So what is the problem?

Of course, someone could donate a whole Pegasos system to Jens for development then I'm sure he'd appreciate it. Note, I said Pegasos SYSTEM. Sending him a motherboard, expecting him to spend time, effort and money (hard drive, CD ROM, RAM, case, PSU, etc) building a system and installing MorphOS is a bit much.

Surely there must be a bunch of old "developers" Pegasos 1's out there gathering dust?
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 63 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 19-Jul-2004 03:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Darrin):
Sorry Fabio - I quoted you when you were talking about something entirely different. I'd meant to quote and reply to another comment complaining how unfair having to pay extra for MOS drivers was. Duhh!!!! Excuse me while I go outside and kick myself...
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 64 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Jens Schoenfeld on 19-Jul-2004 06:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Darth_X2):
No, Eyetech did not give me the boards for free. However, they made a good price, which I see as a friendly gesture.

About making my own PPC board: I would not license a design that's outdated by definition. As you might have seen on the C-One and the Catweasel MK4, I believe that re-configurable hardware is what future computers are built from. FPGA densities are fairly close to what's necessary to make a North bridge at reasonable prices - maybe two more years.

Jens Schoenfeld
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 65 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous Orc on 19-Jul-2004 07:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Emeric SH):
> This racism will kill the community, like it or not.


how dare you compare the platform advocacy that is in this community to the
real nasty stuff that embitters people across the world and is FAR more dangerous and problematic, ie racism?

trying to say that A1 v's Pegasos is racism is belittling the real issue of race
hatred and poisonous ideas of the vitriolic people who propagate and support racism.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 66 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by kalmar on 19-Jul-2004 07:05 GMT
Hi Jens, that looks like a very fine bit of hardware and software design.
Keep up the good work!
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 67 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 19-Jul-2004 07:20 GMT
Thanks Jens!
I'll surely get this for my next Amiga-like machine.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 68 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 07:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (itix):
"Can't imagine any reason to use Amiga floppies or mice or joysticks in 2004."

Some of us have hundreds of Amiga floppies with data on. Although in principle they could all be copied to CD, there is often a lot of writing on the label, and it becomes quite a large job.

The Marconi joystick for Amigas has no modern equivalent. It is very much better than a mouse. Certainly worth paying for a Catweasel so as to be able to use it.

The Amiga mouse port is ideal for all kinds of simple interface experiments using just switches or pots. It can also be used as an output, and it supplies power.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 69 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 07:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Fabio Alemagna):
"Given that there's no thing as "races" when talking about humans (yes, that's right, there are no races)."

Biologically, there are subspecies with clearly defined characteristics - certainly with much greater differences than in many recognised subspecies of other mammals. Apartheid could also be seen as incipient speciation.

Subspecies commonly arise as a result of adaptation to local climatic conditions.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 70 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 07:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Darth_X2):
"> Realistically, how many Pegasos owners will buy a MK 4 Catweasel? I guess 40.

Are you including yourself? :)"

I'm not a Pegasos owner.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 71 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 07:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Darth_X2):
"How about some investment money so you can license the the ODW/pegasos spec from Freescale (when it becomes available) and build your own PPC boards with the catweasel hardware built-in. This sounds like a great idea to me."

Why would Jens need to license the Pegasos spec? He could design his own board.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 72 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 19-Jul-2004 07:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (itix):
"Can't imagine any reason to use Amiga floppies or mice or joysticks in 2004."

In 2004 I have:
- 500 Amiga DD/HD floppies that might not all be available in CD-ROM format.
- a few tens of 5,25" C64 floppies that I also would like to read someday.
- Competition Pro CD32 pad that I would like to use
- I also have two of the all time greatest Arcade -joystics
- I want more than just one joystic port, I think I would find dome use also for extra mouse.

I'm sure I'm not the only one....
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 73 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 07:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Jens Schoenfeld):
"About making my own PPC board: I would not license a design that's outdated by definition. As you might have seen on the C-One and the Catweasel MK4, I believe that re-configurable hardware is what future computers are built from. FPGA densities are fairly close to what's necessary to make a North bridge at reasonable prices - maybe two more years."

Now that is something to look forward to. Maybe we could have a real Amiga again, that is not just standard hardware pressed into service to emulate an Amiga.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 74 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 19-Jul-2004 07:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Stevo):
" ..makes me wonder about the financial status of Hyperion/Eyetech/KMOS. At least Genesi is making some money by selling Peg2's to Freescale + "possible other companys" + individuals."

Pegasos price still makes me wonder how it's enough to cover the R&D of the HW and R&D of the OS.

"I wonder how Hyperion/Eyetech/KMOS keep their balance out of the red figures."

Hyperion does contract work for several companies and they have SW business outside Amiga market.
Eyetech has their own business beyond A1.
KMOS has it's financiers... (currently we know nothing more)
A1 costs more per unit than peg2 it means bigger margins (for someone).
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 75 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 19-Jul-2004 07:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Don Cox):
> Biologically, there are subspecies with clearly defined characteristics

If you want to put it that way, then be prepared to find out that there are hundreds of different subspecies in the human species.

Dividing people in Caucasians and the like is the dumbest thing in the univers, specially considering where do those definitions come from.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 76 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 19-Jul-2004 07:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Jens Schoenfeld):
" re-configurable hardware is what future computers are built from. FPGA densities are fairly close to what's necessary to make a North bridge at reasonable prices - maybe two more years. "

I think we would warmly welcome such a replacement for Artisia in AmigaTwo. ;-)
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 77 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 19-Jul-2004 07:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Don Cox):
"Some of us have hundreds of Amiga floppies with data on." Someone still have an important data on Amiga floppies? Sure, if you don't have an Amiga anymore but you must recover your old sources etc. it is needed. But I can't imagine anyone would need it more than once. "The Marconi joystick for Amigas has no modern equivalent. It is very much better than a mouse." Mmmh, ok. I prefer my PS2 pad tho. But digital joystick is useful for old games to be played in UAE or Frodo. "The Amiga mouse port is ideal for all kinds of simple interface experiments using just switches or pots. I'm depressed. Why not let all that old junk go?
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 78 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 19-Jul-2004 08:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Fabio Alemagna):
Fabio, I suggest you study English a bit more before you argue semantics with a native speaker.

Racism is discrimination based on race, which in turn is very much determined by skin colour.

You are talking about cultural and religious discrimination, which is NOT racism. That's bigotry.

Either way, this is a pointless debate, unless you are suggesting that every hardware manufacturer who does not develop drivers for AROS is a bigot or a racist.

Jens is within his rights, and has done nothing to be condemned on either racial, cultural, religious or moral grounds.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 79 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Jul-2004 08:12 GMT
>No, Eyetech did not give me the boards for free. However, they made a good price, which I see as a friendly gesture.
Then you should charge OS4 Drivers as well because hardware wasn't free...

And what about MacOSX ? Did Apple make you a good price as well ? ;)
Did Abit/Asus/Whatever make a special account for your pc so that drivers are free for PC ? ;)

>Now, he has a few choices:

>1. Buy the Pegasos system and divide its cost over ALL of the boards sold.
>2. Buy the Pegasos system and recover its cost by selling the Pegasos drivers as a seperate entity (risky, because these could be pirated).
>3. Don't make any Pegasos drivers and don't sell to the Pegasos market.

If he had just a little respect for users in this community he wouldn't have even been thinking in the 1st+2nd "choice".

Users have nothing to do with his (past) problems/relations with BBRV.
Why should THEY pay the result of that ?
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 80 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 19-Jul-2004 08:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Bill Hoggett):
> Fabio, I suggest you study English a bit more before you argue semantics with
> a native speaker.

D'oh, come down from that pedestal Bill. The fact you're a native English speaker doesn't make you automatically eductated on what "race" means.

> Racism is discrimination based on race, which in turn is very much determined
> by skin colour.

You couldn't be more wrong. No matter what you believe, Bill, that's simply not how it is. Go find a dictionary, an look up the word.

There, I make it easy for you:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=racism
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=race

Do you see anywhere meantioned "skin colour" there?

Look, it wouldn't be the first time that someone thinks something has a different, or much more narrow, meaning than it really has. This is how prejudices grow up in the first place.

> You are talking about cultural and religious discrimination, which is NOT
> racism. That's bigotry.

racism:
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

race:
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.

> Either way, this is a pointless debate, unless you are suggesting that every
> hardware manufacturer who does not develop drivers for AROS is a bigot or a
> racist.

This sub-discussion originated elsewhere, I'd suggest you to backtrace through the links to the message you're replying to to find it out. I'd also suggest you'd do that by yourself alone, next time, before attributing to me things I never said nor suggested.



Jens is within his rights, and has done nothing to be condemned on either racial, cultural, religious or moral grounds.

Reply to this comment | Top
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 81 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Jens Schoenfeld on 19-Jul-2004 08:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Anonymous):
You're thinking the wrong way. See it from a business point of view: If BBRV would have paid me in full as agreed, they would have had to re-calculate the cost for the Peg boards. The way it is right now, they have obtained the promotion that I paid by fraud, thus the users take advantage of it by having a lower board price. It might only be one or two dollars per board, but it's a fact that they owe more than one person good amounts of money.

If you can't afford a service, you're not supposed to take advantage of it.

Speaking of respect, mine for certain people of the community has been getting lower significantly with discussions like this. This will of course shift priorities for any kind of driver.

Jens Schoenfeld
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 82 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 19-Jul-2004 08:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Bill Hoggett):
> You are talking about cultural and religious discrimination, which is NOT
> racism. That's bigotry.

Oh, btw: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bigot

bigot:
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. (emphasis is mine).

So, we have that racism is simply a form of bigotry, duh! :-)
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 83 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Jul-2004 08:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Jens Schoenfeld):
you know what. genesi gave pegasos for FREE. your saving $300 !! eyetech gave 150e discount, think that!

and why support frauds of amiga inc? are you friend of mcewen or rich woods perhaps?
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 84 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Turambar on 19-Jul-2004 09:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (Fabio Alemagna):
Fabio all your dictionary.com research doesnt really mean much does it since you are using it to contradict yourself. You claimed there was no such thing as race. Racism certainly is a form of bigotry however this does not mean that bigotry is racism. Also on another point, the meaning of words in the english language evolve significantly over the years, it takes a long time for the dictionary to catch up.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 85 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 19-Jul-2004 09:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (Turambar):
> Fabio all your dictionary.com research doesnt really mean much does it since you
> are using it to contradict yourself. You claimed there was no such thing as
> race.

I claimed that there's no thing as "race", when talking about humans, from a biological point of view. From a social point of view, it's an entirely different thing.

> Racism certainly is a form of bigotry however this does not mean that bigotry
> is racism.

Just a comment earlier I higlighted how race can refer to the cultural, ethnical, topological, historical background of a population. Now look at the "bigot" definition again, and you'll see that all those things are covered there as well, which in turn means that bigotry is a form of racism.

> Also on another point, the meaning of words in the english language evolve
> significantly over the years, it takes a long time for the dictionary to catch
> up.

If there's one thing I've learnt about English/USA people, is that their perception of their own language can sometimes differ a LOT from what their language really is like. This is because most of them use only a limited vocabulary, and often the words they use, although having a multitude of different yet similar meanings, are only used in a very specific and narrow way. Often such people think that their vision of the language is the correct one, no matter what others tell them, with dictionaries at hand.

This is exactly what is happening now. You talk about "evolution" of the language, but what you're highlighting is rather a devolution, since you can't see that a term has a broader meaning that you want to attribute to it.

It's a lot harder to find such behaviour in other kind of populations, like Frenchs, Germans or Italians.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 86 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Jens Schönfeld on 19-Jul-2004 09:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (Anonymous):
I don't know where those numbers come from, but none of them has a basis. I surely would have liked to get a free board of whatever colour, but that's not what I demand. Sure, I'm giving more than 20 Catweasel developers a free controller, but that dies not mean that anyone else has to support me in the same way.

As I said, friendly gestures is what it takes in human interaction. We're christian, we're supposed to forgive each other.

I reached out my hand by offering drivers, that was about 24 hours ago. It seems like the community has nothing better to do than biting that hand. What do you think will this do to my motivation?

Jens Schönfeld
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 87 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 19-Jul-2004 09:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (Anonymous):
>and why support frauds of amiga inc? are you friend of mcewen or rich woods perhaps?

Are you trying to suggest that Bill McEwen and Rich Woods are friends? !!!

Poor Jens. All he did was offer to produce drivers for the Pegasos at a later date for a fee and this thread has turn from a "well done, nice bit of hardware!" into an advertisment for the BNP. Sheesh. It's a bloody miracle that we have any developers left at all.

Personally, I think half of the remarks in this thread are an attempt to drive EVERYONE buying a Windows PC.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 88 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 19-Jul-2004 09:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (Fabio Alemagna):
More to the point (it's an American university site): http://academic.udayton.edu/race/01race/race.htm

"What is Race? When some people use the "race" they attach a biological meaning, still others use "race" as a socially constructed concept. It is clear that even though race does not have a biological meaning, it does have a social meaning which has been legally constructed." (Emphasis is mine).
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 89 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 09:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (priest):
"A1 costs more per unit than peg2 it means bigger margins (for someone)."

Or smaller losses, more likely.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 90 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 19-Jul-2004 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Don Cox):
Or higher costs, as likely.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 91 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 09:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (Fabio Alemagna):
"If you want to put it that way, then be prepared to find out that there are hundreds of different subspecies in the human species."

Sure.

Taxonomists are either splitters (who want to name a new subspecies for every detectable local difference) or lumpers (who want to keep the number of named subspecies to a minimum). A splitter could identify hundreds of subspecies in Homo sapiens, a lumper maybe 5 or 6.

The difference between a species and a subspecies (in a sexually reproducing animal) is that all the subspecies can interbreed freely, if they wander into each others' area. Separate species either don't interbreed because of behavioral differences or are infertile if they do, or both. There are many borderline cases, such as Blue and Snow Geese, or Herring and Black-backed Gulls.

One controversial topic is whether Neanderthals and "Modern" humans interbred or not.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 92 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 19-Jul-2004 09:54 GMT
Jens, surely you already know it but, even though a few "blue fanatics", the community loves your efforts !!!!
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 93 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 09:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (Fabio Alemagna):
"If there's one thing I've learnt about English/USA people, is that their perception of their own language can sometimes differ a LOT from what their language really is like. This is because most of them use only a limited vocabulary, and often the words they use, although having a multitude of different yet similar meanings, are only used in a very specific and narrow way. Often such people think that their vision of the language is the correct one, no matter what others tell them, with dictionaries at hand."

There is no officially correct English. The Oxford English Dictionary simply records the ways words are used in practice. If a new usage becomes popular it will turn up in the dictionaries. This is one reason the language is so successful as (ironically) a lingua franca.

I would like to think that the version of English used by English people, especially those who grew up near London, is the most standard version, but many people world wide might disagree.

The French do attempt to have an officially regulated correct version of their language.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 94 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 19-Jul-2004 09:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (Don Cox):
> Taxonomists are either splitters (who want to name a new subspecies for every
> detectable local difference) or lumpers (who want to keep the number of named
> subspecies to a minimum). A splitter could identify hundreds of subspecies in
> Homo sapiens, a lumper maybe 5 or 6.

The problem arises when there are so many subspecies that it makes no sense anymore to call them "subspecies": just admit that there's a continuum of varying characteristics that only an handful of people really share (handful in the sense of 1000, 2000 people, not much more).

Italians are supposed to be Caucasian (white skin, light coloured eyes, light coloured hairs - not to mention the "psychological" aspect of the Caucasian) for instance, yet if you go to Southern Italy you'll find people with dark eyes, dark skin (dark, not black), dark hair: basically anything but what the Caucasian model would expect.

It's simply not possible to tell "races" apart by means of something that individuals belonging to one certain "race" have and that individuals belonging to another "race" don't. And this is not only an human prerogative, many other animals have the same "issue". Basically, the term "race" is a pure fiction, from the biological point of view.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 95 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Jul-2004 10:08 GMT
>You're thinking the wrong way. See it from a business point of view: If BBRV would have paid me in full as agreed, they would have had to re-calculate the cost for the Peg boards. The way it is right now, they have obtained the promotion that I paid by fraud, thus the users take advantage of it by having a lower board price. It might only be one or two dollars per board, but it's a fact that they owe more than one person good amounts of money.

Again: what USERS/BUYERS of Pegasos (that would buy the Catweasel MK4 *if*, just like *any other OS*, drivers came with the hard with *no* additionnal charge) have to do with BBRV owning you money ?!?!

=> Just fix your problem with bbrv himself, Genesi, or whatever but not by penalizing the users... The only people you're annoying here are the users and *yourself*, not bbrv nor Genesi: you won't avoid the sell of Pegasos by doing this, but you will loose potential customers (already one with me) and so money...

>Speaking of respect, mine for certain people of the community has been getting lower significantly with discussions like this. This will of course shift priorities for any kind of driver.

And don't be surprised if the whole community's respect for you is getting lower as well with such announcements.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 96 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 19-Jul-2004 10:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (Jens Schönfeld):
@Jens

Well, if five, six people are that antisocial to bite the hand you offered - just because they themselves in opposite to other MorphOS users obviously aren't interested in your product - this does still leave a majority of us which seems to be grateful for the possibility to get drivers for the CW.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 97 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 10:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (itix):
""The Amiga mouse port is ideal for all kinds of simple interface experiments using just switches or pots.

I'm depressed. Why not let all that old junk go?"

Because it is more useful and more practical than the new junk. New != better. We are very much in a situation of having taken 3 steps forward and two (or even three) backward with these x86 and PPC based "Amigas".

The big advantage is that the new stuff is faster and has more RAM. The graphics cards have higher resolution. As against that, there are many good programs that don't work, no video editing, no simple hardware ports, badly laid out keyboards, I can't use the trackballs I prefer, etc.

The Catweasel is a great device for bringing some of the practicality back. The only problem is the software support for it.
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 98 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Jens Schönfeld on 19-Jul-2004 10:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (Anonymous):
I really don't know how I can make this clear: The cost of a product is the sum of *every* cost that had to be paid from scratch. This includes *everything*, not only production, rent, phone bills, advertising and all this stuff.

Are you also going into a super market and complain that the bottle of milk is more expensive than directly from the farm? No. You just know that it takes a little more effort to haul it to your town, and accept the higher price.

Same with mainboards: If an ad costs $1000 and you're selling 100 boards, the price of a single board contains $10 advertising.

If you do not pay the ad and reduce the price in return, that's fraud.

Jens Schönfeld
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 99 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 19-Jul-2004 10:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (Jens Schönfeld):
" As I said, friendly gestures is what it takes in human interaction. We're christian, we're supposed to forgive each other. "

Rats, i'm an atheist, guess i'm stuck out :P
Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 100 of 469ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 19-Jul-2004 10:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Fabio Alemagna):
"It's simply not possible to tell "races" apart by means of something that individuals belonging to one certain "race" have and that individuals belonging to another "race" don't. And this is not only an human prerogative, many other animals have the same "issue". Basically, the term "race" is a pure fiction, from the biological point of view."

No, it's useful to mark out the regional variations in a species, even though the subspecies often grade into each other. There are real differences in skin colour and nose shape among humans living in various places, and these do relate to climatic adapation in a logical way (those living where there is a shortage of sunlight have evolved paler skin).

It may be that the simple concept of a subspecies works best where not much is known in detail about the genetics of a species.
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