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[Forum] Eyetech announces new Amiga modelANN.lu
Posted on 13-Oct-2004 16:56 GMT by secret spy23 comments
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Eyetech does serious business.

Read all about it.

Where? here!

Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 1 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Oct-2004 15:06 GMT
When can we hear that new Polka? Pippi Langstrumpf Appreciation Folk Singers Band are my favourites! They are so groovy!
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 2 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 13-Oct-2004 17:43 GMT
@Moderators

Is there anyway these posts can be identified as 'Humor' or some such? Just something to make them not look like completely 'real' news without having to follow the link.

Agima
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 3 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 13-Oct-2004 17:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Agima):
Is there anyway these posts can be identified as 'Humor' or some such?

You think that's humorous?

You're funny.

Hey, wrongpla.net chaps, I've got a slogan for you :

"It's not humour - its wrongpla.net!"

The cheque's in the post, right?

Gregg
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 4 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 13-Oct-2004 17:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Agima):
By looking at the submitter ?
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 5 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Tryo on 13-Oct-2004 18:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Agima):
What's an Ogema?
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 6 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 13-Oct-2004 18:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (brotheris):
>>By looking at the submitter ?


Secret Spy? How should people know who that is? There plenty of 'Legit' posts on here with similar nicks. ie: Secret Santa as an example. Scroll down the main page and there is a 'Legit' post item posted with that name.
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 7 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Agima on 13-Oct-2004 18:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Gregg):
>>You think that's humorous?

No, but it needs to marked something. And I think it suppose o be an attempt at humor. Though they usually fall short over there on both sides of the fence, red and blue a like.
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 8 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg on 13-Oct-2004 18:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Agima):
Secret Santa as an example. Scroll down the main page and there is a 'Legit' post item posted with that name.

Oh come on - "Secret Santa" is just one of DaveP's trolling guises. It's clearly a joke.

Gregg
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 9 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 13-Oct-2004 18:25 GMT
havent found any of the earlier "news" funny but this had its moments. It's worth the couple minutes of read if nothing else.
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 10 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 14-Oct-2004 02:12 GMT
come on guys that was quite funny
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 11 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Oct-2004 08:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (cheesegrate):
What part of it ?
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 12 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Oct-2004 08:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
Which
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 13 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 14-Oct-2004 09:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
because it's more or less the truth. Remember Escena and then current A1 and how it wasn't the same hw as Teron ? Phoenix from flames ;-)
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 14 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Tryo on 14-Oct-2004 10:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
Hi miksuh, everything was funny of course!
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 15 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 14-Oct-2004 11:58 GMT
It would have been even funnier if the satire actually had exaggerated the absurdity of the real situation. It didn't.
And when you think of the consequences of the monumental idiocy with the "Amiga hardware" scheme, then it's more sad than funny, IMO.

(Pippi Långstrump is called Pippi Longstockings in English, no?)
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 16 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 14-Oct-2004 19:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Seehund):
I thought it was funny because it was so absurd in comparison with reality, and when people like you claim that it is the reality, it becomes even funnier. What's next, are you going to accuse Eyetech of parasite marketing their product on Genesi's brand or Hyperion of reverse engineering MorphOS? Please, all this rolling on the floor is starting to hurt... :-P
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 17 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 14-Oct-2004 21:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Seehund):
>And when you think of the consequences of the monumental idiocy with
>the "Amiga hardware" scheme, then it's more sad than funny, IMO.

Yeah, consequences like making piracy of the OS redundant, actually getting support from the hardware manufacturer, supporting Amiga hardware dealers, selling the OS as a part of the hardware purchase rather than trying to sell the OS as a seperate product, cooperating with the hardware manufacturer for joint marketing as well as development efforts, etc. Just like in the good old days when hardware development was made "in house" and the OS and hardware was sold as one product, except the possibility to have more than one hardware development "department" and not beeing dependant on one specific hardware development "department". Sad indeed...

We've heard your not so rational ideas about a Windows kind of idea to develop an OS for an open hardware standard before. Like I and many others has told you before, there is no billion dollar Amiga hardware clone market like the IBM-PC clone market, we need to work with the few hardware manufacturers available to us in order to create a product, and by that I don't mean just an OS but a complete solution for the consumer. The Hyperion, Eyetech and MAI trio has a very close and mutually beneficial relationship. While MAI gets support for another OS and a firmware solution for their hardware, Hyperion and Eyetech is provided with the kind of hardware and support that certain other hardware providers refused them.

You know, sometimes you sound like a spoiled three year old that thinks that they would be obliged to obey you or something. Newsflash: They are not. They do what they think is best for their platform and what you as a consumer do is vote with your wallet. I'm fed up with your constant whining about the AmigaOne hardware licensing scheme. It's there and they are not going to change their minds, live with it.

As a person quite familiar with customer service, I recognize your type. You're the kind of person that has your own ideas in your head about how things should be and as soon as something goes against your ideas and effects you in one way or the other, it's an outrageous injustice and no voice of sane reasoning could ever change your mind. When Amiga Inc. announced that they wouldn't develop nor manufacture hardware anymore, you assumed that they would make some form of OS that would be sold seperately from the hardware and you probably even assumed that you would be able to run the OS on any kind of PPC hardware you like, even on a Mac. When it turned out that this wasn't the case, you got upset and felt that Amiga Inc. betrayed you and even think you have the right to demand Amiga Inc. to change their minds without realizing the implications of doing so.

I talk to people like you on a nearly daily basis. People that hurl abuse at us for not selling this or that product/service, like we would be obliged to have it in our range of products and services. Perhaps I should call you and hurl abuse at you for not selling me your lawnmower? Perhaps I should start a petition and have all your neighbours sign it? Perhaps I should send Sverker (swedish consumer rights related tv celebrity) to your door so that he could humiliate you in public for promising to sell me your lawnmower and then refusing to deliver as promised? What do you mean never promised me? You said that you wouldn't mowe your grass anymore so assumed that you would sell your lawnmower to me... Getting my drift yet? Then please don't utter a single word about the stupid licensing scheme anymore.
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 18 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 15-Oct-2004 02:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Sammy Nordström):
:-]

>It's there and they are not going to change their minds, live with it.

Crash and burn in flames is the least they can do for this stupidity.
I'd rather see that certain nice Momentum 970 board as a worthy post-y2k
Amiga computer than this bugged piece of 90s wannabe technology.
IBM tried it with MAI before, but the POP board was a failure, others
made the same experience, why does the Amiga market always have to follow
wrong leaders into a never-ending nightmare?
Probably some kind of catharsis thing made possible by self-torture, let's
ask Dr Totmacher about it!
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 19 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 15-Oct-2004 08:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Sammy Nordström):
> Yeah, consequences like making piracy of the OS redundant,

WTF? There are still people out there using AInc's rhetoric?
0 sales for "normally sold" hardware = 0 piracy for "normally sold" hardware. Oh yeah, what a great plan. Brilliant business acumen.

Not that there will ever be 0 piracy, no matter how software is distributed. The only guaranteed consequence with this distribution model is 0 income bringing sales for "normally sold" hardware, however.

> actually getting support from the hardware manufacturer,

This is even more ridiculous than the AInc excuses.
That's naturally not a consequence from only allowing your software customers to buy their hardware on a special "Amiga market" bundled with AmigaOS. Neither is that sort of "business" plan a prerequisite in any way shape or form for getting support from hardware companies. If anything, the current plan is a deterrent for hardware companies.

> supporting Amiga hardware dealers,

Not that I have ever argued against the co-existence of licensed/bundled hardware with "normal" hardware, but anyway... Why should there be "Amiga hardware dealers" when there's no Amiga hardware? Why should these be "supported" in any other way (such as by an unnecessary monopoly) than by having a real market, coming from having AmigaOS available for more popular hardware which these and other dealers actually could have a chance to sell - regardless of what OS the end-user chooses - without creating an artificially restricted and already saturated market? Would you say it's UNsupportive to let Amiga dealers sell AmigaOS if the customer doesn't have to buy his hardware from the same dealers? Why is it that AmigaOS comes off as more of a means of charity, kickbacks and artificial respiration than a commercial software product, with long-term development and planning, to sell to paying customers?

> selling the OS as a part of the hardware purchase rather than trying to sell
> the OS as a seperate product,

Please keep up. That's not a consequence, that's part of the plan. And I'm only arguing against the "rather than" obstacle.

> cooperating with the hardware manufacturer for joint marketing as well as
> development efforts, etc.

Again, that's not a CONSEQUENCE of ONLY letting AmigaOS users buy their hardware on a special "Amiga market", bundled with their OS. I have nothing against optional bundles being available for those who might prefer that. In addition to actually taking AInc's embarrassing excuses seriously, you also seem to have a somewhat shall we say binary mind.

> Just like in the good old days when hardware development was made "in house"
> and the OS and hardware was sold as one product, except the possibility to
> have more than one hardware development "department" and not beeing dependant
> on one specific hardware development "department".

The "good old days" are long gone, and it's time to adapt to today's reality.
And AGAIN you're splashing around in the Backwards Bog, and illogically swimming downwards for air.
Having more than one "hardware department" (hardware and vendor option) is NOT a CONSEQUENCE of only allowing AmigaOS users to buy hardware on an "Amiga market", bundled with AmigaOS. In fact (yes, an observable actual fact), this is what has been, is, and (with the highest probability, this time) will PREVENT more "hardware departments" from ever appearing. Being dependent on one specific "hardware development department" is the exact situation that's been constructed today, for crying out loud! Surely you must have noticed this? If the current scheme is the SOLE reason for this is debatable, but in every school of logic and in every language on Earth, imposing restrictions are at least seen as a contributing factor to something being restricted.
Allowing the OS to be developed for and sold for MORE hardware, from MORE "hardware development departments" is not a RESULT of RESTRICTING the OS from being developed on more hardware from more vendors, REGARDLESS of these vendors' licensing/bundling/dongling interest.

Are you merely pretending to not understand this reasoning? I would hope so.

> We've heard your not so rational ideas about a Windows kind of idea to develop
> an OS for an open hardware standard before.

Have we? Please let me kno... No, on second thought, keep your delirium for yourself.

> Like I and many others has told you before, there is no billion dollar Amiga
> hardware clone market like the IBM-PC clone market,

You're funny. This is what I have been saying all along, and it is you who believe(d?) that hardware vendors might be interested in buying licences to sell "Amiga hardware" (out of commercial interest, one would hope and presume) in viable numbers.

> we need to work with the few hardware manufacturers available to us in order
> to create a product,

Yup. Make and sell the OS for (and with, in case someone actually is interested in a licence) the most popular and the best PPC hardware. A few Macs, and the Peg2. The Terons are already a done deal. But with the current scheme, only one of the few available hardware options is actually available, the Terons, and only when bought on an artificially restricted "Amiga hardware market".

> and by that I don't mean just an OS but a complete solution for the consumer.

This hasn't happened (unless you count a new sticker and the Teron firmware saying "AmigaOne" here and there as "a complete solution" (ewww!)), nothing like that is planned, and if it happens it most certainly is not BECAUSE AmigaOS users are not allowed to buy their hardware wherever and however they like.

I do wonder why you haven't brought up the "official" excuses (other than "piracy") for this scheme. You know, quality assurance, consumer protection, lower prices, guaranteed supply... I mean, if someone really doubted that all that was a load of bullshit, now there's years of hands on experience.


> The Hyperion, Eyetech and MAI trio has a very close and mutually beneficial
> relationship.


Which again is not made possible only by not allowing AmigaOS users buy their hardware whe... Oh bother.
(BTW, look out Sammy, you're beginning to sound like Mike Bouma now! Making people physically sick to the stomach by regurgitating silly PR in your own argumentation, combined with not making any sense at all never was a good way to make a point.)

> While MAI gets support for another OS and a firmware solution for their
> hardware, Hyperion and Eyetech is provided with the kind of hardware and
> support that certain other hardware providers refused them.

And Mai Logic couldn't have sold Hyperion their dev kit with documentation and support, like they can to any other customer, if Eyetech hadn't gotten their monopoly on "Amiga hardware"? Hyperion couldn't have been hired to patch UBoot for Atum/Mai Logic if AmigaOS users were allowed to buy their hardw... Jesus, why bother. Maybe AInc should get VIA to buy a licence to sell AmigaOS bundled with hardware so that Mai can get the allegedly missing documentation for the VIA686B southbridge? :P

It's getting unclear what you're arguing for or against by now. I hope you know it yourself. But please try to apply logic and reasoning anyway.

> You know, sometimes you sound like a spoiled three year old [blah]

You know, ;) it sounds like you haven't read a word of or simply not understood what you're apparently so tired of hearing. Otherwise you might have tried to counter actual existing arguments instead of making up what you think other people are saying, for example.

> They do what they think is best for their platform and what you as a consumer
> do is vote with your wallet.

If this is what they propose as a candidate in the consumers' election, then their candidate will not get those desperately needed votes, and AmigaOS dies. That is the problem here. If you're running in an election, you'd better try to at least appear attractive, and NOT do all you can to AVOID getting those votes. "No, you're not allowed to vote for me, unless you also vote for that unconscious neo-nazi lying in the corner over there, and pay him $800 for the privilege."

And no, I doubt that "they" (AInc) think this is best for the OS. I think they couldn't care less about AmigaOS back when this was conceived. I think they simply wouldn't mind a few bucks from Hyperion and hardware dealers like Eyetech (the more paying middlemen the merrier) if they wanted to bother with irrelevant stuff like AmigaOS, so that AInc could concentrate on The Next Big Thing: AmigaDE/AA/AACE. So when Eyetech were allowed to "provide consultation" they weren't prevented from creating this disaster.
Since I think that all this is disasterous for AmigaOS, then my conclusions would be that AInc were either a) negligent/ignorant, b) stupid beyond belief, or c) evil just for the hell of it. So far, everything points at a).

As a person quite familiar with customer service, I recognize your type.

As long as we're getting all personal and cosy, I recognise your type too. They present at least once a month, we note their deliria in the anamnesis to save it for a dull day, hose off the filth, rehydrate them, put them back on SSRIs or naloxon and cast their lower arms in plaster of paris to prevent them from cutting themselves, and then we refer them back to psychiatry to fix them up so we can treat people who are still sharing our universe.

Lawnmowers? That was supposed to be an analogy? With any relevance whatsoever to this? What the holy fuck?

Ok, I suppose that settles it. You're not just annoying and confused. You're plain out of your mind and you don't have a clue about what you're trying to argue against, and you haven't even grasped or formulated what you're trying to defend in the first place! Your reasoning - or whatever your post was supposed to be an example of - isn't even aligned to the reality where this topic is debated. The cluetrain already left years ago, with AInc, the other involved companies, opponents and proponents and the rest of the world aboard, and you're left on the platform arguing semantics with the "Closed" sign at the ticket office. Other AInc propagandists/apologists might or might not always be totally wrong, but at least it's generally possible to follow their line of thought. Please be annoying and confused elsewhere.

Shoo!
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 20 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 16-Oct-2004 17:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Seehund):
Computers are normally sold WITH an OS, not the other way around. What you also seem to not be able to comprehend is that the AmigaOS is bundled with the AmigaOne rather than the other way around. The difference is quite significant, IMO. If Eyetech can make a few extra bucks on selling the hardware seperately and also be able lower the production costs due to larger production runs, fine. Nothing prevents them from doing so and as it seems, Eyetech is already doing it. Anyway, that's as far as my interest for any AmigaOS4 compatible hardware sold without the AmigaOS4 goes. Why YOU are so concerned about Eyetech's ability to sell the AmigaOne without AmigaOS4 goes beyond me.

And yes, the lawnmower thing was a metaphor and not very hard to understand if you would atleast try.
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 21 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 17-Oct-2004 21:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Seehund):
BTW...

For the millionth time, there IS Amiga hardware, it's called the AmigaOne. Your subjective point of view might differ and of course you're free to having your opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that the AmigaOne is Amiga hardware. Wether it's manufactured and designed "in house" or not is completely irrelevant. Wether it has custom chips or not is also irrelevant. Even if there are other similar and compatible hardware available, that too is irrelevant.

The reason is quite simple; the Amiga is proprietary, not some form of open hardware standard. I know you want it to be, but just like the Mac, Playstation, GameCube, XBox, Pegasos, etc., it isn't. It never was and it probably never will be. You seem to have a hard time realizing this and keep whining about it at every chance you get and frankly, I'm getting quite fed up with it. I'm sure there are more people than me thinking this way, probably even more than there are people who are tired of my frequent ANN.lu postings, which is saying alot.

Get over it, use your rights as a consumer and vote with your wallet like everyone else. My guts tells me that your active interest in this whole AmigaOne thing is because you do care about the Amiga and if it's true, you really need to realize that your actions is causing "badwill" for everything related to the Amiga, even if your intentions are pure and your demands would be complied with. Stop and think for a moment; maybe it's time you change your strategy and atleast try making the best of the situation for once? Who knows, perhaps enough sales of the AmigaOne would open up the doors to an Amiga hardware clone market?

All I know is that currently, the AmigaOne/AmigaOS4 bundling scheme has had no effect what so ever to the range of hardware that the AmigaOS4 is compatible with and what OS Eyetech would want to bundle their hardware with or not, so what is there to argue about in the first place? Besides, we don't even know what kind of plans KMOS has for the future, they could rewrite the AmigaOne/AmigaOS4 licensing scheme at anytime, now couldn't they?
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 22 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 17-Oct-2004 23:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Seehund):
And to make one last dismissal of your arguments...

The fact that Amiga users have to buy their hardware on a special "Amiga market" is NOT caused by the licensing scheme, it's because there is no open hardware standard such as the IBM-PC clone market in the PPC hardware market in the first place. Amiga Inc. had no choice but to choose a specific hardware solution for which Hyperion could use to develop AmigaOS4.

Suppose that their criterions for the hardware was that it would have to be PPC and that it was possible to bundle it with the OS. What were their choices? They had no more than two (excluding the still non-existing SharkPPC) and the initial plan even was to support both the Pegasos and the AmigaOne from Eyetech, but as we all know, that plan went down the drain before the licensing scheme for the AmigaOne/AmigaOS4 even existed. So, their choice was easy; either sign that deal with Eyetech or go back to their initial plan to drop the classic AmigaOS and hardware product line.

Still having problems with following my line of thought?
Eyetech announces new Amiga model : Comment 23 of 23ANN.lu
Posted by hammer on 18-Oct-2004 09:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Sammy Nordström):
Note that the VIA south bridge chip used A1 is developed by multi-billion dollar company.
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