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[Events] Alchimie IV OS4 PresentationANN.lu
Posted on 28-Sep-2004 00:37 GMT by MasterOfReality161 comments
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Slides used as part of the OS4 presentation in France at the weekend have now been made available online.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 101 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 28-Sep-2004 16:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (brotheris):
Hyperion laughed at them? No, they just decided to do it differently. Which modus operandi that is better than the other remains to be seen.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 102 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 28-Sep-2004 16:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Anonymous):
You're absolutely right! And AmigaOS will probably never be "backwards compatible" with MorphOS so... good for you! =)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 103 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Sep-2004 16:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (Sammy Nordström):
Yep! And too bad for you! ;-P
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 104 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 28-Sep-2004 16:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Anonymous):
Well, I'm not sorry because AmigaOS isn't compatible with Windows either...
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 105 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 28-Sep-2004 16:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Sammy Nordström):
Hyperion laughed at them?

Yes.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 106 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 28-Sep-2004 16:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (brotheris):
Together with 'you can only make good impression once' and countless other examples ;-)
Would be interesting to see a website when/if those who collect such things will make one.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 107 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 28-Sep-2004 16:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (brotheris):
That's a pretty bold accusation. Maybe you have something to back it up?
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 108 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Sep-2004 17:06 GMT
Yeah..AmigaOS4 IS AmigaOS
MorphOS IS NOT AmigaOS...
it's better :-)..
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 109 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 28-Sep-2004 17:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (Sammy Nordström):
Maybe you have something to back it up?

I'm not going to search ann or aw.net for various reasons (ann search engine sucks big time and i'm not registered @ aw.net).
You just guess where Kjetil got his ideas about MOS =)
Anyway, now it's irrelevant, BH seems to be quiet.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 110 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 28-Sep-2004 17:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (brotheris):
I don't doubt Ben Hermans might have laughed at something at some occasion, I just doubt that he would be laughing at the "sandbox" concept itself, insulting not just the MorphOS team but also the developers behind the early PPC versions of MacOS.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 111 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Toaks on 28-Sep-2004 17:34 GMT
what an interesting thread this is,but i did notice some pityfull comments in here and thoose where about legacy support, whats the point in dooing an updated os for a new plattform if it doesnt have legacy support?, os4 has always meant to be able to run legacy stuff and to thoose who cant understand what this is, well CLASSIC.

Sure not everything will be done in one go, who said it would? , how long did it take uae,amithlon etc to use such?

OK, morphos has wos/W3d emulation , os4 has this as a plan too but it aint prioritized as high as os4 it self for now and most of all getting 6 apps and 5 games (commerical) wont exactly make it a better place right now.

Ok, os4 has nallepuh (audio.device > ahi) , sure i use this alot on my a1 and since i got it i cant live without it oh and its a contrib.....

Uae is something we have aswell on both plattforms and its not like its destroying the plattform now is it? , bitching wont do much good as infact there is alot of AMIGA people who choosed pegasos and/or AmigaOne and they expected legacy support and they have got that to some extent though both plattforms need better legacy support and well i doubt any of the 2 plattforms all of a sudden stopped such dev, but most likely its not priority 1.

HAIL TO THE WONDERS OF LEGACY SUPPORT :-)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 112 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 28-Sep-2004 17:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (Sammy Nordström):
I just doubt that he would be laughing at the "sandbox" concept itself

Ok, just do it :-)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 113 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 28-Sep-2004 18:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Sammy Nordström):
Sammy wrote:
> [...] only the real AmigaOS is future compatible. :-P

Too bad it's not very present compatible. About the future, we'll see
in the future.

Btw, about audio and gradients.. these are imo pretty obvious
features. And imo they are both almost totally useless, anyway.

Now: I didn't notice anything about IDE DMA support in those
slides. Am I blind, or..?
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 114 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 28-Sep-2004 18:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (Toaks):
"Ok, os4 has nallepuh (audio.device > ahi) , sure i use this alot on my a1 and since i got it i cant live without it" Btw what software Nalle Puh enabled there?
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 115 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 28-Sep-2004 18:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Sammy Nordström):
"That depends on what future you are refering to. When it comes to AmigaOS compatibility, only the real AmigaOS is future compatible. :-P"

And there is absolutely loads on native Amiga OS4 software in the pipeline, isn't there? The Amiga new sites are positively bursting to the seams with all the announcements. 1000 users is simply too lucrative a market to ignore.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 116 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Crisot on 28-Sep-2004 19:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (somebody):
I love this.

Trollers say everytime MOS got a new feature, Os 4 announce the same features 2 days latters.

The exact same trollers also says MOS is 18 months ahead Os 4, frequently...


so.... 18 months, or 2 days?
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 117 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Burström on 28-Sep-2004 19:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (Johan Rönnblom):
>Now: I didn't notice anything about IDE DMA support in those
slides. Am I blind, or..?

Yes you are, the whole presentation was run on a machine with UDMA enabled :-)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 118 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 28-Sep-2004 19:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (brotheris):
> So your games work on tyour system now ? ;-]

Some of them do. What is the relevance, beside a stupid flame?

No, don't answer.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 119 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 28-Sep-2004 20:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (Stefan Burström):
So it will be released soon?
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 120 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Lamont Cranston on 28-Sep-2004 20:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (somebody):
>Funny.
>A few days after reported MorphOS 1.5 will have audio.device
>emulation, OS4 is going to have it too ;)
>They copy almost everything from MOS into OS4 too, now that's very
>professional!

You sound bitter. How odd!?
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 121 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 28-Sep-2004 20:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (Stefan Burström):
Oh.. and FYI.. I've personally made a public presentation on an
april-less Peg1 (with DMA enabled, of course) running Frogger,
AmigaAmp and AMP2 at the same time - among many other things. There
were no crashes at all, or any other problems for that matter.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 122 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Leo on 28-Sep-2004 20:44 GMT
>Humm... I still remember Friedens announced gradients after MorphOS and AROS, but maybe they meant Reaction GUI.
... And maybe we don't care ? :)

As for the "X did it first and then Y copied it"... I don't know and don't want to know who got the idea first. What I know is that the *same thing* is being implemented by X and by Y (ie: TWICE): and this is a big WASTE of time/ressources. When we here both sides saying they have *limited* ressources, we can certainly be wondering: why implementing the same things in that case ? Isn't it a bit silly ?

I think it is. But maybe I have no clue. Maybe I'm totally wrong and they have good reasons to behave like this... Yes, maybe... Maybe there is a day when pink elephants will be flying.

...We had everything to build a complete plateform (An OS including Software)... And what have we got now ? That's SAD :(

Leo.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 123 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by JaMiGa on 28-Sep-2004 22:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Crisot):
>Trollers say everytime MOS got a new feature, Os 4 announce the same features 2 days latters.
>The exact same trollers also says MOS is 18 months ahead Os 4, frequently...
>so.... 18 months, or 2 days?

Os 4 announce the same features 2 day latter,but waste 18 months to really do it :D
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 124 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Rafo on 29-Sep-2004 04:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Crisot):
Talking about this here is just a waste of time, don't you think ?
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 125 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Almos Rajnai on 29-Sep-2004 05:04 GMT
Now this is *pathetic*. Why MOS freaks have to come around every time when a news item appears from AmigaOS4? Go back to your "great" announcements about cpu meters and ported backscreen clocks...
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 126 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Sep-2004 05:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Crisot):
@Crisot: You lie.

MorphOS has more than 18 mouths ahead: Red trollers :-P.
MorphOS laso has the exellent advantage to run on working hardware.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 127 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by myself on 29-Sep-2004 05:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 126 (Anonymous):
i just want to add my little 5cents comment to this thread ;)
well here's my idea:

- phase5 developped powerup, which have been the first ppc kernel for AOS.
but, it as been replaced by warpos.

- phase5 developed the first AOS compatible ppc operting system.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 128 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by myself on 29-Sep-2004 05:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 126 (Anonymous):
i just want to add my little 5cents comment to this thread ;)
well here's my idea:

- phase5 developped powerup, which have been the first ppc kernel for AOS.
but, it as been replaced by WarpOS.

- phase5 developed the first AOS compatible PPC operating system.
but, it as been repplaced once more, by AOS4.

so, phase5 is good to create first , but seems to release poor projects that tends to get replaced by better ones.

the history is just repeating once more ;)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 129 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Sep-2004 05:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (myself):
Phase 5 created PowerUP, people replaced it by a lower quality API (which was first reimplemented by MorphOS and this is the fastest WarpOS ever...).
Phase 5 created MorphOS, and people hqve been bullshited (it's illegal, it's shit, ...) so they will use lower quality OS4...

Again and again the same story is repeated:

People with liers and bad products are more popular than people with good/innovative products and honnest speakers
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 130 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by myself on 29-Sep-2004 06:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (Anonymous):
i just find something:
http://home1.stofanet.dk/hnl_dk/AmigaOS4-gimp2_2.png

is it true or fake?
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 131 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 29-Sep-2004 07:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (myself):
It's fake: in the main window is a menu bar with File etc.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 132 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 29-Sep-2004 07:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (Sammy Nordström):
Samface, do you realize what an annoying twit you are? You see fit to ruin every thread you become involved with, your blind advocacy is getting real tired. Fabio can't you just ignore this guy, trying to argue anything with this guy is pointless.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 133 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 29-Sep-2004 08:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (Johan Rönnblom):
End of August guaranteed at the latest.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 134 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 29-Sep-2004 08:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (Almos Rajnai):
>Go back to your "great" announcements about cpu meters and ported backscreen clocks...

Hey don't forget the lotterynumber generators!
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 135 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 29-Sep-2004 09:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (myself):
myself wrote:
> phase5 developped powerup, which have been the first ppc kernel for
> AOS. but, it as been replaced by WarpOS.

Not here. Some fools went for WarpOS, which has been discontinued and
is a dead end (although WarpOS programs work under MorphOS).

> phase5 developed the first AOS compatible PPC operating system.
> but, it as been repplaced once more, by AOS4.

No, they didn't develop any operating system. And it certainly can't
have been replaced by something which isn't even released. I think
you're mixing up real events with your dreams about the future,
really.

This has always been the case, remember.

PowerUP would be replaced by WarpOS. Wrong - WarpOS was a dead end.

PowerUP wouldn't have a future - wrong, it is continued in MorphOS.

The PowerUP cards would be superceded by other cards (Escena, Metabox,
Elbox) - wrong, no such cards were ever released.

ELF was a bad executable format and would be superceded by EHF -
wrong, EHF is dead and both MorphOS and OS4 uses ELF.

GCC was a bad compiler and the future was StormC - wrong, GCC is now
the default compiler for both MorphOS and OS4.

Throughout the years, so many people have spelt out the doom of
PowerUP and MorphOS. It has always been based on some future events
that they "know" will happen "soon". It's just that they've been
wrong, again and again and again.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 136 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 29-Sep-2004 09:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (myself):
I think it's a clear mockup (it's only a fake if someone claims it's
real). The font antialiasing in the program gadgets is of a different
and more advanced variant than that of the system text.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 137 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 29-Sep-2004 10:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Johan Rönnblom):
> Some fools went for WarpOS

It never ceases to amaze me how people that loudly call "troll" at every opportunity manage to insult a lot of people in a single sentence just because they happen to have made a different choice.

Are people that choose Honda over Toyota fools in your book as well? Or may it be that you just made a fool out of yourself?
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 138 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 29-Sep-2004 10:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 137 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
Nope. You may want to look up the word "fool".

I was a fool when I bought iFusionPPC, which was never really
finished and was soon discontinued.

Do you deny that WarpOS is discontinued? Do you deny that it is a dead
end? Someone who runs into a dead end is a fool. It happens to us all
sometimes, I guess.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 139 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 29-Sep-2004 11:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 137 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
>Are people that choose Honda over Toyota fools in your book as well?

In ase of Honda over Toyota, you're damn right they are fools =)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 140 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Sep-2004 11:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (Rik Sweeney):
So ? Menubar is not nesessarily any reason why it would be a fake. OS4 and MOS MUI 3.9 has a menu bar, and OS4 reaction might have it too.

Ofcourse this might be a fake, but if it has manubar is not any valid reason.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 141 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Sep-2004 11:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Johan Rönnblom):
What has (PowerUp vs WarpOS) or (PowerUP cards vs Escena cards) to do with curent (OS4 vs MOS) ?

Nothing.

All you are talking is history which happened long time ago, and lot's of people (not just few specific like you say) made errors and miscalculations. Things like that happen in the life, it's perfectly normal.

It was once sayd that 64k or 640k ram would be enough for everyone.
It was also sayd that there would be no more than few computers in the whole world and normal people would not need one.

So what ? World changes. Those were the opinions of that time, and things might have looked much different at that time. Things have changed a lot in the Amiga world too, and you can't always predict all changes.

So it's stupid to say that some guys are wrong again and again and again.
That happesn in the life, you justb have to accepot it.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 142 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 29-Sep-2004 11:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (Johan Rönnblom):
> Do you deny that WarpOS is discontinued? Do you deny that it is a dead
> end? Someone who runs into a dead end is a fool. It happens to us all
> sometimes, I guess.

You had also said in comment 135

"PowerUP would be replaced by WarpOS. Wrong - WarpOS was a dead end.
PowerUP wouldn't have a future - wrong, it is continued in MorphOS."

It can be assumed in the same way that WOS had continued trough AmigaOS 4 all the same as PUP did trough MOS.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 143 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 29-Sep-2004 11:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (Johan Rönnblom):
> Do you deny that WarpOS is discontinued? Do you deny that it is a dead
> end? Someone who runs into a dead end is a fool. It happens to us all
> sometimes, I guess.

You had also said in comment 135

"PowerUP would be replaced by WarpOS. Wrong - WarpOS was a dead end.
PowerUP wouldn't have a future - wrong, it is continued in MorphOS."

It can be assumed in the same way that WOS had continued trough AmigaOS 4 all the same as PUP did trough MOS. (Or AmigaOS3.1 trough AROS ^^)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 144 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by myself on 29-Sep-2004 11:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Johan Rönnblom):
@johan

i don't agree with you. powerup was indeed replaced by warpos.
even if warpos is now discontinued.
warpos made his time... now it reached its own end of life.
but despite this fact warpos made his way into amigaos more than powerup ever did.

the fact that powerup "may" eventualy survived (or evolved/mutated) isn't because it was based on some futuristic and visionnary concepts,
it's just because it's conceptor are stubborn, and persist were they already failled as shown in the past.

morphos have indeed reached somekind of functionnality level.
i must recognize.
but i disagree with the path it's taking. i've sold my pegasos.
today i would just say mos is some kind of buggy amiga emulator.


as for the rest, you're putting words into my mouth on your own, but i never said elf format or gcc compiler weren't good.


(ah, by the way, a personal ad: "henes, if you're still searching a brain for your "little problem", i think i saw something that could help while i was at my favorite fish shop... please contact myself asap _(^o^)_
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 145 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 29-Sep-2004 11:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (pixie):
pixie wrote:
> Johan Rönnblom wrote:
>> PowerUP would be replaced by WarpOS. Wrong - WarpOS was a dead end.
>> PowerUP wouldn't have a future - wrong, it is continued in MorphOS

> It can be assumed in the same way that WOS had continued trough
> AmigaOS 4 all the same as PUP did trough MOS.

No. AmigaOS 4 has zero compatibility with WarpOS. It is based on a
completely different design. Or in other words, there was absolutely
no advantage to use WarpOS, if you wanted to create applications for
AmigaOS 4. In fact, you would have been better off writing your
applications for PowerUP, even.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 146 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 29-Sep-2004 12:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (Johan Rönnblom):
> Do you deny that WarpOS is discontinued?

No, I don't. However, the word "fool" implies stupidity, like "you where stupid to use WarpOS". Dead end or not, the same is true e.g. for the 68k CPU. So every Amiga user is stupid because they ever used a 68k CPU?

> Someone who runs into a dead end is a fool.

Like buying a Classic Amiga, which is discontinued? Like the people that bought Cinema4D, which is discontinued? Like the people that bought any piece of software they have been using for years now which is no discontinued?

However you put it, don't be surprised if people flame you if you cannot even go without flaming yourself.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 147 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 29-Sep-2004 12:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (hooligan/dcs):
> In ase of Honda over Toyota, you're damn right they are fools =)

Hey, it was a used car, and it never failed me for all the five years I have it ;-)
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 148 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 29-Sep-2004 12:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 145 (Johan Rönnblom):
> AmigaOS 4 has zero compatibility with WarpOS.

WarpOS compatibility is still planned, it's just not very high on the todo list.

> Or in other words, there was absolutely
> no advantage to use WarpOS, if you wanted to create applications for
> AmigaOS 4. In fact, you would have been better off writing your
> applications for PowerUP, even.

Ug, in how far would you be better off writing your applications for PowerUp if you want to create applications for AmigaOS 4?
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 149 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 29-Sep-2004 12:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 146 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
With hindsight, it is easy to see that it was foolish. At the time..
well, less easy. I think that I should have been wise enough not to
pay for iFusion, but hey, we all make mistakes and most of us learn
from them.
Alchimie IV OS4 Presentation : Comment 150 of 161ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 29-Sep-2004 13:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 148 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
Well, Ben Hermans has stated that OS4 PowerUP support is likely to
happen before OS4 WarpUP support, because it would be easier to do. If
he was wrong, please inform me.
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