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[Unmoderated] Food for thoughtANN.lu
Posted on 20-Oct-2004 09:17 GMT by The Inquisitor93 comments
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Here's some proof, beyond any doubt, that EarlyBird'ers have been tricked out. When even Ben Hermans says, with unanbiguous words, that the Teron CX/PX is "fully functional", what else are the poor customers expected to believe?
Food for thought : Comment 1 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon (212.104.156.42) on 20-Oct-2004 07:32 GMT
*yawn*
Food for thought : Comment 2 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Richi (62.101.126.217) on 20-Oct-2004 07:45 GMT
so boring
Food for thought : Comment 3 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Tryo (213.156.160.27) on 20-Oct-2004 08:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Richi):
I can only agree, it gets really boring revealing all the lies that came from this particular person.
Food for thought : Comment 4 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Richi (62.101.126.217) on 20-Oct-2004 08:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Tryo):
No you misunderstood me i mean i'm bored of all you trolls
Food for thought : Comment 5 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK (213.130.199.15) on 20-Oct-2004 09:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Richi):
Hmm.. Let me ask this for clarification:

For you it's OK if you'll been repeatetively been lied to as long as it's been done in entertaining way?

With this 'community' ...
Food for thought : Comment 6 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Paul H (81.138.17.128) on 20-Oct-2004 09:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (JoannaK):
It seems to me that the people who have the system are happy enough. (and Vice Versa). So as Peter rightly puts it:

*yawn* (next subject)
Food for thought : Comment 7 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 09:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (JoannaK):
I think he's just sick & tired of the same thing being repeated adfinitum
Food for thought : Comment 8 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Tryo (213.156.160.27) on 20-Oct-2004 09:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Richi):
Well, your comment was what? Trolling maybe? (posting something to cause a pretendable reaction). *yawn* ;-)
Food for thought : Comment 9 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 10:01 GMT
People who said there were problems were right and people who said the boards were faultless were wrong. Can't be that hard.. could we drop this issue once and for all...please?
Food for thought : Comment 10 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 10:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Paul H):
> It seems to me that the people who have the system are happy enough.

I wouldn't be so sure about it:

http://www.flyingmice.com/cgi-bin/squidcgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/107660.shtml

"Remember the class action 2 years ago? Well, it wasn't that popular then, but I've got hundreds of people eager to participate now."

> (and Vice Versa).

Uh... you mean the AmigaONE's are happy with their owners?
Food for thought : Comment 11 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Richi (62.101.126.217) on 20-Oct-2004 10:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Amon_Re):
gotcha ;-)
Food for thought : Comment 12 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.138.107.146) on 20-Oct-2004 10:04 GMT
To the initial poster of this Article:

Question: Did the customers buy the A1 from Eyetech or from Ben Hermans ?

Ben Hermans is in no ways related to Eyetech, so whatever this person says is irrelevant. Relevant is the company customers have purchased the Motherboard. If Eyetech never made such claims as Ben Hermans did then there is nothing tje customers can do against it or them in particular.
Food for thought : Comment 13 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 10:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Anonymous):
I don't know... are you for real?
Food for thought : Comment 14 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.138.107.146) on 20-Oct-2004 10:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Fabio Alemagna):
Any problems ? ... Ben Hermans works (or worked) for Hyperion Entertainment and not for Eyetech or AmigaINC. Correct me if I am wrong.
Food for thought : Comment 15 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 10:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Anonymous):
> Any problems ? ... Ben Hermans works (or worked) for Hyperion Entertainment and
> not for Eyetech or AmigaINC. Correct me if I am wrong.

Where he worked is completely irrelevant, for a couple of simple reasons:

1) EU laws, and I suspect US ones as well, already give customers rights which are undisputable. Selling stuff which doesn't work as expected goes against some of those rights.

2) BH was promoting a machine on which his OS would run. There's a partnership between Eyetech and Hyperion, and BH was speaking as one of the components of such a partnership.
Food for thought : Comment 16 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.138.107.146) on 20-Oct-2004 10:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Fabio Alemagna):
> 1) EU laws, and I suspect US ones as well, already give customers rights
> which are undisputable. Selling stuff which doesn't work as expected goes
> against some of those rights.

I am aware of this - unfortunately it was not the topic of my initial reply. You are surely right with what you say about EU laws. But my point was that what Ben Hermans said is irrelevant because he doesn't work for Eyetech. The TeronONE is a product of Eyetech, different company, different employees and different PR.

> 2) BH was promoting a machine on which his OS would run. There's a
> partnership between Eyetech and Hyperion, and BH was speaking as one of the
> components of such a partnership.

Right but now watch this look under the promoted Link above and take a closer look at the Date of when Ben Hermans wrote that comment (assuming it was truly him).

> Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion (134.58.253.129) on 10-Dec-2002 23:25:39

December 10th 2002 that's nearly good two years ago and shifting the time back two years we can easily say that all we know was that Thendic and bPlan announced that the ArticiaS was faulty and needs fixes. All the problems that has occoured over the time was not known to any of us, neither Ben Hermans, nor you or I or anyone else. These things have shown up over time during development and deeper testing phase.
Food for thought : Comment 17 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 10:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Fabio Alemagna):
Oh no, now you've done it! A flame-fest, featuring in the Blue Corner (but pretending to be green), weighing 400 lbs and the undisputed "I can quote leal issued out of my butt despite the fact I'm not a lawyer or can even spell lawyer" we have FABIO!!! (Cue round of applause and enthusiastic cheers!!!). And in the red corner we have... oh, he hasn't shown up yet, but I promise you he's on the way, weighing only 200 lbs and holder of the "I'm not going to let this drop until Fabio admits I'm right award" SAAAAAAAMY NORDSTRUM!!! (Cue even wilder cheering and loud chants of "SAMMY! SAMMY! SAMMY!". 300 posts of no more than 1000 words each. The first one to spot an outright lie or, in the event of a draw, a judges' decision is the winner. Now please return to under your respective bridges and come out fighting when the bell rings. Ding, Ding... round one...

Where's my popcorn... ;-)
Food for thought : Comment 18 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 10:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Anonymous):
> December 10th 2002 that's nearly good two years ago and shifting the time back
> two years we can easily say that all we know was that Thendic and bPlan
> announced that the ArticiaS was faulty and needs fixes. All the problems that
> has occoured over the time was not known to any of us, neither Ben Hermans, nor
> you or I or anyone else. These things have shown up over time during development
> and deeper testing phase.

I'm not saying the problem was known back then, I'm just saying that the board was sold as functional, when in fact it is not. Now, requiring customer to pay even more money to buy an IDE card goes against the aforementioned rights: it should be Eyetech's burden to fix, in a proper way, the problem.
Food for thought : Comment 19 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (81.138.17.128) on 20-Oct-2004 10:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Fabio Alemagna):
>>>> vice versa..
>> Uh... you mean the AmigaONE's are happy with their owners?

Opps, sorry, incorrect use of the English Language! Ignore that bit.
Food for thought : Comment 20 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.138.107.146) on 20-Oct-2004 10:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Fabio Alemagna):
> I'm not saying the problem was known back then, I'm just saying that the
> board was sold as functional, when in fact it is not.

Actually yes, it was sold as functional but there was no warranty of it being free of problems. See the EarlyBird announcement of Eyetech below.

> Now, requiring customer to pay even more money to buy an IDE card goes
> against the aforementioned rights: it should be Eyetech's burden to fix,
> in a proper way, the problem.

From the announcement below you can read that even Eyetech warned their Customers that the EarlyBird is NO final customer version and if they are in doubt should better wait for the final version.


Earlybird Systems
The 'Earlybird' Amigaone systems are in effect pre-consumer-production systems designed to let Amiga users who are capable and willing use the AmigaOne hardware now, under Linux. (Many Classic Amiga applications will run under the Linux-PPC UAE emulator s supplied). It also allows 'Earlybird' purchasers to hit the ground running when the end user version of OS4 is available, as there is likely to big a big surge in the demand for hardware when the end-user version of OS4 is released.

Please note however that in buying an Earlybird system you are buying into a product that, from the software/firmware pont of view, inevitably needs further refinement before being able to be sold as a true consumer product. Support for the Earlybird syst tems is provided on mailing lists to which purchasers will be subscribed. However neither we nor the majority of dealers can undertake to give any Linux or UAE support to Earlybird purchasers, whether for motherboards or complete systems.

So, in return, we are offering all users who wish to take up this 'Earlybird' offer a free, registered, copy of OS4 for the AmigaOne as soon as it becomes available. The Earlybird 'free OS4' offer will, we expect, represent a saving of around 10% on an Am migaOne-XE G3 motherboard

This of course will not suit everybody, and if you want a switch-on-and-go AmigaOne system then this Earlybird offer is not for you. In this case we're afraid that you have a few more weeks to wait. We intend to drop the Earlybird offer on 31 March 2004. Thereafter OS4 will become a separately chargeable item.
Food for thought : Comment 21 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 10:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Anonymous):
That's how I read it and it was one of the reasons that made me decide to wait.
Food for thought : Comment 22 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 10:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Darrin):
I should point out here that I have no idea how much Fabio and Sammy actually weigh - just incase someone tries to sue me under some strange European Law... :-)
Food for thought : Comment 23 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 10:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Anonymous):
From your quote:

"Please note however that in buying an Earlybird system you are buying into a
product that, from the software/firmware pont of view, inevitably needs further refinement before being able to be sold as a true consumer product.
"

Emphasis added.

Speaks for itself, I'd say.
Food for thought : Comment 24 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Paul H (81.138.17.128) on 20-Oct-2004 10:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Fabio Alemagna):
>> It seems to me that the people who have the system are happy enough.

> I wouldn't be so sure about it:

> http://www.flyingmice.com/cgi-bin/squidcgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/107660.shtml

> "Remember the class action 2 years ago? Well, it wasn't that popular then,
> but I've got hundreds of people eager to participate now."

Ok, but I *reckon* there are many more people who are happy with the system compared to those who are unhappy and willing to take up legal action.
Food for thought : Comment 25 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 10:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Fabio Alemagna):
>The 'Earlybird' Amigaone systems are in effect pre-consumer-production systems

That says it all to me... test models, not production models.
Food for thought : Comment 26 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.138.107.146) on 20-Oct-2004 11:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Fabio Alemagna):
> Please note however that in buying an Earlybird system you are buying into a
> product that, from the software/firmware pont of view, inevitably needs
> further refinement before being able to be sold as a true consumer product.

Right but this also means that even Eyetech wasn't aware of any further problems. We all know that the AmigaONE is 1:1 a TeronCX and basicly nothing else than a rebranded article with a different software/firmware on it. Everyone till now was in the assumption that the Hardware works except the ArticiaS issue that was only known under the Pegasos system. The two architectures are based upon CHRP but nonetheless are different. So whatya expect there are problems in the AmigaONE, no one forced anyone to go out and buy it. Even now where problems are known people still go out and buy it. That's how it is, you need to live with it and accept the things how they are. If you don't like it or feel that the promised features are not offered then you have the ability to return your device and get your money back. If we go that way then we should look globally on all architectures, be it Intel, AMD, Sparc, PowerPC, ARM based devices, they all have problems and errors that have shown up after years. Still people live with it and even the company has to live with it and try to improve things with updated versions of the same architecture or new inventions. That's how business works you can't say that it was Eyetechs purpose or the purpose of anyone to fool the customers. There aren't many CHRPS PowerPC solutions for a cheap consumer market available so alternatives are hard to find. The Linux Kernel is full of patches and workarounds against faulty hardware - now there is one patch more... who cares.
Food for thought : Comment 27 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 11:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Paul H):
That may be so, but I'd say it's pretty irrelevant, isn't it?
Food for thought : Comment 28 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 11:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Darrin):
> That says it all to me... test models, not production models.

It doesn't say "test model", it says "pre-consumer" product, which means exactly nothing. So, what count are the subsequent words, and they clearly only talk about software/firmware.
Food for thought : Comment 29 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 11:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Anonymous):
> Right but this also means that even Eyetech wasn't aware of any further
> problems.

Which is irrelevant. Once the failt has been discovered, it should have been Eyetech's job to fix it, at their expenses.

As for other companies finding problems in their products: software problems are fixed for free, with patches or new versions of said software. HW problems are "fixed" by offering a functioning, equivalent product, in exchange for the broken one.
Food for thought : Comment 30 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.133.141.160) on 20-Oct-2004 11:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Fabio Alemagna):
> 2) BH was promoting a machine on which his OS would run. There's a partnership between Eyetech and Hyperion, and BH was speaking as one of the components of such a partnership.

I have to agree with you on one point: sometimes, it's annoying that the people in that camp tend to hide behind each other and nobody is willing to take reponsibility over decisions (no just hardware but also the dreaded licensing issue and pricing). The entaglement of Hyperion, KMOS, Eyetech and Amiga Inc. is incomprehensible for outsiders. It's unclear who makes decisions, who is to blame, who owns what etc.
Food for thought : Comment 31 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Paul H (81.138.17.128) on 20-Oct-2004 11:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Fabio Alemagna):
> That may be so, but I'd say it's pretty irrelevant, isn't it?

Well it's relevant enough for you to quote my initial statement of feeling on the situation. You could argue that on that basis I find your quote above pretty irrelevant! ;) (but that would just be picky!)
Food for thought : Comment 32 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 11:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Fabio Alemagna):
If you were a member of the AmigaOne mailing list then it was quite clear that Earlybird users were still extended betatesters and pre-consumer-production-model means eactly that to me (a native English speaker).

I do agree though that Eyetech should be looking at ways to "compensate" anyone that wants to change their SE/XE to a microA1 with some sort of discount (and may well do so for all we know).

I liked the way Bill Buck replaced crippled the Pegasos 1 boards (but marketed as fully functional) with less-crippled Pegasos 1 boards with April fixes and then with even less crippled April 2 fixed boards until we get the fully functional Pegasos 2... or are there any issues/features with that? USB and Firewire all OK and running on MOS 1.4? Floppy support looking good? Just wondering...
Food for thought : Comment 33 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg (192.223.243.6) on 20-Oct-2004 11:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Fabio Alemagna):
> That says it all to me... test models, not production models.

It doesn't say "test model", it says "pre-consumer" product, which means exactly nothing. So, what count are the subsequent words, and they clearly only talk about software/firmware.


You are both right.

The trouble is, Darrin, you had to read between the lines to be warned off; some people are not so wordly-wise. By generally accepted definitions, firmware and software problems can be fixed by software (firmware flashing); hardware problems are a whole different kettle of fish.

And yes, I know I'm over-simplifying, but if you think I want to go into that whole "work around a hardware "feature" in software and limitations thereof" insanity, I'm not as stupid as you think.

By the way, Darrin, compliments on your humorous and even-tempered participation; I can hear your teeth grating from here...

Gregg
Food for thought : Comment 34 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 11:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Paul H):
> Well it's relevant enough for you to quote my initial statement of feeling on
> the situation. You could argue that on that basis I find your quote above pretty
> irrelevant! ;) (but that would just be picky!)

You said that everyone is happy with his AONE, I just remembered of something that would show you that your perception is inaccurate. Now, given your former perception was inaccurate, the fact you now say that "most" of the AmigaONE owners is happy with his machine might be inaccurate as well, but I have no way to show it's so, just like you have no ways to show it's not so.

All in all, it's a pretty irrelevant and weak argument... does it matter, from the legal and moral point of view, whether some, most or all AmigaONE owners are happy with their machine?
Food for thought : Comment 35 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.138.107.146) on 20-Oct-2004 11:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Fabio Alemagna):
> Which is irrelevant. Once the failt has been discovered, it should have been
> Eyetech's job to fix it, at their expenses.

Eyetech discovered no failures at the moment. They only confirmed that there is some issue which they don't know why they happen and how they happen. And they never said that they don't plan to fix it ? They first need to find the failure and make sure which part is truly responsible.

> As for other companies finding problems in their products: software problems
> are fixed for free, with patches or new versions of said software.

Dream on, you as customer has to prove a) that it was their intention to fool you, b) that it really is a bug related to their hardware.

I had a an Elitegroup Motherboard that didn't properly worked with my SCSI Card e.g. it was not able to handle bootable CD's while my SCSI Card offered that feature and the Elitegroup Motherboard somehow skipped it. Worked with my Gigabyte board before.

I contacted Elitegroup and they told me it's a problem of Tekram (The SCSI card). Contacting Tekram told me that it's the problem of Elitegroup's BIOS. Now who is right and how can I prove it ? Investigating into the Hardware would cost me more than throwing both in the trash and go for completley different stuff. As a conclusion I dropped all SCSI support.

> HW problems are "fixed" by offering a functioning, equivalent product, in
> exchange for the broken one.

Right. That means Eyetech must find the problem, Eyetech must confirm it to be a Hardware issue and Eyetech are the ones who speak publicly. Which now gets us back to Ben Hermans and my initial point. It doesn't matter what that guy says because he is not responsible. Eyetech is a different company, offers a different product and are responsible for it. Ben Hermans words here are so much worth as some sack of rice that has been pulled off somewhere.
Food for thought : Comment 36 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 12:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Gregg):
LOL. Thanks Gregg ;-)

You are right though, it was VERY badly worded.
Food for thought : Comment 37 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by NoBeForMe (152.78.64.177) on 20-Oct-2004 12:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Anonymous):
No-one has to prove any intent to deceive. They could just take the board back to Eyetech, and if Eyetech refuse to refund their money they call trading standards. Trading standards investigate, conclude that Eyetech is ripping people off and bye bye Alan Redhouse.

Except actually the dirty little secret is that Alan would refund their money. It would be crazy not to when someone could destroy your business. However almost all those complaining don't actually want a _refund_, they want a working board. And being Amigans they're gullible enough to believe that one day they'll get it.
Food for thought : Comment 38 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 12:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Paul H):
> It seems to me that the people who have the system are happy enough.

Not quite all of us. I knew it wouldn't be perfect when I bought it, but I honestly expected the Amiga One to be a lot better than it turned out to be.

Any marketer knows the importance of not projecting expectations of a product that differs a lot from the reality. Customers will only feel fooled and tricked. My expectations of the Amiga One product were based on the whole image of that product that has been commonly communicated by the broad line of Amiga One supporters, including (but in no way limited to) Ben Hermans. He, some of his Hyperion collegues, Eyetech, certain web site officials, and a lot of Amiga One owners, has constantly kept silent in public about any and all of the problems the Amiga One has, rejected those people who tried to raise warning flags about certain things as nothing but nasty trolls (although it later turned out that many of the issues turned out to be very true in the end), and always carefully selected the things they said in order to make the Amiga One look as good as possible. This kind of one sided communication efforts from a lot of people during the last years has IMHO resulted in a scew public image of the Amiga One product that differs quite a lot from what the Amiga One is in reality.

When I bought my Amiga One I knew for certain it would have a few issues, since I simply don't believe the fairy tales that some people tries to picture, but honestly, I thought that it would *at least* be comparable to the Pegasos 1 when it comes to quality. But it's not, it's far, far worse off.

Fact is, I can't think of a single positive thing to say about the Amiga One, not regarding it's features, not regarding its quality, and not regarding its price. It runs OS4, and my interest to follow the development of that OS with my own eyes was the only reason to why I bought it, but I can't say I am extremely happy with the situation of having to pay more than a thousand Euro for this crappy board/dongle that has been haussed to the skies by a loud public crowd, only to find out that it's far worse off in reality than the bright image of it that some people has tried so hard to project for so long time.

Just my two eurocents.
Food for thought : Comment 39 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.138.107.146) on 20-Oct-2004 13:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (NoBeForMe):
Do you always condemn companies and assume the worst before anything ever has happened ? It's not your busines and not you telling Eyetech howto do their business. As far as I know there are no complaints about users trying to get their money back.
Food for thought : Comment 40 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 13:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Anonymous):
> Please note however that in buying an Earlybird system you are buying into a
> product that, from the software/firmware pont of view, inevitably needs
> further refinement before being able to be sold as a true consumer product.

Well, if the software/firmware is the only thing causing all the problems, and if this will be fixed/"refined" in a near future, then I will be very happy!

However, I think this may be incorrect. While the Eyetech announcement leaves you with the impression that the early, "non-consumer" state of the board is only related to the software/firmware (which can easily be upgraded), I think (actually, we all know by now) that there are hardware issues involved too ...
Food for thought : Comment 41 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by JKD (69.4.128.193) on 20-Oct-2004 13:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (takemehomegrandma):
@tmhg

No, the Eyetech announcement is very carefully worded in the sense that it admits nothing is wrong with the hardware. At that point in time I believe Eyetech know full well there are serious problems with the board (as do a select grup of NDA'd individuals) but are assuming (maybe naievely) that it can all be fixed with software...so that statement looks very smart (almost prescient - sp?) to me, albeit it screws the 'pre-consumers.'
Food for thought : Comment 42 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.138.107.146) on 20-Oct-2004 13:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (JKD):
> At that point in time I believe Eyetech know full well there
> are serious problems with the board

Now, what you believe and what you can prove are two different things. You need to prove that they knew it and that they intended to fool their customers or knowingly fooled them. Can you prove this and hold this even infront of a court ?
Food for thought : Comment 43 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Turambar (82.163.139.234) on 20-Oct-2004 14:11 GMT
Erm where is this proof that you speak of?
Food for thought : Comment 44 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime (67.106.203.98) on 20-Oct-2004 14:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Amon_Re):
>>I think he's just sick & tired of the same thing being repeated adfinitum

I think you must mean ad infinitum, because the way you said it, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

@#$$% you amon_re, and your lousy latin.
Food for thought : Comment 45 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by IanS (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 14:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Fabio Alemagna):
it says "pre-consumer" product, which means exactly nothing.

No, it means exactly that. Pre-consumer to have a pretty obvious meaning - not ready for general sale.
Food for thought : Comment 46 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by IanS (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 14:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (IanS):
Pre-consumer to have a pretty obvious meaning

Should read, "Pre-consumer seems to have a pretty obvious meaning"

Bah.
Food for thought : Comment 47 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund (81.229.106.35) on 20-Oct-2004 15:16 GMT
By now it's almost possible to touch the thick and foul stink of "it was sold as 'beta-hardware'" lies in here.

To spare my poor keyboard:
http://flyingmice.com/cgi-bin/squidcgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/107509.shtml

I also think NoBeForMe is pretty much spot on in comment #37.
Eyetech might very well get away with this, because demanding or even expecting normal customer treatment seems to equal treason in some circles. The general appearance of Eyetech's "market" is that it's sort of "special" in its fanaticism, exclusionary sectarianism, gullibility and forgiveness/masochism. It's not a large or viable market in any way, but it's exactly what can be expected from the way this pseudo-market has been constructed.
The laughable "total quality experience" promise seems to be a euphemism for customers doing their best to ignore any problems, and fulfilling their holy duty to at least try to hide them from the harsh outside world of infidels (or in some cases lay the blame for the problems on said world).
Food for thought : Comment 48 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg (192.223.243.6) on 20-Oct-2004 16:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (IanS):
No, it means exactly that. Pre-consumer to have a pretty obvious meaning - not ready for general sale.

Sez you.

Sez I : "Typical ambiguous marketing drivel, using up space to say something that sounds vaguely informative but upon closer inspection means nothing."

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pre-consumer

Just because Fabio is an irritating bastard, doesn't mean he's not right occasionally (well, hardly ever, really, but just this once...). I respectfully suggest you learn to read such marketing gibberish more sceptically, otherwise you're in for a life of continuing disappointment.

Gregg
Food for thought : Comment 49 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis (Registered user) on 20-Oct-2004 16:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Darrin):
There is no Firewire stack in MorphOS 1.4. USB works fine.
Now, about floppy, it works fine but not in MorphOS, which has *NO* floppy support. It has nothing to do with hardware or driver problems, there is no
trackdisk.device and there won't be one in the future, either.
Food for thought : Comment 50 of 93ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund (81.229.106.35) on 20-Oct-2004 16:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Gregg):
And if we go back and put this new "pre-consumer-production" Marketese adjective in its original context:

"The 'Earlybird' Amigaone systems are in effect pre-consumer-production systems designed to let Amiga users who are capable and willing use the AmigaOne hardware now, under Linux."

The hardware is not "pre-consumer-production" (whatever meaning anyone wishes to give that expression) - the system is, because, as is explained, AmigaOS is not yet available and the firmware will need updates.

To reiterate, the "AmigaOne" hardware has never been sold as anything but fully functional nor as being exempt from minimum legislated warranties and other consumer rights. Quite the opposite, which everyone really should be painfully aware of after all this time with the compulsory hardware licensing scheme in place.
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