28-Mar-2024 16:31 GMT.
UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Anonymous, there are 160 items in your selection [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 150] [151 - 160]
[Forum] The anti-AmigaOS4 trollANN.lu
Posted on 03-Sep-2004 11:39 GMT by Willem v/d Werf160 comments
View flat
View list
Trolling has almost become a dominant behavior on Amiga/AROS/MorphOS forums and leaves its marks on the reputation of the community and that's why I think it deserves an article and an open discussion. I have been lurking on Amiga forums for quite some time but our local Amiga usergroup closed its doors many years ago, all I own is a A1200 without too impressive specifications and hopefully one day a new Amiga computer. This is mostly a summary of my personal experiences and my interpretation of events which I use to investigate the anti-AmigaOS4 trolling we see today by mostly a small vocal group of AROS and MorphOS supporters. I will name no names and it's really more relating to a diverse group of people often acting in a rather similar way when it comes to AmigaOS4. Please read the whole article before just flaming away. Trolling has been on the rise and it seems to be worst around times when there is something positive to report with regard to AmigaOS4 progress. One big shocker must have been when AmigaOS4 booted in Workbench for the first time on AmigaOne hardware many months ago. Judging from many previous comments this was something many AROS/MorphOS advocates would never have expected to see happening. The core developers stated that this was an enormous milestone for them, although at this early stage the general performance wasn't really impressive yet, but would greatly improve in course of time. When this positive news arrived one thing was very obvious, trolling had gone through the roof yet again!

Videos of AmigaOS4 booting for the first time made various vocal AROS/MorphOS advocates claim that AmigaOS4 would be hopelessly slow and flawed when finished, despite the fact that the developers and various other people explained to them that this was due to things like interpreted emulation and a generally very early AmigaOne version. Most trolls immediately claimed that this was impossible to be the case and continued insisting on AmigaOS4 being hopelessly flawed.

When at a later stage development reached another milestone and a video demonstration of native drivers finally proved that AmigaOS4 is indeed turning out to be blazingly fast trolling went through the roof yet again and this time with people even claiming that the video was faked. New videos then debunked these claims without any reasonable doubt finally leaving lots of trolls without further ammunition for now.

Soon the AmigaOS4 DMA drivers are expected to be released and Hyperion is said to have taken extra care to make the trolling regarding alleged 'non-working DMA support' go to rest for once and for all. Despite the fact that many Beta-testers already confirmed that DMA now functions properly the mass trolling never really ended. According to Hyperion the DMA troubles with Linux are due to a later discovered incompatibility of a uncommon ArticiaS feature and between the current LinuxPPC kernel and explained that this would thus be of no problem and actually this feature would offer a performance benefit to AmigaOS4 users. I expect that the trolls will go through the roof again if they are proven wrong yet again, so be prepared!

Generally success seems to run parallel with these trolls getting upset. Be it about hardware milestones like Eyetech's announcement of new MicroA1 boards becoming available or new AmigaOS4 milestones reached under the leadership of Hyperion. Another such example is also AmigaWorld.net which has lately grown in popularity at amazing rates and is now receiving around one million page views a month! AmigaWorld.net is a website specifically developed as a source for AmigaOS4 supporters, but occasionally you will see a MorphOS or AROS troll sharing their outrage there, starting fights and later retreat to other forums to share their outrage yet again about being moderated. Be it outrages about not be able to insult people freely, outrages about OS4Depot allegedly 'destroying' Aminet 'because it only distributes AmigaOS4 software' (like various MorphOS web sites, but these are not a target), or outrages about weekly Q&A sessions with Amiga Inc's CTO, who was backed by an impressive list of AmigaOS4 (mostly the Frieden brothers) and AmigaDE developers to answer technical questions as well as possible, or outrages about Amiga Inc's problems this community portal itself cannot do anything about, examples are plenty!

OK, let's get to Amiga Inc then, a small company which had mega-lo-manic plans but eventually ran into financial problems a few years ago. Interestingly the same people who cried outrage about Amiga Inc's financial problems later vividly tried to belittle Genesi's almost identical financial problems (most importantly not being able to pay its employees anymore) and trashing their 'great' plans and Amiga community focuss! When Amiga Inc's problems first came to light there were many trolls claiming even that without any doubt they knew the company had gone into bankruptcy ans spread this misinformation all across the internet. The shock would probably have been great for these trolls when they later discovered that Amiga Inc was indeed still alive and has just recently been taken over by people who don't seem to have the well known money problems of the past. And maybe even more funny are claims that Amiga Inc would have hired the people at AmigaWorld.net in some way and claims that web sites like ANN and AO would operate far more independently. This while fact really is that Amiga Inc never sponsored AmigaWorld.net but Genesi did indeed sponsor both ANN and AO web sites, seemingly (ab)used their websites for propaganda purposes and even employed these webmasters.

Regardless of all this there seems to be as good as no AmigaOS4 advocate trolling on MorphOS or AROS-only forums, nor does there seem to be anyone crying outrage all the time when it's of no concern to the AmigaOS4 project. The general attitude just seems to be "Oh you like MorphOS, good for you. I 'am getting'/like AmigaOS4 instead. :-)" What makes the general AmigaOS4 supporter so different from the more vocal MorphOS/AROS supporters? Both 'camps' originate from the same Amiga community! So somewhere there seems to have been a split between two very differently thinking fractions of the Amiga community.

Please use calm argumentation instead of the more attacks and flaming in reply to this article. Sadly I can imagine that the people who feel liable with regard to all the mentioned trolling will not act differently in reply to this article.

Willem v/d Werf
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 1 of 160ANN.lu
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Pirates links
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 2 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Sep-2004 09:48 GMT
OS4 supporters are no better here on ANN.
If you mean AWorld.net, then its more a
situation where MOS/AROS folks try to give
some advice on things, and OS4 folks reacts on
that as if theyve been attacked.

Then we have the bill_buck_is_evil talks
going on, now thats personal attacks.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 3 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 03-Sep-2004 09:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
Maybe because they have...
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 4 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 03-Sep-2004 09:57 GMT
Strange is that AROS / AOS4 relationships weren't always of that kind, and still never up to the degree of MorphOS. I think it' because MorphOS users thinks they are the righteous owners the Amiga heritage, whereas AROS never went that way... they went x86 instead! :D
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 5 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Sep-2004 10:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
It's more in the vain of "We did it this way, so it MUST be the correct way.". One perfect example was the long heated ongoing debate of whether a "quad" was the correct definiation for a 64bit value on a PPC only operating system.

Fabio seemed to think so, Rogue preferred calling it int64. Whichever way is "correct" (and I'm not even going to take sides here so this doesn't turn into another 100 post thread about the correctness of calling a 64bit variable on a 32bit system quad) the battle raged on indefinately. Just because someone has implemented something in one way in some amiga alternitive operating system, doesn't mean it's always the one, and only one correct way to do something. Programmers are generally rather smart people, smart people generally like to think their ideas are the best, when two of them meet and disagree on implementation issues, they usually disagree. Fact, live with it, move on.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 6 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 03-Sep-2004 10:33 GMT
I definitely claim that the AmigaOne, due to the Articia, has broken
DMA and that there will not be reliable DMA enabled drivers without a
heavy speed penalty. To that I could add that the beta testers
claiming that the internal drivers "work fine" seem to either be
satisfied with low performance, or they are not very good betatesters.
But from personal experience, I know that it's not such an easy job to
spot this problem.

Now if this makes me a "troll" in your eyes then so be it. Then you
can put a name on me next time, because I certainly won't stop stating
my opinion on this matter.


> What makes the general AmigaOS4 supporter so different from the more
> vocal MorphOS/AROS supporters?

An inferiority complex, caused by the very non-finished state of the
system they advocate, perhaps? Well, if so, it should get better with
time, as OS4 gets more usable.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 7 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 03-Sep-2004 10:34 GMT
Too bad it's only one side of the coin.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 8 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Peg2 on 03-Sep-2004 10:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Derek):
Dear Derek!

I wonder, why don't you post a link to the MorphOS ISO too?
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 9 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 03-Sep-2004 10:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
He's in the Bizz, so yes, he's Evil :P
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 10 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Mr.Return on 03-Sep-2004 10:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Peg2):
The symbol of Amiga is a ball so he probably thinks his balls get bigger if he spreads warez with balls on it ;-)
Don't ask, I've my funny day ...
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 11 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 03-Sep-2004 10:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Johan Rönnblom):
Your opinion, not a fact of life (yet).
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 12 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 03-Sep-2004 10:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Peg2):
Yea! I want to download the SuperBundle!
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 13 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 03-Sep-2004 11:08 GMT
Thanks for providing a rather comprehensive listing of symptoms among the more infamous aw.net visitors/staff, that readers otherwise would have to either take courses in psychology or perform research on the Internet to comprehend.
Paranoia. Persecution complex. Groupthink. Sides. Good vs Evil. Us vs The Undesirables. Handy labels to apply on dissenters. "Constructive" (rehashing and praising press releases and marketing, animated smileys) vs "Trolling" (discussion, including views opposing the cult leader/company).

This is mostly a summary of my personal experiences and my interpretation of events which I use to investigate the anti-AmigaOS4 trolling we see today by mostly a small vocal group of AROS and MorphOS supporters.

The "we" word is important. "WE are everything. WE are righteous. THEY are everywhere."

As for the specifics in your elaborate (bravo!) troll, it's worrying to see that there indeed seems to have been some truth in what some aw.net patien... regulars have been bragging with: Isolation. "I don't visit those other sites anymore". "It's just FUD and trolling".

"The Evil Ones say that X will never happen." Paranoid delusions. I honestly cannot remember ever seeing anyone, no matter what cult they belong to, claim for example that AOS4 (and presumably following versions) would be as hopelessly slow as the earliest alphas that actually booted on Teron motherboards.

In another ANN thread (god, somebody get aw.net up and running already!) I see a poster who still believes that Bill Buck has called him a moron, which I assume means that one popular "BAF" myth, arising from an old a.org thread, is still alive and prospering in isolation. ("BBRV" mentioned "the morons in the [title of thread] thread". There were lots of moron statements in that thread, but in aw.net mythology the statement is fondly/masochistically/paranoically/oddly interpreted as "he called me, everyone in that thread, and everyone who wants to buy AmigaOS 'morons'".)
(To the cultists who right now are trying to decide whether I belong to any of your idiotic sides: Note that I'm not defending Buck here, it's impolite to call people morons (even when you don't say who you mean, like here), and at the very least it doesn't look good for a representative of a company to do so.)

I was hoping that the "'good' announcements about AOS4 and/or Terons are deliberately followed by organised trolling/FUD/'counter-announcements'" nonsense had died out, but it seems isolation has kept that idiocy flourishing as well, unless you were joking.

Apart from the occasional guffaw, it's mostly sad and depressing when one gets a glimpse of what goes on in the the psychiatric isolation ward. This time was no different.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 14 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Sep-2004 11:09 GMT
Well, this post was short and meaningful ... NOT!
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 15 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 03-Sep-2004 11:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Seehund):
So much words, and so much little content
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 16 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Sep-2004 11:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Derek):
What do you think you are doing ?

You have only two options:

1) You stop sending warez links here.

2) I'll send mail to your ISP and ask them to close your account.

You are free to choose.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 17 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by fed up with blue/red war on 03-Sep-2004 11:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Seehund):
@Seehund,

Please give it up, this gains nothing, and there are more important things in the world to think about right now.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 18 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Tryo on 03-Sep-2004 11:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Anonymous):
Maybe Agima can do a whois lookup on the links given and post the results of this.

Would be much more effective to get the warez removed than to get some kind of messenger cut off from his ISP, don't you think?
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 19 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 03-Sep-2004 11:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (pixie):
Just like the original post.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 20 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 03-Sep-2004 11:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Amon_Re):
Amon_Re:

Sure, it's my opinion. Some people obviously have different opinions.
Does that make me a troll? Clearly, my opinion is not well tolerated
on AW.net.

Btw, what do you think it would take before this opinion became
"fact"? What if a driver is released, and someone shows how it can
cause data corruption? Do you then think the Articia is faulty, or
will you believe Hyperion when they say it's just a small problem,
which will be fixed in the next update? When no such update appears
for a month or six, do you then think the Articia is in fact faulty,
or do you believe Hyperion when they say the issue is not prioritised
as the problem doesn't happen very often anyway?

You know, I've stated repeatedly that I'll change my opinion if
someone releases a working DMA driver for the A1 that gives similar
performance to the Pegasos 1, and that isn't shown to produce corrupt
output within a reasonable time after public release, say one month.
To this date, NO ONE with the "opinion" that the Articia is NOT broken
has stated what they would accept as proof that it is. From this, my
conclusion is that these people generally have no interest in the
truth, and will believe Hyperion even if they say the moon is made of
cheese.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 21 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Jake on 03-Sep-2004 11:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Tryo):
If multi million dollar companies (MPAA,RIAA,FACT) can not stop it, i hardly think a few obsessed Amiga users can stop it.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 22 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Sep-2004 11:48 GMT
Interesting post ! As far as I can see most attack come from the amiga side. I netheir seen Aos/Mos bad post or war on Morphzone. Here on ann there are always stupid and mean post. It is not question of having a Peg or an Amiga it is about having the device that fit th best for you. Critics are good if true and constructive. Lot of people here doens't have a clue about how to run a company and how to create a market for ppc board. 95% of people are usinng MSFT and it is not making bad advertizing that will push people to try another device.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 23 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 03-Sep-2004 11:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (hooligan/dcs):
it's a bit more 'original' though... ;)
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 24 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Jupp3 on 03-Sep-2004 11:55 GMT
>AmigaWorld.net is a website specifically developed as a source for AmigaOS4 supporters.

Isn't Amigaworld a website developed for "anything amiga", Classic Amigas, AmigaOnes, AmigaDE, running variety of operating systems (Classic AmigaOS, AmigaOS4 pre-release, Linux...)

(Of course excluding running MorphOS on Amiga) :-)
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 25 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 03-Sep-2004 11:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Anonymous):
Are you implying that on AW.net they attack MOS!? The only site I see attacks from camps is in here (I don't read german).. but it has lot's of good stuff to compensate though
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 26 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 03-Sep-2004 12:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Derek):
Hey! Half these links don't work! What's the big idea?

You're a crap pirate.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 27 of 160ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 26 (Rik Sweeney):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Insult
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 28 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 03-Sep-2004 12:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Tryo):
212.33.154.196
Record Type: IP Address

OrgName: RIPE Network Coordination Centre
OrgID: RIPE
Address: Singel 258
Address: 1016 AB
City: Amsterdam
StateProv:
PostalCode:
Country: NL

ReferralServer: whois://whois.ripe.net:43

NetRange: 212.0.0.0 - 212.255.255.255
CIDR: 212.0.0.0/8
NetName: RIPE-NCC-212
NetHandle: NET-212-0-0-0-1
Parent:
NetType: Allocated to RIPE NCC
NameServer: NS-PRI.RIPE.NET
NameServer: NS2.NIC.FR
NameServer: SUNIC.SUNET.SE
NameServer: AUTH03.NS.UU.NET
NameServer: SEC1.APNIC.NET
NameServer: SEC3.APNIC.NET
NameServer: TINNIE.ARIN.NET
Comment: These addresses have been further assigned to users in
Comment: the RIPE NCC region. Contact information can be found in
Comment: the RIPE database at http://www.ripe.net/whois
RegDate: 1997-11-14
Updated: 2004-03-16


supergamez.hu

domain: supergamez.hu
registrant: Private person
registrant: Kõvári Ádám
hun-id: 1000229059
admin-c: 2991012003
tech-c: 3000101067
zone-c: 3000101068
name server: ns1.mediacenter.hu[195.228.75.100]
registred: 1999-09-28 19:09:28
changed: 2004-08-17 13:27:18
registrar: 1980824002

admin-c: Kovári Ádám
address: Pf. 588.
address: H-6001 Kecskemét
address: HU
phone: +36 30 9583582
fax-no: +36 1 0000000
hun-id: 2991012003

tech-c: INTEGRITY Tech Contact
address: Victor Hugo u. 18-22.
address: 1132 Budapest
address: HU
phone: +36 1 4520155
fax-no: +36 1 4120483
e-mail: hu.tech-c@integrity.hu
hun-id: 3000101067

zone-c: INTEGRITY Tech Contact
address: Victor Hugo u. 18-22.
address: 1132 Budapest
address: HU
phone: +36 1 4520155
fax-no: +36 1 4120483
hun-id: 3000101068

registrar: INTEGRITY Informatics Ltd.
registrar: INTEGRITY Informatikai Kft. (Registrar)

address: Victor Hugo u. 18-22. A/012
address: H-1132 Budapest
address: HU
phone: +36 1 4520155
fax-no: +36 1 4520156
hun-id: 1980824002

DNS record of the domain supergamez.hu
According to the database of ISZT, the primary name server is: ns1.mediacenter.hu.
The data shown on this site is provied by the above mentioned name server. ISZT can not modify these data, we can show them here, only. Should you have any comment, contact the operator of this nameserver, please.

Server: ns1.mediacenter.hu
Address: 195.228.75.100#53

Name: supergamez.hu
Address: 195.70.36.46
supergamez.hu mail exchanger = 5 posta.mediacenter.hu.
supergamez.hu nameserver = ns1.mediacenter.hu.
supergamez.hu nameserver = ns2.mediacenter.hu.
supergamez.hu
origin = ns1.mediacenter.hu
mail addr = akovari.sg.hu
serial = 2004081715
refresh = 86400
retry = 14400
expire = 604800
minimum = 86400
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 29 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 03-Sep-2004 12:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Agima):
inetnum: 212.33.154.192 - 212.33.154.255
netname: OILCAMP
descr: OilCamp AS
country: NO
admin-c: TRE1-RIPE
tech-c: KHW106-RIPE
tech-c: AS26015-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA
notify: hostmaster@netpower.no
mnt-by: NETPOWER-MNT
changed: soma@netpower.no 20020702
source: RIPE

route: 212.33.128.0/19
descr: NetPower Int AS
origin: AS8896
notify: solem@netpower.no
mnt-by: NETPOWER-MNT
changed: solem@netpower.no 19990126
source: RIPE

person: Tom Rune Espedal
address: OilCamp AS
address: Forusbeen 35
address: P.O.Box 340
address: N-4003 Stavanger
address: Norway
phone: +47 51 76 35 50
fax-no: +47 51 76 56 01
e-mail: tom-rune.espedal@oilcamp.com
nic-hdl: TRE1-RIPE
mnt-by: NETPOWER-MNT
changed: soma@netpower.no 20020614
source: RIPE

person: Atle Soma
address: NetPower Int AS
address: Fabrikkveien 7
address: N-4033 Stavanger
address: Norway
phone: +47 51 95 80 07
fax-no: +47 51 95 80 01
e-mail: soma@netpower.no
nic-hdl: AS26015-RIPE
notify: soma@netpower.no
changed: solem@netpower.no 20010119
changed: soma@netpower.no 20010224
changed: soma@netpower.no 20010628
source: RIPE

person: Kjell Harald Walderhaug
address: Telenor Bedrift, Divisjon Tell-US
address: Pb 340
address: N-4002 STAVANGER
address: Norway
phone: +47 51 76 35 06
e-mail: kjell-harald.walderhaug@telenor.com
nic-hdl: KHW106-RIPE
mnt-by: TNXHM-MNT
changed: camlar@nextra.com 20010807
source: RIPE
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 30 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 03-Sep-2004 12:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Anonymous):
I object to being called stupid or dumb.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 31 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Tommy on 03-Sep-2004 12:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Rik Sweeney):
Rik all the links work fine, if you wanted any of the others you will need to use a program to accept edonkey hashes (files what point to ed2k://).
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 32 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 03-Sep-2004 12:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Johan Rönnblom):
If the driver is released, and still has problems, yea, i would consede that it is indeed unrecoverable, or if the driver performs awfully.

But i'm waiting till the driver is released in a final version (AOS4 release)
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 33 of 160ANN.lu
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Pirate links
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 34 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 03-Sep-2004 12:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Amon_Re):
Fair enough, hopefully that won't take too long now.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 35 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 03-Sep-2004 13:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Johan Rönnblom):
You're in a hurry to prove me wrong? :P
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 36 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Burström on 03-Sep-2004 13:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Johan Rönnblom):
>Fair enough, hopefully that won't take too long now.

But until that happens you will happily continue claming things you have
no clue about? Been running the DMA enabled driver for my A1 for quite some
time and I havn't seen any of those issues you are mentioning. Have seen
issues and they are the reason for the driver not beeing public yet. However
I havn't seen any corrupted data. So until you actually know what you
are talking about you shouldn't claim anything.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 37 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 03-Sep-2004 13:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Stefan Burström):
Sound corruption ? O:-)
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 38 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 03-Sep-2004 13:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Stefan Burström):
It does not change the fact that something not acting as documented is a bug.
It is nice that Hyperion find workarounds for running OS4 with the Articia but claiming that there was no bug in the Articia (and accusing Bplan not knowing how their southbridge works) was a mistake leading to never ending flaming.
I'm pretty sure Stefan that if you would have been on Bplan/MorphOS side you would have been offended by Ben comments.
As did the original poster in this thread someone could compile a long of what has wrongfully been said to hurt MorphOS/Bplan/Genesi including several quotes from Fleecy, Ben (posting as him or anonymously !) and their supporters.

Anyaway, at the end both sides loose.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 39 of 160ANN.lu
Message removed by Christian Kemp for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Test
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 40 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 03-Sep-2004 14:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Christophe Decanini):
"It does not change the fact that something not acting as documented is a bug."

The bug can be either in the "something" or in the documents.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 41 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 03-Sep-2004 14:14 GMT
It's obvious that you even know what a "troll" is.

A troll is someone who deliberately says things that they don't necessarily even believe purely to cause disruption and incite people into argument.

Making comments about OS4 being late/not very good or about buggy Articia or the A1 being expensive is not trolling it's called speaking your mind. The fact that you actually seem to think that people can't possibly have negative thoughts about OS4 or the A1, or Hyperion, Or Eyetech, or AInc, but that they must just be saying these nasty things to troll and upset you says more about you than it does anyone from the "other side".

Simply because people on ANN don't follow the "Wow!!! fantastic!!!" regime every time OS4, Hyperion, Eyetech, or the A1 is mentioned doesn't mean they're trolls.

The A1 boards are way too expensive. The MicroA1 was promised as a competitively priced product which would be the modern equivalent of the A1200. It's not. It's actually appeared and is more expensive than the original A1-G3 SE (£360, while the MicroA1 is £349 + 100EUR for OS4). It will fail. Apart from a few hundred people who already owns an A1XE or SE, very few people will buy it.

I haven't been impressed by what I've seen of OS4 and what is there has taken way too long to appear for it to make any impact anyway. Most users have already long since switched to Mac, Windows or MorphOS, and the prices of the hardware required to run OS4 will do little to bring any of them back.

Amiga Inc have lied and deceived people throughout their ownership of the IP and have taken money from people, without delivering anything. They have been proven to be completely untrustworthy and incapable of managing a company.

The dubious nature of the KMOS OS4 (and later Amiga Inc) buyout is another thing that just doesn't ring true. Fleecy continued to answer OS4 questions on AW.net about OS4, and even stated that OS4 formed a very important part of AInc's future plans AFTER they had supposedly sold it.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 42 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Leif on 03-Sep-2004 14:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Lando):
But thats the thing, they never really sold it,
just switched CEO and changed the companys name,
so in that respect, Fleecy wasnt lying.. :)
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 43 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 03-Sep-2004 14:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Don Cox):
I had this discussion with an hardware engineer (without link to anything Amiga related). He told me that as long as a chip does not behave exactly as documented it is considered as a bug.

What is important is that Genesi could not sell the Pegasos with this problem. Same problem for Terrasoft or for the Barbie Motherboard. Hyperion choose to deal with it for OS4 and it can be certainly be fine even if high DMA use such as disk performance may never reach the Peg2 one(after all some amigans are still using old IDE / SCSI low performance bus / disks).

It is a shame that Hyperion said that there were no problem while it was said later by Hyperion that there were some with Linux.
I wonder what became the expectations to sell the A1 for the Linux market and lower prices ...
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 44 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 03-Sep-2004 14:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Stefan Burström):
Stefan Burström wrote:
> So until you actually know what you are talking about you shouldn't
> claim anything.

So you learned no lesson after claiming that the Pegasos must be
expensive, as it must use microvias, as it would be impossible to
manufacture otherwise.. even though you had never even seen a Pegasos,
and it turned out you were completely wrong?

Well, we'll see if you can get even with me when the driver is
released. Feel free to scorn me if that happens. Until then, I don't
see why you risk to make a fool of yourself again by making statements
like these.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 45 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Sep-2004 14:37 GMT
"Linux are due to a later discovered incompatibility of a uncommon ArticiaS feature and between the current LinuxPPC kernel and explained that this would thus be of no problem and actually this feature would offer a performance benefit to AmigaOS4 users."

You misunderstood:

ArticiaS _lacks_ reliable cache coherency. It's a BUG that could case evil behaviour.

It IS possible to maintain the cache cohenrecy manually on any computer. But no one does that, because _modern_ computer maintain the cache cohenrecy in hardware.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 46 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Jupp3 on 03-Sep-2004 14:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Christophe Decanini):
>(and accusing Bplan not knowing how their southbridge works)

Actually they told the public, that any problems with both Pegasos and A1 were coused by buggy northbridge and laughed at Genesi for "fixing southbridge bug with additional hardware"

In reality, however, Teron (A1) and Pegasos boards have _different_ southbridge chips. (as we all know, I hope?)
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 47 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Sep-2004 14:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Lando):
> Making comments about OS4 being late/not very good or about buggy Articia

IMO a troll takes no consideration for other people's opinions and states his opinions as facts and being indisputable without providing any proof. This is what is being done by many anti-AmigaOS4 trolls. Despite they aren't actually involved in the project they act as if they are.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 48 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 03-Sep-2004 14:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Don Cox):
Either way, it's a bug (speaking as someone who recently had to deal with a printer that would occasionally lie about which paper path it ran out of paper in, and on other occasions would produce an undocumented error code and lock up, I have a strong liking for hardware that performs according to the specifications :)
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 49 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Sep-2004 14:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Don Cox):
And if something is not documented, it does not mean it's a bug. World is full of hardware and software things which are not documented or which are documented badly.
The anti-AmigaOS4 troll : Comment 50 of 160ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Sep-2004 14:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Lando):
Speaking your mind is all fine and good, but is there any particular reason why it needs to be repeated in every single news item posted about OS4? Surely if someone was interested in the points you had to make, they would know them by now don't you think? Where did I state that I didn't know people could possibly be against anything that came from Hyperion, Eyetech or Amiga Inc. In fact, I myself don't agree with quite a lot that's been going on in those camps. Your automatic assumption that everyone that reads amigaworld.net is some sort of puppet on a string is incredibly insulting, but you don't seem to care.

Nobody is talking about any Wow, Fantastic kind of reaction, if you don't care, don't read the item and don't comment on it. Why is that so incredibly hard?

Your opinion that the Micro A1 will fail is all fine and dandy. You're entitled to it. Your also titled to your opinion that OS 4 is to little to late.

Your view on Amiga Inc. is quite clear, so is your view on KMOS. I don't neccesarily agree with you on every aspect of it, but why is it that people are not allowed to disagree with this stance, without being constantly pestered by the same opinion, by the same people, every single time a new post arrives that has some OS4 news.

To me, this is just pure trolling, and it's been going on for a very very long time now. So long in fact, that most people that have any interest in any of these platforms have moved on amigaworld.net to get away from it and be able to discuss their platform in peace. The same somewhat applies for the other side, otherwise we probably wouldn't have morphzone.
Anonymous, there are 160 items in your selection [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 150] [151 - 160]
Back to Top