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[Web] Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty.ANN.lu
Posted on 24-Sep-2003 03:08 GMT by TRAPOSOFT120 comments
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www.amiga.org story by James H. Russell - AO Staff Writer/Editor
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 1 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 02:07 GMT
I don't know if "again" is the right word.... since the time Commodore started it's downfall I think the word is "still".
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 2 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by krize on 24-Sep-2003 04:34 GMT
What if Amiga Inc. goes bancrupt, what about the Amiga name and the AmigaOs, will it be sold to the highest bidder ? How can anyone be sure that Hyperion or Eyetech may continue using the Amiga name (or developing AmigaOs??)?

If anyone can answer these questions please, I dont want this to happen :( (I even dont want to think about it!!!!)
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 3 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 04:46 GMT
Oh my... Now that was a nice summary of what's been trolling on ANN.lu for the last couple of months. Thank you Thendic/Genesi employees for supporting this article with both court documents of an unsolved case and not least webhosting. It is very kind of you to make sure everyone becomes aware of your side of the story. The only thing I would like to add is that people consider the source and realize that this is just one side of the story rather than "the whole truth and nothing but the truth". Furthermore, if they would even as much as care about the Amiga intellectual property and brand, why write an article that sums up every FUD mungoring fact they can find about it's owners and spread it some more?

I'm sorry but in my mind, Amiga.org just officially labeled themselves as anti- Amiga Inc. & Co conspiracists. I find it very unproffesional to spread the plaintiff's claims and theories from a still yet to be settled court case in public. How about waiting with making any conclusions about this and let the parties involved solve this issue in court first? Furthermore, your theories that this would put AmigaOS4 and the AmigaOne in jeopardy really wasn't called for. You know very well that the contracts was designed to protect the continuation of these products even in case of insolvency of one or more parties.

It is quite obvious that this court case is nothing but a PR stunt by Genesi to begin with. The plaintiffs doesn't even bother with supporting their original claim "breach of contract" but focus more on finding as much dirt about the defendant as they can possibly find. I recommend that people take this article with a big truckload of salt and then simply wait for the court ruling, which probably won't be until some time next year. Until then; AmigaOS4 now boots on the AmigaOne! =)
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 4 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 04:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (krize):
Who cares? Hyperion could simply rename it worst case scenario. What's the difference what name it's called as long as it runs the software you want it to?
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 5 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 04:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (samface):
> I'm sorry but in my mind, (snip)

You're right, it's in your mind, oh, and apology accepted :D
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 6 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 04:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (T_Bone):
>You're right, it's in your mind <snip>

Just like that opinion is in your mind. Your point beeing?
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 7 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 05:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (samface):
Opinion? You SAID it's in your mind, you even apologised for it.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 8 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 24-Sep-2003 05:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (T_Bone):
SmurphOS ? :)
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 9 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by krize on 24-Sep-2003 05:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (T_Bone):
yes, but if someone buys the Amiga name and their patents, will Hyperion be allowed to continue using it (im thinking arexx,workbench and so on) ?????

I dont see why amiga.org is anti amiga-inc .. Get over this crap, Its so stupid to only listen to one side, please think for yourself ...
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 10 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 05:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (hooligan/dcs):
Amigos!
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 11 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 05:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (krize):
> I dont see why amiga.org is anti amiga-inc

It's not. That editorial is completely accurate. You can be a fan of something even though you acknowledge the trouble they're in. That's just reality. Pretending the trouble isn't there, well, that's not reality.

Were all the people who bought the Deathbed Vigil, and who got mad at Commodore anti-Amiga too? I highly doubt it. Isn't the reason they were mad was that they love the Amiga and hated the people and the actions that led to it's demise?

Amiga Inc is not in a good way right now, and to blame it on a website is just stupid.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 12 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 05:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (T_Bone):
Stop playing games, T_bone. I said "In my mind", you somehow felt a need to underline the fact that it was in my mind. I wondered what your point is with doing so since I think it was made clear from the beginning that it is in my mind and that it really doesn't need to be repeated.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 13 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 05:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (T_Bone):
Thank you for repeating the contents of the article. </sarcasm>

I'm sorry but you're really starting to sound like an echo today, T_bone.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 14 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 05:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (samface):
> Stop playing games, T_bone. I said "In my mind", you somehow felt a need to
> underline the fact that it was in my mind.

Like I said, it's all in your mind. Hell, you were the one who apologised for it, not me :D
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 15 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by kriz on 24-Sep-2003 05:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (samface):
Then why do you repeat it ??? Can you please think for yourself for one time, or cant you think ?????? You think Amiga Inc. is great, you think they are doing great now, you think they have done a great job these years ?? If you ask me:Great way of destroying the amiga name ... :(
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 16 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 05:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (samface):
> I'm sorry but you're really starting to sound like an echo today, T_bone.

Me? Echo? YOU are the one who keeps saying he's sorry. Geesh, apology accepted again :D
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 17 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 05:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (T_Bone):
>Amiga Inc is not in a good way right now, and to blame it on a website is just
>stupid.

Who blamed any of the issues regarding Amiga Inc. and this court case on any website? I didn't. Although, I do blame Amiga.org for spreading the plaintiff's theories and accusations in this yet to be settled court case, which of course is an entirely different thing.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 18 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 05:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (T_Bone):
A repetition of what you feel needs to be repeated is not an answer to why you think it needs to be repeated.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 19 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 05:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (samface):
> Who blamed any of the issues regarding Amiga Inc. and this court case on any
> website? I didn't.

Maybe that's why I wasn't replying to you? You're losing track of the thread already, and we're not even at 20 posts yet! :D

> Although, I do blame Amiga.org for spreading the plaintiff's theories and
> accusations in this yet to be settled court case, which of course is an entirely
> different thing.

Oh, you mean it's wrong for them to mention the fact Amiga is in court? Where do you live, China? East Europe? (The wall is DOWN now, don't you know?)
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 20 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 05:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (samface):
> A repetition of what you feel needs to be repeated is not an answer to why you
> think it needs to be repeated.

And yet you keep repeating yourself, without answering.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 21 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 05:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (kriz):
Exactly how am I supposed to ask my question without stating the thing I'm questioning? Furthermore, if anyone is trying to bring down "the name", then it is Genesi and certain (as in not all) Genesi supporters.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 22 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by krize on 24-Sep-2003 05:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (samface):
please, dont destroy this thread too with your paranoid thinking ....

lets discuss amiga.inc`s situation plz ....
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 23 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 05:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (T_Bone):
Huh? What am I supposed to answer? No matter how hard I look at the post I replied to, I don't seem to find any question mark. All I can see is your repeated *statement* (as in not a question) that "it's all in my mind". I'd say YOU are the one avoiding questions. Like, why do you feel this need to repeat that it's in my mind when I already made that perfectly clear from the beginning?
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 24 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 05:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (samface):
> Exactly how am I supposed to ask my question without stating the thing I'm
> questioning?

Exactly, so why are you being so hard on yourself for repeating things when you then claim you have to? Geeze, no wonder you keep apologising!

As for your statement regarding Amiga.org spreading complaints in an unresolved court case, that's the pot calling the kettle black.

Where were you when Amiga Inc were "spreading complainta in an unresolved court case" when they ;

1) Accused genesi of stealing code?

2) Accused H&P of not paying for OS3.9

3) Accused an unnamed party of stealing a warehouse full of hardware?

4) Accused an unnamed party of needing to "Get legal or be shut down?"

Amiga Inc have *routinely* spread complaints in unresolved cases, and yet you've ignored this little fact untill someone you chose not to like has done it. You're pushing your agenda Samface, it's as clear as the nose on your face.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 25 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Sep-2003 05:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (samface):
James Russel has been anti-Amiga Inc for some time. I would guess that someone else
toned down his article a bit before it was "published".

Still, Samface is right, even though the article contains innaccuracies and lack
of care on a sensitive subject ( they ARE insolvent James - just not BANKRUPT )
it is just an excuse to recycle the same old fluff that has been on here, moobunny
and even Amiga.org for the nth time.

Propaganda does not have to be untrue.

Still, Im not going back to Amiga.org anymore now - that place is dead and boring.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 26 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 05:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (samface):
> Like, why do you feel this need to repeat that it's in my mind when I already
> made that perfectly clear from the beginning?

Because I was agreeing with you, and accepting your apology. Man are you paranoid!
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 27 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 05:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Anonymous):
> Propaganda does not have to be untrue.

Neither does FUD for that matter.

I tried explaining that to Samface one day using an analogy about my neighbors vinyl gutters. He insisted it wasn't true.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 28 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 05:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (krize):
>lets discuss amiga.inc`s situation plz ....

I know that this is what you want, but like I said before; why not let the parties involved solve this issue in court first? The "situation" you are refering to is not something you, I, or anyone else in here is in a position to judge. All you could ever achieve by discussing this further is yet more FUD and is not benefitial for anyone but those with spreading FUD as a part of their agenda. I don't think stating that one company would be insolvent in public before the actual insolvency declaration has actually occured is going to help that company from ending up in insolvency. On the contrary, it could ironicly enough end up beeing the cause for the insolvency, you know.

In other words; stop these self destructive speculations and let time tell. Is that really too much to ask?
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 29 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 05:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (T_Bone):
I never claimed that FUD could not be factual, just that it is something that causes Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. It's as easy as that, really.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 30 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 05:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (samface):
Samface, Bill McEwen already testified in Federal Court Amiga Inc *is* insolvent. The editorial was just being "nice" when it said they were only "in danger of insolvency"
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 31 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Sep-2003 06:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (samface):
Oh jeez, like Amiga Incs situation hasn't been discussed to death already. If this article was posted just to reopen the debate and respin the old rhetoric it could not have been better designed.

Samface is right again ( although I don't want to make a habit of agreeing with him ) let the courts decide. If you want to have a debate about its situation then make sure you read all the threads on moobunny, amiga.org, ANN etc before coming back here and posting a line. Oh, and make sure it is an ORIGINAL thought.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 32 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 06:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (T_Bone):
Which is not the same thing as officially declaring insolvency, you know.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 33 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 06:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (samface):
> I never claimed that FUD could not be factual,

Yes you did, you even managed to bring up analogies of your own (remember the bycicle) but then you dissappeared when the venn diagram proved your analogy false, remember?

> just that it is something that causes Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. It's as easy
> as that, really.

You'd think so. Usually people only use the term FUD when it's misleading however. If you knew something is bad, or risky, you wouldn't consider the information FUD.

In Amiga Inc's case, they haven't delivered product, there is a clear risk in purchasing product from a company that doesn't deliver paid-for merchadise. You could call that FUD if you want, but that FUD label would be misleading in itself, given that there is genuine risk that you won't get product you paid for. Therefore calling that FUD, is in itself FUD.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 34 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 06:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (samface):
> Which is not the same thing as officially declaring insolvency, you know.

No, I don't know that. How would YOU declare insolvency, if not before a Federal Judge? Or are you saying Bill McEwen is being less than honest with the judge?
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 35 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 24-Sep-2003 06:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (T_Bone):
Oh m y g o s h. STOP IT! You're having me sick for as much I'm laughing!! :-)
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 36 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 24-Sep-2003 06:13 GMT
He said "trepedatious"

Hope that CK has an unlimited space hosting deal and does not pay per meg!
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 37 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 24-Sep-2003 06:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (samface):
Here we go again.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 38 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 06:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (T_Bone):
>Exactly, so why are you being so hard on yourself for repeating things when
>you then claim you have to? Geeze, no wonder you keep apologising!

I kept repeating my question because you kept avoiding answering it.

>As for your statement regarding Amiga.org spreading complaints in an
>unresolved court case, that's the pot calling the kettle black.

<snip>

No, because I am not Amiga Inc. and therefore cannot be placed on the same footing as "the pot".
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 39 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 06:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (samface):
>> Exactly, so why are you being so hard on yourself for repeating things when
>> you then claim you have to? Geeze, no wonder you keep apologising!

> I kept repeating my question because you kept avoiding answering it.

Just a minute ago, you said you were repeating it because it was necessary to ASK the question. Make up your mind!

>> As for your statement regarding Amiga.org spreading complaints in an
>> unresolved court case, that's the pot calling the kettle black.

> <snip>

> No, because I am not Amiga Inc. and therefore cannot be placed on the same
> footing as "the pot".

Yes you can, because that's exactly what you're doing with everyone else. Amiga.org, the editorial, they are ALL "the pot" in your eyes. You're still bein a hypocrite.

You're a hypocrite when you didn't critisize Amiga Inc for the same things you are now complaining about...

And you're a hypocrite when you place everyone else into "the pot" yet you yourself don't place yourself in the opposing "pot". You can't have it both ways Samface.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 40 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 06:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (T_Bone):
>you dissappeared when the venn diagram proved your analogy false, remember?

Nope. I remember stating that I've never heard of the Venn diagram before and also that I stayed in that thread for many posts after that. Furthermore, I remember when you claimed that even possibilities are facts, do *you* remember?
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 41 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 06:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (T_Bone):
I don't know, but here's how Phase5 did it:

http://www.amiga-news.de/archiv/0037.shtml

(scroll down for english translation)

Please not the use of the word "insolvency" and please realize what it means to the Amiga community when mentioned in relation to an Amiga company.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 42 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 06:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (samface):
>>you dissappeared when the venn diagram proved your analogy false, remember?

> Nope. I remember stating that I've never heard of the Venn diagram before

It's a method used in proving logic.

> and also that I stayed in that thread for many posts after that. Furthermore, I
> remember when you claimed that even possibilities are facts, do *you* remember?

No, you remember wrong. You claimed that "Claimin something might happen" is false.

I see we'll have to dig this one up, so here's the example you used ;

"If you ride your bicycle, you might fall and get hurt"

YOU said that sentence is logically "False", yet anyone here who knows anything about logic will agree that sentence is "True"
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 43 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 06:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (T_Bone):
Sigh... word games, completely irrational arguments, calling me a hypocrite... Whatever, T_Bone. Whatever...
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 44 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 06:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (samface):
> Please not the use of the word "insolvency" and please realize what it means to
> the Amiga community when mentioned in relation to an Amiga company.

Wow! You're getting slippery!!

First you were talking about "Official Insolvency" rather than just "Insolvency" now you're getting slippery and changing your arguement to the ambigious "what it means when mentioned in relation to an Amiga company"

Slippery slippery slippery!
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 45 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 06:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (T_Bone):
I'd say it's neither until it has been proven to be true or false. But then, everything is relative, let's not start this again, please?
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 46 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 06:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (T_Bone):
Not "official insolvency", T_Bone. I said "officially declared".
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 47 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 06:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (samface):
> Sigh... word games,

No, not games, "Logic"

> completely irrational arguments,

Apparently not by me, my Venns pass logic :D

> calling me a hypocrite... Whatever, T_Bone. Whatever..

When all else fails... "Whatever" :D
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 48 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 24-Sep-2003 06:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (T_Bone):
>When all else fails... "Whatever" :D

Which is one way of agreeing to disagree, or simply just dropping out because the discussion is not very constructive anymore.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 49 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 06:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (samface):
> I'd say it's neither until it has been proven to be true or false. But then,
> everything is relative, let's not start this again, please?

Wrong. The sentence is "Always True", weather or not you fall off your bike, and weather or not you get hurt. The sentence is alwas true.

It is always Logically true. It's a "logical Tautology."

You claimed a "logical tautology" is either false, or undefined. You're wrong both times, it's always true, always, no matter what the input conditions are.

It's not even worth argueing about. The logic math simply proves you are wrong, there's no "opinion" to even argue about.
Amiga Inc. is in danger of insolvency and the Amiga brand again faces uncertainty. : Comment 50 of 120ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 24-Sep-2003 06:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (samface):
> Not "official insolvency", T_Bone. I said "officially declared".

What's the difference between "Oficial Insolvency" and "Officially Declared Insolvency"?

(Talk about word games :D)
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