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[News] powerpcANN.lu
Posted on 28-Sep-2004 19:29 GMT by Faster, cooler, G4 compatible26 comments
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Freescale (Motorola's chip division) has launched the 90nm G4, and is planning a dual core version for next year. The chip is faster -- over 1.5GHz -- and cooler than the old chip, but it is also pin compatible.
powerpc : Comment 1 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Sep-2004 18:49 GMT
MorphZone reports:


Frescale are to show off 7 new chips at SNDF.

The replacement for the 7447A, the imaginatively titled 7448 is revealed along with a bunch of other PPC and PowerQuicc devices.

(updated)

-------------------------------------------------

Specs:
2 X cores @ > 1.5GHz each.
1MB cache per core
2 X 64b DDR2 memory controllers, 667MHz with ECC
2 X PCI Express
4 X 1Gbit Ethernet "MACs" with hardware acceleration
RapidIO
Power consumption: 15 - 25Watts.
Technology: 90nm silicon-on-insulator (SOI)


Press release on MPC8641D:
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/display.jsp?
nodeId=093623&filePath=/media_center/news_releases/2004/ncsg/09-28
-04_DUALPROC.htm&title=News%20Release&tid=FSH

Technical details:
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?code=DRPPCDUALCORE

-------------------------------------------------

The one you probably want is the positively excitingly titled MPC8641D, it's a dual core e600 (same core as 7448) with 1MB cache per core, multiple Gigabit Ethernet controllers (with hardware TCP accelleration) and (possibly) a DDR-II controller.

It's not due anytime soon but should be quite a beast when it's out.

--

None appear to be due to be available for quite some time yet but those going to SNDF should at least get a look at them.

--

More details here.
powerpc : Comment 2 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Sep-2004 18:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Anonymous):
Give me that 7448, give me, give me!

Any news from Genesi at SNDF? Or is "their day" tomorrow?
powerpc : Comment 3 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by minator on 28-Sep-2004 19:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
>The chip is faster -- over 1.5GHz -- and cooler than the old chip, but it is also pin compatible.

The 7448 is pin compatible with existing G4s, the other chips (8641D etc.) are not, they are ceramic (Mil Spec!) monsters with >900 pins.


One of these and a South bridge (no North Bridge required) and you'll have a machine pretty much the same as PC specs.
powerpc : Comment 4 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Sep-2004 19:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (minator):
"One of these and a South bridge (no North Bridge required) and you'll have a machine pretty much the same as PC specs."

Or even beyond! :-)

2 X cores @ > 1.5GHz each (seems to START at 2x1.5 GHz)
1MB cache per core
2 X 64b DDR2 memory controllers, 667MHz with ECC
2 X PCI Express
4 X 1Gbit Ethernet "MACs" with hardware acceleration (!!!)
RapidIO
Power consumption: 15 - 25Watts.

Connect some PCI Express Ultra320 SCSI RAID card (or make it on-board) and you will have a nice "supa serva"; very powerful, non-x86, low temperature, at entry server price (probably, not much extra components needed here)!

OK, want a desktop computer that stands out of the ordinary, then simply add some SB to it, like the VIA 8237 (http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/southbridge/vt8237) or similar, and you will end up with a desktop computer more capable than any cheap Dell crap of today!
powerpc : Comment 5 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Sep-2004 19:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
I mean, who wants a G5? ;-)
powerpc : Comment 6 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Andreas Wolf on 28-Sep-2004 21:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
And how do you want to connect this VIA VT8237 to the CPU, i.e. which bus?
powerpc : Comment 7 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Sep-2004 23:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
No more VIA, please!

>they are ceramic (Mil Spec!)

Just like my trusty 060. :-)
powerpc : Comment 8 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by minator on 28-Sep-2004 23:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Andreas Wolf):
>And how do you want to connect this VIA VT8237 to the CPU, i.e. which bus?

PCI using a RapidIO to PCI bridge.

Better solution would be an AMD 8111 via a RapidIO to HyperTransport bridge.

I'd guess anyone actually putting this chip on a board will connect up via PCI Express which will be in wider use by then and thus be more avilable.
powerpc : Comment 9 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Sep-2004 03:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (minator):
"I'd guess anyone actually putting this chip on a board will connect up via PCI Express which will be in wider use by then and thus be more avilable."

I agree. This CPU will be released not before 2nd half of the next year, and first products with it may come from next autumn to new-years eve 2005-2006 (if no delays occur, which is not uncommon). By then PCI Express will probably be much bigger than now. Desktop computers use to live around 2-5 years before they are considered outdated (depending on area of use and what technology it uses), including future technologies will make the product live longer, hence worth investing in, while solely relying on by then old technology will be a great way of reducing the lifespan of the motherboard to 0-1 years or so (not worth investing in for customer).

PCI Express is a future technology that probably will take off for real during next year. ATI is one of the many bigger players that embraces this new technology (http://www.ati.com/companyinfo/press/2004/4784.html, "The new video card allows data to be sent and received concurrently at twice the speed of existing AGP 8X solutions"), and Adaptec is another (http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/markeditorial.html?sess=no&language=English+US&prodkey=PCI_Express_index, "PCI Express, a new serial host interconnect architecture, is designed to address a wide range of current and future system interconnect requirements by delivering the flexibility, scalability, and performance bandwidth needed to support Serial Attached SCSI and upcoming technologies such as 10 Gbit Ethernet ... Adaptec is focused on providing I/O controllers that deliver the highest levels of price-performance to meet the growing bandwidth requirements of next-generating computing systems. Toward that end, Adaptec offers Serial Attached SCSI controllers with PCI Express").

It will be GOOOD THING to have PCI Express in a new motherboard product (I would even say it would be a REQUIREMENT), and DROP the jurassic standards like regular PCI and AGP once and for all!
powerpc : Comment 10 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 29-Sep-2004 05:22 GMT
At this glorious moment I'd like to remind people for one thing:

This 7448 was announced to be available at the First Half of next year.. and we all know how well these predictions tend to hold on various companies.. So in Earliest it would be on mass production next spring and most likely Apple will grab them all for their Laptops untill production volumes Ram up enough ... It may be 3 months, half year etc..

So Realisticly.. 7448:s for Aones are at least year away.. Unless of course they can get some industry muscle co-operating with them. Companies that are industry leaders on their own field and are doing active development on this same area, like Marvell, Freescale (who makes these CPU:s, btw, are having this SNDF right now, are Aone-people attending?) etc..

7447A, OTOH might be possible in few months.. It's around 1.2Ghz and quite capable chip when combined to effective bridge/memory controller. But it would need next generation Artica northbridge (=better heat tolerance and 166Mhz FSB) to be usefull.
powerpc : Comment 11 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 29-Sep-2004 05:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Anonymous):
Yep.. I think PCI.Express is a way forward. Traditional PCI is still OK for slower peripherals, but Express is real nice for gfx card. I'm not sure which way southbridge should be connected (pci, rapid-IO + converter etc)but i'm sure things clear out in upcoming 12 months.
powerpc : Comment 12 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 29-Sep-2004 06:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (JoannaK):
> So Realisticly.. 7448:s for Aones are at least year away..

Frankly, I think it may be wrong to mention "7448", "Aone", and "realistic" in the same sentence. Eyetech seems to be struggling with its peak HW this far, which is still ArticiaS based G3's.

I would put my modest hope to Genesi instead. I don't know what kind of relationship they have with Freescale, but someone mentioned to me that they (Freescale) is *very* supportive to the Pegasos platform. Giving away hundreds of machines to developers is a good sign of that IMHO. Who knows, maybe they even have an interest in *cooperating* or at least *actively supporting* its future development?

They are both at SNDF Europe right as we speak BTW ... ;-)
powerpc : Comment 13 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 29-Sep-2004 07:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (JoannaK):
"7447A...But it would need next generation Artica northbridge (=better heat tolerance and 166Mhz FSB) to be usefull."

I think it would give decent performance boost even with ArtisiaS.
The fastest A1 to date has been 1.4Ghz (cooling being the hardest part, currently it's used underclocked to 1Ghz, IIRC).

For microscopic small Amiga applications the 2x size L2 cache plays a lot bigger role than 33Mhz improvement of FSB clock.
powerpc : Comment 14 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 29-Sep-2004 07:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (priest):
+
IIRC:
- current A1G4 has 256k of L2
- 7447A has 512k of L2
- 7448 has 1024k of l2
powerpc : Comment 15 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 29-Sep-2004 07:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (takemehomegrandma):
"Eyetech seems to be struggling with its peak HW this far, which is still ArticiaS based G3's. "

Care to explain?

The "peak HW" (performance) is A1XEG4/800 (933Mhz chip, runs nicely @ 1Ghz with proper cooling).
The low end HW is the u-A1-C 750FX/800 (overclocks, but I do not know how far).
Perhaps the u-A1-I is the middle version with 750GX/800 (most likely not overclockable).
powerpc : Comment 16 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 29-Sep-2004 07:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (priest):
> I think it would give decent performance boost even with ArtisiaS.

It will for sure offer a performance boost, much thanks to the bigger cache. However, the Articia S would still be a serious bottle neck, so the question is if it would really be worth the money to use an expensive, high frequency CPU, when it still has to sit on its ass and wait for the NorthBridge to shovel Data on a regular basis?
powerpc : Comment 17 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 29-Sep-2004 08:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (priest):
AFAIK, I probably bought one of the last remaining A1XEG4/800's ever made. The new A1's will be these micros with G3's that is said to be so much faster than A1 G4. I think it remains to be seen if any more A1XE G4's will ever be built.

This new A1 was announced a long time ago. Only now I actually think they may have something to release in a close future. And it's still ArticiaS with G3, because that is all MAI/Inguard has to offer Eyetech.

I would not hold my breath for any A1 with these new exciting dual-core CPU's from Freescale, especially not if northbridges are rendered "redundant" (MAI is a northbridge manufacturer after all, and their Teron boards (the A1's) are nothing but developer boards for their Northbridge customers (of which Eyetech probably is the only one remaining now!)).

I wouldn't hold my breath for anything from Genesi using these processors either, but at least I think the chances are a lot better there ...
powerpc : Comment 18 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 29-Sep-2004 08:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (priest):
Ok.. Doubling the cache could help on normal cases.. but unfortunately OS4 clears CPU caches real often thanks due these minor features found on Articia.. I have no number on how much that'll affect performace, but it will be noticeable on multitasking systems. Io-bound apps will slow down cpu a lot more than it should be.
powerpc : Comment 19 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Andreas Wolf on 29-Sep-2004 10:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (minator):
> PCI using a RapidIO to PCI bridge.

AFAIK the VIA VT8237 doesn't have a PCI bus, just Ultra V-Link and 8x V-Link.
powerpc : Comment 20 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 29-Sep-2004 11:07 GMT
7448? Wow, I never saw THAT name coming. :-)
powerpc : Comment 21 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Sep-2004 12:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Olegil):
Mentioned in June already in an interview with Mac PPC accelerator Sonnettech:
http://www.macgadget.de/imgespraech/sonnettech/sonnettech.shtml
powerpc : Comment 22 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by minator on 29-Sep-2004 13:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Andreas Wolf):
>AFAIK the VIA VT8237 doesn't have a PCI bus, just Ultra V-Link and 8x V-Link.

It does, but it's hidden away on a PDF.
powerpc : Comment 23 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by minator on 29-Sep-2004 13:53 GMT
Just think, if they decide to use the 8641 / 8641D there'll be no more arguments about the North bridge...

I think they should bite the bullet and actually work together on this, I'm sure a modification could be done for "certification" or whatever and deals struck so end-user pricing is similar.

By using a single board there wouldn't be any arguments about hardware (OS advocates can argue as much as they want) and sharing costs means prices will be lower for all concerned - and that ultimately is what this market needs more than anything else.
powerpc : Comment 24 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Sep-2004 10:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (priest):
>>The fastest A1 to date has been 1.4Ghz (cooling being the hardest part...

Has anyone cracked open one of Apple's new G5's? It's got a bigger case than the G4 and less room inside for internal expansion. A HUGE part of the space is occupied by monster cooling towers & fans for the G5 processors.

Jaeson K.
powerpc : Comment 25 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 30-Sep-2004 10:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (JoannaK):
AFAIK It only marks as not cacheable the zone where the data is going to be transfered, not the entire cache.

Dual cores/CPUs are useless for AmigaOS alike OSes anyway... at the moment it's better to use a damn fast single core cpu with a lot of cache.
powerpc : Comment 26 of 26ANN.lu
Posted by minator on 30-Sep-2004 13:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Crumb // AAT):
>Dual cores/CPUs are useless for AmigaOS alike OSes anyway... at the moment it's better
>to use a damn fast single core cpu with a lot of cache.

Possibly not in this case, the 8641D can run an OS per core so you could have 2 Amiga-like OSs running simultaneously, you use one and crunch RC5s with the other.

Hmm, I wonder, if you ran OS4 and MorphOS on the same chip would it go up in flames?

;-)
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