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[Forum] The way others (still) see us ...ANN.lu
Posted on 19-Jul-2004 12:26 GMT by pixie26 comments
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While seeking for some Linux tools, I get into www.tinyapps.orgto, one place devoted to small software for PC. What I liked the most was this sentence... "How about BeOS, *nix, Amiga, QNX, etc?" Those who are comfortable using these operating systems need no such guide as this;
clean, well-made software is the rule rather than the exception.
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 1 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 19-Jul-2004 10:27 GMT
How that 'to' got stuck in the link, I get no idea... ;)
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 2 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X2 on 19-Jul-2004 18:42 GMT
A lot of people, including those in the Linux, QNX, Windows communities, use the now known as classic Amiga hardware & software designs as a good example of how to do things right. The Mac community would never agree though, because they believe they have been doing things right from the very beginning.

However, the horrific split in the community into blue and red segments (invented and endorsed by the so called red side) would be an example of how NOT to behave.

Want bad behavior? Just watch this thread and you should EXPECT to see some anonymous insulting & rude postings from people claiming to representing the red side. Then watch some blue trolls appear, they may own or want to buy some blue label products, but their opinions do not represent my viewpoints! These kinds of comments make the WHOLE community (red and blue side inclusive) look like a joke!

Wouldn't it be nice if these people, for once, would just SHUT UP! Perhaps then their side or viewpoint wouldn't look so bad and we could all just get along...

maybe! :)
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 3 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X2 on 19-Jul-2004 18:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Darth_X2):
of course it helps to double check your text efore clicking the post button or else you get this kind of post. either that or an edit button ;)
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 4 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 19-Jul-2004 19:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Darth_X2):
" However, the horrific split in the community into blue and red segments (invented and endorsed by the so called red side)"

How very neutral of you... Both "sides" are to blame, and most of the anonymous trolls belong to neighter "side"
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 5 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X2 on 19-Jul-2004 20:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Amon_Re):
> How very neutral of you...

Exactly, I belong to neither 'side'. I may be considered a troll, but I'm a windows98 PC user. So which 'side' would a PC user default to? ;)

The Red & blue 'side' thing was invented by people belonging to the red side.
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 6 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 19-Jul-2004 20:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Darth_X2):
And you've reached this conclusion... how?
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 7 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X2 on 19-Jul-2004 20:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Amon_Re):
> And you've reached this conclusion... how?

Well, when you are a neutral party, like myself.. you can see both sides fairly, right? ;)
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 8 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 20-Jul-2004 06:06 GMT
Test
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 9 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Ferry on 20-Jul-2004 06:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Darth_X2):
"A lot of people, including those in the Linux, QNX, Windows communities, use the now known as classic Amiga hardware & software designs as a good example of how to do things right. The Mac community would never agree though, because they believe they have been doing things right from the very beginning.

However, the horrific split in the community into blue and red segments (invented and endorsed by the so called red side) would be an example of how NOT to behave.
"

Only three questions:

1. One thing that could help to keep noise as low as posible would be to post ON TOPIC. www.tinyapps.orgto is talking only about file sizes, not about behaviours or sides... It is very usual to take things out of context, even minor questions like this very one, in order to throw mud over.

2. For the sake of fairness, it would be good to provide some proofs when accusing someone of doing something. When an accusation is made without any proof, it only helps to raise noise and mud level.

3. There are many people using/betatesting/developing for A1-Peg-Classic that NEVER post to sites like ANN, where their legitimate questions or opinions can be dragged to any kind of flame war,or because they don't like the way things are discussed here. So oppinions expressed here should not be taken as a representation of the state of things: it's usually a few people posting too much, even as anonymous... As a general advice -somebody else said this already- one should post as if his/her grandma were to read the post, i.e, in a very polite and reasoned way.

Saluditos,

FerrŠn.
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 10 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 20-Jul-2004 06:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Darth_X2):
I seriously doubt that, you'll need to come up with some solid argumentation for me to buy your point of view, as it feels like flamebait to me.


According to my memories, both sides are to blame, maybe it would be nice to backtrace the whole series of events that took place, but even if you are right, i fail to see how pointing fingers will solve anything
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 11 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas on 20-Jul-2004 07:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Darth_X2):
"Exactly, I belong to neither 'side'. I may be considered a troll, but I'm a windows98 PC user. So which 'side' would a PC user default to? ;)"

The lame one ;)
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 12 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Jul-2004 10:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Darth_X2):
People like you are part of the problem. People like you make it wery hard to respect blue side, because you seem to EXPECT that anonymous trolls are red. There is atleast as much anonymous blue trolls as there is red ones.

It's not any big surprise there is wars when some people think like you.
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 13 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Jul-2004 10:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Darth_X2):
"The Red & blue 'side' thing was invented by people belonging to the red side."

No it was not.

That thing was invented by people who wanted to create problems. It was created by people like you who blame one side.

Creating official AmigaOS as a competitor to MOS was not reason to this split to red and blue "camp"

The split was caused by those people who did not accept any comopetition, and there is those people in BOTH blue and red camp.

This split was not created by red side when AmigaOS4 project was started. This split was created by those people who did not accept any competition, those people who started to attack another side. And attacks have been against both sides right from the beginning.

Small group of people managed to make red and blues fight against each other. And those are the guys who we must blame, not red or blue camp. I think that many of those troublemakers are not red and they are not blue.
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 14 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Jul-2004 10:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Darth_X2):
I don'št think you are neyutral at all, you just pretend it here. Your own words prove something else though.
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 15 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 20-Jul-2004 13:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
The world is ending! I'm agreeing with an anonymous! :P
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 16 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 20-Jul-2004 20:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Thomas):
> The lame one ;)

LOL!
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 17 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 20-Jul-2004 20:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Christian Kemp):
> Test

The voice of reason! ;)
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 18 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 20-Jul-2004 21:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Anonymous):
> I don'št think you are neyutral at all, you just pretend it here. Your own words prove something else though.

I can tell you are typing using a European keyboard. Espoo Finland perhaps? ;)
I am in Canada.

To both of us, the Amiga market means something different. To the european computer user, the Amiga a cool home computer that had lots of great games developed for it. To someone like me, the Amiga was best known for use in professional video production. thanks to Newtek launching the marketing with the Video Toaster.

Sadly, companies like Newtek will never return to this market.Neither will Scala. Do you know why?

Between the business practices of the companies producing computers & operating systems for this market, and the behavior of the users.. there is nothing for them here. Most developers feel this way, and many more users feel this way.

Can you say that you are doing something to change the way these people feel?


By the way, are you a friend of Kjetil? ;)
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 19 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 20-Jul-2004 21:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Darth_X):
> By the way, are you a friend of Kjetil? ;)


OOPs, not llikely.. Kjetil in in Norway, right? ;) Wrong Country!!!!! hehe
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 20 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 20-Jul-2004 23:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Anonymous):
> People like you are part of the problem.

Why? Because I'm not afraid to speak out, voice my opinion, and most of all use my registered nickname instead of posting anonymously?

> People like you make it wery hard to respect blue side, because you seem to EXPECT that anonymous trolls are red.

And here's where Christophe Decanini can back me up.

> There is atleast as much anonymous blue trolls as there is red ones.

You could be right. Blue trolls post using their registered nicks, red trolls post anonymously.


> It's not any big surprise there is wars when some people think like you.

Why? Because I have a different viewpoint? ;)
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 21 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Ferry on 21-Jul-2004 10:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Darth_X):
"Blue trolls post using their registered nicks, red trolls post anonymously."

You must be joking... :¨( Just take a look at Redrumloa thread...

Saluditos,

FerrŠn.
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 22 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 21-Jul-2004 13:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Darth_X):
And here's where Christophe Decanini can back me up.

Where did Christophe go? ;)
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 23 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 21-Jul-2004 14:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (pixie):
How this thread got into this mess, I got no idea...
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 24 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 21-Jul-2004 14:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (pixie):
Its my fault, and I apologise for going off topic.

It just hurts me so much what this community has become. Dividing users in 'sides' then blaming the OTHER 'side' for all the problems, while sweeping their own 'side' problems under the carpet.
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 25 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 21-Jul-2004 14:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Darth_X):
There's a Portuguese proverb that says it all:
'After the storm comes the calm'

People will eventually realize that this situation isn't good to no one...
We have plenty of solutions, all Amiga like and people fail to realize we're all in the same boat, instead, they all the 'glory' for themselves, *we are the only true amigans*, they say, as if they were aproved by some entity... you go to some irc chat using a pc, and you risk being kicked just because you're not talking on an Amiga.

People can't be treated like that, we'll you can but you get what you seed...

For me, none of the main products is in a viable form, but all have the potential to be, you already have 3 native solutions an lots of emulation ones, and guess what it is *a good thing*(tm), if programs could be made shareable between systems, you could have an exponential increase of software base for them all, momentum gathering more momentum...

There are things AmigaOS do like no one, I felt a bit like AOne user felt for some time,I now have linux only on my pc, my only relief is UAE, but boy, does it screem!! And it's not even at is full best, had it better graphic system and it would be a major kicking in the arse!;) People doesn't even realize they can have systems with less resources (silent!) that react quicker then their current setups.

Had Amiga had a Office beater and Internet browser compliant with the latest standarts and many things could change, until then...
The way others (still) see us ... : Comment 26 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy NordstrŲm on 22-Jul-2004 04:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Darth_X2):
>The Red & blue 'side' thing was invented by people belonging to the red side.

Bullocks. The first "red vs blue" related term I ever heard was "BAF" (Blind Amiga Follower).

However, who started it really isn't an issue here, IMO. We need to be more mature than that in order to solve these kind of conflicts.
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