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[News] Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processorsANN.lu
Posted on 21-Jan-2004 19:44 GMT by Senex68 comments
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In the forum of Amiga.org, Stephen Smith of Austex Software ("Uropa2") presented his Amiga-inspired project Nueron/NuOS, a Coldfire computer with its own operating system. (A german translation can be found at amiga-news.de.)
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 1 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by top on 21-Jan-2004 19:25 GMT
I would like to know if an AmigaOS emulator on a flashrom is possible ?
to running AmigaOS 3.9 natively and why not AmigaOS4 ?

This could give another Amiga Computer for AmigaOS...

Really great project.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 2 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 21-Jan-2004 20:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (top):
Emulation ?
AROS would fit perfectly as it would allow to run almost all RTG 68k software.
AGA emulation would be great but this is another story ...
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 3 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Jan-2004 21:03 GMT
Censorship.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 4 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Jan-2004 21:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
You sound like martin clements.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 5 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 21-Jan-2004 21:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Christophe Decanini):
Exactly why we are talking to Stephen now :-)

AmigaOS can't runn on the coldfire due to differences from the 68k, but AROS can :-)
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 6 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 21-Jan-2004 21:49 GMT
I've often wondered if anyone's thought about implementing the Amiga custom chips (or equivalent functionality) on modern FPGA's, in a similar way to the C-One machine. That'd be an interesting project to try and also would allow other custom hardware to be added seamlessly, or even remove some of the limitations of the custom chipset (16-bit sound for example, or a unified memory architecture)
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 7 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 21-Jan-2004 21:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 ([JC]):
You biggest problems will be timing. but it certainly wouldn't be imposible :-)
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 8 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 21-Jan-2004 21:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Matt Parsons):
it'd be a fun project to try. maybe when i learn vhdl :)
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 9 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 21-Jan-2004 21:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 ([JC]):
Certainly a worthy cause. Good luck!
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 10 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 21-Jan-2004 22:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Matt Parsons):
Let me finish porting Divinity (proving to be a nightmare!), move house, build a workshop, port some more games, buy expensive electronics equipment, and THEN learn VHDL before saying "good luck" :)
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 11 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 21-Jan-2004 22:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 ([JC]):
Someone had done just that, Mick Tinker's BoXeR.

But, the timing is the difficult thing to get right in FPGA. Might do better with an ASIC, and in volume the ASIC would cost less to produce for a more reliable result anyways.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 12 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Bodie on 22-Jan-2004 01:19 GMT
This is really a cool project :).
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 13 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Jan-2004 04:12 GMT
window borders look like OS4. Why can't AROS use OS4 style window borders? Sure it's supposed to function like OS3.1, but does it HAVE to use the naft looking OS3.1 borders? Fabio? :D
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 14 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Mr.Anonymous on 22-Jan-2004 06:23 GMT
Oh, look. It's mini-miga. Can I fit it in my pocket?
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 15 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by ujb on 22-Jan-2004 07:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 ([JC]):
You need exact knowledge about the circuits of the original custom chips. The only person who might have this is Jens Schönfeld.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 16 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Jupp3 on 22-Jan-2004 07:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Mr.Anonymous):
>Can I fit it in my pocket?

Depends on size of your pocket :-)
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 17 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by egel on 22-Jan-2004 08:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Matt Parsons):
And the Coldfusion Accelerator?

Q:My understanding is that coldfire CPUs won't run 680x0 code ...

A: Wrong, The Coldfire CPU can run 68K code, but is missing a few instructions (only three or four) which will be emulated by software .....
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 18 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by koan on 22-Jan-2004 09:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Nate Downes):
> But, the timing is the difficult thing to get right in FPGA. Might do better
> with an ASIC, and in volume the ASIC would cost less to produce for a more
> reliable result anyways.

The kind of volumes you would need to make an ASIC cost effective would
be far too big for the Amiga market.

You're implying that FPGAs are dodgy in some respects: the timing won't be particularly easy to do even in an ASIC and if the FPGA timings are well designed and troubleshooted then I don't see why an ASIC would give a more
reliable result.

koan
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 19 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 22-Jan-2004 10:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
window borders look like OS4. Why can't AROS use OS4 style window borders? Sure it's supposed to function like OS3.1, but does it HAVE to use the naft looking OS3.1 borders? Fabio? :D
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

With the improved Intuition we recived back from MorphOS, you can choose whatever window borders you want.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 20 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 22-Jan-2004 10:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (egel):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Q:My understanding is that coldfire CPUs won't run 680x0 code ...

A: Wrong, The Coldfire CPU can run 68K code, but is missing a few instructions (only three or four) which will be emulated by software .....

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Trapping and Emulating instructions is not a quick precedure. Especially as it's not just instructions that are missing it's adressing modes too. The Supervisor mode is different too, or at least it used to be :-/

AROS can be compiled for the Coldfire and not suffer any speed penalties.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 21 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 22-Jan-2004 11:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Matt Parsons):
> With the improved Intuition we recived back from MorphOS, you can choose
> whatever window borders you want.

Ehm, what the hell are you talking about, Matt? :-)
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 22 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Jan-2004 12:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Fabio Alemagna):
rofl
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 23 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 22-Jan-2004 12:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Fabio Alemagna):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> With the improved Intuition we recived back from MorphOS, you can choose
> whatever window borders you want.

Ehm, what the hell are you talking about, Matt? :-)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Gah... Fabio the pedant... Ok then, The improved intuition has provision for implementing a skinning system, which will allow us to make a system to change the window borders to anthing you wish...

better? Fabio? ;-)
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 24 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 22-Jan-2004 13:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Matt Parsons):
Matt, it's not a matter of being pedant, it's just giving correct information. you originally made it sound like the skinning system was already in place, whilst it's not. I'm not even sure we have backported the relevant API.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 25 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 22-Jan-2004 13:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (koan):
ASIC's become cost effective in batches of 50.

Or are you saying that the Amiga marketplace is so bad off that 50 units can't be sold?
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 26 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 22-Jan-2004 14:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Fabio Alemagna):
ok, you are right. I'm sorry for calling you a pedant.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 27 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by BrianK on 22-Jan-2004 14:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (top):
@top wrote - ' would like to know if an AmigaOS emulator on a flashrom is possible ?
to running AmigaOS 3.9 natively and why not AmigaOS4 ?'

Coldfire processor is a derived from 68K technology not PPC. Thus, with AOS4 being PPC only there is most likely not a way to get 4.x to work on the ColdFire.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 28 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Darth_X on 22-Jan-2004 14:40 GMT
Nate, what do you think of this Nu platform?
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 29 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Jan-2004 14:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Fabio Alemagna):
hmmm... maybe a bounty for this? :D
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 30 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 22-Jan-2004 14:48 GMT
I love these projects, really fun. Kind of geeky.

But I'll stick a fork in my eye before I buy a 200mhz processor machine.
It's too slow. It only seems fast when you are running 50mhz. 2 days later, this is still 10x slower than a modern computer.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 31 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by BrianK on 22-Jan-2004 15:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (MarkTime):
@Marktime

Make sure to stay away from Palm OS machines very few are over 150Mhz.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 32 of 68ANN.lu
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Trolling
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 33 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 22-Jan-2004 16:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Darth_X):
Quite interesting. I know how tough a job it is doing this kind of work, so seeing it so far along is quite nice.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 34 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by info on 22-Jan-2004 17:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Nate Downes):
"ASIC's become cost effective in batches of 50.

Or are you saying that the Amiga marketplace is so bad off that 50 units can't be sold?"

What Planet are you on?

Modern day ASIC's cost close to a million just for the Masks!
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 35 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by info on 22-Jan-2004 17:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (MarkTime):
"I love these projects, really fun. Kind of geeky."

Coldfire is kinda interesing. If you would be building and upgraded A1200, this would be the easy way to go (low cost hight power). We are talking about 256 LW bit tech here!

"But I'll stick a fork in my eye before I buy a 200mhz processor machine.
It's too slow. It only seems fast when you are running 50mhz. 2 days later, this is still 10x slower than a modern computer."

Price for the power has to be looked at. Compare the CF prices vs PowerPC and you would see. Maybe like you could buy 10 of these CF chips vs 1 PowerPC (depending on some factors)
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 36 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by info on 22-Jan-2004 17:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Matt Parsons):
">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Q:My understanding is that coldfire CPUs won't run 680x0 code ...

A: Wrong, The Coldfire CPU can run 68K code, but is missing a few instructions (only three or four) which will be emulated by software .....

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Trapping and Emulating instructions is not a quick precedure. Especially as it's not just instructions that are missing it's adressing modes too. The Supervisor mode is different too, or at least it used to be :-/

AROS can be compiled for the Coldfire and not suffer any speed penalties."

If this is the case Matt, why not take the Kick from AOS and rework it for CF to boot 3.1 thru 3.9 Amiga OS?

It would be a great project! Who's interested?
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 37 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by info on 22-Jan-2004 17:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Nate Downes):
"Someone had done just that, Mick Tinker's BoXeR.

But, the timing is the difficult thing to get right in FPGA. Might do better with an ASIC, and in volume the ASIC would cost less to produce for a more reliable result anyways."

Was more of a paper project from what I heard! He couldn't get it to work, or did he?
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 38 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Nate Downes on 22-Jan-2004 18:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (info):
Some ASIC use masks, but nowadays there are other ASICs that are closer to "write-once" FPGA's than the ancient technologies once used.

Maybe it is a linguistic barrier here, with me meaning one thing while you mean something else?

Here's an example of the kind of chip I am talking about: http://www.faraday-tech.com/html/ASIC/IPsolution/structured.html

There are also ASSP's available if you want to nit-pick.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 39 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 22-Jan-2004 18:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (info):
Why spend a year reworking AOS 3.1 to run on the coldfire.. when AROS is here and now :-?
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 40 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Jan-2004 19:14 GMT
Decanini stop the censorship.

Comment 32 only said "this project is only aimed at the die hards", people like you should be a moderator on AW not ANN.

Kemp please give Decanini a warning.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 41 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by cdecanini on 22-Jan-2004 20:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Anonymous):
The post was saying more than that. I'm sick about the people who bashes any Amiga related projects while doing nothing for the community. If I had more time to read more threads I would moderate more messages to enforce constructive criticism instead of having lame posts like the one I moderated.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 42 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 22-Jan-2004 20:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Anonymous):
The post was saying more than that. I'm sick about the people who bashes any Amiga related projects while doing nothing for the community. If I had more time to read more threads I would moderate more messages to enforce constructive criticism instead of having lame posts like the one I moderated (And no I do not have an agenda against this anonymous poster).
BTW Christian does not warn me. If we need to know why something has been moderated we communicate with each other gently. This is something some people should learn.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 43 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Amigamad on 22-Jan-2004 20:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Christophe Decanini):
Hypocrite, you in the past have attacked Amigaworld.net for the same shit you are doing, total hypocrite and it is about time moderators like yourself would come down from your god almighy power trip and start to moderate properly.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 44 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by xeron on 22-Jan-2004 21:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Amigamad):
Yes Decanini is a two faced troll what goes around insulting other website moderators while he does exactly the same thing on this website, this is just censorship gone mad.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 45 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by koan on 22-Jan-2004 21:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Nate Downes):
> Some ASIC use masks, but nowadays there are other ASICs that are closer to
> "write-once" FPGA's than the ancient technologies once used.

Even if that is the case the development cycle is much more expensive than with FPGAs: if you make a mistake, you've wasted a device. With an FPGA, if you make a mistake you just reconfigure with a new bitfile.

We all know how mistakes found later in the development cycle cost more to correct than mistakes found early on. Mistakes will always be found at very late stages but then it is a case of "is it worth correcting or can we live with it ?"

Therefore, I still don't believe ASICs would be more cost effective than FPGAs.
Also I still don't agree with your original statement that implied that a properly configured ASIC would be more reliable than a properly configured FPGA.

koan
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 46 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 22-Jan-2004 21:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Amigamad):
Has Christophe ever attacked AW.net?
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 47 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Amigamad on 22-Jan-2004 21:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Matt Parsons):
Yes the moderators.
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 48 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 22-Jan-2004 21:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (xeron):
You aren't Peter!!!
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 49 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Parsons on 22-Jan-2004 21:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Amigamad):
Have you been moderated down here? you seem bitter :-(
Nueron/NuOS: Amiga-inspired computer project based on Coldfire processors : Comment 50 of 68ANN.lu
Posted by Amigamad on 22-Jan-2004 21:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Matt Parsons):
No, i am just fed up of people attacking Amigaworld for the exact samething they do.

I really do hate hypocrites in this community and it is about time they was stamped out once and for all as they are just hurting the platform, i am not bitter but stating my opions before Christophe plays "let moderate comments i dont like"
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