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[Events] MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,GermanyANN.lu
Posted on 24-Apr-2004 13:16 GMT by Andreas Weyrauch41 comments
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The following employees of Hyperion Entertainment are going to be present at AmigaOS4 Event in Essen, Germany on May 15th. Hans Jörg and Thomas Frieden (Chief programmers of AOS4), Seffen Haeuser (AmigaInput and several OS4 portings) and Timothy De Groote (Sales Manager). Besides that, Amiga MicroA1 with AmigaOS4 can be seen for the first time in Germany. For further information please refer to the official AmigaOS4 Event website.AmigaOS4 Event
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 1 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Apr-2004 11:39 GMT
The final production board has been showed at other shows but not
much is known about it. What became the final spec's? What northbridge
does it use? Did Alan's extra PCI in a custom designed slot make it
into the board design?
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 2 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne Dresing, PhD. on 24-Apr-2004 11:42 GMT
Will any hardware designers from Mai Logic be present? I would like to meet some of them.

Can anyone guess what I would like to say to them?
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 3 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Apr-2004 11:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Anonymous):
> Did Alan's extra PCI in a custom designed slot make it into the board design?

BWAAAHAHAHAH!

Now don't be mean. Yes, he's always full of it and good for a laugh, but sometimes Alan actually seems to believe in his own gibberish. When people ask him about this and that missing in a board design (as if he could do anything about it), then what's his naturally conditioned response? 'Don't worry, we might do an expansion card *mumble mumble [insert irrelevant rant about pegasos]*'
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 4 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Darren Eveland on 24-Apr-2004 12:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Anonymous):
The final production board (Mark III), has never been shown. What HAS been shown was Mark I and Mark II boards. The final specs for the Mark III have never been announced, as far as I know, unless Alan Redhouse has told them....because there are differences between Mark II and Mark III. But for sure it most certainly has not been "shown" yet.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 5 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Apr-2004 12:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Darren Eveland):
I like mine even if it isn't the final design :)
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 6 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 24-Apr-2004 13:02 GMT
http://www.mrhardwarecomputers.com/pages/ma1.htm
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 7 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 24-Apr-2004 18:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
Hi Thomas of Pagan :-), does OS4 already on your board?
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 8 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 24-Apr-2004 20:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Wayne Dresing, PhD.):
That you're sorry for spreading so much bullshit on amiga sites?

Oh, wait, no, that would take a man to do that, after all, mindless trolling is so much more fun!

Oh well, looks like i might be heading to Germany then :P

Cheers
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 9 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by IanS on 24-Apr-2004 21:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Wayne Dresing, PhD.):
Hmmm, would you dare to stand face to face to somebody and criticise them?

Seeing as you can't even reveal your real name on bulletin boards, I think you're just a load of hot air.

Feel free to prove me wrong though.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 10 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne Dresing, PhD. on 24-Apr-2004 21:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Amon_Re):
I am indeed not spreading bullshite. You are the troll.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 11 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Jorge on 25-Apr-2004 06:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Anonymous):
>Does OS4 already on your board?

Yes.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 12 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 25-Apr-2004 06:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Amon_Re):
Oh, wait, no, that would take a man to do that, after all, mindless trolling is so much more fun!
___________

Amon it's cool to see that you took my chair, thx, good Amon troller.
Anyway MicroAone is a ridicolous piece of crack, with that fantastic NOrthBridge, it's fantastic use of old DIMM, plus the fantastic bus speed (without mentioning the lack of other feature that are standard on Pegasos2) ... and the price that some dealers prevent on their site.
Only stupid ppl can think to something from MAi, Teron or Eyetech as something "new".
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 13 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by ikir on 25-Apr-2004 07:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Eva):
Ciao Eva

If you're not interested don't buy it, don't read news about it. Someone likes MicroA1, someone likes PEg2, someone likes Mac ecc ecc. Enjoy your favorite machine and let the other people make their choice :-)

Ciao :-)
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 14 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Kjetil on 25-Apr-2004 07:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Eva):
I don't think the MicroA1 Is designed for the server market, it's designed so it can be used inn a DVD players, or as multimedia setupbox for you TV etc. (Like PlayStation & XBOX) You do not need Gigabit ethernet etc. (I prepare if they head Gigabit ethernet), it allmost so tiny it can fit inn laptop if they just made it slim.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 15 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 25-Apr-2004 08:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Wayne Dresing, PhD.):
Give it a rest you wanker, you're just as pityfull as "Intresting", and as clueless as SG

Enjoy your mediocre life, you'll never aspire to anything wortyhwile anyway
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 16 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Apr-2004 09:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Kjetil):
"I don't think the MicroA1 Is designed for the server market, it's designed so it can be used inn a DVD players, or as multimedia setupbox for you TV etc. (Like PlayStation & XBOX) You do not need Gigabit ethernet etc. (I prepare if they head Gigabit ethernet), it almost so tiny it can fit inn laptop if they just made it slim."

It could be used as a slim client, or in a diskless display station. Fast networking might be handy in that case - for example, for streamimg video to it.

Imagine a football museum, for example. You could hold lots of video on servers and have a bunch of A1s with screens for viewing famous incidents. Or the same for wildlife shots in a natural history museum or a wildlife centre.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 17 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 25-Apr-2004 09:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Eva):
Complete, irelevant drivel to the post you replied to.
Besides, the Pegasos 2 ain't no hot shit neighter, these are nothing more then hobby machines, get over it
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 18 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 25-Apr-2004 09:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Don Cox):
And that's the kind of thing Eyetech love doing (media terminals etc)
We'll see what the future brings, hopefully something good :P
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 19 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Apr-2004 11:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Amon_Re):
"And that's the kind of thing Eyetech love doing (media terminals etc)
We'll see what the future brings, hopefully something good :P"

As soon as the product is available, people can go out and sell it for all kinds of applications.

IMO the Hollywood program is the key thing here, although a good web browser (IBrowse 3 ??) would help too.

I don't think there will be much to choose between the Pegasos and the MicroA1, so which is used will depend on things like how good local dealer support is.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 20 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 25-Apr-2004 14:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Don Cox):
Agreed, customer support, available apps,those things are the key
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 21 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2004 14:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Don Cox):
> I don't think the MicroA1 Is designed for the server market, it's designed so it can be used inn a DVD players, or as multimedia setupbox for you TV etc

Of couse it's not for the server market, it's packed with features usesless for servers: Sound, gfx card with its own memory etc. As to home entertainment, you don't really need mini-itx for that. A micro-atx board like the Pegasos has the same width and is only 6cm longer, ie 23 cm. You can build amazingly small cases with micro-atx, too, if you care. It certainly fits into a typical 43cm hifi case. And micro-atx, unlike mini-atx, has a decent number of PCI slots, standard RAM slots and AGP. Height shouldn't be an issue: a cpu card and a half-height agp card add only a few inches. Space needed for cables and airflow, too. Besides, for multimedia, you want to insert a few cards anyway: TV card/DVB card, maybe a WLAN card for streaming, maybe a good audio card with optical in/out. Frankly, I don't see much use for a mini-itx A1, neither as server nor in the home entertainment niche nor as kiosk system: gain 6 cm, very good, but that is the only advantage. You will have to look long and hard to justify anything with a "it's 6 cm narrower". Mass-produced, the format makes sense. High integration reduces the price. But if you produce only a few, it's going to cost more, not less: Development costs, pcb with more layers, expensive miniaturized parts. Eyetech should concentrate on micro-atx, that's the reasoanble middle-ground for modern boards with a wide selection of on-board components.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 22 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Bill "tekmage" Borsari on 26-Apr-2004 03:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Anonymous):
the Mini-ITX is smaller then MicroATX, both in footprint and in height. As for the MicroA1 the ram it uses is standard for laptop systems so availability and price was both decent.

Using a MicroA1 to power kiosks is kind of silly when vendors can get a mini-itx mobo with a P4 and ATI Radeon 9100 video to run Windows or X86 linux. It would be much simpler to create frontends for custom apps for either platform given the number of people who know how to program for them. There just are not many compelling reasons to use either an A1 or Peg for embedded applications yet.

Bill "tekmage" Borsari
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 23 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 26-Apr-2004 06:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Bill "tekmage" Borsari):
Except a P4 isn't really that brilliant for an embedded system. Too hot. (might not matter for all applications). And then the alternative is typically a VIA CPU, or a G3/G4 PPC. The 750FX uses no more power than a VIA C3, and it seriously kicks the C3s ass, performance-wise.

I think it could be possible to sell this with AmigaOS for kiosk applications. I really do. But as has been said, it means right application and good enough support. Remember that you're not shopping for "small PC to make an info desk out of", you're shopping for "an info desk". Typically the people who need these things don't have a bunch of people on staff who are good at programming GUIs, they need the whole solution. Installable by people with little or no knowledge about PCs. Remember this, as it is important. I believe it's the whole reason for Eyetech existing today.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 24 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas Frieden on 26-Apr-2004 07:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Bill "tekmage" Borsari):
> There just are not many compelling reasons to use either an A1 or Peg for
> embedded applications yet.

Power consumption ?
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 25 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 26-Apr-2004 07:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Thomas Frieden):
"> There just are not many compelling reasons to use either an A1 or Peg for
> embedded applications yet.

Power consumption ?"

How does that compare to a similar board using a Transmeta or VIA EDEN chip ?
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 26 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Apr-2004 08:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Ole-Egil):
> Except a P4 isn't really that brilliant for an embedded system. Too hot. (might not matter for all applications)

Any mobile AMD XP Barton (priced 10 EUR above the desktop version), underclocked to 800 MHZ, does not even require a fan and would still be sufficiently fast ;)

> I think it could be possible to sell this with AmigaOS for kiosk applications. I really do

Well, really really believing doesn't get you very very far. You will have to come up with some advantages along the lines of price, performance or software. I'd assume that software is the most relevant factor, given that you can find cool and quiet hardware everywhere if you look hard enough.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 27 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Jorge on 26-Apr-2004 09:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Ole-Egil):
>And then the alternative is typically a VIA CPU, or a G3/G4 PPC. The 750FX uses
>no more power than a VIA C3, and it seriously kicks the C3s ass,
>performance-wise.

Except it really lacks of a multimedia command set. This is even more a problem for embedded visual content engines. Only a G4 could solve this problem (or an Altivec/etc/ GX ?). With the R7000 on board a fast vector engine could really do a lot with this littel board (and would indeed blow out - not just - the C3).
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 28 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Apr-2004 09:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Jorge):
Even if there is no separate multimedia commands then there is more than enough power for almost any embedded application. There is more than enough CPU power, so lack of such commands really is not so big problem.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 29 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 26-Apr-2004 10:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Jorge):
Multimedia type applications is the first application where you'll see the G3 blow the C3 out of the water. So THAT I am not very scared of ;-)

And the G4 should easily battle the P4 in applications where SIMD is possible. Altivec beats SSE2 any day. But again, remember that typically the end customers of info desk systems are not software houses. We're talking about a complete solution here. And then it's more or less pointless to compare CPU against CPU, because the end user will never be able to do a comparison. If it is fast enough, it is possible. If not, then it's not possible. Having something that is faster than real time doesn't give any sort of benefit ;-) (in this type of application...)
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 30 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Apr-2004 11:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Ole-Egil):
> Multimedia type applications is the first application where you'll see the G3 blow the C3 out of the water.

How come? The latest C3-based boards have dedicated hardware for multimedia, for example motion compensation etc. needed for DVD playback. With multimedia content these days, the CPU is mostly idle. A G3 can not idle a C3 out of the water, can it?
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 31 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 26-Apr-2004 14:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Jorge):
"Except it really lacks of a multimedia command set. "

What do you need that for?

Everything you need for almost any kiosk type application can be done with Scala on an old Amiga or Hollywood on a new one.

A lot of these displays just show a rolling sequence of adverts, or a simple touch screen menu system that brings up text and images.

What you do need is reliability, and low heat is a part of that.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 32 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Apr-2004 21:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Don Cox):
> What do you need that [multimedia command set] for?

For fast real time manipulation, encoding and decoding up to HDTV.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 33 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 27-Apr-2004 06:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Anonymous):
CPU performance of C3:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles/viac31ghzlowend/
http://www.dansdata.com/m10000.htm

With an MPEG2 accelerator in hardware, Via boards will have an advantage for _that excact application_. It does NOT mean that only Via can compete.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 34 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 27-Apr-2004 09:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Anonymous):
"For fast real time manipulation, encoding and decoding up to HDTV."

And you need that for a presentation on Roman pots, or a screen saying "Play the Lotery Here" ?
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 35 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Apr-2004 11:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Ole-Egil):
> With an MPEG2 accelerator in hardware, Via boards will have an advantage for _that excact application_. It does NOT mean that only Via can compete.

I don't get your point. You said that the G3 would blow the VIA boards out of the water. Apparently, that is not the case: even with a slightly slower CPU, it does provide excellent multimedia performance. A G3 withough hardware acceleration would be hopelessly underpowered in comparison: The recent M10000 reaches an impressive 300+ frames/sec in PowerDVD. That translates into a CPU load of 5-8% for normal playback. It doesn't really matter that this kind of performance is typical only for MPEG2. MPEG2 is the standard format. It's used on DVDs and also for DVB (digital TV/Radio). A kiosk/entertainment/pvr system doesn't need a wide variety of formats. It's entirely sufficient if it can decode the standard format.

http://www.pyroport.com/reviews/3/powerdvd.gif
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 36 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by minator on 27-Apr-2004 12:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Ole-Egil):
>With an MPEG2 accelerator in hardware, Via boards will have an advantage
>for _that excact application_. It does NOT mean that only Via can compete.

They don't even have an advantage there - all Radeons have hardware MPEG2 decode.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 37 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Apr-2004 12:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Anonymous):
"The recent M10000 reaches an impressive 300+ frames/sec in PowerDVD. "

That's ridiculous because human eyes and brain can't handle 300+ frames/sec. You simple don't see any difference between that and much lower frame rate.
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 38 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Apr-2004 12:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Anonymous):
And how many does have display which can show 300+ frames/sec ? Not many I guess. And sure displays in the infokiosks etc are not state of the are anyway.

So your display can't show as many frames as that, and your eyes and brain can't handle as many frames as that. So I don't understand why you should have computer which has enough power to show all those unseen frames ?
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 39 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Apr-2004 13:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Anonymous):
> And how many does have display which can show 300+ frames/sec ? Not many I guess

That was a benchmark, dude ;)
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 40 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 28-Apr-2004 17:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Anonymous):
It was also just ONE application. Wake up and smell the coffee, dude. MPEG2 isn' the grand unified file format for all applications. And like I said, better than real time when it comes to video is really not that useful ;-)
MicroA1 and Hyperion to participate at AOS4 Event Essen,Germany : Comment 41 of 41ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 29-Apr-2004 12:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Jorge):
that's non sense. why don't you first compare an Ezra-T C3 with an Ezra-T C3 with an improved chipset? you'll see that the improvement in perfomance doesn't come from the cpu, but the graphic chipset. The Radeon 7000 of the mini-itx A1 can crush the perfomance of any VIA EPIA chipset. And now add that the G3 has a strong CPU, not like the weak one of the Ezra-T/Nehemiah. Yes, Nehemiah improves a little the speed but so little that it won't make much difference compared with a PPC.
VIAs C3/Nehemiah are weak cpus and their graphic chipset is weak compared to a Radeon. The crap network card is weak compared to the 3com used in the A1s... etc
mini-itx A1s should be more powerful (if Eyetech releases it)
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