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[Forum] Bootup timeANN.lu
Posted on 14-Sep-2004 03:51 GMT by Anonymous129 comments
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Can anyone tell me how long it takes to boot a default install of AmigaOS4 on a Amigaone G3 or G4 system?
Bootup time : Comment 1 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 14-Sep-2004 02:40 GMT
African or European distribution?
Bootup time : Comment 2 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Argo on 14-Sep-2004 03:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Darrin):
um, I don't know. AHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Bootup time : Comment 3 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Bill on 14-Sep-2004 04:15 GMT
you did not ask for it but my CSPPC takes little less then a minute, good chunk of the time is in the networking, getting a DHCP lease.
Bootup time : Comment 4 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 14-Sep-2004 04:46 GMT
IIRC, after default installation installation cold boot times are around one minute.

And after some tweaking from default setup, pre beta manages 32..36 seconds in cold boot and about 12 seconds in warm boot.

More details @ amigaworld.net forums.
Bootup time : Comment 5 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 14-Sep-2004 04:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (priest):
"installation installation"

Yes, it's echo.
Bootup time : Comment 6 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Sep-2004 04:49 GMT
It takes more than twice the time of booting WinXP on my x86 box with
Athlon 2800+, Nforce2 chipset with 512MB dual channel DDR 333 and
striped serial ATA RAID. Really it does!
Bootup time : Comment 7 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 14-Sep-2004 05:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
Well... the XP runs 100% natively, uses DMA and 3x faster CPU.
Bootup time : Comment 8 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Sep-2004 05:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (priest):
Yep!
Bootup time : Comment 9 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Mendoza on 14-Sep-2004 05:48 GMT
Cold boot might take some time, but one minute? I have to check on that, I would imageine half the time maybe. Warm boot is a matter of seconds, don't have exact data there either.

Ah and as for including DHCP lease time in booting that's a bit irrelevant imho since dhcp leasing can take a random amount of time depending on network setup, moon phase and similar, try adding a run >nil: in front of the C:AddNetInterface line.
Bootup time : Comment 10 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by l'Ours on 14-Sep-2004 05:53 GMT
Less than to finish your orange juice..
Bootup time : Comment 11 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 14-Sep-2004 06:12 GMT
Latest beta (and therefore presumably the update when you guys get it) is way faster than the pre-release, for me.
Bootup time : Comment 12 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by i'm not here on 14-Sep-2004 06:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
but windows is so crap...
i wouldn't want it even if the boot time would be one micro sec.
using it on daily basis will bring you headaches and stranges diseases like high stress peaks and stomach disorder... that pain make you wanting to crucifiate your computer and burn it's poor remains everyday... or it's could just transform you into one of thoses mcse certified guys.. terrible.
Bootup time : Comment 13 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Marcin 'Morgoth' Kurek on 14-Sep-2004 07:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (priest):
Compare WindowsXP to any AmigaOS-Like system ? Mega ROTFL ... realy :)
Bootup time : Comment 14 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 14-Sep-2004 07:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Nicolas Mendoza):
Ah and as for including DHCP lease time in booting that's a bit irrelevant imho since dhcp leasing can take a random amount of time depending on network setup, moon phase and similar, try adding a run >nil: in front of the C:AddNetInterface line.

Strangely, failing to background the DHCP client was an annoyance in Win'9x, as well. At least there's an easy fix here. ;)

[I can see how it's a bit of a UI problem, where, in this prerelease era, you want the user to notice if something's not happening properly... How about trading that for a redirect to a logfile and a network status/monitoring docky enabled by default (rather, by running whatever prefs panel is involved, and/or the network portion of the setup util) in the final?]
Bootup time : Comment 15 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 14-Sep-2004 08:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Marcin 'Morgoth' Kurek):
I did not start it.

But anyway. On operating system basic behaviour, AOS delivers superb performance when comparing to childish Windows attempts.

(the huge problem is that some people just demand "basic behaviour" that does not exist at all on AOS)
Bootup time : Comment 16 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Mendoza on 14-Sep-2004 08:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Joe "Floid" Kanowitz):
Hmm, AFAIK Roadshow open an own window on error anyway.
Bootup time : Comment 17 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by ikir on 14-Sep-2004 08:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
Twice? You're drunk :-)

My WinXp take an age to load on a 2P4 2400 and SATA HD.

My A1 loads in about 30-35 secs. Soft reset takes only about 10 seconds.
Bootup time : Comment 18 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Ted - The Generic Guy on 14-Sep-2004 09:36 GMT
I have never timed mine, but having sat in front of a lot of other computers I would say "fast enough".
Bootup time : Comment 19 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 14-Sep-2004 09:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (ikir):
Actually, I believe that the dual channel RAM of the Nforce2 and the striped SATA RAID may make a noticable difference! I doubt it will beat MorphOS in booting time though (at least after the HW has been initialized). It would be interesting to compare these three ...
Bootup time : Comment 20 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Elwood on 14-Sep-2004 10:50 GMT
Check here.
Bootup time : Comment 21 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 14-Sep-2004 11:01 GMT
How long are MOS 1.4.x cold/warm boot times?


(My Duron800/384M133MhzSDRAM/5400rpm20GBHDD/Win2000/NoDMA boots 10 minutes (netscape preloaded, norton AV, kerio firewall, etc..))
Bootup time : Comment 22 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 14-Sep-2004 11:20 GMT
If you want a fast boot time, you have to put all of the OS in ROM. Any computer that loads its OS from a disk will be much slower than one that runs it in ROM.

Of course the obvious problem is that 30 or 40 Megs of ROM is expensive.

A perfect computer would boot in less than half a second (as Z80 computers did) and could be switched off at any moment (almost true of Amigas). It would be like a radio.
Bootup time : Comment 23 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Sep-2004 11:27 GMT
I saw OS4 beta (not pre-release) in Assembly'04 running on AmigaOne XEG4. OS4 booted fast. Ofcourse coldreset takes longer than warmreset, but it did not take much time either. I'm not sure how long it took to make cold reset, but my A1200T+OS3.9+060 is slower to boot that's sure :)

It took only couple of seconds to make warmreset, and after that reset OS4 was already online and connected to partynetwork.

Warmreset was wery fast indeed.
Bootup time : Comment 24 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 14-Sep-2004 11:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (priest):
Even my A1200T takes only about a 1.5 minutes to boot, and it runs lot's of stuff in the boot (eg. TCP/IP stack, MySQL-server etc.) And I have 68060 50Mhz, just think AmigaOS on G4 or G3 which are much faster :)
Bootup time : Comment 25 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 14-Sep-2004 11:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Don Cox):
industrial A1 sprang to my mind ... CF (compact flash) 'hard drive' ...
Bootup time : Comment 26 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 14-Sep-2004 11:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (takemehomegrandma):
> I doubt it will beat MorphOS in booting time though (at least after the HW has
> been initialized). It would be interesting to compare these three ...

MOS has a lot less to load at boot time, it would be a shame if it had to boot slower than WinXP, but booting faster is no award winning feature either :-)
Bootup time : Comment 27 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by ujb on 14-Sep-2004 12:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (priest):
Peg1 MOS 1.4.2

After HW init it takes about 5 seconds to boot up my maschine, HW inittakes some time, about 15 seconds. All in all a fair 20 seconds after power on the maschine is ready. It's pretty fast!
The only maschine I know which is quite as fast is my Sony Vaio (PIII 650 Mhz) laptop when booting QNX (HW init takes shorter on that maschine, QNX boot time is a bit more than MOS boot time). But don't ask for speed when it boots up WinMe... (well, it rarely does)
From the amigaworld thread it seems that the A1 goes pretty fast through the HW init and boot times are not much more than MOS boot times. I guess both are quite attractive in this regard.
Bootup time : Comment 28 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 14-Sep-2004 12:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (ujb):
Thanks.

"After HW init it takes about 5 seconds to boot up my maschine, HW inittakes some time, about 15 seconds. All in all a fair 20 seconds after power on the maschine is ready."

5 seconds for desktop OS to load is not bad. ;)

( for people who love to tweak *OS it's nice that it boots fast after changes / crash ... everybody need to boot their computer sometimes, in a hurry )
Bootup time : Comment 29 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 14-Sep-2004 12:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (priest):
This "20 seconds after power on the maschine is ready" act also as a good reality check. People know that there's some room to improve.


How long is the warm boot time?

Does recoverable RAM disks work?
How fast does MOS/AOS4 boot from it?
Bootup time : Comment 30 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Johan on 14-Sep-2004 12:16 GMT
My XP2100+ boots win xp in probably 20 seconds and freebsd in the same amount of time. There I'm during the days the dell machines boots win xp in like 15seconds including login+gui. However freebsd takes 4 seconds to turn of but win xp takes like 1minute+ here, don't know why, retarded.

Plus my gigabyte retard-motherboard-raid-controller takes forever to initialise.
Bootup time : Comment 31 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 14-Sep-2004 12:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (priest):
"Does recoverable RAM disks work?"

No it doesn't. MorphOS supports it but not the hardware. When you reboot the ram is reseted :(
I guess that it is exactly the same with OS4/AmigaOne.
Bootup time : Comment 32 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 14-Sep-2004 12:50 GMT
will you people grow up about the compact flash already....you've been splained many times...compact flash is not faster than a hard drive.

seek times are faster...obviously compact flash is solid state and doesn't have to deal with the seek time of the rotational spinning hard drives...

but grow up already....seek time is not everything, in fact, finding the seek at the very beginning of the sequential read is not a whole helluva lotta time when booting an OS.

Look at it this way..I bought myself a nice digital camera from sony...it has memory stick and a newer, slightly faster memory stick pro... it has a movie recording option...only available if you upgrade to memory stick pro...why? because standard memory stick just isn't fast enough to handle recording video with sound.

Its just another way of sayign what every single spec says, if you would get off your lazy arse and read the spec's...which is that compact flash is just PLAIN NOT FAST.....neither is memory stick's...or similar media.

Like everything else, they get faster every year....but your plain vanilla hard drive is much faster on a sustained read than these compact flash devices.

The constant blah blah blah about putting things in ROM is so ancient, you need to look up some specs...its only faster if the ROM is really faster...some ROM's are dang slow.

we've had this conversation dozen's of times...amigan's....sigh
Bootup time : Comment 33 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 14-Sep-2004 12:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (priest):
Pegasos I G3 - 20 seconds from cold (including the OF POST)

Pegasos II G4 - 10 seconds from cold (including OF POST).

Of course I set auto-boot-timeout to 0 to get that result :)

Neko
Bootup time : Comment 34 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Rafo on 14-Sep-2004 12:53 GMT
Maybe we should ask another question that comes with it : How often do
you have to reboot ?
Bootup time : Comment 35 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 14-Sep-2004 12:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (MarkTime):
some spec's
Sandisk 'Extreme' edition 2gb transfer speed (card to computer)

11.232MB/sec

Sandisk Standard 512mb card

2.099MB/sec

Your standard hard drive sustained transfer speeds:

20MB/sec on up....some of the RAID set ups mentioned before are much faster


I've gone over this topic soooooo many times, but amigans live in la-la land
so they want to believe compact flash is faster....so they believe it.

it's like a religion with you people anyway.
Bootup time : Comment 36 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by DoctorMorbius_FP on 14-Sep-2004 13:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Christophe Decanini):
I'm sorry, you are wrong. I have four recoverable RAM disks on my PegasosII G4: two harddisk-like (size: 32 Mbytes) and two floppy-like (size: 880 Kbytes). All of them are driven by vdisk.device by Etienne Vogt, and all of them survive the resets.
Bootup time : Comment 37 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 14-Sep-2004 13:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (MarkTime):
What about seek times? If were taking about boot times then we need to consider spin up times too.

Maybe modern hard drives have little seek time or spin up times these days though, I don't know. :)


If you're still using a computer from the 80's and deep down hold hope that it will one day take over MS Windows, then I'd say your in La La land... that's the way we like it though.
Bootup time : Comment 38 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 14-Sep-2004 13:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (DoctorMorbius_FP):
So we can assume that the Marvell does not reinitialize the RAM after a reset :)
With my Peg1 I have noticed that when installing more RAM the OF would spend more time. Glad to hear that the Peg2 does not go through this destructive step.
Bootup time : Comment 39 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by DoctorMorbius_FP on 14-Sep-2004 14:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Christophe Decanini):
Unfortunately there are a few problems with vdisk.device, which is not optimized for a PPC environment. I've not been able to force it to use long filenames allowed by MorphOS fastfilesystem (like those we can use in RAM:), and there are bad interactions with the system (the Cybergraphx data management, I presume) so its access time is large. Actually vdisk.device recoverable RAM disks are typically slower than RAM: and hard disks, and when they contains many files, say hundreds or more, their access times becomes even slower.
Bootup time : Comment 40 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Jupp3 on 14-Sep-2004 14:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Neko):
I think that GFX card might affect boot times aswell (At least it does on Pegasos, wouldn't be surprised if there are differences with A1 boards aswell)

I think Pegasos boots a bit faster with Voodoo than with Radeon, for example.
Bootup time : Comment 41 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Sep-2004 14:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Agima):
> What about seek times? If were taking about boot times then we need to consider
> spin up times too.

Have you used a personal computer in the last decade or so? Even an Amiga?
Most HDDs have spun up before hardware diagnostics/initialisation/POST/whatever are finished. As it happens, that slow process is run by instructions in a ROM.

Seek times are of course slower in an electro-mechanical device than in any static storage medium (what seek times?), but that doesn't change the fact that hard drives are simply faster on the whole.

> La La land... that's the way we like it though.

This not PostdancingbananasforwhoeverhappenstoownthattrademarkthisweekWorld.net.
Bootup time : Comment 42 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 14-Sep-2004 15:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Don Cox):
ROMs are actually tremendously slow, compared to hard disks. If you want to have a fast boot (and you completely control the boot process), you might want to reserve some linear space at the start of the disk, and load that into a ram area at the very start (and then use that ram area as you would the ROM Do is asking for).And of course, 64MB of ROM aren't actually all that expensive --- CF cards or USB sticks with that amount can be had for low double-digit dollars (and all CF cards have an IDE personality included, so booting from them is easy). But they are *way* slower than a hard disk.
Bootup time : Comment 43 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 14-Sep-2004 15:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (DoctorMorbius_FP):
Cool! ^^
Bootup time : Comment 44 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 14-Sep-2004 15:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Bernie Meyer):
Also I remember reading that CF cards had a limitation for the number of times you can write to them (something like 600000 times). The card reliability would not be guaranted after that many writes.
Is it still valid with recent CF cards ?
Bootup time : Comment 45 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 14-Sep-2004 15:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (DoctorMorbius_FP):
What about the regular rad device ?
Wasn't there something called superRAD too ?
A few years ago I had set up my workbench to war boot from rad.
I will always remember the face of my friends (using PCs) when I pulled the HD out of the case and did a warm reset.
For some applications such as kiosks it would be nice to be able to copy OS on coldboot from the network to the rad and boot from there completely diskless.
Bootup time : Comment 46 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 14-Sep-2004 15:45 GMT
On Peg1, the ramdebuglog is kept between reboots, so obviously the
memory is not cleared.

I guess it would be nice with some advanced setting so that the system
wouldn't wait for all devices before booting. Of course this would
cause endless trouble for people who don't know what they are doing,
though. :-)
Bootup time : Comment 47 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 14-Sep-2004 16:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Anonymous):
>>Have you used a personal computer in the last decade or so? Even an Amiga?
>>Most HDDs have spun up before hardware >>diagnostics/initialisation/POST/whatever are finished. As it happens, that >>slow process is run by instructions in a ROM.

Computer? Yes. Harddrive? No. Solid state all the way...

http://www.bitmicro.com/products_edisk_35_ide.php


>>Seek times are of course slower in an electro-mechanical device than in any >>static storage medium (what seek times?), but that doesn't change the fact >>that hard drives are simply faster on the whole.

Solid state:

1,500 to 25,000 IOPS I/O Rate *
100 to 39 usec Access Time *
14 to 110 MB/sec Sustained R/W Rate *
16.7 to 133 MB/sec Burst R/W Rate *

>>This not >>PostdancingbananasforwhoeverhappenstoownthattrademarkthisweekWorld.net.

Real mature....
Bootup time : Comment 48 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 14-Sep-2004 17:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Bernie Meyer):
"CF cards or USB sticks with that amount can be had for low double-digit dollars (and all CF cards have an IDE personality included, so booting from them is easy). But they are *way* slower than a hard disk."

They are going through USB. I was thinking of ROM on the motherboard, as used by a BIOS, connected directly as memory. Or maybe a stick of ROM in one of the RAM slots, designed to look like RAM to the CPU.

A card that pretends to be a USB device pretending to be an IDE drive is certainly going to be slow.
Bootup time : Comment 49 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by DoctorMorbius_FP on 14-Sep-2004 17:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Christophe Decanini):
RAD: is definitively better than vdisk.device in terms of speed and compatibility, but it allocates memory statically (32 Mbytes of RAM used for a RAD: cannot be used anymore by the system). Instead the vdisk.device allocates memory dynamically and can free it automatically when you delete the files contained in the recoverable RAM disk. This more complex management explains in part why it is slower.
Bootup time : Comment 50 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 14-Sep-2004 17:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Agima):
"Computer? Yes. Harddrive? No. Solid state all the way..."

But it's pretending to be a disk, so you have all the overhead of file systems and loading into RAM.

I'm talking about having the OS already in memory (ROM) when you switch on. No copying from one place to another. Think how a BIOS or Kickstart ROM work.

IIRC the Kickstart ROM(s) were 1 Meg, ten years ago. 30 Meg should be possible now. By using a Flash ROM, it could be updated once a year by the user, from a download. (As can be done with a BIOS now.)
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