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[Motd] MOTD 02/01/2002ANN.lu
Posted on 02-Jan-2002 22:39 GMT by Christian Kemp174 comments
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Today, I tracked over one hundred attempts of abuse on ANN. I've been working on the filters and editing mechanisms for over four hours. Maintaining ANN is turning into real work, and all I see are tasks that I despise. This one individual, and the general attitude on ANN lately, is alienating visitors and making this site a horrible place to be. Most of what I see is insults and blind advocacy... I'm tired... And I can just see the negative comments again, in reply to me posting this...
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 101 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by William F. Maddock on 03-Jan-2002 13:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Daniel Miller):
I can amen that. I must confess that I haven't been on the newsgroups in several weeks at least, so I haven't seen it there, but I have seen it wherever I have gone (except the mailing lists I'm on). I haven't seen it so intense either. It doesn't really surprise me, though. The Amiga community has been hanging on for an incredibly long time with virtually no real hope in sight. We haven't been anything but an anachronism for all that time. Why bother with us? Now, though, things really are happening, and someone sees "us" as a force to reckon with, so they are, in their own way, trying to fight what is about to happen. Just remember the old saying, "It's always darkest just before the dawn." I don't care how true or not true that is in a meteorological or astronomical sense. It is true in the sense intended. I'm sure many of us have been through times like these in our personal lives. I know I have. In fact I wrote about it last evening, before our prayer meeting at church. The result is sitting up on the Net Distillery, either in postscript format in pub/inbox, or in PDF format in pub/out with a filename, not considering case, of IntoYourLove. The filename extention will be appropriate to the format, of course. I should also say that I don't expect non-Christians to understand it as written, but I am hoping that someone will find it helpful.
Christian, please don't give up.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 102 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 03-Jan-2002 13:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (William F. Maddock):
As an ex christian turned athiest I find that incredibly patronising. I hope you did not mean it the way you stated it.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 103 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Andy Mills on 03-Jan-2002 13:44 GMT
Christian, don't let the b******s grind you down - you do a great job here with ANN. I'm sure the number of "grateful", legitimate users of ANN more than outway the idiots...
As for the suggestions of users having to register - the problem with this is that people can still register with fake details. I know it creates extra work for people to abuse this service, but it ultimately won't stop them.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 104 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Henrik on 03-Jan-2002 14:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Tony Barton):
Have tried linux and NetBSD
and tried to install openbsd but it did not work so good dont think freebsd runs on amiga.
linux is the easiest to install (redhat 5.1)
NetBSD for amiga seems to be the most uptodate of them all and not to hard to install. Installed over network from my pc.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 105 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 03-Jan-2002 14:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Henrik):
I would agree with that, if you have a PCI busboard dont also dont expect it to work out of the box. Ive got a CD here somewhere with netbsd for Amiga and other platforms and I never got it to work - maybe if I had more patience with it.... :-)
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 106 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 03-Jan-2002 14:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Mekanix):
>I've already got a zillion accounts around the net all with different ID's and
>passwords and I can't remember half of them. And I've grown so tired of this
>that I just avoid sites that demand registration.
Well, that's what cookies are for, and most sites (although they all should) provide a way of emailing you your user_id/password by entering your email address. So, even if you do forget your user_id/password, most of the time it's not hard to retrieve it.
And why would you use a new user_id/password for each site? Why not standardize them so it's easy to remember. I have a small number of user_id's & passwords that I use for most web forums (they're not all the same, but not all unique either). Makes life a bit easier.
Regardless, you can't blame someone for wanting to run a clean site. Security, and in this case registration, is a fact of life these days. Get used to it.
- Mike
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 107 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by THE Believer on 03-Jan-2002 14:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (Dave):
Are we agreed that the world is millions of years old?..... Are we also agreed that Ceaser created/converted the modern calender.
If that is the case.... Then All Atheists must STOP using the current dating system.... WHY?.....Cos its only the year.......2002. Not even the September 11th atrocities or two nuclear detonations....causing how many deaths?....~Numerous catastrophies..World WARS......THE FLOOD.. The General Dating system starts from what point?............ Must have been an AWESOME dude.
>
>
ACTS 16:31... I may not be a good Christian...Probably end up a Dunny cleaner in Gods Jobs for the "Goodies" In the HereAfter .... But at least Im "Saved".
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 108 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 03-Jan-2002 14:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Firebird^):
>I would be willing to register just to get rid of the annoying crap as long as
>there were assurances on my personal information (name, email address, etc.)
>not being released or sold to anyone.
I'll agree with you here. Privacy is important to everyone and I would strongly urge anyone forcing people to register to post that all information be kept secret. Using Encryption would also be good because since everytime someone hacks a site they may access this private data as well.
However, since there are no credit cards in use here, there's little a hacker could actually steal from you on a site like this.
- Mike
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 109 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 03-Jan-2002 14:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (Mika Hanhijärvi):
>JAVA ? Do you want to block Amiga browsers or what ? I still don't ha ve a PC
>and I use internet with my A1200 so no way !!!
I think they mean using Java for the backend, which would be a lot like using Perl or even C. It would be transparent to you as it would spit out HTML code and transmit it to your machine. I doubt they mean JavaApplets, in which case you would need a Java engine of some kind running on your machine. Java applets are not necessary here (and neither is Flash or Shockwave).
- Mike
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 110 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Very important... on 03-Jan-2002 14:45 GMT
Christian Kemp is cool,
Christian Kemp is excellent,
Christian Kemp is the best,
Christian Kemp is unbeleivaably COOL & talented!
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 111 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 03-Jan-2002 14:46 GMT
Are there any filters against sarcasm? ;-P
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 112 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 03-Jan-2002 14:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (THE Believer):
What a VERY illogical addition. Ill ignore it.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 113 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Re: very important on 03-Jan-2002 14:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (Very important...):
I was just trying to boost his confidence a little bit! ;-)
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 114 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 03-Jan-2002 14:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (Frank213):
>Experience shows otherwise.
Really? My experience shows that registered forums with strict rules enforced by modirators provide the best discussions. Take a look at www.hometheaterforum.com. Very strict, but very fair and a real fountain of knowledge. I leanred so much about all sorts of things (incluing computers) mostly because the discussions are very civil. They don't ban users that often, but you will see a lot of warnings from the moderators to chill out, otherwise they might ban you.
>No, most people do not want to have to log on to a system regardless of what
>they have to say (unless they are in need of help for a problem they're
>facing).
Sure, registering is always a pain. So is going through security at an airport. It's a small inconvenience, big deal. We've already seen people who have left the community because of all the in-fighting, we need to clean up the forums. By registering the users, they will also be required to read a set of rules and guidelines for posting. If they do not agree with them they do not have to register and hense not post either. If they break the rules then they can be warned, and if they persist, banned. It is of course important that the moderators be fair and stick to their own rules. Banning someone because you disagree with them is not right. Banning someone for blatantly breaking the rules (whatever that might be) is what's expected.
Filters can help too. I think Filters would be a good idea, but not a complete solution.
- Mike
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 115 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 03-Jan-2002 15:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Samface):
>Perhaps one way would be by sending a unique cookie to the IP of the poster, >if his/her IP is spoofed they won't recieve the cookie and their browser won't >send the appropriate confirmation. I don't know, just an idea...
Nice idea, but I think cookies are set within the HTTP transaction. You don't send cookies to IP addresses. I could be wrong here, but I don't think it works that way.
I was thinking that there MUST be a way to verify a user's IP address. I know there's some form of http authentication, but that usually requires someone to login to a site. There is also the "secure" conntection, or shttp. This type of connection, although a bit slower to load due to encryption, should also provide for some form of IP registering. Could you use shttp for posting an article?
I believe there's a way, it's just I don't know how. The community has to come together to protect itself. We've got the brains, so I'm not too worried.
- Mike
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 116 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jan-2002 15:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Samface):
>After that the trace led onto Bell's internal IP's like: 10.74.34.1 and
>10.74.34.2 (It kind of bounced between those 2 for a while...)
Good work Sammy! Now you might want to give all the evidence to Bell and see what they do. I'm sure they wouldn't like the idea of someone using their systems to hack web sites. It might be from someone who works at Bell, or it might just be a Bell user's account that has been hacked. Either way, closing that account will be one step forward for us.
- Mike
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 117 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 03-Jan-2002 15:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (THE Believer):
>Are we also agreed that Ceaser created/converted the modern calender.
Caesar was a pagan (like the whole Roman empire was at that time), why would they base a calendar on another religion?
The Emperor Constantine converted the Empire to what we now call Christianity by blending elements of the then Pagan religion and the then Christian religion to come up with modern Christianity. For example, Christian angels actually came from Paganism, all those thousands of years ago.
As for the calendar system, I don't think anybody started keeping time until the year 500. And rather interestingly, by our modern calendar system, King Herod (from the Christmas story) wasn't born until the year 30AD!
All I am saying is that the modern calendar system can only be moderately accuracte for 1500 years at the most, before that they didn't even have timekeeping devices, Issac Newton (1500ish) used his own heartbeat when he discovered the laws of motion!
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 118 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mekanix on 03-Jan-2002 15:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Mike Veroukis):
AFAIK cookies aren't regarded as very secure, especially if you are an IE user. Secondly many users constantly switch browser (home, work trying out different browsers etc.). ANN would need a database of cookies applied to every account. Lastly, ANN is located inside EU, and some wellmeaning but illinformed commission is playing with some regulation to ban cookies (to protect consumers). Hopefully this will not happen.
As for remembering id's/passwd... yeah... I'm increasingly using a small set of ID's and passwd... which is *very* unhealthy. Especially given the hack-records various Amiga-related sites are carrying. And that's also why I'm not very comfortable to leave a emailaddress anywhere. Once it's in the hands of a spammer it's bye bye. And an often change of emailaddress also leave you with the hassle to update you zillion account with a new address.
Look at Yahoo and you got a prime example of a reg-system gone sour.
And no, I'm not blaming Chris anything. Personally I'd closed down long ago. But I'd like to put a little attention as to why ANN is so popular and is buzzing with life. ANN isn't the only news-site, ANN isn't the most uptodate news-site, ANN doesn't carry the most news and ANN isn't the only one that allows for usercomments. And it still manage to be one of the most popular Amiga sites, if not the most. Could it be it's openness? Registration and moderation could easily turn ANN into another silent Amiga.org site.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 119 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 03-Jan-2002 15:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (Mike Veroukis):
There is a way, and its quite simple and therefore probably not entirely accurate. I dont know whether or not to post the sample C code here or not! :-)
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 120 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 03-Jan-2002 15:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (Dave):
Actually thinking about it would stop all those of us who are using NAT to connect several machines, proxy gateways and the like. Scrub that suggestion and offer of code.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 121 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mekanix on 03-Jan-2002 15:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Tony Barton):
Hmm, if you want to install BSD on Amiga you only have the choice of OpenBSD or NetBSD. Back when I toyed with BSD on my Amiga (3+ years ago) there wasn't really any difference between the 2. I don't know if that have changed and which one is better supported. But have a look on their homepages.
As for the GUI-part... if you intend on running it on a 040/060 I'd recommend you stay away from KDE and GNOME though you might get a barrable performance on a 060 and 64+ MB RAM. Try GnuSTEP, BlackBox or IceWM for WindowManagers/DesktopEnvironment. But without KDE/GNOME you'll end up doing a lot of manual configuration and reading of man-pages.
Good luck! ;)
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 122 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 03-Jan-2002 16:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (smithy):
For calendars, the stars and the Solar System make good time keeping
devices. All you need is marks to line things up against and some form
of writing for keeping records.
For times of less than a day, the Romans used water clocks, which are
not very accurate.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 123 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 03-Jan-2002 16:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Dave):
>Most dialup accounts are done through dynamic IP allocation yes, that is
>partly why the mechanism is impractical. You would have to ban a complete
>regular expression.
The solution isn't that hard. Contact the ISp in question, present them with the offense, the evidence (URL to a hacked or abused web site), the IP address and the time it happened. WIth this info they should be able to quite easily determine who it was and close down that account. If not, threaten to ban their entire ISP.
I would suggest that the Amiga web masters join forces in the fight against hackers. They must work together and share info on banned IP addresses or ISPs or IP ranges. If they go it alone it will be very tough.
- Mike
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 124 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jan-2002 16:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (smithy):
>As for the calendar system, I don't think anybody started keeping time until
>the year 500. And rather interestingly, by our modern calendar system, King
>Herod (from the Christmas story) wasn't born until the year 30AD!
>All I am saying is that the modern calendar system can only be moderately
>accuracte for 1500 years at the most, before that they didn't even have
>timekeeping devices, Issac Newton (1500ish) used his own heartbeat when he
>discovered the laws of motion!
Dude, I don't know what kind of drugs you are on or where you are getting your
information, but people have been keeping time as best as anyone knows for
5000 to 6000 years! The ancient Chinese had incense clocks where the incence
would burn weighted strings at a specific interval, the ancients had sundials
and many other types of timekeeping devices including water clocks, etc. All
these were very common in ancient times.
Perhaps you should lay off the dope, stop spouting your foolish nonsense
and visit this link: http://physics.nist.gov/GenInt/Time/early.html
Here you find that people have been keeping time for thousands of years,
contrary to the utter nonsense that you have posted here. If you got this information
from another human, and it isn't something that came to you in a drug induced
stupor, you should kick the living shit out of them! :0 Everything you have
posted here and I mean everything is utter nonsense and an embarrasment!
All I'm saying is get a grip before you hurt yourself!!!
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 125 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Ben on 03-Jan-2002 16:33 GMT
In the short term more moderators on ANN.lu isnt going to cost you anything...
Keep up the good work - maybe you could also setup www.mnn.lu (for MorphOS) and maybe the people posting useless guff will use that to graffiti on instead... :)
Give 'em enought rope and they will hang themselves...
As I said I think more mods should be the quickest way forward.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 126 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by William F. Maddock on 03-Jan-2002 17:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (Dave):
Well, why not download it and read it. Then we can see how accurately you exposite it. People who do not know the Lord are not equiped to understand Him. Since I am mostly writing to Him I wouldn't expect a non-believer to understand what's being written. There's nothing patronizing about it. It's just true.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 127 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by William F. Maddock on 03-Jan-2002 17:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (THE Believer):
I expect I'll be pushing offal with a broom. But I'll *be* there! That's what counts in the end. :)
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 128 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by William F. Maddock on 03-Jan-2002 17:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (Anonymous):
Actually, there *was* some truth in what he said. Constantine *did* corrupt the early Christian church. Not quite in the way claimed, though. He is in large part responsible for the "diefication" of saints, known more widely as canonization. I call it deification because of the habit of Roman Catholics to pray to those that they know are not God. The Bible, in Exodus Chapter 20 expressly forbids this type of practice, yet they do it anyway. There are a lot of things wrong with the modern Christian church. If there weren't we wouldn't have so many denominations. The main thing to remember is that we, too, are human, and therefore fallible; and that the *only* one we should be praying to (as Christians) is the Lord Himself.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 129 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 03-Jan-2002 17:21 GMT
Please Christian continue with ANN.
Add moderators and/or disable unmoderated/anonymous posting.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 130 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by John Roberts on 03-Jan-2002 17:40 GMT
Abusive language and views as well as rumour mongering are a real pain.
It's like people are trying to destroy Amiga.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 131 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 03-Jan-2002 17:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (William F. Maddock):
Thanks for the bible lesson, but this is AMIGA NETWORK NEWS. :-) Do you realize how easy it is to create a massive flame war over religion?!? Do we really need this right now??? Do we really need religious statements or arguments on these forums? No I don't think so (although I'd forgive you in some extraordinary events like the 2nd coming of Christ, that would be something worth mentioning, but that's about it :-).
- Mike
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 132 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Perver on 03-Jan-2002 18:32 GMT
Hi Christian, and everyone else :)
I would just like add my comments to what has already been posted above, to say that the Amiga community needs sites like this, and like Amiga.org and Amiga-News.de, it's what helps hold us together. Amiga programmers and Amiga users benefit from you just as much as you benefit from us, I think we all realize that, don't give up, because that's what whoever is committing these 'attacks' wants. Like what has been said before, I have never seen anything like this before, and would comply with whatever it takes to stop it, because it is harming all of us. Whoever it is certainly isn't doing their cause any benefits by what they are doing, if they have one.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 133 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Sven Harvey on 03-Jan-2002 20:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Mikey C):
I agree with Mikey C... To everyone out there reading this it is quite clear that the worldwide Amiga community is under siege - by whom seems unknown at this time, but giving in won't help. We need ANN, we need Amiga.org, we need Amiga-news.de we need all the true Amiga sites, and these bastards cannot be allowed to win. However I know how difficult it can be. Hang in there people, the light at the end of the tunnel may yet be in sight...
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 134 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 03-Jan-2002 21:44 GMT
The Miami Dolphins are going to the Super Bowl this year! They are going to beat the
lowly Buffalo Bills and New England is going to lose to the Carolina Panthers. That
means the Dolhins will have a bye-week and homefield advantage for the conference
playoff game.
Oops is this ANN? i guess I'm off topic, but then again so are alot of other posts
in here;-)
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 135 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Smithy on 03-Jan-2002 21:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (William F. Maddock):
>Actually, there *was* some truth in what he said. Constantine *did* corrupt
I wouldn't call it "corrupt". The Christian church of that time was not even remotely like what we have today. Equally, Paganism of that time is nothing like today's Paganism. The two were jointly merged and called Christianity.
Another interesting fact is that Christmas was originally a Pagan festival. The original Christians had a festival to celebrate the birth of Christ at another time of the year - however, the two festivals were merged! The result was to celebrate the birth of Christ, at the time of year when the Pagan festival was! Constantine had to appease the millions of Pagans in the Empire so he couldn't simply foist Christianity on everyone, so he decided to take 50% of both religions and join them together.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 136 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 03-Jan-2002 21:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (redrumloa):
>Oops is this ANN? i guess I'm off topic, but then again so are alot of other
>posts in here;-)
Yeah, you're right.
PAGANISM RULES AND THE DOLPHINES SUCK! ;-)
- Mike
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 137 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by syzygy on 03-Jan-2002 22:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (Anonymous):
Hmmm... lots of talk about measuring time and calendars. Not exactly amiga, but...
sundials are not exactly accurate in the sense most people today would mean. They give daily solar time (you are aware that the sun rises and sets at different times on different days?). And of course is worthless at night.
And the dating system (in terms of having accurate dates) in the west goes back to 311 BCE (Before Current Era, for those unaware of history and dating systems) with the Selucid empire (successor to Alexander the great in the Levant if memory serves). Of course this is no protection from misreported dates, but any date back to 311 BCE (in the west) can be accurately converted.
syzygy
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 138 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Firebird^ on 04-Jan-2002 06:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (Mike Veroukis):
> However, since there are no credit cards in use here, there's little a hacker could actually steal from you on a site like this.
I was thinking more about keeping spam from my mailbox. ;)
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 139 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 04-Jan-2002 07:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 126 (William F. Maddock):
OK theres my second addition to my killfile, a "BCF" ( ;-) ) - a patronising egotistical one at that. You sound somewhat to the right of Ned Flanders and even more comical.
The one true lord is Jay Miner, didnt you know what? Ill hit you with my unbeliever stick! LART LART LART!
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 140 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 04-Jan-2002 08:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (William F. Maddock):
Dont assume everyone who speaks English is Christian, that is bigotry in the extreme.
Because I found your laughable comments about non believers not being able to understand I printed out your words ( comments and claptrap ) and sought some other opinions, being careful not to state my opinion of the material first.
My partner, who is Jewish of which your religion is just a minor schism also thinks you are a patronising twerp aswell and that anyone with a reading age of over 12 could understand it.
I also ran it past two people at work who are devout Christians who said that your comments made them feel uncomfortable and smacked of dangerous fanaticism. To quote: "That is the wrong way of going about spreading the message of Jesus, it just puts people off and sounds very much like the kind of non inclusive claptrap that Jesus preached against". By devout I mean they kneel down and work and pray to their lord, lead prayer meetings et al.
So, its not just athiests, eh? Sure its a small sample but hey dont let facts get in the way of rabid spittle. I recommend a nice dose of "The Life Of Brian" to bring you back onto the same planet to return you to being a "good neighbour".
You see this is another reason why I would love to have a server side killfile, Id add you to it because whilst I think you have the right to spout turgid guff, I have the right not to listen to it and so do others.
Dave.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 141 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 04-Jan-2002 08:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (William F. Maddock):
William, what a REALLY dumb thing to post. So now you have Athiests, Jews, moderate Christians, Roman Catholics and probably many many others wanting to give you a black eye.
I suggest you have a very long consultation with your Vicar or even Bishop to check whether or not you are taking the right approach. You have to apply the sword of truth to yourself, you are human and can err. You erred.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 142 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 04-Jan-2002 08:33 GMT
Whilst technicalities and resource will limit what Christian can do, there seems to be some opinion issues as to what would be acceptable. How about putting the alternatives in a poll, replacing the how many amiga fairs will you attend in 2001?
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 143 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Amigo on 04-Jan-2002 09:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 140 (Dave):
>>>Dont assume everyone who speaks English is Christian, that is bigotry in the extreme.
if he actually did imply that its not really bigotry but ignorance.
>>>Because I found your laughable comments about non believers not being able to understand I printed out your words ( comments and claptrap ) and sought some other opinions, being careful not to state my opinion of the material first.
dont you ever have ideas which you think some others won't understand? I dont think he means understand what is written technically, but understand where he is coming from. Sometimes we as people assume too much and fill in the blanks of what we don't get with recessive and defensive ideas and make it what we want it to be.
>>>My partner, who is Jewish of which your religion is just a minor schism also thinks you are a patronising twerp aswell and that anyone with a reading age of over 12 could understand it.
Maybe thats what he genuinely thought, or maybe his brain went into defense mode because he's Jewish. No matter how subtly and politely you put things to someone if they don't like what they hear to them it seems as if YOUR YELLING RIGHT IN THEIR FACE.
>>>I also ran it past two people at work who are devout Christians who said that your comments made them feel uncomfortable and smacked of dangerous fanaticism. To quote: "That is the wrong way of going about spreading the message of Jesus, it just puts people off and sounds very much like the kind of non inclusive claptrap that Jesus preached against". By devout I mean they kneel down and work and pray to their lord, lead prayer meetings et al.
That's true. I also think William should be more subtle if he's going to bring it up, anyway I don't really see the need to bring up religion or politics or any kinds of social topics when it has nothing to really do with the topic at hand. But i will say this, people are more likely to badmouth a Christian than any other person of another faith, there are some people out there that, man, they freak me out. Scientology anyone?
>>>So, its not just athiests, eh? Sure its a small sample but hey dont let facts get in the way of rabid spittle. I recommend a nice dose of "The Life Of Brian" to bring you back onto the same planet to return you to being a "good neighbour".
Damn he's not being THAT bad and at least he's not the arrogant, pompous git I dealt with in another news post. Now there's someone with a rock for a head.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 144 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 04-Jan-2002 09:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 141 (Dave):
>William, what a REALLY dumb thing to post. So now you have Athiests, Jews,
>moderate Christians, Roman Catholics and probably many many others wanting to
>give you a black eye.
Calm down Dave! I don't think there was anything in William's posts that was offensive. I find religion a fascinating thing, and I find that many followers of the minority religions (Wiccans, Athiests (yes, it IS a religion!)) often have a bone to pig with Christians just for the sake of it. I call it the Microsoft syndrome. Everybody hates that which is bigger, more powerful, further reaching and more successful than they are.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 145 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 04-Jan-2002 09:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 144 (smithy):
Ok Smithy, maybe I read far too much into what he was saying. This is why I checked with a few others before going off on one. Its possible they detected I was annoyed with what I had printed out - its difficult to say "can you give me your opinion on this" without passing messages through your body language. The messages I got were:
1. Non believers or non Christians could not possibly understand dialogue between a believer and their god.
2. Roman Catholics are breaking the tenets of the faith by instituting saints.
3. Christianity is the one true faith.
I guess I must have the wrong message. And for the poster above you, my partner is female, which is why I used "she".
Im happy to think I erred on this occasion but I think William needs to be very very careful about externalising religious views.
Thanks smithy.
Regards
Dave.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 146 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 04-Jan-2002 09:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 145 (Dave):
Ahhh s**t!
Must have control-z'd and lost the "she" part ( or just typed too slowly for my thoughts ) but my partner (female) is Jewish and totally wonderful. We rarely discuss religion or Palestine/Isreal because it gets far too heated.
Dave.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 147 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Amigo on 04-Jan-2002 11:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 146 (Dave):
>>> And for the poster above you, my partner is female, which is why I used "she".
oh bite my tongue
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 148 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by THE Believer on 04-Jan-2002 13:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 147 (Amigo):
Wow. didnt that post start something !! Ok.. End result...rational (is that the right word?) Thinking.
Good commments from all. One thing though. We shouldnt assume someone is "Having a Go" at us just because they have a different "Slant" on things.
I do wish ,However, that I could read Hebrew. Most of my learning(?) comes from the Schofield Reference Bible, Which is an excellent Bible but it still is a K.James Version and as such will have his "Slant" on the subject.
Speaking of subjects. Time to get back on track, dont you think?
(Lets hope Jay is furthering our cause in that Great Forum in the sky)
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 149 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by William F. Maddock on 04-Jan-2002 13:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (redrumloa):
Just one problem, buddy:
Da Rams, baby! Da RAMS!!! ='D
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 150 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by William F. Maddock on 04-Jan-2002 13:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Smithy):
The name "Christians" was first used to identify the followers of Christ by the citizens of Corinth, in the first century AD. While it is true that December 25th used to be a pagan festival, the early Christians (pre-Constantine) didn't celebrate the *birth* of Christ at all, but his resurrection. I cannot and will not argue with Constantine polluting the Christian religion with concepts and rituals akin to Roman mythology (paganism) because it is true. He did. But Chrisitanity itself did exist before that---named as Christianity---and was resurrected, beginning with the Protestant Reformation. Getting back to Christmas, though, Christmas season of 2000 found me sitting in a friend's Lutheran church awaiting their Christmas program, and while I was waiting I decided to while away the time looking through the pew Bibles (NIV). I found a very interesting passage, the last paragraph of Jeremiah. I won't recount it here. If you're interested, you can look it up. ;)
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