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[Rant] Trust?ANN.lu
Posted on 03-Mar-2003 03:17 GMT by Atheist234 comments
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There are two sources of hardware to the continuation of the Amiga legacy. Neither side trusts each other, and accusations are flying in both directions. Both companies are in danger of folding, and I am worried... ...worried that, mischief makers on both sides are going to sabotage the other.

Spreading rumors/lies is one thing. If a prospective buyer reads information found all over the internet and asks people their opinions, this will cause minimal damage, and at least they will hopefully buy one of the two systems.

I strongly feel that, in the face of this animosity, it will not be past some users to purchase a system from the side they dislike, damage the board and return it, requesting a refund, having never intended to own it in the first place. I think both sides should agree that any purchaser of either product, sign a form waiving their right to return a board and get a refund. They could use the same form, just it would only have their companies name on it. This must waive actions through the credit card company also, if so purchased.

I am being totally neutral in that it IS in BOTH companies best interests.

We are all grown ups. We KNOW what each product represents. Make a choice, and stick with it, or don't buy one.

This is a most unusal action to be taken, but this is a unique situation, is it not? Again I stress, neither company can afford even 1 person harassing them in such a manner. It costs money and time, bottom line, malicious damage. How can a customer be sued on such a basis?

I have no problem signing such a form as I have chosen a side and am an adult, make choices, and stand by them.

Thierry Predavec, Vancouver, Canada

Trust? : Comment 1 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by CodeSmith on 03-Mar-2003 03:19 GMT
Slight problem:

1) how many 1337 d00dz are now saying "hey, that's a neat idea!"
2) although I trust both bplan and eyetech are doing their best to provide working hardware, I have no doubts that some duds are going to make it through. I'd prefer to have a board with a guarantee.
Trust? : Comment 2 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 03-Mar-2003 03:24 GMT
Uhhh, excuse me? Who in their right mind would want to waiver their guarantee? I certainly wouldn't, not even for a no.2 pencil .. when I buy something I expect it to be working damnit!

This silly idea will only be damaging customers...


- CISC
Trust? : Comment 3 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Kelly Samel on 03-Mar-2003 03:49 GMT
I don't even know why posts like this are
allowed. People are getting pretty paranoid
I guess... ;)
Trust? : Comment 4 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 05:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
yo, dimwit. He's not talking about waiving anything. The boards are all guaranteed for a specified time period and will be replaced if nonfuncional within that time period. It's just the the guarantee is only good as long as the company is in business.
Trust? : Comment 5 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 03-Mar-2003 06:54 GMT
"Both companies are in danger of folding"

I assume you mean Amiga and Genesi, and I just have to say if that is the case
then that's complete bullcrap.

Genesi no more relies on the sales of the Pegasos* than Amiga relies on the sales of Doritos.

Amiga haven't declared so much as a cent of new funding in almost 2 years,
which isn't necessary for them to do, but they sure made a fuss about it the
last 20 times they had a settop deal with some nobody manufacturer.

Differences: Plexuscom aren't nobody, neither is the "secret" DTV company (even
I was surprised by that one), neither are the other companies Genesi may be
talking with and acquiring funding. And the money is already in the bank.

Neko



* (although they're a nice cash bulker, nearly a quarter of a million dollars
in sales in totaly once they're all gone)
Trust? : Comment 6 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 03-Mar-2003 06:57 GMT
We are talking about personal and company ethics here. There are plenty of things I would not do. Like anonymously attacking others on ann.lu, nor would I order/return some unneeded stuff from company I don't like/trust. I may be a bit loudmouthed at times and anony some one-tarck minded indivdials but I do have some standards. Unfortunately... well.. let's just politely say your idea don't work :)
Trust? : Comment 7 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 03-Mar-2003 07:25 GMT
"Both companies are in danger of folding, and I am worried..."

I don't see any likelihood of Eyetech folding. The business has been going for twenty years and even if Amiga sales vanished, they have other ways of earning a living.
Trust? : Comment 8 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 03-Mar-2003 07:25 GMT
"We are all grown ups."

Not on ANN, we're not. ;-)
Trust? : Comment 9 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 03-Mar-2003 07:49 GMT
:) the threads of late...... Ok who's passing out them blue stupid pills?

from newsletter hype --- it's Big I tell you B I G....

To a Web site moving to what appears to be the other side of twilite

to T-shirts for the kings new wardrobe...

To builtin blinders for the sheep and coupons that don't exist cept on some web page.

To PPC hardware that should better run PPC linux as a backup plan... but nothing ready for the general public...

And lawsuits ......Paranoid????

Now what could possibly be causing that?

<shaking me head>

somehow paranoid bush words come to mind.... war will bring peace.....<rollseyes>

In the mean time linux has indirectly caused MS to expose a court room lie about opening the source of windodow up would cause issues with national security.... but hey China gets to see it......

Hmmm if you take blue stupid pills you support bad things....
Trust? : Comment 10 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by stefkos on 03-Mar-2003 08:23 GMT
Stop talking and look who was made more for Amiga.
This is Genesi and people who work for them!
Trust? : Comment 11 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 09:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Don Cox):
yeah, more ghey porn please! ;;;;;;)
Trust? : Comment 12 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 03-Mar-2003 10:19 GMT
IMO you are being unrealistic in thinking that some hater is going to buy a
board from "the other camp" just to intentionally damage and return it. There
are some losers out there making a long term hobby of anonymous attack posts
in public discussion forums like ANN, but these are the kind of twits who
can't raise $25 to go out on a date, much less the money required to invest in
a new computer system. I don't think any consumer should waive his rights by
signing a special "I agree not to return this under any circumstances" form.

Now, trust. When I bought my Pegasos a year ago (an early Betatester 1) I was
not able to use it with my rather old monitors (I think this was actually a
Radeon 7000 issue as opposed to a Pegasos issue). We didn't know exactly what
the problem was, and Genesi sent me a second hard-drive with new MorphOS
installation. They didn't demand that I return anything first; they just tried
to get me up and running. So this built trust. I generally have found that
Genesi does what they say they will do, and they demonstrate their commitment
to the community by going to all the user conventions.

I am not going to waste a lot of time criticizing the "other camp" but the
coupon/T-shirt promotion speaks for itself, as did the "on schedule and
rockin'" promotion, and I would even go so far as to say that when Alan
Redhouse of Eyetech was hawking Amiga Ones before Christmas by saying OS4
would be out before Christmas or "early next year at the latest" he knew
darn well the odds were against that.

But now I am intruding on your rant with my own. ;) See ya!
Trust? : Comment 13 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Colin on 03-Mar-2003 10:31 GMT
TRUST?

Trust Amiga inc? NO
Trust Eyetech? NO
Trust Genesi? NO
Trust Hyperion? NO

You can not trust any company or persons in the Amiga community.

With the childish antics by Bill & Ben i have decided not to purchase either a Pegasos or AmigaONE because i have no faith in any company who acts so amateurism and unprofessional.
Trust? : Comment 14 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Colin on 03-Mar-2003 10:32 GMT
TRUST?

Trust Amiga inc? NO
Trust Eyetech? NO
Trust Genesi? NO
Trust Hyperion? NO

You can not trust any company or persons in the Amiga community.

With the childish antics by Bill & Ben i have decided not to purchase either a Pegasos or AmigaONE because i have no faith in any company who acts so amateurish and unprofessional.
Trust? : Comment 15 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Colin on 03-Mar-2003 10:32 GMT
TRUST?

Trust Amiga inc? NO
Trust Eyetech? NO
Trust Genesi? NO
Trust Hyperion? NO

You can not trust any company or persons in the Amiga community.

With the childish antics by Bill & Ben i have decided not to purchase either a Pegasos or AmigaONE because i have no faith in any company who acts so amateurish and unprofessional.
Trust? : Comment 16 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Colin on 03-Mar-2003 10:32 GMT
TRUST?

Trust Amiga inc? NO
Trust Eyetech? NO
Trust Genesi? NO
Trust Hyperion? NO

You can not trust any company or persons in the Amiga community.

With the childish antics by Bill & Ben i have decided not to purchase either a Pegasos or AmigaONE because i have no faith in any company who acts so amateurish and unprofessional.
Trust? : Comment 17 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Andy on 03-Mar-2003 13:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Colin):
Well you seems so adult and self motivated heh! So... get out form here and buy PC or Mac for $2000 :))) and do not post such bullshit anymore.
Trust? : Comment 18 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 13:58 GMT
I guess this is different in different countries, but I just can't think of a single reason why any company would give a refund to someone just because they changed their minds? Is this really how it works in some countries? Then all customers who actually buy what they want will have to pay for the additional costs related to all those who change their minds and return their purchases! That's just plain stupid.

A refund should only be given if:

a) The wrong product was delivered.
b) The company claimed it would work with your setup but didn't.

If the product is broken, and it's not due to the owner messing with it, then it should be repaired or replaced. If the owner have caused the problems himself he should have to pay for the repair himself!
Trust? : Comment 19 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Hooligan/DCS on 03-Mar-2003 14:00 GMT
TRUST?

Trust Amiga inc? NO
Trust Eyetech? YES ,with a little bit bias
Trust Genesi? YES
Trust Hyperion? YES
Trust? : Comment 20 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Colin on 03-Mar-2003 14:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Andy):
Grow up child.

Also where do you get your bullshit $2000 price from? nobody with a brain would pay two grand for a Mac or x86 box for home use.
Trust? : Comment 21 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Trust on 03-Mar-2003 15:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Hooligan/DCS):
>Trust Genesi? YES

After they sued Amiga over a contract they never intended to satisfy (they've admited that they have no interest in DE--and Amiga could find old posts to prove this).
It is not about MorphOs being a bad product, it is about Genesi's conduct, and not enough people have called them on it.
Trust? : Comment 22 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 03-Mar-2003 15:38 GMT
Sorry but who cares? Never the twain my friend and it has been that for a
long...... time.
Trust? : Comment 23 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Hooligan/DCS on 03-Mar-2003 16:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Trust):
Well thats really between Amiga, Genesi and the judge. Doesn't lower my trust in what they are doing, which, so far is more than the "opposite".
Why can't you look at it like this: IF Genesi wins Amiga in courtroom, isn't Amiga even less to be trusted?
Of course it goes the other way aswell.
Trust? : Comment 24 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by rafo on 03-Mar-2003 16:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
Then you will understand why french dealers don't buy or only buy in
very slight quantities pegasos computers (same for A1) because whether
the manufacturer is still in business or not doesn't matter : by
the french law, the reseller still has to provide support and
warranty.
Trust? : Comment 25 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne Hunt on 03-Mar-2003 16:35 GMT
You really have to boil through all the emotional and religious bullspit. When selecting a system or something to purchase, you have to decide

1) What do YOU want? Be precise as possible.
2) Who has it available when you are ready to purchase it?
3) How much you are willing to commit to purchasing it.

Nothing else matters. It never has. "FUD" is non-existent and is a term used too-often by this community because they don't "like" one company or the other. This community, at least the vocal ones have become feral in defense of their hobby and personal preferences. Most "FUD" is actually marketeering. Nothing more, nothing less.

Wayne Hunt
Amiga.org
Trust? : Comment 26 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Hooligan/DCS on 03-Mar-2003 16:43 GMT
Watching a game.. having a fud
Trust? : Comment 27 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 03-Mar-2003 17:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (rafo):
Bullshit.
French dealers sell what is available: Pegasos with MorphOS.
They do not sell the AmigaOne yet because they are Amiga specialists, not Linux specialists.
The warranty offered so far on the Pegasos is excelent.

I'am amazed that people are still talking like that wihtout having any clue.
Trust? : Comment 28 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 03-Mar-2003 21:26 GMT
Thierry,

A person with good eyes and experience can tell the difference between a manufacturing defect and a board that has been tampered with.

I don't like this attitude some people have about taking SIDES or belonging to a certain *camp*. To me this just comes across as prejudice.

I prefer to not take sides. I prefer not to belong to a CAMP. I'm open to BOTH!

If the AmigaONE solution were viable, I wouldn't have a problem buying one. If Pegasos systems were available I wouldn't have a problem buying one.
Trust? : Comment 29 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X: on 03-Mar-2003 21:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Colin):
$2000 PC???

HP Media Center PC featuring Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition:
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10021798&newdeptid=1&logon=&langid=EN&dept=1&WLBS=fs%2Dweb6

This one costs $2700.

APPLE Mac:
http://www.apple.com/ca/powermac/
PowerMac dual G4 $3200.00
Trust? : Comment 30 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Mar-2003 21:59 GMT
I priced out a near top of the line Athlon system, NForce2 MB, GF4Ti4200(I think), 512MB DDR PC3200 ram, 6 channel sound, drives, case, PSU, Mouse (Logitech MX700=$70) KB, etc etc etc... for about 1500. A far more powerful system than any PPC "Amiga" system.

It's sad, Amiga's used to be INEXPENSIVE (for thier power) computers. Now they are way over the top.
Trust? : Comment 31 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 03-Mar-2003 22:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Trust):
You are forgetting that AmigaDE has developed for it ACM (Amiga Component Model) and an advanced audio API that neither AmigaOS4 nor MorphOS has.

Nothing burns me more to hear that ACM was completed.. but AmigaOS4 does not feature it. Same for the Audio API.

:(
Trust? : Comment 32 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 04-Mar-2003 11:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Darth_X):
not yet ...
Trust? : Comment 33 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 06-Mar-2003 10:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Darth_X):
"You are forgetting that AmigaDE has developed for it ACM (Amiga Component Model) and an advanced audio API that neither AmigaOS4 nor MorphOS has.

Nothing burns me more to hear that ACM was completed.. but AmigaOS4 does not feature it. "

What advantages does the ACM have over current standards such as CORBA ?
Trust? : Comment 34 of 34ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 08-Mar-2003 03:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Don Cox):
Beats me, which is one of the complaints I had on Amiga, inc ages ago. "Why make your own object standard when there's COM/CORBA?"

But now that they have this standard, why don't they use it? Seems like wasted work.
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