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[Events] Alchimie IV OS4 PresentationANN.lu
Posted on 28-Sep-2004 00:37 GMT by MasterOfReality161 comments
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Slides used as part of the OS4 presentation in France at the weekend have now been made available online.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 1 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll (210.86.66.41) on 27-Sep-2004 23:44 GMT
PC-Task on OS4 eh..interesting.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 2 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by somebody (217.228.42.143) on 28-Sep-2004 03:58 GMT
Funny.
A few days after reported MorphOS 1.5 will have audio.device
emulation, OS4 is going to have it too ;)
They copy almost everything from MOS into OS4 too, now that's very
professional!
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 3 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll (210.86.66.41) on 28-Sep-2004 04:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (somebody):
it sounds like a developer is interested in both os4 and mos and his project doesnt need much work to port.. nothing wrong with that.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 4 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll (210.86.66.41) on 28-Sep-2004 04:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (somebody):
I should probably hold back here, but OS4 copying MOS? Whats the ABox based on? :)

dont mean to offend anyone, nothing against MOS etc, just sounds funny :)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 5 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs (Registered user) on 28-Sep-2004 04:09 GMT
Repeating myself once again (sorry) : COMPETITION IS GOOD FOR BOTH PLATFORMS! ;-)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 6 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (213.226.84.50) on 28-Sep-2004 04:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (James Carroll):
Both MorphOS and Hyperions OS are based on Amiga OS API, everybody knows that!
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 7 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by somebody (217.228.42.143) on 28-Sep-2004 04:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (James Carroll):
Obviously ABox is based on OS3,1?
The qustion is not on what it is based on, but that OS4 is
stealing features from MOS. Why everytime MOS announces a feature OS4
is going to announce is 2 days later, too? Now if you don't see it,
you must be very blind.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 8 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll (210.86.66.41) on 28-Sep-2004 04:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
come on, lets not go down that road again. I know you meant it as a joke but people with reply button addictions might see your post. (hi samface)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 9 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs (Registered user) on 28-Sep-2004 04:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (somebody):
On mr.Carrolls' defence, I don't see it as "stealing" either. Could be co-incidence. Remember, both products are pretty similar, with pretty similar goals.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 10 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll (210.86.66.41) on 28-Sep-2004 04:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (somebody):
I dont really follow MOS news.. what has OS4 copied? (genuine question)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 11 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (195.240.186.32) on 28-Sep-2004 04:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (somebody):
>Obviously ABox is based on OS3,1?
>The qustion is not on what it is based on, but that OS4 is
>stealing features from MOS. Why everytime MOS announces a feature OS4
>is going to announce is 2 days later, too? Now if you don't see it,
>you must be very blind.

Offcourse, allso the UDMA drivers...
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 12 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by somebody (217.228.42.143) on 28-Sep-2004 04:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (James Carroll):
In this case I am talking about Paula-redirection.
3 days ago MOS reported to have audio.device-emulation.
Now that's a major coincidence for me.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 13 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (82.141.56.155) on 28-Sep-2004 04:19 GMT
©Hyperion Entertainment 2003

*haha*
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 14 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs (Registered user) on 28-Sep-2004 04:22 GMT
Out Soon 3/3 tells there will be support for radioactive gas (Radon). Now how cool is that? =)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 15 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll (210.86.66.41) on 28-Sep-2004 04:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (somebody):
You said "Why everytime MOS announces a feature OS4 is going to announce is 2 days later, too?" .. What other features have they copied besides the paula emulation? Your post kindof implied they've done this a bit in the past.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 16 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by somebody (217.228.42.143) on 28-Sep-2004 04:38 GMT
Now you know you don't need to take me word by word.
Gradients,
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 17 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll (210.86.66.41) on 28-Sep-2004 04:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (somebody):
thats it?
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 18 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by somebody (217.228.42.143) on 28-Sep-2004 04:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (James Carroll):
Now we have *at least* 2.
The point is, they're doing it.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 19 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll (210.86.66.41) on 28-Sep-2004 04:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (somebody):
heh, ok.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 20 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 28-Sep-2004 05:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (somebody):
What's your problem dude? Are you gealous or what?
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 21 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 28-Sep-2004 05:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Fabio Alemagna):
jealous, even
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 22 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by itix (130.234.189.82) on 28-Sep-2004 05:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (somebody):
AFAIK Nalle Puh sources are available for anyone and 68k AmigaOS had Nalle Puh first... Another matter is how well this audio redirection works. Just emulating Paula only is not much when many players need CIA timers or access other custom chips or are just buggy...
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 23 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by priest (192.100.124.218) on 28-Sep-2004 05:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (somebody):
"They copy almost everything from MOS into OS4 too, now that's very
professional!"

I thought the same when I saw that MOS boot selector is almost dentical to the AOS one.

But I think it's just good development from users perspective !
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 24 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by priest (192.100.124.218) on 28-Sep-2004 05:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (somebody):
"Now if you don't see it, you must be very blind."

Take a deep breath and think again.

(last weekend when the unkown new MOS1.5 features were first time shown, some of them were already in AOS4, so what? Co-insidence? MOS guys copying AOS? Both adding desperately needed features, the timing is co-insidence.)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 25 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by priest (192.100.124.218) on 28-Sep-2004 05:56 GMT
What is "Sonance"??
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 26 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.144.149.13) on 28-Sep-2004 06:12 GMT
the presentation is a bit pathetic, but who cares...
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 27 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon (212.104.156.42) on 28-Sep-2004 06:16 GMT
Copying MorphOS? I don't think so. NallePuh OS4 has been in beta testing for weeks.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 28 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (194.149.246.10) on 28-Sep-2004 06:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (somebody):
Well, you tell it yourself, it has been "announced" 2 days later. Apart from
that I remember having read about it weeks/months ago it surely needs more than
2 days to develop the AHI redirection for the audio.device? I mean, even if you
"want to" steal from so., you must know _what_ to steal? Not? ;-)

Fact is, the date of an _announcment_ does not tell anything, from what we know
a new OS4 audio.device could be (and was IIRC) in development since OS4 first
booted on the AmigaOne mid last year.

Other than that the presentation does contain many more things that I'm not too
sure MOS has yet.

Please don't do the my-os-is-more-3133+ all over again, both have the right
to exist and you have the right to choose. Just one fact remains, OS4 is the
official successor to AmigaOS 3.x, MOS does not use a single bit of original
AOS 3.x source (you don't oppose here, do you? ;-)), OS4 does.

Somebody's gotta tell... :-)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 29 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Cosmo (80.189.149.248) on 28-Sep-2004 06:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (somebody):
When did MorphOS introduce gradients? Maybe my memory is getting fuzzy, but I seem to remember this being something MOS added (very) soon after it was first seen on OS4. I remember noting that because they both implemented it so close to each other. Then Aros implemented them too, sometime later.

This looks like the first time we saw gradients in OS4. Anybody have a date for this?

http://os.amiga.com/os4/OS4GUIPre.php?d=Screen7_P3.png

Not that it really matters which came first. You get gradients on other platforms for years. So who copied who/what? I'd suggest the important thing is how well it is implemented. Features of the features.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 30 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs (Registered user) on 28-Sep-2004 06:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Cosmo):
The gradients were officially released in MorphOS 1.4 .. which was released October 2003 if I remember correctly
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 31 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer (Registered user) on 28-Sep-2004 06:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Anonymous):
Actually, adapting Nalle Puh can be done in extremely little time --- If I recall correctly, it took less than a day to do it for Amithlon (as "PuhDerBaer", which is Winnie's German name :)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 32 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (195.148.82.17) on 28-Sep-2004 07:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (somebody):
"A few days after reported MorphOS 1.5 will have audio.device
emulation, OS4 is going to have it too ;)
They copy almost everything from MOS into OS4 too, now that's very
professional!"

Sorry, but I heard about OS4 Paula support long time ago, not just few days ago.
So who's copying who ?
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 33 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden (217.84.172.116) on 28-Sep-2004 07:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (somebody):
> Funny.
> A few days after reported MorphOS 1.5 will have audio.device
> emulation, OS4 is going to have it too ;)
> They copy almost everything from MOS into OS4 too, now that's very
> professional!

Only that this is already a few weeks old. The item appeared on the beta list on August 15th. Sorry to disappoint you.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 34 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas Frieden (Registered user) on 28-Sep-2004 07:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (somebody):
> A few days after reported MorphOS 1.5 will have audio.device
> emulation, OS4 is going to have it too ;)

Only that this emulation already exists since quite some time on OS4. Ask one of the beta testers, if you don't believe me.

> They copy almost everything from MOS into OS4 too, now that's very
> professional!

LOL. Especially since MOS copies the AmigaOS API...
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 35 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas Frieden (Registered user) on 28-Sep-2004 07:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (somebody):
> The qustion is not on what it is based on, but that OS4 is
> stealing features from MOS.

Nonsense.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 36 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden (217.84.172.116) on 28-Sep-2004 07:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (hooligan/dcs):
> On mr.Carrolls' defence, I don't see it as "stealing" either. Could be
> co-incidence. Remember, both products are pretty similar, with pretty similar
> goals.

It isn't. It's a port of NallePuh, completed on August 15th. The wish to emulate audio.device is so obvious for backwards compatibility that I find allegations of "stealing features" rather stupid.

But hey, he's an anonymous. What do I expect.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 37 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by itix (130.234.189.82) on 28-Sep-2004 07:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Cosmo):
"When did MorphOS introduce gradients? Maybe my memory is getting fuzzy, but I seem to remember this being something MOS added (very) soon after it was first seen on OS4." I think AROS implemented/announced gradients first. AROS implements animated PNG icons. Let's hope others are following.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 38 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas Frieden (Registered user) on 28-Sep-2004 07:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
> ©Hyperion Entertainment 2003
>
> *haha*

It seems we're doing a good job if the only thing you can troll about is spelling errors.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 39 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (195.148.82.17) on 28-Sep-2004 07:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Anonymous):
It was talked about in AW.net some time ago, and sure not just 2 days ago. I don't remeber if it was about nalle puh or something else, but it's few weeks when it was talked about.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 40 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Cosmo (80.189.147.68) on 28-Sep-2004 07:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (hooligan/dcs):
> The gradients were officially released in MorphOS 1.4 ..
> which was released October 2003 if I remember correctly

With a bit of looking around myself, I found this link mentioning 1.4 preview, with a first screenshot (broken), specifically mentioning gradients as new feature: (May 2003)

http://www.morphos-news.de/index.php?lg=en&nid=323&si=1

I can't find a direct date reference for that early OS4 screenshot. There is a post on amiga.org that mentions it by filename, but I can't access the actual message. (Did a search on amiga.org.) The date of that post is also May 2003.

The os.amiga.com news page has dates, but they don't link direct to specific screenshots, so it's difficult to work out which is which:

http://os.amiga.com/news

But, it would appear that the "Even more preliminary screenshots of the AmigaOS 4 GUI" (dated 21 Nov 2002) would be the corresponding date, by process of working backwards through all the screenshots:

http://os.amiga.com/os4/OS4GUIPre.php

A quote from this new item being: "None of the new screenshots show the default AmigaOS 4.0 appearance, although some of them contain certain elements or concepts that will become part of it."

Can anyone do any better? :)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 41 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Cosmo (80.189.147.202) on 28-Sep-2004 07:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (itix):
http://www.aros.org/pictures/screenshots/20030527/gradients.png

(May 2003)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 42 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 28-Sep-2004 07:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (itix):
> I think AROS implemented/announced gradients first.

Nope. MOS was first, then I thought "what the heck, let's have some fun", and 2 hours later gradients were implemented in Zune as well.

What's the fuss about anyway, features are features, you can't "steal" them.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 43 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (195.148.82.17) on 28-Sep-2004 07:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Fabio Alemagna):
"What's the fuss about anyway, features are features, you can't "steal" them."

Exactly. If we would think that people can "steal" features then none of the current operatingssystems should have eg. Windows and icons because those are copied from Xerox :)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 44 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (195.148.82.17) on 28-Sep-2004 07:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Anonymous):
windows not Windows
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 45 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (213.226.84.50) on 28-Sep-2004 07:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Thomas Frieden):
"LOL. Especially since MOS copies the AmigaOS API..."

And so does Hyperions OS!
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 46 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (213.36.22.116) on 28-Sep-2004 07:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Anonymous):
OS4 is about to announce it will get a lottery random number generator any time soon
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 47 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by itix (130.234.189.82) on 28-Sep-2004 08:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Cosmo):
Humm... I still remember Friedens announced gradients after MorphOS and AROS, but maybe they meant Reaction GUI. Maybe gradients were in the VisualPrefs in 2002 already (no idea, I never looked into those colour horror pics from 2002). But then, it doesnt matter who did what first. It is vapour until it is released.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 48 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (195.148.82.17) on 28-Sep-2004 08:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Anonymous):
OS4 does not copy AmigaOS API, because OS4 IS AmigaOS. You can't copy something from yourself :)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 49 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden (217.84.172.116) on 28-Sep-2004 08:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (itix):
> I still remember Friedens announced gradients after MorphOS and AROS, but maybe
> they meant Reaction GUI.

I have a mail here with the first GUI designs by Matthew Kille dated somewhere in October, 2002. It pretty much already looked like the current design, only with the darker backgrounds, and it had the gradients already.

I don't remember when it was first announced though.

I remember, though, that Windows 95 already advertised "Color Gradients", so it seems we *all* did copy from them :-)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 50 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (195.148.82.17) on 28-Sep-2004 08:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (itix):
And who cares which OS had which feature first ? Atleast not those who actually use those systems.
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