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[Forum] Interesting thread on Amiga.orgANN.lu
Posted on 06-Sep-2004 14:12 GMT by Anonymous (Edited on 2004-09-06 19:48:28 GMT by Christian Kemp)382 comments
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Due to censorship by Argo the thread is locked but it is interesting to see a major Anti Amiga Inc webmaster turn in to a Genesi attacker and a certain website defender.

Amiga.org thread

Discuss

Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 1 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Mikey C on 06-Sep-2004 12:13 GMT
REMOVE PLEASE

Mikey C
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 2 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Dr Harold Shipman on 06-Sep-2004 12:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Mikey C):
Sorry but this is not AW so you can not censor me. if you want to discuss the topic then feel free, if not then drop the censorship act.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 3 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Tony on 06-Sep-2004 12:20 GMT
His Dr Jeckle & Hyde attitude has got me confused.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 4 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 06-Sep-2004 12:27 GMT
Thanks to Wayne for the entertainmentvalue for my mondaymorning.

Nothing to discuss there, that thread is a joke. Just like this thread here.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 5 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Sep-2004 12:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Mikey C):
The thread was locked before any member could discuss it. If you noticed he did have the last say then locked it (sounds familiar eh?), at least with Ann people can express their opinions without moderators playing the gag over mouth game.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 6 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 06-Sep-2004 12:46 GMT
Before this thread disappears: It is Wayne's site and he can say anything he wants there. I dont really understand Wayne's concerns, Amiga is doing better than ever, and flamefests are not new invention in this community.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 7 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 06-Sep-2004 12:47 GMT
such a short memory.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 8 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 06-Sep-2004 12:50 GMT
A quote from Wayne's post:

> BUT.... until the knife was thrust through the heart of the community by Bill
> Buck, we did NOT have the cutthroat hatred that currently exists between
> members of the community today.

Oh Jesus, I don't get it... how exactly did Bill Buck "thrust a knife trought the heart of the community"? By forming Genesi? By pushing ahead their product? By trying to be competitive?

Or is he perhaps referring to Genesi's perceived will to crash Ainc on the ground via legal proceedings? Even if that were what Wayne is referring to, how exactly is he responsible of the way certain people in this community reacted?

For Christ's sake, he seems to forget that these kind of splits were here before Genesi, b-plan, MOS and the Pegasos even existed. They were here for other reasons, nonetheless there were splits, and hatred, and flames, etc. Those things have always been here because the people who hate and flame have always been here. Give them a reason to, and they will flame and hate.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 9 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by David on 06-Sep-2004 12:53 GMT
Interesting how he claims Genesi screwed him. the real reason is that Mr Hunt was caught with his fingers in the till, which is instant dismissaland and he should be thankful that Genesi is not taking him to court and see him do porridge.

Genesi are not the bad guys where Mr Hunt is concerned.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 10 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 06-Sep-2004 13:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (David):
"Interesting how he claims Genesi screwed him."(...)"Genesi are not the bad guys where Mr Hunt is concerned." Well, he means Bill Buck. I dont know what happened between them but I think BB was the bad guy in this.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 11 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 06-Sep-2004 13:05 GMT
I admire Wayne's courage. I mean, not everyone would admit to such mistake and ask for forgiveness. Perhaps this means that he is ready to forgive me for questioning Bill Buck on the Amiga.org forums, maybe even ask me to forgive him for stopping me? Not that it matters nowadays, I'm just glad to see that Wayne finally got back on track and has put politics aside for the sake of the community. Welcome back, Wayne!
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 12 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Mikey C on 06-Sep-2004 13:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Dr Harold Shipman):
You are one sick puppy. Esp using a name like that too.

If the relatives of those who died saw you posting using that infamous name.

Sick, Sick, Sick!

Mikey C
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 13 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne (not Hunt) on 06-Sep-2004 13:09 GMT
That guy is really pathetic and especially blaming Bill Buck for everything. if BB did screw you then you must have deserved it and i hail Buck as a true Amiga hero.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 14 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Sep-2004 13:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Mikey C):
Why? Should i know that name?
*feels like he's missing something*
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 15 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Hector on 06-Sep-2004 13:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Mikey C):
Stop trolling.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 16 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 06-Sep-2004 13:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (hooligan/dcs):
IMHO it's just boring rant. No real point nor anything new info.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 17 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Sep-2004 13:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (JoannaK):
True, but the core point, that *we should stop bickering* is valid
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 18 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Mikey C on 06-Sep-2004 13:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Amon_Re):
Harold Shipman a Doctor in North England who murdered over 200 old age pensioner s at least

Mikey C
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 19 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 06-Sep-2004 13:21 GMT
what people do when there is no product or service to really talk about...

hhahaha...
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 20 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Ronald St-Maurice on 06-Sep-2004 13:24 GMT
I'd like to hear more about the "coup" against amiga.org
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 21 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Sep-2004 13:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (3seas):
Eh? Please elaborate
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 22 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Sep-2004 13:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Mikey C):
I see, thx for the info
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 23 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 06-Sep-2004 13:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Mikey C):
Incredible. About the same amount of people started getting pension while waiting for the bright Amiga future :)
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 24 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Sep-2004 13:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (hooligan/dcs):
You're *that* old? o.O
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 25 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 06-Sep-2004 13:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Ronald St-Maurice):
I'd like to hear more about the "coup" against amiga.org

There's at least one person in here who should be able to enlighten you, although I suspect his response might be something along the lines of "Coup? What coup?", so you might have to persevere a little...

Gregg
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 26 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by ikir on 06-Sep-2004 13:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Fabio Alemagna):
" Oh Jesus, I don't get it... how exactly did Bill Buck "thrust a knife trought the heart of the community"? By forming Genesi? By pushing ahead their product? By trying to be competitive? "

By acting like a 5 years old children time ago :-) Not in these days :-)
BB fault, not Genesi one.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 27 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Jessie on 06-Sep-2004 13:53 GMT
Waynes little rant is hardly worth discussing. the guy is a liar and a theif who was caught fiddling some money from Genesi,which is shocking and i find it quite stupid when he calls Amiga Inc and Genesi while himself has stolen money from people.

Amiga Inc = Theives
Genesi = Theives
Wayne Hunt = hypocrite Theif
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 28 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 06-Sep-2004 14:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Jessie):
It helps if you learn to spell the word before you start accusing people of theft...


- CISC
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 29 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Karl on 06-Sep-2004 14:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
We know what Jess means, so STFU.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 30 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 06-Sep-2004 14:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Karl):
Do we?

I can guess what he means with regards to AInc and Genesi (but he's hardly very specific, is he?), but as to the accusation towards Wayne I'm totally lost...


- CISC
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 31 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Alan Taylor on 06-Sep-2004 14:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
Not everyone one can write perfect English (especially people from non native English speaking countries), i find your comment offensive and very disrespectful.

Regarding Wayne. People have been saying for a while now that he was caught stealing from Genesi, but you dare ask him and prepare to be banned like i have.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 32 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 06-Sep-2004 14:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Alan Taylor):
Please stop this shit.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 33 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 06-Sep-2004 14:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Alan Taylor):
>Not everyone one can write perfect English (especially people from non native
>English speaking countries), i find your comment offensive and very
>disrespectful.

I really don't think he meant to be disrespectful, just that it's not that obvious to know what he means by "hypocrite theif" and I happen to agree with Sigbjörn for once. Perhaps it would have helped if he was a bit more specific, words are easier to interpret if they are put into a context, you know.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 34 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by minator on 06-Sep-2004 14:34 GMT
Wayne made some good points but it's a somewhat dissapointing rant given the usual quality of his posts.

The problems in this community go way back much further than Genesi, they stem from when PowerPCs originally appeared on the Amiga scene where several companies were pushing products - people took sides and the splits began, you need only read the thread following the WarpUP announcement (27th September 1997) to see an example of it. Indeed it probably goes back further still.

As for Amiga inc. they shot themselves in the foot, they didn't need any help there.

Wayne may have got it in the arse from BB - he's not alone in that respect I can assure you - I'm not saying they are blameless but to say the problems are the result of BB alone is just plain silly. BB did than Wolf Dietrich and Steffen Haeuser were doing back in 1997, more aggressively yes, but still much the same - and it's not as if the debate today has ever been one sided.

Trolls will still do thier trolling no matter what, encouraged or not this problem is the result of a small number of idiots on *both* sides, I don't consider one side to be better than the other in this respect.

There's a lot of similaritys with BeOS and the Amiga, when Be went down and multiple solutions started appearing (Zeta, Haiku etc.) *exactly* the same thing started happening. It didn't need anyone to come in and start it.

If Genesi was a different company run by different people I doubt the outcome would have been much different.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 35 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 06-Sep-2004 14:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Alan Taylor):
Regarding Wayne. People have been saying for a while now that he was caught stealing from Genesi, but you dare ask him and prepare to be banned like i have.

So, Alan - when did you stop beating your wife?

Gregg
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 36 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Senex on 06-Sep-2004 14:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (minator):
Agreed. While bbrv without any doubt did add their part to the split as well, I think Wayne's perception of this effect is just caused by the synchrony of bbrv popping up again and some time later bplan's products finally getting into our hands.

Without Genesi, there still would have been those who had bought the Pegasos and those who had preferred the A1 - and still some of them would have fought each other, just as they did before with other products, be it within the Amiga market, between Amiga and Atari or whatever. It's human and doesn't require a Bill Buck.

But regarding the need to overcome the split and regarding the childishness of some of the troll fights, Wayne is absolutely right IMHO. If I'm the user of one of the amigan operating systems, I do clearly prefer the other to use at least one of the other amigan operating systems instead of a really alien one. After all, there are mainly the very same features both we like by the Amiga way of computing, not to mention the common roots.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 37 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Sep-2004 15:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Ronald St-Maurice):
> I'd like to hear more about the "coup" against amiga.org

Mickey_C announced that he would leave Amiga.org for AmigaWorld.net and lots of people followed him. That's about it. People are generally intelligent enough to make up their own minds which website they prefer to visit.
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 38 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 06-Sep-2004 15:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Senex):
Well, the main cause for the split isn't about wether the alternatives are similar or not. You see, despite the similarities and common roots, we're still talking about systems that compete against each other rather than cooperate with a common goal. I mean, soccer supporters rarely beat up each other because they cheer on different players in the team. It's OK to cheer on different players for as long as they are on the same team. So, if the different Amiga alternatives would just play on the same team...
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 39 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas Würgler/Pagan on 06-Sep-2004 15:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Senex):
Unfortunately not all look at it the way you do :-(
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 40 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 06-Sep-2004 15:22 GMT
A well written statement from the webmaster, I'm about to remove my ann.lu link as I think it can be damaging from my web page, and replacing it whit AmigWorld.net
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 41 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Sep-2004 15:39 GMT
From: "Paul Adams" <pauladams@genesi-usa.com>
Date: January 3, 2004 4:11:04 AM CET
To: "Wayne Hunt (E-mail)" <wayne@genesi-usa.com>
Cc: "Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck (E-mail)" <bbrv@genesi.lu>
Subject: Official Corporate Position
Reply-To: <pauladams@genesi-usa.com>

Wayne

From all reports, you have completed your responsibilities to transfer all
required access data relative to the Genesi web sites. Now that we have
complete access to the site, we will evaluate what you have actually
delivered to Genesi and determine within the next two weeks whether or not
we believe you are owed any further consulting fees.

As for expenses, please scan and email to me the phone bill you mentioned in
your email of this afternoon. Also, regarding your New Orleans trip, please
send me an email breaking down those expenses, with scanned receipts as
well. Upon receipt of the breakdown, I will advise you on the timing of any
reimbursement.

Effective immediately, you are no longer to use the email address
wayne@genesi-usa.com for any purposes. That email address will be shut down
and forwarded to me. After this email, I will contact you on your amiga.org
address.

Now that all is safely within our corporate control, I will respond to your
actions over the past several days.

You were brought on as a consultant on April 9, 2003 with the task of
managing the Genesi web development effort and with the goal of having a
completed web site with a fully functional on line store completed by July
15, 2003. At your consulting rate of $5,000 a month, the budget for the
first phase of the web site was $15,000, not including the consulting fees
to the people you were required to manage.

You did not deliver the functional site and additional expenses were
incurred to conduct a web developers meeting in Sacramento to bring the
effort to focus. Each month, the site was delayed. Faced with a deadline
of October 15, 2003, you scrambled, coded with bubble gum and duct tape and
put a marginally functional site on line. Over the next two months, you
were requested to bring to the site the functionality you were being paid to
deliver. You never did.

As of today, you have been paid a total of $38,000 in consulting fees, which
represents full payment through December 1, 2003. You were paid more in
consulting fees than any other Genesi consultant and delivered the least.
As you may recall, you received your first check for a full month of
consulting 9 days after being brought on board. I am attaching a full
breakdown of payments that have been made to date. Even assuming you have
earned any consulting fees through December 30th, the most you would be owed
is $5,064.52.

Since you seem to think it may be somehow clever to disparage Genesi in your
online postings, please be advised that we are prepared to respond. Genesi
is a start up company, so delays in payment of obligations are not that
unusual. Should we be required to respond to any on line postings, we will
show that, for a start up, we exhibited a tremendous degree of tolerance for
your incompetence before terminating your consulting services.

You were paid over twice the budgeted amount for your services yet never
delivered the product you were contracted to deliver. In our dealings, you
demonstrated a fundamental inability to manage either people or products.
You also do not appear capable of even managing yourself.

Your action in changing the administrative password to deny access to the
site was appallingly unprofessional. Attempting to hold a web site hostage
while demanding twice what you may reasonably be owed is despicable. Your
mingling of corporate and personal data at zone edit jeopardized corporate
data and made the access transfer process much more difficult than it should
have been.

You have demonstrated without a doubt that you are not fit for any position
of trust. Your posting of inappropriate images on the web site demonstrated
your complete lack of judgment and fundamental unfitness for any position of
responsibility or discretion. Finally, your false statements to me that you
were told to post those pictures “ASAP” establishes your utter lack of
integrity.

You never seemed to understand that consulting fees are earned by
performance, not simply because you survived another 30 days. Considering
your poor performance and failure to deliver the contracted product, your
demand for anything demonstrates an incredible level of arrogance.

This email will be placed in the corporate records as the official position
of Genesi regarding your performance as a consultant. Should you desire to
provide a response to Genesi’s official position, I will include that in the
corporate records along with this document. Having said that, I have no
intention of engaging in a debate with you over your performance.

We have no intention of making any aspect of this position public. If,
however, you decide to commence an on line discussion of Genesi, I can
assure you that we will identify you as a disgruntled former consultant and
post a response containing the points outlined above to place your comments
into perspective.

Paul Adams
Chief Operating Officer
Genesi - USA




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.556 / Virus Database: 348 - Release Date: 12/26/2003

[Attached] http://www.genesi.lu/files/Wayne%20Consulting%20Pay.xls
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 42 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 06-Sep-2004 15:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Kjetil):
Great, it was always a confusing with amigaworld.org vs. amigaworld.net, now I will at least get a link pointing me in the right direction :)
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 43 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 06-Sep-2004 15:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Alan Taylor):
"Not everyone one can write perfect English (especially people from non native English speaking countries), i find your comment offensive and very disrespectful."

It was meant to be disrespectful .. not because he didn't know how to spell the word (I'm quite aware that people misspell things from time to time, and not necessarily for the lack of knowledge, I even do it myself), but because he was flinging unsubstantiated accusations for the sole purpose of discrediting Wayne...


- CISC
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 44 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 06-Sep-2004 15:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Anonymous):
Rich.. phat.. with link to spreadsheet and all..

Thanks for stirring this up further :)
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 45 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Sep-2004 15:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Anonymous):
Where are the headers & why are you anonymous? I nearly fell for it too, it's well written enough to pose as genuine, but alas, no bananas
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 46 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Sep-2004 15:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Amon_Re):
Ahem... i take that back, the link to the xls file works... So it's more likely to be authentic (the mail that is, i'm not even going to discuss the contents)

Shoddy security there, no authentication required or anything, oh, btw, doesn't such info classify as company property?
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 47 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 06-Sep-2004 15:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Amon_Re):
The link to the excel sheet works, and it is located on the genesi.lu site - go figure :)
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 48 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Sep-2004 15:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (ikir):
Yes, it's BB's fault alone, NOT the shitheads he had to take unlimited shit from, and certainly NOT Bill McEwen, Fleecy Moss, Ben Hermans, Alan Redhouse that has spent the last 4 years spreading shitloads of lies about anything related to the Pegasos, MorphOS, Genesi and any person involved with that, no, it's the evil Bill Buck that ALONE thrusted a knife into the heart of the Amiga community! Well Wayne, very constructive thinking there, great job of unifying the community, and yes, you are sooo totally forgiven for everything bad you might have said about anyone other than this evil Bill Buck. Come to think of it, Bill Buck is probably connected to the death of Amiga in the first place, it was probably him who killed Commodore from the beginning. Well, there is a great things that we have these other people, these real ANGELS that are so white and pure in their deeds. Poor them, those who had to take shit from BB as a response to the shit they jointly put over him. Poor them.

FOR FUCK SAKE WAYNE!!!
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 49 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Sep-2004 15:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
Yea i know, makes you kinda wonder what else is in that /files/ directory... *Evil face*

Also, the genesi website uses php.... one could try & exploit it... Hope they secured their scripts
Interesting thread on Amiga.org : Comment 50 of 382ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 06-Sep-2004 15:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Anonymous):
Bill Buck *IS* Medhi Ali! *Evil*
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