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[News] Two new µ-A1's models on the wayANN.lu
Posted on 28-Aug-2004 15:44 GMT by Still Articia?170 comments
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Two MiniITX A1's models are on the way, both G3. The first one is very similar to the "beta" versions that was sold earlier. The price for this one will be $600USD/500EUR, excluding VAT. The other version will also offer some more features such as Firewire, Gigabit Ethernet and an additional (custom?) PCI connector, and will cost $700USD/600EUR.

More info at: http://www.eyetech.co.uk/addbar.php?Address=/NEWS/TWONE001.HTM

Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 51 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 28-Aug-2004 19:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (pixie):
To run what with it ? ;-)
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 52 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 28-Aug-2004 19:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (brotheris):
Simple, if AROS isn't good enough to you or/and doesn't suit your needs, you can always have QNX, Linux, BeOS, NetBSD, FreeBSD or even Windows or Amiga Forever 6(at an extra price)... I think it has support to enough OSs don't you think!? ;)
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 53 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 28-Aug-2004 19:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (pixie):
"You've been robed, an x86 AROS system costs way less than that and has a better motherboard and a 3Ghz X86 processor."

And doesn't run any existing 68k or PPC Amiga apps.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 54 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Aug-2004 19:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (pixie):
> You've been robed, an x86 AROS system costs way less than that and has a better motherboard and a 3Ghz X86 processor

If only AROS was supported by developers. You have to install an emulator on this AMD system and that'll eat up much of those fab 3 GHz. You'll end up with a system slower than a G4, at a higher price (at least vs a Peggy), with an outdated OS. Eveybody needs a PC but if you are serious about Amiga, buying a PPC board unfortunately can not be avoided.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 55 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Aug-2004 20:33 GMT
It looks like the reason the whole kaboodle is so expensive is the cost of the processor module, everything else seems reasonably priced considering the low number of boards that will be made.

This is 2002 mini-iTX level technology (comparing to EPIA800) but with a much more superior CPU than the C3 and the graphics are much better toom as is the audio. The EPIA800 costs around £70 new at the moment. The motherboard part at £130 isn't priced that badly. If only the processor module was closer to £70 than £170.

So it is an advance over the original AmigaOne which was 1999 level at best. But mini-itx has moved on a lot since. OTOH both are way better than a hacked together 1993 system!

I can't believe that MAI hasn't even released a new chipset since the original Artica-S though. How lame.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 56 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by batman on 28-Aug-2004 21:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Anonymous):
I doubt one will lose his finger in that machine, for this simple reason: any cutting machine that could harm the operator must have an independent security system (i.e. a door: if it's open, the cutting engine doesn't ever start, no matter what the CPU thinks). It's the law, baby.

However, the kind of task done by industrial machines doesn't need DMA.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 57 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by lafranka on 28-Aug-2004 21:48 GMT
It should dont be a flame:

Without DVI-OUT and the MPC7447 with 1GHz or more as STANDARD, in
fact - i dont buy one.

I'm more frustrated.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 58 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 28-Aug-2004 23:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (batman):
Putting an A1 in that still makes no sense at all though. And no,
putting a Peg in it wouldn't make sense either. It would be slightly
less madness, for price and reliability reasons (*demonstrated*
reliability, before someone eats me) but it would be silly
nonetheless.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 59 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 29-Aug-2004 03:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (batman):
And, how many industrial thingys have you designed and how many of them have been successfully installed in real life???
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 60 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 29-Aug-2004 06:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Seehund):
How the heck do you fit PCI AND AGP on a mini-ITX board?
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 61 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 29-Aug-2004 06:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Bernie Meyer):
Ok, thanks. Wonder why I haven't heard about it?

I guess it takes less space than PC/104?
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 62 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 29-Aug-2004 06:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Olegil):
Unfortunately not.. it's 2mm pitch square pin connector .. 4 * 30 pins, stackable same way as older PC/104.. total PITA to solder on a board.

It has allmost all the features old 104 had (astronomical price, weird mechanical specs etc) but there are very little cards for it ATM...
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 63 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 29-Aug-2004 06:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (JoannaK):
Addendum.. Link to older (V1.0) specs.. http://www.winsystems.com/specs/pci-104_spec_%20v1_0.pdf
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 64 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Johan on 29-Aug-2004 07:15 GMT
Only more than the double price of the Pegasos 2 which delivered the same stuff over a year ago...
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 65 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Aug-2004 07:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Johan):
> Only more than the double price of the Pegasos 2 which delivered the same stuff over a year ago...

Hardly the same. It has a working memory controller for DDR RAM, useful PCI slots, is available with a G4 (ie. Altivec), can run Linux just fine etc. It's a much better system for most users. On the other hand, it doesn't have the mini-itx form factor and this 104 slot, whatever that is. Obviously the new micro-A1 boards are targeted at some niche. I'm just not sure what it is.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 66 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 29-Aug-2004 08:43 GMT
I'll resume my thoughts with two words:
FUCKING EXPENSIVE

Most of friends I have that were thinking about buying a modern amiga solution will buy a PegasosG4 for less than that.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 67 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by batman on 29-Aug-2004 08:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Johan Rönnblom):
It's not silly. Just check any industrial machine. ;-)
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 68 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by batman on 29-Aug-2004 08:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (JoannaK):
Oh, I studied those beasts at high school (technical specialization).
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 69 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 29-Aug-2004 08:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (JoannaK):
Hmm.. apparentlly link inseting didn't work out ok.. Well, just use copy/paste instead of clickin the link. it'll work.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 70 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Aug-2004 09:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (ikir):
Leecher ;-)
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 71 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 29-Aug-2004 09:33 GMT
£170 for an 800Mhz processor thats basically crippled compared to other current processors. Wow. Bargain.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 72 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 29-Aug-2004 11:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (Olegil):
How the heck do you fit PCI AND AGP on a mini-ITX board?

Doh! Yeah, being mini-ITX is a problem in itself. In this case it's academic anyway, since it would mean a redesign of the Teron Mini.

Not that I think it'd be physically impossible to fit it all on 170x170 mm. Dropping some of the "legacy" garbage (serial, PS/2, game/MIDI) would go a long way. Allegedly, there's already room for one PCI connector plus one 83x11(?) mm PCI-104 connector.

Then again, AFAIK "Mini-ITX" really is a VIA "standard" (recommendation? trademark?) for x86 motherboards, so as long as everything fits in a Mini-ITX case then deviating even more from this standard by adding/removing connectors isn't a big deal.

Gentlemen, start your Dremels.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 73 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Aug-2004 11:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (AdmV):
Crippled in clockspeed, but it is faster clock for clock than a Motorola G4, although it lacks Altivec.

It would be nice if there was an option to get say a 1.5 GHz G4 instead, although it would cost more of course.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 74 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 29-Aug-2004 13:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (JoannaK):
"Don: I Have been designing and making industrial type embedded 68K and PPC boards for last 5 years ... And I can tell you this one don't sell with price like that. It does not have OS support (Qnx + Linux minimum) nor does it offer enough necessary HW-goodies for Industry use."

Yet the announcement strongly implies that Eyetech have customers lined up. Otherwise, why would they go into production at all? Sales to the desktop computer market can only ever be icing on the cake.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 75 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 29-Aug-2004 14:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Anonymous):
"Maybe you have found a micro-A1 niche ;) Hope those don't need DMA and Linux, would hate to loose a finger in a milling cutter machine."

Of course they don't.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 76 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 29-Aug-2004 14:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (pixie):
"Simple, if AROS isn't good enough to you or/and doesn't suit your needs, you can always have QNX, Linux, BeOS, NetBSD, FreeBSD or even Windows or Amiga Forever 6(at an extra price)... I think it has support to enough OSs don't you think!? ;)"

Not if you want to boot straight into an OS that runs Amiga programs. Get AROS up to the standard of Amithlon and it might be interesting.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 77 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 29-Aug-2004 14:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Don Cox):
Well, "implying" stuff that isn't quite true is a necessary skill when
writing PR, have you missed that?

Anyway, looking at the price I highly doubt they have any "big
secret orders". And if they had, I'm sure we'd know!
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 78 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Aug-2004 14:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Johan Rönnblom):
I dont eyetech would say anything & if they did it would be after the sales & not before.

Can you tell the history of sales to non amiga fans eyetech have sold to over the many years with there custom rack mounted amiga based systems. because that is where the bulk of eyetech's money has come from in the past and eyetech are clearly looking to continue exspand.

I would say that eyetech has contacts over the years.
The only reason why that eyetech are even bothering is because the old amiga line was getting too long in the tooth & it was looking like if they did not try to get new HW them selfs there would be none.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 79 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 29-Aug-2004 15:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Anonymous):
"The only reason why that eyetech are even bothering is because the old amiga line was getting too long in the tooth & it was looking like if they did not try to get new HW them selfs there would be none." They could buy cheap Pegs and have better margin still... :-P
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 80 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 29-Aug-2004 15:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (itix):
There's got to be a reason why Eyetech doesn't want to use the Pegasos boards, we just don't know what that reason is.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 81 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 29-Aug-2004 16:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Olegil):
It seems to be a NewThing[tm]. I hadn't heard about it, either, and was quite surprised to find it with a quick google search.I'd suspect (but don't know!) that the PCI/104 is significantly smaller and/or performant than PC/104plus (which has both ISA and PCI bus). I guess these days, PCI interfaces are a dime a dozen.... (and at least Jens knows how to interface to them --- but it's not a matter of a couple of TTL chips or even a PAL, unfortunately).
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 82 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 29-Aug-2004 16:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Amon_Re):
Like it is relevant anyway.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 83 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Aug-2004 16:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Don Cox):
> Yet the announcement strongly implies that Eyetech have customers lined up. Otherwise, why would they go into production at all?

Why not? It's not as if this is an Eytech-made product with enormous amounts of R&D to be re-financed. That burden lies with MAI and their providers. I understand that Eyetech is only concerned with the financial side of a production run? With 800 US$ per item, it sounds as if even a small production run can be viable.

> Sales to the desktop computer market can only ever be icing on the cake.

A very cheap OR very good mini-itx board with PPC would sell just fine (for Linux, for MacOS). It appears the main problem to build an 800 MHZ board for 99 EUR is the enormous price of the CPU. Somebody should hit Mororola with a big stick.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 84 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Aug-2004 16:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Amon_Re):
> There's got to be a reason why Eyetech doesn't want to use the Pegasos boards, we just don't know what that reason is.

It is much more convenient to have a monopoly and everybody buying from you, isn't it? Of course it's also much more risky. It great to see that Eytech is willing to take that risk. It's sad to see that Hyperion is muddled up in the mainboard business rather than taking a strict line of impartiality.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 85 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 29-Aug-2004 16:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (Anonymous):
Honestly i doubt it's that simple
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 86 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 29-Aug-2004 16:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (Seehund):
Putting in the PCI-104 meant sacrificing the CPU slot, would you be comfortable with doing the same sacrifice for AGP? Remember that the PCI-104 can be located on the inner end of the PCB (towards front of case), AGP has to be located next to PCI slots to work, and NO case on the market will support AGP AND PCI on mini-ITX.

That's a heck of a lot of sacrifices just to please one person :-)
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 87 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 29-Aug-2004 16:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Johan Rönnblom):
If we knew they would hardly be secret, would they? :-P
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 88 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 29-Aug-2004 17:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Bernie Meyer):
"It seems to be a NewThing[tm]. I hadn't heard about it, either, and was quite surprised to find it with a quick google search."

Rub it in, why don't you? :-)
I was WAY to quick to dismiss PCI-104 as a typo :-(

Whish we had some pictures of the board, and some more specs on those extra interfaces (like how to make that riser). I have bad experience with building electronics to interface with untested features on AmigaOne hardware (I have a homebrew soundcard for the SE that shows the excact same symptoms that sound on the XE does ;-) )
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 89 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 29-Aug-2004 17:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (Anonymous):
Except it is an IBM CPU ;-)
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 90 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 29-Aug-2004 17:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (Amon_Re):
I attempt to disbelieve as well :-)
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 91 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 29-Aug-2004 18:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Anonymous):
Warehouse management systems.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 92 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 29-Aug-2004 19:00 GMT
Interesting boards, sensible (to Eyetech & Co) prices.

Also it seems that the price for the customer is also slightly better than before... (Lower price but more features)

I'm looking forward to try AOS4 with the industrial miniA1. 1Mb of the L2 will help (the CPU) a lot if Artisia is having hard time managing MEM/PCI/AGP/CPU traffic.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 93 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Aug-2004 20:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (priest):
> Also it seems that the price for the customer is also slightly better than before... (Lower price but more features)

More features is a double-edged sword because they come in the package of an inflexible mini-itx board and are soldered to the PCB and thus you must take what you get, inferior as they may be. Unfortunately, I don't see much quality among the components of these boards. I would be happier if it had an AGP slot (rather than the terrible 7000 gfx core) for a card with DVI, and USB 2.0 and DDR-RAM and a 1.x GHz CPU and SATA. 1 GBit ethernet on-board and Firewire are the only good points. Unfortunately, the fast Ethernet chip connects to the PCI bus, so it's somewhat wasted. If you take quality into account, the price is a shocker. My impression is that these boards are not well-designed at all: extra features like Firewire are the icing on the cake but the cake must be good and it is not. They must get the fundamental issues right first: USB 2.0, DDR-RAM, SATA. Problem is MAI, will they ever get it right?
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 94 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 29-Aug-2004 20:24 GMT
Olegil: Well I don't exactly trust Eyetech's ability to keep a secret.
Especially not a secret that would be good PR for them. My personal
policy whenever judging companies, products, etc is always "what you
see is what you get, at best". Any "hidden", "promised" or "future"
stuff is much more likely to be negative than positive.


As for USB2.0, I don't personally think it's such a big deal. But of
course, if you only have one PCI slot it will be, for some.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 95 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Adam Kowalczyk on 29-Aug-2004 20:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Amon_Re):
"There's got to be a reason why Eyetech doesn't want to use the Pegasos boards, we just don't know what that reason is."

Are you ignorant, stupid, or a bit of both? I mean seriously, which rock did you crawl from underneath to not know the history of why this will not happen?
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 96 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Aug-2004 20:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Johan Rönnblom):
> As for USB2.0, I don't personally think it's such a big deal. But of
course, if you only have one PCI slot it will be, for some

That's a good point, so why do you think it is no big deal? Almost anything can be connected to USB 2.0, it's the door to the world. Digital TV, disk drives, bluetooth, webcams and other digital imaging devices, anything. I'm aware that current southbridges available to us do not have USB 2.0 at no extra costs but would it be so terribly difficult/expensive to slab a small USB chip to the mainboard? My first MSI (with a similar SB as the one on Amiga/Pegasos boards) hat such a chip.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 97 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Aug-2004 21:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Anonymous):
AmigaOne isn't amiga too, is another PowerPC board but with the exception that is CRAP.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 98 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 29-Aug-2004 23:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (Olegil):
(I have a homebrew soundcard for the SE that shows the excact same symptoms that sound on the XE does ;-) )

What exactly are those? If the nature of the problem ever got explained (beyond 'never expect it ever'), I managed to miss it.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 99 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 30-Aug-2004 02:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Anonymous):
According to price watch
$180 - Pentium 4 530 3.0GHz LGA775
$103 - ECS Intel 915P chipset
[$283]

$176 - Pentium 4 3.0GHz 800MHz
$89 - Intel PIV P4 800FSB 875
[$265]

$153 - Athlon 64 3000+.
$78 - Chaintek VNF3-250 NVIDIA NFORCE3
[$231]

$299 is an easy target.
Two new µ-A1's models on the way : Comment 100 of 170ANN.lu
Posted by i'm not here on 30-Aug-2004 03:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Anonymous):
just imagine someone saying, i bought another peecee, with a 3ghz processor..
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