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[Forum] Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developersANN.lu
Posted on 11-Oct-2004 10:58 GMT by MrZammler24 comments
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Check this out: http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/20041011-newsletter.xml#doc_chap1.

While they mention that MOS is pre-installed there, I'm assuming they'll not be concentrating their efforts on MOS stuff. (that's to be expected of course from a linux distro). So, while it is nice that Amiga-ish hardware finds it's way to people outside of the community, do you think that this is of any good for the Amiga platform in general? Or is it a sign that Amiga-like OSes just doesnt cut it for the 21st century?
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 1 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV (212.219.87.3) on 11-Oct-2004 09:15 GMT
How does an Amiga OS fit in today's situation?

When released, Amiga OS as far as I understand was built formost as a gaming machine/OS - including the custom equipment for the sound ,GFX, and thus it fitted very nicely into Multimedia which due to the display being a TV fitted into an explosive market.

Today, Amiga OS lives on retro-capabilities. It plays old games, and old apps, or updated apps. You can I guess apply that to MOS or AROS, Amithlon and UAE.

If amiga OS is to have some kind of future, I would suggest this and only from my personal view.

1. An OS that is nice for the user.
2. A stable OS.
3. Development tools and API's that allow applications and games, network tools and other areas to be developed.
4. A modern look and feel.
5. An OS that is as open as possible.

Right now, I am not sure Amiga OS even is capable of matching what is on offer in any of the mainstream OS's. Its capabilities have been around for a long time and its lacking in rather a lot of areas, as you would expect for an oldish OS. To bring people back into this OS would require major changes, beyond people being fond of it.
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 2 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas Würgler/Pagan (Registered user) on 11-Oct-2004 10:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (AdmV):
Except your final request, that's exactly the direction AmigaOS is moving in or has been in for years.

But we do need new tricks. A few ideas: thin clients, embedded systems, audio software (AmigaOS is well suited for it response-wise).
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 3 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV (212.219.87.3) on 11-Oct-2004 10:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Thomas Würgler/Pagan):
Has been moving for years. Hmmm. Sorry, you must have been watching something I am not aware.
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 4 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by magnetic (80.177.236.66) on 11-Oct-2004 11:38 GMT
THIS IS GREAT!!!! :)
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 5 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (195.148.82.17) on 11-Oct-2004 12:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (AdmV):
Maybe you have not folowed OS4 development and plans at all ?
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 6 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (168.143.113.138) on 11-Oct-2004 13:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (AdmV):
The AmigaOS you are speaking about as been shiped all ODW and his named MorphOS 1.4.2.
Well, MorphOS 1.4.x still lacks stuff like network stack, up to date Net/GL SDK but that's the path
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 7 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Ronald St-Maurice (67.68.22.89) on 11-Oct-2004 13:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
Here's a small list:
full memory protection
multi user support
translucency/alpha?
hardware OpenGL
an Outlook clone
GUI builder and Visual IDE
standardised UI window (open, save, find, etc...) AmigaOS HIG?
proper SATA and SCSI support
software RAID support (found on PCI EIDE controller cards)
an up-to-date web browser like Firefox or something based on KHTML
security audits (to see where could there be breaches)

Bottom line: it's a lot of work and would break most applications. But it's still doable.
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 8 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate (218.214.200.58) on 11-Oct-2004 13:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Thomas Würgler/Pagan):
> A few ideas: thin clients, embedded systems, audio software (AmigaOS is well >suited for it response-wise).
wouldn't those things demand as standarp practise a memeory protected os? with simpler and more robust os development 'middleware' .
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 9 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Ronald St-Maurice (67.68.22.89) on 11-Oct-2004 13:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Ronald St-Maurice):
Was in reply for #1.

BTW good job Genesi! ;)
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 10 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV (212.219.87.3) on 11-Oct-2004 14:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
OK, I have followed the plans. I assume we can agree that those plans are still a work in progress, and the progression is still behind what other OS's offer. Further to this, OS3.9 was the last release unless we talk about MOS. Lets talk about what OS4 offers when its on public release.
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 11 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (168.143.113.138) on 11-Oct-2004 15:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Ronald St-Maurice):
>full memory protection
MorphOS is stable, but yes a bad apps can nuke it. However, Quark
feature full MP. Let's hope real application will use in the future.

>multi user support
That was not mentioned in the list of comment 1

>translucency/alpha?
Has to be done, right.

>hardware OpenGL
Works starting MorphOS 1.4

>an Outlook clone
SimpleMail perfoms not to bad. But would requiere a lot of fixed IMO.
btw, I hate OutLook

>GUI builder and Visual IDE
MUIBuilderhas been release in 94.
Only lamers use that anyway.

>standardised UI window (open, save, find, etc...) AmigaOS HIG?
MUI rocks

>proper SATA and SCSI support
SCSI is supported for several chipset (Synbios/NCR)

>software RAID support (found on PCI EIDE controller cards)
There is a device with software support available for MorphOS

>an up-to-date web browser like Firefox or something based on KHTML
Right, all amiga browsers fail to do their job at some point.

>security audits (to see where could there be breaches)
With the lack of network stack it's quiet hard to hack MorphOS :-).

Anyway, let's speak about the subject: It's very cool that Freescale
offers free Pegasos II in order to increase PowerPC/AltiVec support in
OpenSource software.

Bye
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 12 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis (Registered user) on 11-Oct-2004 15:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
Alpha is already supported AFAIK.
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 13 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen (158.38.62.143) on 11-Oct-2004 15:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
If you have memory protection, multiuser capabilities comes along by itself, it just a matter of how to implement it.
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 14 of 24ANN.lu
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Impersonation
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 15 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Damien (68.213.132.14) on 11-Oct-2004 16:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Ronald St-Maurice):
For fun lets compare the list of features to Windows 2000 (the best Microsoft OS):

> full memory protection

Yes.

> multi user support

Yes.

> translucency/alpha?

Yes.

> hardware OpenGL

Yes.

> an Outlook clone

Plenty. I use Thunderbird for email & addressbook and e-Todo for my task list. It isn't perfect but it works.

> GUI builder and Visual IDE

Visual Studio, Delphi, RealBasic, etc... a nice RAD for Python would be good.

> standardised UI window (open, save, find, etc...) AmigaOS HIG?

That's one problem with Windows, especially with Microsoft's own software, they don't seem to have a widget toolkit that is used by everyone, unlike, say, Apple.

> proper SATA and SCSI support

Yep.

> software RAID support (found on PCI EIDE controller cards)

Yuck. Just do it in your OS and forget those $10 "RAID" cards, they suck.

> an up-to-date web browser like Firefox or something based on KHTML

Firefox :)

You also forgot:

- powerful filemanager (DOpus 8)

Extras:
- revision control system (subversion + TortoiseSVN)
- personal accounts system (Quicken, yadda)
- "office" applications (MSOffice, OpenOffice.org, etc)
- data encryption (TrueCrypt)
- media storage (Nero)
- instant messaging (gAIM)

Those are what I run on my 500MHz Thinkpad with Windows 2000 and I can't be happier. Well, a new battery would be good...

Damien
security audits (to see where could there be breaches)
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 16 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by thefab (62.34.98.47) on 11-Oct-2004 17:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Damien):
imho, the breach is in your brain, there is absolutely no fun in
comparing this with windows2000
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 17 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by coldfire (162.39.222.238) on 11-Oct-2004 18:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Damien):
Hell...it sounds great. But....we have win 2000 pro at work and it sucks baaaaaaad. Out of 20 machines in the hangar Friday at work only 4 were operational. Our IT budget is outrageous....but then...that's why Bill Gates is a genious isn't it. How can you make money on an OS that just works...look at SUN bleeding money. Solaris is so rock stable that lots of companies are still running 15 year old servers because nothing is wrong with them and they just do the job. No wonder SUN is going broke. Bill makes money the old fashioned way....by selling crap to idiots. My linux box runs and runs and guess what! I loaded the OS off a Linux Format disk! Virtually no money and a rock stable system. I have to agree that linux will never make it...it's too good and doesn't cost much at all. Maybe OS4 and MOS should look at windows and do like MS...but oops! They don't have a monopoly! I guess maybe they'll be able to make a few bucks on the fanatics like me that still like to relive the exciting days when computing was new and fun.

coldfire
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 18 of 24ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 17 (coldfire):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Insult
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 19 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by coldfire (162.39.222.238) on 11-Oct-2004 19:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Anonymous):
hehe....you must be a windoze user. nice zappy comeback there dude....kinda like "oh yeah?!" but more juvenile.

coldfire
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 20 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Bla_head (211.26.241.169) on 11-Oct-2004 20:24 GMT
You refer to the Pegasos as Amiga-ish hardware. There is nothing amiga about a
Peg or A1. They do not have any traditional amiga chipsets on them what so ever.
The so called new amiga offerings are nothing more than Draco PC's. Whats so
good about linux developements on these platforms ? It has very little benifit
to the amiga OS.
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 21 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by cdecanini (198.202.137.48) on 11-Oct-2004 20:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Bla_head):
"Whats so good about linux developements on these platforms ? It has very little benifit to the amiga OS."

Think again.

- OS4 and MorphOS development are partly / mostly paid by hardware sales. If Linux can sell hundreds to thousands of machines it helps OS4 / MorphOS.

- Selling more hardware supposely makes the hardware less expensive. With less expensive hardware more hardware is sold, so there is a bigger AmigaOS / MorphOS userbase.

As for defining what an Amiga is, I do agree IMHO that both AmigaOne and Pegasos are not what I would call a "next gen Amiga" as they do not have what made an Amiga in the first place.
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 22 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini (Registered user) on 11-Oct-2004 20:50 GMT
"Whats so good about linux developements on these platforms ? It has very little benifit to the amiga OS."

Think again.

- OS4 and MorphOS development are partly / mostly paid by hardware sales. If Linux can sell hundreds to thousands of machines it helps OS4 / MorphOS.

- Selling more hardware supposely makes the hardware less expensive. With less expensive hardware more hardware is sold, so there is a bigger AmigaOS / MorphOS userbase.

As for defining what an Amiga is, I do agree IMHO that both AmigaOne and Pegasos are not what I would call a "next gen Amiga" as they do not have what made an Amiga in the first place.
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 23 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil (195.1.135.34) on 12-Oct-2004 10:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Damien):
But if you have a 200$ card with only PARTIAL hardware raid (mine has memory and XOR engine, but needs to have some glue logic in software) and the fucking Linux driver insists on treating the raid as 4 separate disks you need to run software raid on, you would want proper raid support in the OS.

The Windows driver for the same card is blindingly fast and looks to the user like a proper RAID card (it supports RAID 0, 1, 5 and 10), but since dual-booting is impossible (software raid in Linux, hardware raid in Windows), actually using the card in Linux is a complete waste of money. Money I have unfortunately spent because the card looked promising.

(I'm talking about the 4-channel SATA controller Promise FastTrak SX4. Costs about half of a proper RAID controller, gets almost the same throughput in Windows, sucks rats ass through garden hoses in Linux.)
Freescale donates 10 PegasosPPC machines to Gentoo developers : Comment 24 of 24ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.8.88.240) on 12-Oct-2004 11:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Ronald St-Maurice):
outlook and visual ide : you seems to love your windows, why not
keeping it ?
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