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[Forum] Cutting down Trolls...ANN.lu
Posted on 21-Jul-2004 01:51 GMT by Darth_X49 comments
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Christian, would it be possible to write a script for ann.lu so that only registered users are allowed to post news items? If a person needs to remain anonymous and yet post some kind of news item they should email you or one of the moderators. This is fair.

Perhaps we need ann.lu set up for a while so that only registered users can post to cut down on the amount of trolls...
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 1 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Ronald St-Maurice on 21-Jul-2004 00:07 GMT
Very good suggestion!
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 2 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Ronald St-Maurice on 21-Jul-2004 00:09 GMT
I wish they'd fix the http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=&category=[blank] problem.
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 3 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Jul-2004 01:38 GMT
Christian, would it be possible to write a script for ann.lu so that registered users such as Darth_X are not allowed to post news items?
If a person needs to remain assholic and yet post some kind of news item they should email you or one of the moderators. This is fair.

Perhaps we need ann.lu set up for a while so that registered users such as Darth_X cannot post to cut down on the amount of trolls...
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 4 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by how about this?? on 21-Jul-2004 03:13 GMT
How about just add an option (check box) to view only posts/replies from registered users?
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 5 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Zardozzzz on 21-Jul-2004 04:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (how about this??):
Exxellent idea!
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 6 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 21-Jul-2004 05:16 GMT
How it would cut down trolls? It would cut out fake news-items and such, but the same trolls would still be here just as usual.

But yes, it would be a good idea to need registering to post an item. At least we would get rid of some of the stupid threads seen lately.
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 7 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by koan on 21-Jul-2004 05:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (how about this??):
I agree!

If you follow Darth_X's advice you would have to change the name to Amiga(/like) Zealot Network News.

koan
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 8 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Jul-2004 06:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
Hey, it's the best suggestion he's made in weeks, i for one am in favor of his suggestion.
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 9 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by ikir on 21-Jul-2004 07:05 GMT
I agree with Dart.
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 10 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 21-Jul-2004 09:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (ikir):
I don't agree and I hope that Christian will leave ANN free.
Censorship and limitations such as in other forums mean
less news, less quality and other bad effects.

ANN is not an Amiga Inc support site, is a site that
collects news and rumors, not a one that tries to drive the
reader into beleiving this and that stuff. When you allow
everyone to post you'll surely get some crap but you'll also
get more news, point of view and interesting content.

Here there are some good moderators who daily remove not
serious stuff. So what is the problem?

And don't forget that you can simply decide to not view at
all unmoderated stuff and see only the one already approved
by moderators. So what is the problem? Are you trying to
reduce freedom of speech?
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 11 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Panda on 21-Jul-2004 09:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Gabriele Favrin):
@Favrin

>Are you trying to reduce freedom of speech?

Why this attach to ikir? Any (not so) hidden agenda there?
You don't like ikir's news web site? Fine, but there is no need nor justification to attach him in this thread (it smeels like envy to me, btw)

:-(

@ikir

congrats to your ever growing site and community :-)
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 12 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 21-Jul-2004 10:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Panda):
>Why this attach to ikir? Any (not so) hidden agenda there?

Just because I don't agree with his point in this discussion
it doesn't mean that I'm attacking him.

>You don't like ikir's news web site? Fine, but there is no
>need nor justification to attach him in this thread (it
>smeels like envy to me, btw)

Envy for what? I'm webmaster of three important italian
Amiga sites and I support another one (Amigapage) so I don't
understand your statement. :)

Plkase, don't turn this into a personal matter between me,
you or ikir. Ikir has his own site, his own 'fame' (angood
for some, bad fior others, but that's the good thing about
freedom of opinion) but that's not the poin HERE, NOW. We
are talking about ANN, not about me, ikir or iksnet.

Next time try to stick on the topic when you come to support
a friend. ;-)

EOD
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 13 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 21-Jul-2004 10:27 GMT
I'm against registering. Anon trolls are annoying, but they represent this community well: sick fanatics we are.
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 14 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Panda on 21-Jul-2004 10:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Gabriele Favrin):
Next time try to stick strictly to the topic you too, not accusing ikir of censorship.
He's intitoled to his opinion as well, but it doesn't mean he should receive your "attentions" due them... simple as that.

(a note for the not italian readers, the envy comment was due constant Favrin attacks to ikir's web site, both on international and italian web-site)

and btw, EOD doesn't mean I'll shout-up at your will..
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 15 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Jul-2004 10:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (itix):
Im against registering, because it annoys Darth_X the morphzone moderator so much.
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 16 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 21-Jul-2004 11:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Panda):
>(a note for the not italian readers, the envy comment was due constant Favrin attacks to ikir's web site, both on international and italian web-site)

Never attacked Iksnet recently. I'm bored enough reading on
people being censored and attacked by moderators of that
site (eg. our poor Seyia, accused to be 'the biggest italian
troll after Eva' by a moderator). See, I really prefer to go
on with my various sites instead of loosing time with people
who can't talk with people who have different opinions.

EOD, from my side.
If you prefer to continue with your flame against me feel
free to do so.
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 17 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 21-Jul-2004 11:22 GMT
Don't make ANN a booooooooring place with registrations.

Vote for the freedom of speech.

;-)
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 18 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 21-Jul-2004 11:39 GMT
It would help with some more moderators, so one didn't have to view the unmoderated news to see anything new for a week

I've mentioned it before, but I think only moderators (or at the very least registered users only) should be able to comment an unmoderated posting.

Oh, and please be more strict on moderation. I think follow-ups to flame-baits should be deleted along with the flame bait itself. Would seriously cut down on number of postings from Amon_Re, but maybe it would teach people that there's no point in taking the bait, you'll just be cut off anyway :-)
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 19 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Jul-2004 12:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Gabriele Favrin):
Gracious how he gives permission eh?
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 20 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Jul-2004 13:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Gabriele Favrin):
I don't agree and I hope that Christian will leave ANN free.
Censorship and limitations such as in other forums mean
less news, less quality and other bad effects.


Actually, it would significantly improve the quality of ann.lu, and "less news"? You mean threads like eg "Do you think Ben Hermans is a traitor" (the most recent trollthread i remember) wouldn't be possible anymore? Gee, what a loss..

ANN is not an Amiga Inc support site

Flamebait alert

is a site that collects news and rumors, not a one that tries to drive the
reader into beleiving this and that stuff. When you allow
everyone to post you'll surely get some crap but you'll also
get more news, point of view and interesting content.


See above

Here there are some good moderators who daily remove not
serious stuff. So what is the problem?


It would seriously relieve said moderators of alot of burden & stress

And don't forget that you can simply decide to not view at
all unmoderated stuff and see only the one already approved
by moderators. So what is the problem? Are you trying to
reduce freedom of speech?


No, trying to reduce the crap
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 21 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Jul-2004 13:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Gabriele Favrin):
Envy for what? I'm webmaster of three important italian
Amiga sites and I support another one (Amigapage) so I don't
understand your statement. :)


Wich ones? Do they allow anonymous posting?
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 22 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Jul-2004 13:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (itix):
The worst cases aren't really part of the community at all
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 23 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Jul-2004 13:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Olegil):
Hey! :P
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 24 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 21-Jul-2004 13:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Olegil):
> I think follow-ups to flame-baits should be deleted along with the flame bait itself. Would seriously cut down on number of postings from Amon_Re, but maybe it would teach people that there's no point in taking the bait, you'll just be cut off anyway :-)

That's an excellent idea. ;)
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 25 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 21-Jul-2004 13:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Amon_Re):
>>Envy for what? I'm webmaster of three important italian
>>Amiga sites
>Wich ones? Do they allow anonymous posting?

None of these sites contain a forum. The first is a portal
of _all_ Amiga resources (including Ikir's portal - I'm
serious when it comes to work), the second is a collection
of articles by Paolo Canali, a well known italian Amiga
hardware expert. The last one is a web magazine. We are
planning to offer a mailing list service and it will be
opened to anyone.

I'm consistent in my positions. I think that moderation is
a good way to operate a site. But moderation doesn't need
too much restrictions, because when you cut off number of
people who can talk you surely get less crap but youu also
get less content.

About your other post:

>Actually, it would significantly improve the quality of
>ann.lu, and "less news"? You mean threads like eg "Do you
>think Ben Hermans is a traitor" (the most recent trollthread
>i remember) wouldn't be possible anymore? Gee, what a loss..

ANN is abourt news, rumors, weird stuff. Someone abuses it
but evry flame thread is removed. You can either ignore them
or switch 'unmoderated' flag off. Where is the problem?

>It would seriously relieve said moderators of alot of
>burden & stress

Maybe if they decided to work here they feel ANN is ok as it
is. Why don't you simply move to a site that better suits
your needs if ANN is not as you want it?
And why are you worried only about flames against one side
and not the other?

And, after all, why don't you simply uncheck some gadgets
and see only the news you are interested in?

I don't really think that limit the number of SOURCES ANN
currently have is a good idea for a news site. If you think
so, try to convince Christian to ruin his good news site
because you don't want to read something that you already
can skip.

What will be the next step: voting for who can be
registered? For what type of news can be posted? To forbid
posts against this or that because someone don't like them?
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 26 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Jul-2004 14:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Gabriele Favrin):
Maybe if they decided to work here they feel ANN is ok as it
is. Why don't you simply move to a site that better suits
your needs if ANN is not as you want it?


And does suit me, it's not because i think something is a good idea/preposal that i'm demanding Christian to implement it, there's a subtle difference you know.

And why are you worried only about flames against one side
and not the other?


How do you come to this conclusion? Because i used that particular thread as an example? It's the only one whom's title i remembered, nothing more, nothing less.

I might be be a fan of the other platform, but i don't wish it harm at all, and quite afew have my respect, this thread here isn't about camps anyway.

And, after all, why don't you simply uncheck some gadgets
and see only the news you are interested in?


Someone else already awnsered that post (because then i'd have to wait untill one of the moderators flag the threads into the correct catagory)

I don't really think that limit the number of SOURCES ANN
currently have is a good idea for a news site. If you think
so, try to convince Christian to ruin his good news site
because you don't want to read something that you already
can skip.


Personally i doubt it would affect ann.lu in a serious way, that is all, i have no business dictating Christian how he runs his site, i'm happy with ann.lu as it is now already, but Darth posted an idea wich he thinks might improve ann.lu, and i agree with him, that's it, nothing more, nothing less.

What will be the next step: voting for who can be
registered? For what type of news can be posted? To forbid
posts against this or that because someone don't like them?
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 27 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Say no to censorship on 21-Jul-2004 17:52 GMT
What i find worse than site abusers, is the sad bastards who follow what do a whois on a ip addy and go on with themselves as if they have won the lottery.
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 28 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Say no to censorship on 21-Jul-2004 17:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Gabriele Favrin):
That is right. ANN is the only uncensored Amiga website left, the rest are blindly censored, you then either follow their way of thinking or f++k off or get banned (which is common on one site).
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 29 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Jul-2004 19:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Say no to censorship):
I know this is flamebait, but I will explain my motivation for what i did only once, listen up carefully.

The people whom i did an whois on were impersonating someone else and or were abusing historical facts with the intention to rattle up people, i took the bait, because it happened to be something i an sensitive about.

What i did was morally, legally & ethicly correct, i did not overstep any boundrary to what is allowed, or deemed acceptable, the information i revealed is information out there available to everyone. I don't mind you calling me names, but the posts to whom i responded, while perhaps "free speech" to you, are considered crimes in Europe, and i suppose also in the US & other countries.
Not only that, but there have been lawsuits where site maintainers have been procecuted over comments posted by users of their sites, so in the end, they even endanger the existance of ann.lu.

Hopefully you will understand what i'm trying to tell you, but if you don't.... so be it, this is the last thing i'm going to say about it.
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 30 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 21-Jul-2004 20:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (hooligan/dcs):
Posted by hooligan/dcs (Registered user) on 21-Jul-2004 07:16:42
How it would cut down trolls? It would cut out fake news-items and such, but the same trolls would still be here just as usual.

But yes, it would be a good idea to need registering to post an item. At least we would get rid of some of the stupid threads seen lately.
__________

Absolutely agree.
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 31 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 21-Jul-2004 20:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Panda):
Posted by Panda (213.156.52.123) on 21-Jul-2004 11:44:26

@ikir

congrats to your ever growing site and community :-)
________________

Who? Ikir? The same who waanted to ask lawsuit to amiga.it owner? That posted shits and ignorant assumpions on Morphos on Amigapage and Ikir sector?
Panda ... be clear ...
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 32 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 21-Jul-2004 20:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Amon_Re):
AmonRE, before that you open youyr mouth ... it's better ya know that Gabriel was one of the most importa Italian Aos4 betatester ... without adding it managed duing those last TEN years #amigaita and numberous AMiga related site (like amigaemulationITA, amiga.it etc)
Where was you during those last ten years? to wait a 3 years anticipated product?
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 33 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 21-Jul-2004 20:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Amon_Re):
Hopefully you will understand what i'm trying to tell you, but if you don't.... so be it, this is the last thing i'm going to say about it
_______

We understand Amon ...
A Tshirt with a good "I'm a cencor!" on it is on the eway for your home.
The next step will be a lager for all trolls, so we can meet togheter for a party to understand if you are a sheep (I'm offending the sheep category! urgh ...) or something else
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 34 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Jul-2004 20:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Eva):
o.O What did you swallow? I don't know him, so i asked a direct question, if that's a crime well shoot me
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 35 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 21-Jul-2004 20:26 GMT
Seriously.
A system to stop down anonymous news item is not so bad.
The problem is "Who will judged a post a flamebait, a troll post, a wise one, an idiot one ... and kill the registerd user"
Behind the word "judgment" there is a little one that can follow ... "partiality".
It can happen that some troll posts (as happened recently) will stay alive untouched just because they offended "a part that for us is not importatnt. For me say that Mos will be forver a beta while Aos4 is already a final OS ... is a trustable post ..."

So, at the end, I will agree fully with a "moderated" news posting attitude on ANN ... but also if there wil be in the ANN team someone that can be seen as trustable ALSO for Aros and Mos parties.
After the recent Genesi versus ANN ... Kemp declarations sure Mr Kemp cannot be judged supraparties.

If a similar action will not take place, ANN will become simply a new censored portal.
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 36 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Jul-2004 20:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Eva):
I very much doubt ann.lu will become a censored website, the proposal from Darth for instance, would still allow me to start threads (or you, if you registered your nick), it would however, hinder people wanting to stay anonymous from causing trouble.

The moderation as it is now on ann.lu sofar has always seemed impartial to me, the only "problem" is that they can't dedicate all their time to ann.lu (after all, they have lives outside of ann.lu) so it can take awhile before a thread gets sensored, wich is why some of us have the "unmodered" tag marked.

In the end, it all comes down to what Christian thinks about this, and it will be his call
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 37 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Jul-2004 20:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Amon_Re):
before a thread gets sensored >> should be before a thread gets moderated
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 38 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 21-Jul-2004 22:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Eva):
For the record and to avoid some more useless flames:

1) Ikir never attacked the owner of amiga.it (a domain
registered 4 years ago by Amiga group Italia, an user group
association, and that now I'm managing for one of their
members and have transformed in a resource for any Amiga
user, from OS4 fans to Classic, from UAE to mOS and AROS).
Some Ikir's friends behaved differently and wrote really bad
comments about us (promising a lot of bad things...) but not
him. He just offends and censor people on his forum but is
honest enough to appreciate work towards Amiga community
(Amiga.it links to his portal as well and he links back to
us).

2) I've never been one of the most important OS4
betatesters due to time costraints and some hardware
problems (as stated in my text about my experience with our
dear Ben Hermans), but I'm proud to be the one who find some
nssty bugs in OS 3.5/3.9 and the one who gived a good help
to Olaf when he was researching development material to add
PPPoE to Roadshow. If you connect to ADSL with your beloved
A1 you must thanks my research efforts too ;-)

3) I'm managing the amigaita since 1999, not 1994 :)

For the record, amiga.it (and soon iltecnicorisponde.info,
the Paolo Canali's article collection) are on the same
hosting company of ANN. Stick with Dreamhost, Christian,
they are the best! ;-)
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 39 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 21-Jul-2004 22:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
Sometimes, when I post oin ann.lu I'd swear that there was a parrot sitting on my shoulder repeating every word I say...

Oh wait.. there is! ;)
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 40 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous Poster #3 on 21-Jul-2004 23:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Darth_X):
Sometimes, when I post oin ann.lu I'd swear that there was a parrot sitting on my shoulder repeating every word I say...

Oh wait.. there is! ;)

Seriously, there was a *slight* difference. Come on, I post news here occasionally and use anonymity out of convenience. I don't post flames and Christian handles moderation. So don't worry about it so much :)
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 41 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 22-Jul-2004 08:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Amon_Re):
:-D
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 42 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 22-Jul-2004 08:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Amon_Re):
See? He did it again!

:-P
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 43 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 22-Jul-2004 08:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Anonymous Poster #3):
Well, you would still be "anonymous" if Christian was the only one who knew your name, so you should consider registering to give your news items more credibility.

Who knows, maybe some day you would be famous.
I don't see much point in registering, as I always use my real name (or close enough that it's unique anyway ;-) ) when posting, and I never ever start new threads. But I would say it seems like a good idea to need a registered account for starting threads. If you abuse a registered account to start bogus threads that should of course warrant deletion of the account.

If you're not man enough to stand by your word with even a proper nickname, why should I bother listening to your word?
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 44 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 22-Jul-2004 09:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Olegil):
One of the reasons why Christian implemented the nick registration was because there was alot of spoofing going on
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 45 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 22-Jul-2004 09:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Olegil):
No i didn't!




Oh, wait, i did... :P
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 46 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Jul-2004 10:35 GMT
Good idea. I aggree with Darth_X. I hope this will be done.
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 47 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 22-Jul-2004 15:20 GMT
C.K. could you write a script that places these threads seaking censorship in a "here we go again" forum?

Has anyone tried to set your watch but these types of thread? As they do seem to be even more predictable than the persistant EU manipulation of software patent issues (last news I heard was something like 5 countries were wrongly misrepresented in a vote for such patents.)

Seriously, the persistance of the few who want ANN to become censored should perhaps be made into a public list of those against freedom of speech. Or perhaps some sort of tag system like what slashdot uses...

Ultimatley I see such little real and relative news happening that I think the best way to satisfy the "want to be censored" is to shut down the site all together.

The amiga was about freedom but its become clear that its censorship is contributing to its burial.... maybe just another form of IP bitch slapping to use so to suppress Amiga even more...

Then there is AROS ..... where anyone can say what they want cause the truth is not being hidden behind some closed censored door... where any trolling is easy to expose the troll...

A good point for openness....
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 48 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 22-Jul-2004 15:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (3seas):
...even more predictable than the persistant EU manipulation of software patent issues (last news I heard was something like 5 countries were wrongly misrepresented in a vote for such patents.)

Do you have some more info on that? I've been keeping up with the news lately
Cutting down Trolls... : Comment 49 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Jul-2004 09:12 GMT
Darth X, where you come from ? What you ask is censure. I belive we all live in democratic country so let be the same way. Everybody have the right to post something even if they are anonimous as me. BTW it doesn't mean we are less credible than you.
I can't believe all the stupid answer i did read on this tread. let people talk as far as they have something to say !!!!!
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