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[Forum] Bootup timeANN.lu
Posted on 14-Sep-2004 03:51 GMT by Anonymous129 comments
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Can anyone tell me how long it takes to boot a default install of AmigaOS4 on a Amigaone G3 or G4 system?
Bootup time : Comment 101 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 15-Sep-2004 13:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Christophe Decanini):
>>By any chance do you have some information supporting this ?
>>I always thought ROM speed was always much slower than RAM speed.


I could look for soem specs online, a quick look brought this up for "EEPROM" (which is slower than a normal ROM that can't be erased and rewritten)


"EEPROM (electrically erasable programmable read-only memory).

Data in flash memory survive from power failure.
Reading data from flash memory takes about 10 nano-secs (roughly as fast as from main memory), and writing data into flash memory is more complicated: write-once takes about 4-10 microsecs.
To overwrite what has been written, one has to first erase the entire bank of the memory. "


http://www.cs.sfu.ca/CC/354/zaiane/material/notes/Chapter10/node2.html
Bootup time : Comment 102 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 15-Sep-2004 13:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Agima):
This document also state that ROM/Flash per byte are less expensive than RAM ???
Bootup time : Comment 103 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 15-Sep-2004 13:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (Christophe Decanini):
>>This document also state that ROM/Flash per byte are less expensive than RAM ???


ROM is typically the cheapest type of memory. Again, think about the video game industry. 32 megabyte N64 carts were selling for $50 in 1997. That includes the plastic casing around the game, the cost of the Game itself, packaging etc. The 32 meg ROM itself probably was a few dollars if that much.

Now ask, How much were we paying for 32 meg SIMMs back then?

Here's a quote I found on the net:

"When I originally published this page back in the Spring of 1997 8MB SIMMs of the spec discussed were going for about $50-60 each."

--- http://members.aol.com/mbs1058/cmemory.html
Bootup time : Comment 104 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 15-Sep-2004 14:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Agima):
Your examples are from a long time ago (like mine were for speed).
Is it easy to get 256 MB ROM today and is it less expensive than RAM ?
Bootup time : Comment 105 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 15-Sep-2004 15:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Christophe Decanini):
>>Is it easy to get 256 MB ROM today and is it less expensive than RAM ?

Everything has ROM chips in it.

All the Plam Pilots and hand held devices.

Game Boy Advance carts use ROM chips.

DVD players, your cable box, PlayStation2, GameCube, etc all have the entire 'OS' and programs in ROM chips.
Bootup time : Comment 106 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Dan on 15-Sep-2004 19:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (itix):
Posted by itix (130.234.189.82) on 15-Sep-2004 09:03:24
My C64 is ready in 1 second. Winner?
One of them anyway, 1 second or less is fast enough. More than 3s is irritatingly slow.
C64 and other 8/16-bits such as calculators is coldbooting but the pdas( and iBook) comes up from a sleep mode.
Bootup time : Comment 107 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Zylesea on 15-Sep-2004 19:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (Agima):
Those mentioned devices have *small* roms inside. Welcome in 2004!
Production changed a lot during the last years.
Good example from is to get from cyress semiconductors: Their wide
spread usb device controler EZ-USB & EZ-USB FX (nice thingies they
are..) are extended in a way to use ram in favour of (ep)roms out of
two reasons: price & speed (a third reason if compared to rom: easy to
upgrade). Now do the math... Those little roms are oftenly within some
8051 devices where only a small ammount of memory is required and
there is no 2nd device available from which the memory content can be
loaded.

Fastest boot would be
a) a speudo boot (i.e. buffer the mem and send all processors to idle
mode - disadvantge costs energy - it's like the mentioned ibook does)
b) Save a defined maschine state on disk and stream that in when
powered on (no time for seeking single files or executing routines),
the way windoze does in when suspend to disk (somehow MS still does it
not what i call
perfect)
Bootup time : Comment 108 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Cluke on 16-Sep-2004 09:12 GMT
Anyone comparing boot times unfavourably with XP should be aware that Windows 'cheats' to get your desktop up and visible as quickly as it can. It's actually still booting. The HD is still grinding away, and if you try to select anything from the start menu it grinds worse (in fact this is sometimes impossible as the desktop updates itself a few times and knocks you out of any menus you are on).
Bootup time : Comment 109 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 16-Sep-2004 09:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (Zylesea):
"Fastest boot would be
a) a pseudo boot (i.e. buffer the mem and send all processors to idle
mode - disadvantge costs energy - it's like the mentioned ibook does)

Why not use permanent memory and switch the processors off? Why "buffer"? That implies copying again.

"b) Save a defined machine state on disk and stream that in when
powered on (no time for seeking single files or executing routines),
the way windoze does in when suspend to disk (somehow MS still does it
not what I call perfect)"

Defined machine state? This is going to be the same every time you have booted, so why save it to disk? You again have the spin-up time and the copying time.

Sorry, both of these sugestions are slow and over-complicated.
Bootup time : Comment 110 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 16-Sep-2004 11:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (hammer):
"My WinXP Pro-SP2 (Windows 2004) boot times are;
1. loads within 32 seconds (VGA BIOS Initiation to Login).
2. loads within 23 seconds via Hibernate (VGA BIOS Initiation to Desktop). "

Just out of curiosity:
How long does it take to boot from "power on" to where the desktop is 100% usable?
Or how long does it takes from "restart" selection to where the desktop is 100% usable again?

(last 5 minutes of my Duron800 booting is when desktop looks ok, but nothing works untill last seconds before HDD stops to load)


(again today, I had to reboot one w2000 box, gui was messed up, not even task manager worked, "restart" did nothing, only the power switch worked (0.5sec push was enough, so some low level stuff was running though) nice that the other box was running UNIX, I could do things while waiting...)
Bootup time : Comment 111 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 16-Sep-2004 12:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (Zylesea):
>>Those mentioned devices have *small* roms inside. Welcome in 2004!

Why don't you look up the specs on some hand held IPaq/Palm tpe devices then?

You can easily find newer hand helds that have 64MB to 128MB of ROM these days. How big do you need think you would need for this 'theoretical' discussion of putting AmigaOS4 in ROM? Geez....
Bootup time : Comment 112 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by zylesea on 17-Sep-2004 05:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (Agima):
Quite easy, an iPaq has no HDD for several reasons: space, cost, energy consumption.
But the EPROM has also a significant cost, in a desktop computer where enough space and energy is present this extra cost leads to nothing. Also a hdd is just there...
Bootup time : Comment 113 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 17-Sep-2004 12:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (zylesea):
@zylesea

Sigh....

Maybe try reading the thread before replying, I'd appreciate that.


The whole ROM thing was just a theoretical discussion on "WHAT IF" we used a ROM to hold the OS and how would that effect boot time. AKA, I can turn on ANY ROM based system today and it's up almost instantly, so why can't I do that with my Desktop if it some how used a ROM image that held the OS that was mapped more like mememory in the system then say something like a HDD that has to move the data into memory first. gasp....
Bootup time : Comment 114 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous Orc on 17-Sep-2004 16:41 GMT
..it takes less than 1/4 the time my A1200 (OS4beta) does.
Bootup time : Comment 115 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 20-Sep-2004 21:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (priest):
>Just out of curiosity:
>How long does it take to boot from "power on" to where the desktop is 100% >usable?
>Or how long does it takes from "restart" selection to where the desktop is >100% usable again?

Just add 7 seconds to the point number 1 i.e. mostly from CL SB Audigy control panel agent.
Bootup time : Comment 116 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 20-Sep-2004 21:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (priest):
>(last 5 minutes of my Duron800 booting is when desktop looks ok, but nothing >works untill last seconds before HDD stops to load)

5 minutes is too long.
Bootup time : Comment 117 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 20-Sep-2004 21:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (priest):
For Hibernate mode; it boots within 23 seconds to useable desktop i.e. VGA BIOS Initiation to usable Desktop.
Bootup time : Comment 118 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 20-Sep-2004 22:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Cluke):
>Anyone comparing boot times unfavourably with XP should be aware that >Windows 'cheats' to get your desktop up and visible as quickly as it can.

Note that system service (e.g. print and file server/SMB network, antivirus system service agent**, firewall) is already loaded before login. After login; WinXP process "users" settings/registries (including loading Internet Explorer’s html engine). Assumptions for MS Windows NT is for multi-user environment.

MS Windows CE 4.X (X86 edition) would be better choice in comparing with AOS4.
Windows XP Embedded Edition enables ISV and IHV' to "slice and dice" Windows XP.

**Example; Norton Anti-virus 2004, Trend Micro Internet Security 2004

>It's actually still booting.

Not quite, it's loads the "users" settings/registries.
Bootup time : Comment 119 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 20-Sep-2004 22:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (Christophe Decanini):
Doesn’t it deal with 1GB Hibernate file?
Bootup time : Comment 120 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 20-Sep-2004 22:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Don Cox):
Note that, the hard disk didn’t keep with Processor and RAM speeds.
Bootup time : Comment 121 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 20-Sep-2004 22:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (itix):
Well, IBM PS/2 was shipped with MS Cassette Basic on ROM. It’s ironic that the Commodore 64(and other MS Basic PC compatibles) is actually running Microsoft licensed OS.
Bootup time : Comment 122 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 20-Sep-2004 22:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (Christophe Decanini):
>My wife ibook take about 1s to wake up from sleep. This is pretty good as the >machine is very rarely rebooted.

Define "sleep" in that context i.e. MS WinXP has "Standby" mode and "Hibernate" mode (save machine state on hard disk).
Bootup time : Comment 123 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 20-Sep-2004 22:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (hammer):
[Correction]
Does it deal with 1GB Hibernate file?
Bootup time : Comment 124 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 20-Sep-2004 23:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (priest):
>(again today, I had to reboot one w2000 box, gui was messed up, not even task >manager worked, "restart" did nothing, only the power switch worked (0.5sec >push was enough, so some low level stuff was running though) nice that the >other box was running UNIX, I could do things while waiting...)

Dependant on ACPI implementation i.e. issues is with BIOS, HW and OS. There are known cases that certain ACPI implementations are broken. Note the improvements in WinXP in regards sleep states handling (2). It would a mistake to think that Windows 2000(NT5.0) and Windows XP(NT5.1) are identical in regards to low level plumbing work.

My system has a working Standby(S1 or S3)** and Hibernate*(S4) mode.
*There are 5 sleep modes i.e. S1 to S5.
**Both S1 and S3 are verified to work with this particular setup.

Reference;
http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20020927S0028
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/archive/winpowmgmt.mspx?gssnb=1
Bootup time : Comment 125 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 20-Sep-2004 23:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (priest):
Without knowing the specific hardware, OS configuration and W2K service packs; I can’t make specific statements about your particular box.
Bootup time : Comment 126 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 20-Sep-2004 23:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Jorge):
Note that, the XBOX is not the only embedded device that has a hard disk i.e. Apple iPod and TiVO are the two notable examples.
Bootup time : Comment 127 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 21-Sep-2004 00:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Don Cox):
>Yes, the OS is bigger now, with a GUI instead of a DOS prompt,

Not just with a GUI i.e. it has multitude devices to support, multi-user, memory protection and other services.

> but also the hardware is at least 100 times faster, so it should have kept
> up.

I don’t think the hard drive technology has followed Moore's Law.
Bootup time : Comment 128 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 21-Sep-2004 00:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (hammer):
[Correction]
Should be referring to the original IBM PC.
Bootup time : Comment 129 of 129ANN.lu
Posted by PaulT on 21-Sep-2004 15:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Bernie Meyer):
re: "...(and all CF cards have an IDE personality included, so booting from them is easy). But they are *way* slower than a hard disk."

Not necessarily, though if you're talking a modern, system hard disk maybe. Our Nikon digicam had CF cards of both types, RAM and the IBM Gigadrive. Even compared to standard CF the IBM drive card was noticeably, though not annoyingly, slower.

If your RAM is large and fast, dump all the boot files in RAM, boot from there. I was doing this 17 years ago on an A1000 from floppy. For that matter, settle on a _standard_ boot image, streamload it into RAM, and have the machine run. A snapshot cartridge on a C64 did this, loaded mem image, boot > game running under thirty seconds.

My A1200/060 boots in well under thirty seconds; it was more like fifteen before I put in the PCMCIA Squirrel. My 500MHz Celeron takes several minutes. At work my 2+ GHz P4 takes maybe two minutes with all the security, network, etc. with Win2KPro.
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