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[Events] DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECHANN.lu
Posted on 25-Jul-2004 04:30 GMT by SWAUG NEWS47 comments
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We have placed the Garry Hare banquet speech on the SWAUG.org.uk website.

In it is a very interesting announcement.

www.swaug.org.uk
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 1 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Corrected Link on 25-Jul-2004 02:32 GMT
http://www.swaug.org.uk/amiwest2004-gh.php
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 2 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by A non non nony mouse! on 25-Jul-2004 02:44 GMT
Any information on whether the former AmigaDE developers are going to get paid or not for their work? If Garry plans to use AmigaDE, then he should ensure that the people who worked on it get paid properly.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 3 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Troels on 25-Jul-2004 02:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (A non non nony mouse!):
I guess they will be paid, hell even the T-shirts are being made now :)

good times ahead, I'm off to bed.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 4 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 25-Jul-2004 02:49 GMT
Did I really hear correctly and AmigaDE revival got some applause??
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 5 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X2 on 25-Jul-2004 02:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (JKD):
"Free Beer!!!"

Applause.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 6 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 25-Jul-2004 02:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (JKD):
Yep... Entire speech was like it had been written three years ago, about 95% of it was allmost 1/1 identical to Stuff witten by McEwen. And we all know how it all ended when AmigaInc was in chanrge..

Keypoints.
- AmigaOS desktop has no viable market
- Kmos will concentrate effort on making AmigaDE successfull
- Future financin runs will happen
- People are paid for Developing AmigaDE (apps?)
- They are going to trust "security with obscurity" for all Data

Beside those.. He chitchat a lot about networks, cellphones etc.. nothing that would affect Amiga users or Amiga OS anyhow.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 7 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 25-Jul-2004 03:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (JoannaK):
Sorry.. Forgot one important tidbit..

According the Hare.. Those famous Tshirts have been finally printed..

No, he didn't announce when they are going to be delivered. But I expent to hear when people finally get them
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 8 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Joe Torre on 25-Jul-2004 05:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Corrected Link):
I thank you for your effort, but sorry: but this is NOT by any means "a transcript" of what Gary Hare said lastnight.

A quick Synopsis or digest version YES!

I heard every utterance wispered, and this transcript of the above weblink is only a partial transcript (so far) of what he said in the speech.
...looking forward to the Total One.

Sincerely,
Joe Torre
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 9 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 25-Jul-2004 05:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (JoannaK):
>Keypoints:
>AmigaOS Desktop has no viable market

What was actually said:
"The required operating system for the future market must be small, fast, robust and not crash or be susceptible to virus, be peer to peer capable. We think that AmigaOS is the best OS for this purpose. With continuing developement it can meet all these objectives."

I guess English isn't your first language? Or second, or even, apparently, your third...
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 10 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 25-Jul-2004 06:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Darrin):
I think JoannaK meant this: "If the OS is done properly like OS4, the OS has to be able to migrate to desktops as well as mobiles, developers dont use PDA's and mobiles to develop! The only way to sustain the desktop is to be successful in other market."
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 11 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 25-Jul-2004 07:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (itix):
Ah, so she's mixing up OS4 and AmigaDE... and come to the conclusion that AmigaDE is to replace OS4 (and thus "has no future"). Talk about 2+2=5. :-)
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 12 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 25-Jul-2004 07:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Darrin):
> "The required operating system for the future market must be small, fast, robust
> and not crash or be susceptible to virus, be peer to peer capable. We think that
> AmigaOS is the best OS for this purpose.

AmigaOS robust, not prone to crash and not susceptible to virii? Since when? Have pig started flying already?

Oh dear, have I ever heard so much propaganda all at once...
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 13 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Jul-2004 07:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Fabio Alemagna):
"Oh dear, have I ever heard so much propaganda all at once..."

I fear Dr Hare has been misled by Messrs McEwen and Moss.

Does he understand the difference between AmigaOS and AmigaDE ? I suspect not.

At least "peer to peer capable" is true. Envoy works very well.

It does seem likely that AOS4 will be more stable (eventually) than AOS3, because it seems to be less tolerant of bugs in programs.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 14 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 25-Jul-2004 08:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Don Cox):
> Does he understand the difference between AmigaOS and AmigaDE ? I suspect not.

Oh well, if he doesn't, being the owner of Amiga Inc. and AmigaOS and AmigaDE, why should Genesi? ;-)

On the other hand, not even AmigaDE meets those requirements, so thar's pure and simple propaganda, and I'm ashamed some people even fall for it.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 15 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 25-Jul-2004 08:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Darrin):
No. DE for PDAs, cell phones etc seem to be the target of KMOS. They want to mobile market where the big money is. Hare: "We will focus on Amiga's DE products and we will move DE into the market immediately." AmigaOS seem to be on Hyperion's responsibility. Hermans talks AmigaOS language when Hare talks DE language.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 16 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 25-Jul-2004 08:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Fabio Alemagna):
"On the other hand, not even AmigaDE meets those requirements, so thar's pure and simple propaganda, and I'm ashamed some people even fall for it." Hare can't say AmigaDE sucks but we sell it nevertheless, can he? Normal marketing speak IMO.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 17 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 25-Jul-2004 08:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Don Cox):
"Oh dear, have I ever heard so much propaganda all at once..."

I fear Dr Hare has been misled by Messrs McEwen and Moss.


I think he is mixing many things up on technical level,

Does he understand the difference between AmigaOS and AmigaDE ? I suspect not.

At least "peer to peer capable" is true. Envoy works very well.


I found it interesting, TCP/IP is a peer to peer protocol, he were referring to networks finding the fastest way trow the Internet, protocols!!! the one thing I don't get is what AmigaOS as whit this, is AmigaOS going to enbanded inn switches?

It does seem likely that AOS4 will be more stable (eventually) than AOS3, because it seems to be less tolerant of bugs in programs.

True, the ultimate gull is to have isolated address spaces, so YES!!!
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 18 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 25-Jul-2004 08:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Fabio Alemagna):
Does he understand the difference between AmigaOS and AmigaDE ? I suspect not.

On the other hand, not even AmigaDE meets those requirements, so thar's pure and simple propaganda, and I'm ashamed some people even fall for it.


AmigaDE is 99% hosted on other OS's, like WindowsCE, so if AmigaDE to be useful it probably needs to be hosted on AmigaOS4.x, or else it will do no good, I have problem seeing AmigaDE as solution for the future, when most mobile phones all ready support Java and are hosted on some kind of OS!!
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 19 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 25-Jul-2004 08:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (itix):
> Hare can't say AmigaDE sucks but we sell it nevertheless, can he? Normal
> marketing speak IMO.

And what did I say? Propaganda pure and simple. And i restate it: I'm ashamed some people even fall for it.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 20 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 25-Jul-2004 08:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Kjetil):
> I have problem seeing AmigaDE as solution for the future, when most mobile
> phones all ready support Java and are hosted on some kind of OS!!

Yes, all cellphones support java now, except the ones which don't because are cheaper. I can't see how a startup company (because that is what we're talking about here) could possibly enter this market and convince everyone to switch from their proved open java solutions to a closed and mostly unknown one: what would the benefits for such a switch be?

I'm highly sceptical.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 21 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Jul-2004 08:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Kjetil):
"It does seem likely that AOS4 will be more stable (eventually) than AOS3, because it seems to be less tolerant of bugs in programs.

True, the ultimate gull is to have isolated address spaces, so YES!!!"

Isolated address spaces are popular, but not necessarily the only solution to the problem of damage caused by bugs in new code. (We assume that old code has been fixed.)
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 22 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 25-Jul-2004 08:30 GMT
Well, that certainly was an intresting read, anyone know something about that company located in Helsinki?

Oh, and it looks like there'll be T-Shirts after all! Miracles do happen :P

PS: What happened to McEwen?
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 23 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 25-Jul-2004 08:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Darth_X2):
I'll drink to that ;)
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 24 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 25-Jul-2004 08:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Fabio Alemagna):
"Hare can't say AmigaDE sucks but we sell it nevertheless, can he? Normal
marketing speak IMO."


And what did I say? Propaganda pure and simple. And i restate it: I'm ashamed some people even fall for it.


Alt lest I hope the market is equally interested as Dr. Garry hare, so they do loss cash on it!!!, I can't see how a word processor or web browser can be scaled to fit x number of display sizes and be tuned to the most low and as the most hi end system, personal if use PC then I probably will like to have a bit more the notepad to work whit!!
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 25 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Jul-2004 08:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Fabio Alemagna):
"And what did I say? Propaganda pure and simple. And I restate it: I'm ashamed some people even fall for it."

I hope somebody has an audio recording of the whole speech, as I gather that transcript is very incomplete. Maybe what he said was better than has been reported.

But when I see the word "excited" my heart sinks.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 26 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Jul-2004 08:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Kjetil):
"I can't see how a word processor or web browser can be scaled to fit x number of display sizes and be tuned to the most low and as the most hi end system,"

That is where AmigaOS could have an advantage, as Amiga programs were always written to work on 320x256 or 640x256 screens. Also, AmigaOS gives each program the whole screen area - no space is wasted on task bars etc.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 27 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 25-Jul-2004 08:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Don Cox):
That is where AmigaOS could have an advantage, as Amiga programs were always written to work on 320x256 or 640x256 screens. Also, AmigaOS gives each program the whole screen area - no space is wasted on task bars etc.

I think the biggest advantage is reusable resources like devs, libs, dos-drivers, I don't see the benefits of basing a system on hi level system like AmigaDE it just waste of time (developer time & application speed)
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 28 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 25-Jul-2004 09:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Don Cox):
" But when I see the word "excited" my heart sinks."

Getting old Don? :P
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 29 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 25-Jul-2004 09:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Don Cox):
most programs on WindowsCE pda's turn off the taskbar.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 30 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 25-Jul-2004 09:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Don Cox):
Isolated address spaces are popular, but not necessarily the only solution to the problem of damage caused by bugs in new code. (We assume that old code has been fixed.)

Personal I think OS40 has created more bugs then it has fixed, remember this the biggest OS update ever,
it's like jumping from AmigaOS1.0 to AmigaOS3.9 over night, on the other hand we now see lots of programs on AmigaOS that will trigger debug hit so the bugs can be corrected if we have access to the source code, it has never bin essayer to debug your programs on AmigaOS, so hope full that single new feature has fixed some problems whit AmigaOS under it's development process.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 31 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Jul-2004 09:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Amon_Re):
"" But when I see the word "excited" my heart sinks."

Getting old Don? :P"

Marketspeak makes me feel old and tired.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 32 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Jul-2004 09:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Kjetil):
"Personal I think OS40 has created more bugs then it has fixed, remember this the biggest OS update ever,"

That's bound to be so in the short term. Let's hope the team has the determination to keep going until they are all fixed, and not spend time adding features instead of fixing bugs.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 33 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 25-Jul-2004 09:51 GMT
Blomberg of Amiga.org (argh, I should remember your full name, but I know I'll mangle it somehow) posted a link to Capacity Networks' site. Since navigation is Flash-based, here are links to major pages of interest:

Products
Technology
Technology 2

This is not a dramatic new solution to IP routing, but it's a prerequisite for the concatenated 'data cloud' Fleecy was on about. In practice, I'm not sure how important that is anymore (individual drives are finally ridiculously huge for anyone not working with video), but it has some boons* for design of network filesystems whether or not you really want to pool, and others for data locality across the Internet at large. (Screw loyalty cards; you could use this for a nonessential data storage service that would blow gigabyte email out of the water, or more boring, Akamai-esque things.)

Can anyone remember the other(?) company that was making Slashdot over this years back? All I remember is a site with a vaguely yellow background and a honeycomb ("hive") logo.

*Boons assuming their code works well and has useful algorithms that can be applied for various purposes. Obviously, if it's just iSCSI with brainless disk concatenation, there are free/Free projects that might do more.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 34 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 25-Jul-2004 10:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Joe "Floid" Kanowitz):
And for those, who want it to be put on everyman terms..

Legalized and 'protected' Kazaa-like filesharing.

You could get all the benefits with Kazaa, Edonkey etc.. But without artificial restrictions and other problems.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 35 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 25-Jul-2004 10:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Darrin):
Darrin: Please.. IM*n not that stupid.. Try to read more carefully what other people say..

It's Hare who belives those would work together.. I have seen Amiga DE years ago and I know they are on losing Track. It was not competetive years ago, and I definitely don't belive it to be anything like that now.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 36 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 25-Jul-2004 10:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Don Cox):
"Personal I think OS40 has created more bugs then it has fixed, remember this the biggest OS update ever,"

That's bound to be so in the short term. Let's hope the team has the determination to keep going until they are all fixed, and not spend time adding features instead of fixing bugs.


This probably way there taking there time whit the OS updates.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 37 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 25-Jul-2004 10:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (JoannaK):
Darrin: Please.. IM*n not that stupid..

comment 6 is kind stupid... reposting statement from years back, to make look like hare have no interest inn AmigaOS!!!
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 38 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 25-Jul-2004 10:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (JoannaK):
"Darrin: Please.. IM*n not that stupid.."

*looks at sentence...* Really? :P heh j/K
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 39 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 25-Jul-2004 11:26 GMT
heh another finnish company got buttfucked.. us finns are pathetic :)
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 40 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 25-Jul-2004 11:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (hooligan/dcs):
Nokia?
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 41 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 25-Jul-2004 20:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (JoannaK):
And for those, who want it to be put on everyman terms..

Legalized and 'protected' Kazaa-like filesharing.

You could get all the benefits with Kazaa, Edonkey etc.. But without artificial restrictions and other problems.


Something like "FreeNet" (unless that just kicked the bucket) does that already, sort of, and from the way Hare and everyone AInc. has ever talked, I doubt they'd want to take on that liability directly. However, if the implementation would make it 1. easy to amass a whole mess of storage, 2. easy to flag things for public sharing (a la HTTP, or what Network Neighborhood is supposed to do and doesn't), and 3. easy to *search* the entire AmiVerse for shared 'objects,' then yeah, you're there and then some.

What's restrictive about the other P2P services, other than the amount of disk you have to share from, and the fact that anonymity is often 'required' (making it hard to tell a friend 'Okay, I'll put this up for you on Gnutella, now, look for it under my name' versus just running your own httpd) for a fairly obvious reason?
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 42 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 26-Jul-2004 05:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Fabio Alemagna):
There are manufacturer(s) using intent already.

(No, not Nokia. As far as I'm aware of it.)
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 43 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 26-Jul-2004 10:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Kjetil):
"AmigaDE is 99% hosted on other OS's, like WindowsCE, so if AmigaDE to be useful it probably needs to be hosted on AmigaOS4.x,"

??? I think not.

" or else it will do no good, I have problem seeing AmigaDE as solution for the future, when most mobile phones all ready support Java and are hosted on some kind of OS!!"

There was Symbian support in the works already a few years ago. Let's see if that is the one to be launched(?) during the next quarter.
(I would predict for AA running on the MyOrigo phone instead.)

It seems there appeared some specific need/customer/market for AmigaDE. That's why KMOS desided to put a lot of money into buying AmigaInc & debts.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 44 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Jul-2004 12:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (JoannaK):
That only shows that plans have not changed so much. Whats so wrong in that ?

So you say that they should have completely different plan ? then why should they buy AmigaInc if they do not have siumilar plans ? i think it's just normal that companies with simlar plans merge.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 45 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Jul-2004 12:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Fabio Alemagna):
When have you seen Amiga virus last time ? It was years ago I herad about new Amiga virus last time.

Sure any OS can have viryses, but i think that Garry meant that about 99.999999999999999999% of virus coders do not know how to code for the Amiga. And that means that there wont be much viruses for the Amiga, so it wont be any big problem in the near future probably never.

About robustness and so on, that's why development is continued. And that's why new versions os AmigaOIS will be created. Who says that it would be impossible to achive those goals ? Hell even many saiud OS4.0 would be impossible to amke and they were proven wrong.

Ofcourse AmigaOS needs much development, but it is not impossible task.
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 46 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 26-Jul-2004 20:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Anonymous):
>Ofcourse AmigaOS needs much development, but it is not impossible task.

So does a port of Mozilla, and it's not impossible either =)
DR GARRY HARE AMIWEST SPEECH : Comment 47 of 47ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 26-Jul-2004 21:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Anonymous):
You tell me.. What makes it all work *this* time? Adding more money won't make their notoriously bad plan to work. Same people, same business plans and same speeches.

IF Mr Hare had kicked McEwen and Fleecy out and started with fresh and tallented team, there could be chance on thing happening. But as it is, I don't see much hope on positive development.
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