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[Web] AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platformANN.lu
Posted on 22-Oct-2004 10:29 GMT by takemehomegrandma53 comments
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The Pegasos II is featured in an article on the website AppleLinks. The article is called "Pegasos - An Alternative Power PC Platform" and it's a good read for newbies interested in a PPC solution other than the Mac.

One of the big stories on the Mac Web last week (and ongoing) was the Cherry OS emulator that is claimed to run OS X efficiently on X86 PC platforms. It remains to be seen whether Cherry OS can deliver, but there is another alternative to Apple hardware that is capable of running the Mac OS in emulation.

The article then describes the Pegasos system, covering it's CPU's, OS's, etc, and sums up what it's all about in a quite nice way. Read the article here: http://www.applelinks.com/pm/more.php?id=2546_0_1_12_M

AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 1 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs (Registered user) on 22-Oct-2004 08:45 GMT
Good and informative article. Suitable to link to in case someone wants to know what the heck is 'Pegasos'. Thanks for the link
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 2 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (213.196.241.24) on 22-Oct-2004 09:06 GMT
Funny enough, the red troll brigade is already there...
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 3 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Janne (195.197.214.226) on 22-Oct-2004 09:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
In all fairness, we don't know if the single major troll was a "red". It might just seem that way. (If it was a "red" though, shame on him.) The rest of the OS4 mentions (the adveritising) is perfectly normal in my opinion.

Nice article.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 4 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by priest (Registered user) on 22-Oct-2004 09:34 GMT
That MOS/pegasos bashing comment make me sick.

Other than that...
1) Great: Amiga was mentioned in the article. :)
2) About bundled SW:
"VHI Studio Lite
Import your digital camera images, animations, and more with this wonderfully configurable and easy to use software. VHI Studio Lite supports several methods to acquire images and animations, ARexx, and more."
Does MOS have ARexx already?
3) Is this 100% true:
"The Open Desktop Workstation is the only Linux PowerPC solution available on the market today that is endorsed by IBM and Freescale Semiconductor." ?? Is the "trick" in the " and Freescale Semiconductor" section ?
4) @Rönnblom
AmigaOne is not a MAI product, especially not the price. ;)
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 5 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (213.196.241.24) on 22-Oct-2004 09:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Janne):
Ah well, lets see what happens on AWN next time one ask for the next Gen Amigas and one mention Mos/Pegasos as an alternative....
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 6 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele (62.11.108.195) on 22-Oct-2004 09:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (priest):
Mr. Priest wrote:

>Does MOS have ARexx already?

Yes, it has.

And while some times ago you must copy one of the Arexx libraries from original Amiga Disks, now this fact is no long necessary, because Arexx is fully integrated into MOS.

(And also it is all PPC based...) ;-)
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 7 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon (212.104.156.42) on 22-Oct-2004 09:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
Its perfectly valid to mention another PPC alternative, on the comments for an article about alternative PPC platforms... obviously not in the way "sboing" did it, though.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 8 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Janne (195.197.214.226) on 22-Oct-2004 09:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
>Ah well, lets see what happens on AWN next time one ask for the next Gen
>Amigas and one mention Mos/Pegasos as an alternative....

*justkidding* Probably thread locking, lots of moderating and banning? :) *justkidding*

I'm not making any assertions about the fairness of AWN. I was just trying to be fair myself.

Hey, AWN mentioned MorphOS today when commenting SourceForge. Maybe they are getting better? :)
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 9 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (213.226.84.50) on 22-Oct-2004 10:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Raffaele):
Really? FULL Arexx?
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 10 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 22-Oct-2004 10:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Anonymous):
Why, can you also have "half" AREXX? :-)

Hey, even AROS has AREXX, why shouldn't MOS? (No, MOS doesn't use AROS' AREXX).
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 11 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.133.131.196) on 22-Oct-2004 10:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Anonymous):
> Really? FULL Arexx?

Yes, I think so. Last time I made a benchmark with ARexx, it was two times faster (I previsouly had copied ARexx over from AmigaOS3). Can not explain this speed increase otherwise.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 12 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.133.131.196) on 22-Oct-2004 10:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Fabio Alemagna):
> No, MOS doesn't use AROS' AREXX

"AROS's ARexx" is based on Regina, right? And MorphOS's Rexx is what, a completely new Rexx? By Sigbjřrn Skjćret?
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 13 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna (Registered user) on 22-Oct-2004 10:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Anonymous):
To be honest, I don't know.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 14 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (213.226.84.50) on 22-Oct-2004 10:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Anonymous):
What's the legal status of "the real" Arexx (68k) by the way? I recall something about the author never approved/licensed Commodore to use it in AmigaOS 3.x, but they didn't care and simply used it anyway, unlicensed? Or something like that. Anyone remembers?
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 15 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (64.134.107.238) on 22-Oct-2004 10:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (priest):
http://www.pegasosppc.com/odw.php

Follow IBM and Freescale links...
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 16 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom (193.11.251.131) on 22-Oct-2004 11:07 GMT
I'm pretty sure that MOS 1.4 does not have full ARexx support
(although it has some partial support which helps in some cases).

I also haven't heard any promises that it will be in 1.5.

The emulated ARexx works fine of course, so the only problem is those
who do not own a legal copy of a 68k ARexx, and the hassle involved in
copying these files.

Btw, does OS4 have any ARexx? (no I'm *not* trolling, I do want to
know)
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 17 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon (212.104.156.42) on 22-Oct-2004 11:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Johan Rönnblom):
Yes, OS4 has fully working ARexx.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 18 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by hehe (80.8.82.223) on 22-Oct-2004 11:34 GMT
"Genesi owns MorphOS and develops and modifies it internally."
hehe...
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 19 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini (Registered user) on 22-Oct-2004 11:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Johan Rönnblom):
"The emulated ARexx works fine of course, so the only problem is those
who do not own a legal copy of a 68k ARexx, and the hassle involved in
copying these files."

The last known legal copy of Arexx was when it was sold as a separate product from William S. Hawes.
If I remember well, Don Cox is one of the rare (active) users with such a legal copy of Arexx.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 20 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (213.226.84.50) on 22-Oct-2004 11:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Johan Rönnblom):
Yes, Hyperion copied the 68k binaries from the AmigaOS disks. MorphOS users will have to do that manuever themselves, because I too am pretty sure there is no complete Arexx in MorphOS 1.4.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 21 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (213.226.84.50) on 22-Oct-2004 11:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Christophe Decanini):
So the question is then - are Hyperion brave or stupid?
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 22 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini (Registered user) on 22-Oct-2004 12:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Anonymous):
I don't know if Hyperion has any arrangements with William S. Hawes.
If not Hyperion may just say that it was given to them as part of AmigaOS by AmigaInc who got it from Gateway who got it from Commodore.
Commodore screwed William S. Hawes in the first place. He did not go to court and stopped Arexx development.
If he didn't go to court 17 years ago when his software was sold in the millions there is a big chance he won't go to court anytime soon for a few thousands copies more.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 23 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Gregg (192.223.243.6) on 22-Oct-2004 12:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Anonymous):
So the question is then - are Hyperion brave or stupid?

Maybe they think it's GPL software?

Uh-ohh - I think I just did a bad thing...

Gregg
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 24 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon (212.104.156.42) on 22-Oct-2004 12:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Christophe Decanini):
As far as I'm aware, Hyperions line is that they got ARexx along with the rest of the licensed stuff from Amiga, Inc. Note that this is vague recollection, not fact, and that I don't speak for Hyperion.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 25 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon (212.104.156.42) on 22-Oct-2004 12:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Peter Gordon):
That is, the ARexx binaries, not the source.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 26 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin (Registered user) on 22-Oct-2004 12:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Peter Gordon):
>Yes, OS4 has fully working ARexx.

Not so "fully" since some of my Rexx stuff doesn't run correctly
on it, according to a friend who owns an A1.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 27 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by minator (81.51.80.119) on 22-Oct-2004 13:13 GMT
Whoever sboing claims to support he has done nothing other than shot himself in the foot.

His post lead to a good old Red Vs Blue spat which we expect on ANN but...

What will anyone reading those comments going to think?

They'll see a load of accusations and counter accusations being thrown concerning the Pegasos, A1 and MicroA1. They'll probably wonder what the hell they're getting into and not bother with either. If the same thing happens with an article on the A1 it'll have the same result.

All this arguing helps no one, it's divided the community into 3, some red, some blue and the rest -the biggest part- have gone elsewhere. It is hardly likely to get any new people in.

--

Besides it'd be much better going after Windows users, they have plenty to complain about, they have reasons to look elsewhere. If you've got a Mac you probably got it for OS X and they don't have much of a reason to look elsewhere.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 28 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom (193.11.251.131) on 22-Oct-2004 13:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Peter Gordon):
In that case they are distributing pirated software, as neither Amiga
Inc, Gateway or Commodore had the rights for ARexx.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 29 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.133.145.210) on 22-Oct-2004 14:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Johan Rönnblom):
> In that case they are distributing pirated software, as neither Amiga
Inc, Gateway or Commodore had the rights for ARexx.

So what? In that case everybody is using a pirated ARexx, you included. I don't understand the concern about ARexx. It's comparatively easy to write such an interpreter. It anyone thought it was really necessary.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 30 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.236.95.54) on 22-Oct-2004 15:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Anonymous):
There are a lot of undocumented stuff in ARexx.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 31 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (213.226.84.50) on 22-Oct-2004 15:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Anonymous):
I heard it would be a nightmare, and it would be extremely difficult to do it in PPC and make it compatible since there are some serious 68k dependencies inside, but I don't really know ...
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 32 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Leo (82.254.25.110) on 22-Oct-2004 16:47 GMT
>Commodore screwed William S. Hawes in the first place.

What happened ? I'd like to hear more about that...

Leo.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 33 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK (213.130.199.15) on 22-Oct-2004 17:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Christophe Decanini):
I'm not sure If I can be consdered active user at the moment but I did purchase it directly from Author long before it was part of AmigaOS. And I still have it.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 34 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini (Registered user) on 22-Oct-2004 17:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Leo):
It was said that he stopped Arexx development because he was not paid / fully paid by Commodore when they bundled it with AmigaOS 2.0.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 35 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Peter (69.50.46.250) on 22-Oct-2004 17:25 GMT
Alles nur geklaut.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 36 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by pixie (193.137.77.49) on 22-Oct-2004 17:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Christophe Decanini):
One more thing Amiga Inc has done wrong, isn't it... geez, whatever
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 37 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini (Registered user) on 22-Oct-2004 17:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (pixie):
Commodore mainly. AmigaInc may not even have been aware ...
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 38 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Use2B1 (12.105.79.66) on 22-Oct-2004 18:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Johan Rönnblom):
Seems a lot of assumptions regarding copyrights to Arexx.
First, I understood REXX was developed by IBM, and ran on their mainframes. IBM also included a version of REXX in OS2.0. So Arexx, meant to be compatible with REXX (or mostly anyway) is not an original concept, though the specific coding implementation may be copyrighted (like different versions of BASIC or Pascal).
Thus, if someone writes a similar interpreter for PPC, how can it be pirated, unless it was reverse engineered and subsequently translated. Anyone know if that's the case for either Genesi or Hyperion? Or was it just re-implemented so the commands work the same. Or are we all just guessing?
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 39 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini (Registered user) on 22-Oct-2004 18:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Use2B1):
I guess Johann means that including the existing Arexx binaries in a commercial product is similar to pirating.
The problem is that most of the users do not know what was in the original contract between Commodore and the Arexx author, were not aware of what really happened.
I guess that it is not a big deal for the author anymore as he never sued anyone for it.
Maybe someone can just ask him if he still cares about it and if he could put it in the public domain and or GPL.
If not there are only two options: using the existing binaries in emulation or restart from scratch / adapt from other implementations.
The first solution is quick and easy but not evolutive while the second one demands a lot of work but allows improvements.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 40 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Gunne Steen (213.66.185.100) on 22-Oct-2004 18:41 GMT
http://regina-rexx.sourceforge.net/
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 41 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini (Registered user) on 22-Oct-2004 18:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Gunne Steen):
My understanding is that regina does not replace completely the Arexx functionality. Maybe some knowledgable person can enlighten us.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 42 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini (Registered user) on 22-Oct-2004 19:02 GMT
http://www.applelinks.com/pm/comments.php?id=2546_40_1_12_
Well said ...
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 43 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom (193.11.251.131) on 22-Oct-2004 19:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Christophe Decanini):
@Christophe Decanini:
No, I'm not saying it is "similar" to pirating, it *IS* pirating. It's
not like piracy is any better because you charge money for it. On the
contrary, it's worse.

@Use2B1:
IBM are irrelevant. What we are talking about here is a specific
implementation of ARexx, developed and owned by William S. Hawes. No
one is allowed to distribute these binaries without his permission.
Nothing has been re-implemented, they are the same binaries that were
also illegally distributed with OS3.5 and OS3.9.

@Anonymous:
To the best of my knowledge, the binaries distributed with OS3.1 were
licensed in an orderly fashion. If that is wrong, please tell.
Personally, I legally own enough revisions of AmigaOS that I'm quite
sure I'm safe in any circumstance.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 44 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Gunne Steen (213.66.185.100) on 22-Oct-2004 19:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Christophe Decanini):
Yup.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 45 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.133.128.118) on 22-Oct-2004 19:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anonymous):
> I heard it would be a nightmare, and it would be extremely difficult to do it in PPC and make it compatible

There must be a lot of undocumented obscure stuff then because I don't see anything difficult in ARexx per se (as in "the language"). Writing an interpreter in that class takes weeks, not months. Easy syntax, good documentation, small command set, most commands are trivial, the expected performance is moderate.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 46 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas (81.225.88.127) on 22-Oct-2004 20:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Johan Rönnblom):
Sorry...But i belive you got it wrong..

Commodore had the license to include Arexx in AmigaOS 2.0 and further..

If someone remember this was one of the reasons that AmigaOS couldnt go "open source" (1999)..Arexx could not be included with several other things..

So..If MorphOS have Arexx included...Well...Then you can call it Piracy...
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 47 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (80.133.128.118) on 22-Oct-2004 21:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Thomas):
> So..If MorphOS have Arexx included...Well...Then you can call it Piracy...

Surely you mean "if you transfer ARexx from OS3.x to MorphOS it's equivalent to using pirated software? Because MorhpOS is an 68k code free zone.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 48 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini (Registered user) on 23-Oct-2004 02:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Johan Rönnblom):
"To the best of my knowledge, the binaries distributed with OS3.1 were
licensed in an orderly fashion. If that is wrong, please tell. "

Wrong. There was a dispute between W Hawes and Commodore before 3.0
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 49 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Ronald St-Maurice (67.68.24.139) on 23-Oct-2004 02:52 GMT
I've seen a thread just like one this at OSNEWS when someone was asking about the Pegasos. Shameful and sad.

Put the bong down, people.
AppleLinks: "Pegasos Inside", a nice article about this alternative PPC platform : Comment 50 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini (Registered user) on 23-Oct-2004 03:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Thomas):
"So..If MorphOS have Arexx included...Well...Then you can call it Piracy... "

MorphOS does not have any Arexx binaries.
To make it work most users get it from a legal copy of AmigaOS they own.
The problem is that Arexx may have been bundled illegaly with AmigaOS 3.X (and maybe even 2.X) in the first place.
Some people consider it abandonware, some people think Commodore screwed the Arexx author, most of the people don't know / don't care.
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