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[Web] Exclusive Online! A New Queens Bits Article!ANN.lu
Posted on 10-Aug-2004 05:10 GMT by Lou Vidal56 comments
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Campaigning for the updating of the Workbench look, a new Queens Bits article traces the look of the Amiga interface from 1.3 to now. Profusely illustrated. The official newsletter of the Queens Amiga Users Group ceased regular publication in the summer of '99 and there have been precious few articles published in the interim. Advocating a more up-to-date, professional-looking Workbench (along with accompanying OS4 applications), club president and former Queens Bits editor, Lou Vidal, has penned an appeal for a new look in the Amiga interface that can proudly hold its own against all the other OSs out there. Check it out on the QAUG website. Examples illustrating the development of Workbench from 1.3 to the future abound. Also make plans to see the ongoing demos of OS4, various machines, and sundry gadgets & goodies at our August meeting this Saturday, the 14th, starting at 11:30 am. Be there!
Exclusive Online! A New Queens Bits Article! : Comment 1 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Anon on 10-Aug-2004 04:15 GMT
Nice article, but what we need is a individual Amiga icon set - not based on some kind of Linux but PNG. Mason did a great job on the new Glow Icons for OS4 but they are symply outdated!

Just my 2 Cents!
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Posted by Anonymous on 10-Aug-2004 04:33 GMT
Queens, the place where Eddie Murphys character in the movie coming to America travelled to meet his queen. Makes one wonder if there are any famous black people who are Amiga users? My guess is that there are none because Amiga users appear to be rascist or prejudice or just weird!
Exclusive Online! A New Queens Bits Article! : Comment 3 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 10-Aug-2004 05:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
heh ain't that the truth.. ;)
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Posted by cheesegrate on 10-Aug-2004 05:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
u forgot extremely sexist, that usually comes from being physically unatractive.
_ as proof i would point you to the amigaworld irc channel esp mikec posts about kylie
Exclusive Online! A New Queens Bits Article! : Comment 5 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 10-Aug-2004 06:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Anon):
"Mason did a great job on the new Glow Icons for OS4 but they are simply outdated!"

The main requirement for program icons is that they should be instantly recognisable.

Personally, I would be happy with buttons with the name of the program. That is, if the program has a sensible name (not like calling an animation player "Frogger"). The problem with sets of icons is that they tend to look too much alike. It makes a pretty screen grab, but may not be so good in practice.

So IMO four or even two colour icons are fine so long as you recognise each one at a glance.
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Posted by Don Cox on 10-Aug-2004 06:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Don Cox):
An example of how not to do it is LouOS4_WB_2.jpg (in the article).

This shows a window containing a dozen icons that are almost identical. So you end up having to read the name underneath. In that case, why have a picture? Leave out the pictures and the text could be bigger.

I have about 50 icons in the dock, all different shapes and sizes. Most of them do stand out clearly so I can go straight to them. But they are not a uniform set.

Another major fault in this example is the heavy background in the Dock, which makes the icons hard to see.

The area on the screen that you can click on to produce a desired result is always a rectangle. IMO icons should match the clickable area. If you make the image smaller than the clickable area, and of an irregular shape, you are making the user's task needlessly difficult.

One thing to remember is that when using an Amiga, you do not spend much time in the Workbench program. It is not like the Windows desktop, which acts as the computer's only public screen. Most of the time on an Amiga, you are using an application program, not Workbench.

However, it may be that if Amigas ever get into retail shops, some kind of pretty display is needed to attract consumers.

I was surprised at the author's negative comment about Bars and Pipes, which he admitted to not having a copy of. This actually has a very good functional interface for what is a dificult and complex task. Certainly Alfred's update which allows you to use a high resolution screen is better than the original 640x256 version, but that is true of any program.

BarsnPipes is much easier to use than Reason, in my experience. Reason is the extreme example of the habit of using a picture of a control panel instead of a control panel. It looks great in screen grabs, but is an ergonomic disaster.
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Posted by Emeric SH on 10-Aug-2004 07:32 GMT
There's Ambient with it's different icon themes made by talented graphicians. Maybe it's time to pay someone for the same in OS4 and finally BLOODY integrate PNG icon support? Now OS4 get's attacked for it's look from their loyals - hope that it will have the same effect that happened to the utterly ugly window looks.

No offence to Mason though - but his icons are simply dated.
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Posted by Anonymous on 10-Aug-2004 07:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Emeric SH):
I'm sure PNG icon support will be added, but if I remember right new icon library (as well as new workbench) will be released in OS4.1 or something like that.

Those icons really are not the most important things to improve right now.

And there already is excellent native PowerIcons for the OS4, so you can use PNG-icons if you wish. I'm sure people are wery happy with PowerIcons. When hyperion have enough time to make new icon system for the OS4 we can then start using it.

There is lot's of MorphOS users too who still use PowerIcons. they use it because they don't like current unfinished Ambient, and because they use m68k Workbench which does not support PNG-icons directly. So for them it's exactly the same situation as for the OS4 users.
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Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 10-Aug-2004 08:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Emeric SH):
> Maybe it's time to pay someone for the same in OS4 and finally BLOODY integrate
> PNG icon support?

You don't know if Mason is paid or not, so please refrain from such statements.

PNG Icon support is achieved via PowerIcons. It won't go further than that, period. PNG icons are all nice but as Don already pointed out, icons should be recognizable in the first place; the number of colors is pretty much irrelevant. If you want them to look colorful, add PowerIcons (and yes, I do use it myself).
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Posted by Emeric SH on 10-Aug-2004 08:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
Why is it then that public outrage over the horrendeus looks you produce must move you forward, instead of changing your view of how a modern OS should look like? OS4 so far has came up with the most uglies looks I've seen - then public outrage followed, and the result was something acceptable, even nice, but not until then. I know you're a coder, and that may be an explanation of your views upon the subject, but average ppl out there are luckily not.

("You" refers to Hyperion)
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Posted by Emeric SH on 10-Aug-2004 08:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
> Maybe it's time to pay someone for the same in OS4 and finally BLOODY integrate
> PNG icon support?

You don't know if Mason is paid or not, so please refrain from such statements.

It's irrevelant, whether Mason is being payed or not, rest assured about that. What I mean if he is unable to come up with modern icons, then get someone else. I hope it's not you deciding in icon look issues.
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Posted by Anonymous on 10-Aug-2004 08:31 GMT
http://qaug.dyndns.org/qaug/WorkbenchLooks_pg4.html

i find it very unfair to publish the pictures like this when you are using completly wrong colours and then flame to the makers of them w/o knowing what you're talking about.

TIP: setup proper MagicWB colours and the phase5 icons will look good, it's not their fault that you're too lame to read docu of magicwb.

pfff...
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Posted by Anonymous on 10-Aug-2004 08:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Emeric SH):
I have not seen any "public outrage over the horrendeus looks".

Most of us, who use OS4 or who really want to use it, do like it's current looks. Manby iof the OS4 screenshots look wery beautiful indeed.

If you want to use PNG icons, nothing is topping you. You can always use Powericons. And if you like Masons icons you can use those.

Personally I do like look of OS4 wery much.
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Posted by Emeric SH on 10-Aug-2004 08:39 GMT
I have not seen any "public outrage over the horrendeus looks".

Then remember back to the days when the first previews of OS4 window looks appeared. (Those were nothing like the current one) "outrage" is probably an exaggeration, but "major disappointment" is safe to say I presume.
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Posted by Anonymous on 10-Aug-2004 08:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Emeric SH):
I have not seen any "public outrage over the horrendeus looks".

Most of us, who use OS4 or who really want to use it, do like it's current looks. Many of the OS4 screenshots do look wery beautiful indeed.

If you want to use PNG icons, nothing is stopping you. You can always use Powericons. And if you like Mason's icons you can use those.

Personally I do like looks of OS4 wery much.
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Posted by Anonymous on 10-Aug-2004 08:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Emeric SH):
Well do you remeber how awful first MOS screenshiots looked ?

I don't undwerstand why you talka about "public outrage" and then you say you are actually talking about FIRST screnshots ? Thse were FIRST, right. Sure everything can have much simpler look in the beginning.

And don't forget that OS4 is wery configurable. if you see some screenshots from the developers computer, it does not mean that looks of it is intended to be official looks.
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Posted by Anonymous on 10-Aug-2004 08:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Anonymous):
dam typos.
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Posted by Emeric SH on 10-Aug-2004 08:46 GMT
"I don't undwerstand why you talka about "public outrage" and then you say you are actually talking about FIRST screnshots ? Thse were FIRST, right. Sure everything can have much simpler look in the beginning."

The difference is in the attitude. In case of OS4 it seems all changes have to happen by force, as there is a heavy resistance of developers against every tiny bit of development on the GUI front - the post of Hans-Joerg Frieden is a perfect example.
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Posted by Gareth Knight on 10-Aug-2004 09:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Emeric SH):
Early screenshots were created to demonstrate the new features, not to show off the pretty icons (which were the standard OS3.x ones). It was always stated that OS4 icons would be created at a later stage). If you look at Bill McEwen's press release from April 2002, he states:
"Amiga has thus asked our partners at Hyperion to provide us with a set of screenshots to show off some of the upcoming features, and this will become a regular event as we seek to highlight particular aspects of our future offering."

Rather than wading through the Amiga site, you can look at most of the early screenshots (if I can actually post html on ANN without messing up) here.
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Posted by Don Cox on 10-Aug-2004 09:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
"If you want to use PNG icons, nothing is stopping you. You can always use Powericons. And if you like Mason's icons you can use those."

I haven't used Powericons, but doesn't it have a problem of only allowing a single image? It is a good thing to have a different (but related) image to show that an icon is selected.
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Posted by Emeric SH on 10-Aug-2004 09:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Gareth Knight):
I still hope that in case of the icons after the there is absolutely no need to that and you can do it with an external program there will finally be some solution coming from the OS4 developers. The default GUI (system) doesn't need to be mind blasting and full of eyecandy, but something from the stone age will definitely be the subject of open criticism.
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Posted by Sammy Nordström on 10-Aug-2004 09:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Emeric SH):
If you say that the AmigaOS4 project only makes progress because of the demand for more features on online forums (such as ANN.lu) and that the realization of such feature requests proves your theory, you're right. All the developers of the AmigaOS4 project is sitting on their arses all day long and we need the whining from ANN.lu trolls to get them going. That's how things get done, right?

Back to reality:

1. The looks are the same thing as with the features of AmigaOS4, they are improved on as the project makes progress. Of bloody course the first screenshots looked alot worse than they do today (duh!), future screenshots will probably look even better, regardless if people demands it or not.

2. Bugging the developers with what YOU think is important for THEIR development project is a) annoying, b) disturbing, and most importantly c) giving them a reason to NOT comply with your request.
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Posted by itix on 10-Aug-2004 09:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Don Cox):
"I haven't used Powericons, but doesn't it have a problem of only allowing a single image? It is a good thing to have a different (but related) image to show that an icon is selected." There are dozens of NewIconst without an alternative image. And AROS supports an alternative image for PNG icons. (But ain't 2nd image just an eyecandy? Who needs that? ;)
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Posted by Emeric SH on 10-Aug-2004 10:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Sammy Nordström):
The cavalry to the rescue?

If you say that the AmigaOS4 project only makes progress because of the demand for more features on online forums (such as ANN.lu) and that the realization of such feature requests proves your theory, you're right. All the developers of the AmigaOS4 project is sitting on their arses all day long and we need the whining from ANN.lu trolls to get them going. That's how things get done, right?

You're distorting my opinion, not even slightly. But in regards of the GUI system, yes I say so that outside pressure played a great part. It seems for Hyperion and the OS4 developers the GUI is a minor issue - and granted that the core developers consist mostly of coders, there is no surprise.

2. Bugging the developers with what YOU think is important for THEIR development project is a) annoying, b) disturbing, and most importantly c) giving them a reason to NOT comply with your request.

I'd like to see OS4 to evolve into such a system I'd gladly use in parallel with MorphOS. What you say may apply to freeware stuffs, but not commercial projects. If you defy the target audience long enough, you lose customers.
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Posted by itix on 10-Aug-2004 10:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (itix):
And if there isnt an alternative image it is always possible have an effect applied in realtime. I.e. Ambient offers 8 different possible effect for selected icon (blur, tint etc...).
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Posted by Don Cox on 10-Aug-2004 11:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (itix):
"And AROS supports an alternative image for PNG icons."

But is that using Powericons?

"(But ain't 2nd image just an eyecandy? Who needs that? ;)"

No, it conveys information. It tells you clearly which icons are selected - for example, if you want to drag some icons in a window.
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Posted by Don Cox on 10-Aug-2004 11:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (itix):
"There are dozens of NewIcons without an alternative image. "

Lazy designers.
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Posted by Gareth Knight on 10-Aug-2004 11:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Don Cox):
It's been a while since I ran PowerIcons on my machine. IIRC PNG icons appear 'shaded' when you click on them. So, yes, there is a change to the visual state.
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Posted by pixie on 10-Aug-2004 11:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Don Cox):
> I haven't used Powericons, but doesn't it have a problem of only allowing a
> single image? It is a good thing to have a different (but related) image to show
> that an icon is selected.

The only (Amiganoid) system I know that can do this with PNG icons is... AROS! ;)
All the others give a Windows type of selection, by tainting it or other such effects...
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Posted by pixie on 10-Aug-2004 11:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (itix):
> And if there isnt an alternative image it is always possible have an effect
> applied in realtime. I.e. Ambient offers 8 different possible effect for
> selected icon (blur, tint etc...).

Don't pretend to compare the effectiveness of such solution with two different images... ;b
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Posted by pixie on 10-Aug-2004 11:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Gareth Knight):
> It's been a while since I ran PowerIcons on my machine. IIRC PNG icons appear
> 'shaded' when you click on them. So, yes, there is a change to the visual state.

Altough there's a change in icon state (thanks god) it isn't as perceptible as having two different images representing two states, on the first solution every icon behaves the same... whereas on second one, there's an uniqness to each icon... it's easier to remember
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Posted by Sammy Nordström on 10-Aug-2004 11:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Emeric SH):
>The cavalry to the rescue?

Please, you're giving me far more credit than I deserve.

>You're distorting my opinion, not even slightly.

I began my post with "If you say that...". That's not distorting your views, it's simply stating an if statement. Exactly who is distorting who here?

>But in regards of the GUI
>system, yes I say so that outside pressure played a great part.

They made it perfectly clear right from the beginning that those initial screenshots where NOT to be considered the final look of AmigaOS4. We would have seen improvements to the looks regardless of the reactions on the ANN.lu forums.

I'm sorry but the point you're trying to make really is far fetched. The outside pressure might have caused them to regret that they made those screenshots public and that they should have waited until more improvemets had been made at the most.

>It seems for
>Hyperion and the OS4 developers the GUI is a minor issue - and granted that
>the core developers consist mostly of coders, there is no surprise.

The core developers are not GUI designers and do not decide wether looks of the GUI are important or not. That's for the GUI designers (ie Matthew Kille, Massimo Tantignone, etc.) to do.

>I'd like to see OS4 to evolve into such a system I'd gladly use in parallel
>with MorphOS.

Dream on. The efforts behind those operating systems are a perfect example of counter productive efforts and it's not very likely that you'll see those two operating systems run on the same hardware any time soon.

>What you say may apply to freeware stuffs, but not commercial
>projects. If you defy the target audience long enough, you lose customers.

As always, it's a matter of balancing the purchasing power you represent and the cost for satisfying your demands. I may be wrong, but you (and the likes of you) do not seem very willing to spend money on their products. If I'm wrong, you must be doing a poor job on showing them your support.
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Posted by AF on 10-Aug-2004 11:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
I want alpha channel & usage of tons of free PNG icons by default. It's not only about colors and I think alpha is important for any modern commercial OS.
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Posted by Emeric SH on 10-Aug-2004 11:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Sammy Nordström):
"As always, it's a matter of balancing the purchasing power you represent and the cost for satisfying your demands. I may be wrong, but you (and the likes of you) do not seem very willing to spend money on their products. If I'm wrong, you must be doing a poor job on showing them your support."

My original Hyperion games may speak volumes of that, but I presume you'd just ignore it all together. And now, in what ways have you supported Hyperion, after trying to account me for that?
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Posted by Don Cox on 10-Aug-2004 12:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (AF):
"It's not only about colors and I think alpha is important for any modern commercial OS."

You only need transparency if the icon image does not match the actual clickable rectangle. I would prefer all icons to be rectangular, so that they show exactly where you can click to get the desired result. That makes positioning the pointer easier and faster.

Looking at the Dock on my Amithlon machine, half of the 50 program icons are rectangles.

I do not think it is a good idea to fill the Amiga up with icon images taken from other platforms. It would be better to have unique designs found only on Amigas.
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Posted by Emeric SH on 10-Aug-2004 12:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Don Cox):
"I do not think it is a good idea to fill the Amiga up with icon images taken from other platforms. It would be better to have unique designs found only on Amigas."

I fear, just as we don't have enough developers, we simply don't have enough capable graphicians to "do the job". The PNG icons are widespread, easy to use, very attractive - and readily available.
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Posted by Sammy Nordström on 10-Aug-2004 12:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Emeric SH):
I bought HereticII from Hyperion and I'm satisfied with it. Actually, I'm more than just satisfied, I'm quite impressed by the performance they managed to squeeze out of such small print hardware and OS with that game. Furthermore, I'm grateful that they are still around when they could (and should from a business standpoint) left the Amiga and gone for what is actually giving them revenue; the Linux and Mac markets. Spending years on developing an OS for a market that is sure to not provide them with enough revenue to cover the expenses is not something just anybody would do. The fact that they also have made a very good job on AmigaOS4 so far is a neat bonus. They seem very competent with what they do and they have my full confidence.
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Posted by Emeric SH on 10-Aug-2004 12:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Sammy Nordström):
Applying your presumptions, I could say that you (and the likes of you) simply did pretty little to support Hyperion, and are more vocal than financial supporters of them. Criticism can be annoying, and at times hard to deal with, but am I safe to say that it's better to have critical customers, than vocal supporters who don't put their money where their mouth is?
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Posted by Sammy Nordström on 10-Aug-2004 13:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Emeric SH):
>Applying your presumptions, I could say that you (and the likes of you)
>simply did pretty little to support Hyperion, and are more vocal than
>financial supporters of them. Criticism can be annoying, and at times hard to
>deal with, but am I safe to say that it's better to have critical customers,
>than vocal supporters who don't put their money where their mouth is?

So, you're just "critisizing", while I'm beeing "vocal"? Nice twist.

1. Responding to your strongly voiced posts about the importance of having a good looking GUI doesn't make *me* "vocal".

2. I'm sure Hyperion appreciates that you and I both have bought some of their games, but that still doesn't make you nor me a "financial supporter" of the AmigaOS4 project. Come back when you've actually purchased a copy of AmigaOS4.

3. Customers that cause more trouble and expenses than what they've paid for are customers that they would be better off without.
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Posted by Lando on 10-Aug-2004 13:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
"If you want to use PNG icons, nothing is topping you. You can always use Powericons. And if you like Masons icons you can use those."

But should people really be having to use Amibench hacks already to make their so-new-its-not-even-out-yet OS look good? Surely it would be better for them to take the extra time and integrate PNG support, and pay someone to create a new default standard set of PNG icons to ship with the OS.
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Posted by Sammy Nordström on 10-Aug-2004 14:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Lando):
There will always be Aminet hacks to "improve" the looks and functionality of the OS, no matter how extensive OS they make. Question is; where do you draw the line? When do you stop chasing those hacks and freeze the feature set for the product release? As Hyperion said, they will rework the entire icon system and looks in later versions of the AmigaOS. Right now, it's more important to get the product out there, don't you agree?
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Posted by Amon_Re on 10-Aug-2004 15:42 GMT
What a silly thread oO

I'm with Don Cox, practicality above eyecandy
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Posted by Bill Toner on 10-Aug-2004 15:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Emeric SH):
Stop complaining and make a new iconset to your liking, and show us what we should want our computers to look like. I haven't seen any large numbers of people complaining about what's there now. Only a few. If you don't like it, stop whining and do something about it. It's not the coders job to draw icons, so it's not their problem in any way at all. You can either encourage the guy making the OS4 default icons to go in whatever direction you want, or do it yourself. But complaining here, with very few people joining you, makes it seem like a not very important problem at the moment. The coders have much more important things to do than to worry about you and three other people wanting different icons drawn...
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Posted by sutro on 10-Aug-2004 21:37 GMT
I'd rather see as much discussion activity and development effort about more important OS and UI aspects than just icons and widgets. What about better support for drag&drop, contextual menus, a more sophisticated file manager, file system encapsulation, etc.
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Posted by Anonymous on 10-Aug-2004 21:39 GMT
Black people will only buy Pegasos systems, not A1's for several reasons.

One reason for not buying A1's is because of all the rascist BAFs.

The other reason, is that for generations in white america black people were treated like they were stupid and ignorant, you know.

The A1 is well suited for stupid and ignorant people, because it is a hacked up PC clone motherboard with a half baked and defective PPC northbridge slotted in where the PC northbridge would normally sit.

Since black people are neither stupid nor ignorant, they would never buy an A1.

Black people would only buy a Pegasos, cuz itz sleek bling bling PPC machine!

Pimp'up ya PegasosPPC ya'll! Das bling bling go 'round! Straight from da HOOD! Yea, WORD!!!

Yo BAF!?!?!?!? We be kickin ya skinny white boi ass back to da crib! WORD!

Bring Da NoiZe!
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Posted by G Dawg1 on 10-Aug-2004 21:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Anonymous):
YO DAWG!!!! Don Cox, Aint he a brother?
Exclusive Online! A New Queens Bits Article! : Comment 47 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 11-Aug-2004 04:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Emeric SH):
Dude, the first screenshots were using a multitude of colours that didn't necessarily come together in an estethical way, JUST TO SHOW HOW MUCH COULD BE USER CONFIGURED. It was so early in the process that a proper design was not done, and everyone with half a head knew that the final result would only have the same configurability, NOT THE COLOURS. I say "half a head", because it doesn't take too much brains to read something that is clearly specified.

Now, some people STILL had to comment on the "choice" of colours rather than the set of functionality. I guess that's the "outcry" you think of. Well, know that a: those colours were never meant to be used in any public release, and b: they were never used either.

Now, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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Posted by Don Cox on 11-Aug-2004 07:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Olegil):
"Now, some people STILL had to comment on the "choice" of colours rather than the set of functionality. I guess that's the "outcry" you think of. Well, know that a: those colours were never meant to be used in any public release, and b: they were never used either."

I think the "outcry" was because the colours were amazingly nasty, even for a demo of the possibilities. I do think that whoever chose them was almost certainly colour blind.

However, it is all history now.
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Posted by Anonymous on 11-Aug-2004 23:25 GMT
I don't think there's anything wrong with GlowIcons. Some of us *do* still use AGA ... remember that OS3.9 is still the latest stable version of AmigaOS.

And the negative tone of the article is quite evident, perhaps he should make tutorials rather than opinion pieces? It seems the Amiga community has some bizarre sort of icon fetish, there are many more important components of the system than icons...
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Posted by itix on 12-Aug-2004 00:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Don Cox):
>> "(But ain't 2nd image just an eyecandy? Who needs that? ;)"> No, it conveys information. It tells you clearly which icons are selected - for example,> if you want to drag some icons in a window. It does? If you try icons from WB 3.0, do you know which icons are selected and which not? I used to like glowicons because there was the glow effect when icon was selected. Visually very easy to know which icons were selected.
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