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[Events] Nice Essen ReportANN.lu
Posted on 04-Jun-2004 13:09 GMT by Alkis Tsapanidis (Edited on 2004-06-04 19:56:11 GMT by Christophe Decanini)115 comments
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Here you can find a very nice and informative report of the Essen AmigaOS4 Event.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 1 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by IanS on 04-Jun-2004 11:12 GMT
I've glanced through the article...

What bashing?!
Nice Essen Report : Comment 2 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 04-Jun-2004 11:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (IanS):
"AmigaOS also had advantages such as an adjustable zoom feature, DVD+RW/CD MountRainier writing, TIFF datatype or a global search function over its competitor/alternative MorphOS."

Misinformed.

"AmigaOne is faster than Pegasos at the same clock, too."

Very objective!

"Alan and Petro agree Bill Buck of Genesi is mental and evil."

Pure, Eva-like, trolling.

"MorphOS' 3D Radeon drivers are said to be ready for 1 year already, but the IP will only be transfered to Genesi when they pay the developers."

Something that would cause a HUGE flamewar if posted about Amiga.

Need anything more?
Nice Essen Report : Comment 3 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Jun-2004 11:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
It seems that YOU are trying to start huge flamewar.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 4 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 04-Jun-2004 11:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
LOL
Nice Essen Report : Comment 5 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 04-Jun-2004 11:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (itix):
But MorphOS got mentioned in OS4 article again, why should anyone complain? :)
Nice Essen Report : Comment 6 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 04-Jun-2004 11:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (itix):
"MorphOS' 3D Radeon drivers are said to be ready for 1 year already, but the IP will only be transfered to Genesi when they pay the developers." And this doesnt look very likely. Because as far as I know Radeon 3D drivers are not ready (missing functionality etc.) and few months ago were far from perfect.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 7 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 04-Jun-2004 11:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (IanS):
come on ian.....
once os4 is actually comparable to mos then claim it's superiour, not before
Nice Essen Report : Comment 8 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 04-Jun-2004 11:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (cheesegrate):
What part of comment #1 is claiming that AmigaOS4 is superior to MorphOS? Call me blind or whatever, I just don't see it.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 9 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by tokai on 04-Jun-2004 12:04 GMT
>> AmigaOne is faster than Pegasos at the same clock, too.

of course, the G3/600MHz AmigaONE with _133MHz_ FSB should be normally faster than the Pegasos(1) G3/600MHz with just _100MHz_ FSB.

it's a correct fact, but it tell _not_ the whole truth. ;-)

regards,
tokai
Nice Essen Report : Comment 10 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 04-Jun-2004 12:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>"AmigaOS also had advantages such as an adjustable zoom feature, DVD+RW/CD
>MountRainier writing, TIFF datatype or a global search function over its
>competitor/alternative MorphOS."
>
>Misinformed.

Please be a bit more specific, what exactly is it that is wrong about that statement?

Anyway, even if it's wrong, beeing misinformed is not the same thing as "bashing". Instead of starting yet another flamewar on ANN.lu about it, why not just inform the authors of the mistake so the get the chance to correct it?

>"AmigaOne is faster than Pegasos at the same clock, too."
>
>Very objective!

True. But I wouldn't go as far as calling it "bashing".

>"Alan and Petro agree Bill Buck of Genesi is mental and evil."
>
>Pure, Eva-like, trolling.

Trolling? Please don't abuse this term more than it already has. Furthermore, if it's true that Alan and Petro did agree on this, it would be a lie to claim otherwise, no? You're barking up the wrong tree, this is a report on what happened at the event, remember?

>"MorphOS' 3D Radeon drivers are said to be ready for 1 year already, but the
>IP will only be transfered to Genesi when they pay the developers."
>
>Something that would cause a HUGE flamewar if posted about Amiga.

Probably. But again, is it a false claim? If so, tell them about it!

If anything is causing flamewars, than it is these kind of "news" postings on ANN.lu. Here, have a mirror. You need it.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 11 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Jun-2004 12:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Sammy Nordström):
"If anything is causing flamewars, than it is these kind of "news" postings on ANN.lu"

Exactly. This is what I meant when I made my first comment.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 12 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 04-Jun-2004 12:27 GMT
Short answer:

It isn't.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 13 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 04-Jun-2004 12:34 GMT
Its not, I also note the comment about Bill Buck made by ( allegedly ) Alan and Petro.

Weird.

As one of the "some people", I stand by it.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 14 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 04-Jun-2004 12:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (DaveP):
...that is stand by the politics has no place, not the comments made about Bill Buck.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 15 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 04-Jun-2004 12:51 GMT
But OTOH, article seems to conclude what was shwon and said in Essen event, so maybe it is not good idea find conspiracy theories between lines. If Radeon 3D drivers are late due to lacking payment so be it. It gives better opportunity for OS4 team to reach development gap. And if Petro and Alan agree BB is evil, well, so what? It is Alan and Petro trolling, not an article writer... So maybe it is bit overreacting. Btw there is Zoom in MOS although I cant understand why it is included. Is a zoom particularly useful?
Nice Essen Report : Comment 16 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 04-Jun-2004 12:54 GMT
"Alan and Petro agree Bill Buck of Genesi is mental and evil."

That made me laugh :)

Thanks Alan, Petro, you made my friday.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 17 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 04-Jun-2004 12:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (itix):
Yes, I read it rather as the reviewer reporting what was said, rather than editorialising. But I understand and empathise with the sensitivities expressed in this thread.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 18 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 04-Jun-2004 13:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (itix):
Zoom is very good for finding and reporting graphical glitches and
imperfections, which I'm sure is high priority for both MOS and OS4.
;-)

I also use it to be able to read sites with very awful colour schemes,
such as MooBunny.

But I agree.. a native TIFF datatype is surely the most crucial
feature of any modern OS! ;-D
Nice Essen Report : Comment 19 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 04-Jun-2004 13:50 GMT
I had a talk with Petro that day, and he didn't say Bill Buck was evil, however, he did say he wanted nothing to do with him (the story BBRV spreaded here about Petro selling pegs was denied)

Cheers
Nice Essen Report : Comment 20 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Guest on 04-Jun-2004 14:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Amon_Re):
> had a talk with Petro that day, and he didn't say Bill Buck was evil,
> however, he did say he wanted nothing to do with him (the story BBRV
> spreaded here about Petro selling pegs was denied)

That makes more sense, I think what was stated in the article was solely the author's interpretation. That said it may still be the opinion of Alan and Petro, but I think they wouldn't state this so directly in public.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 21 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Jun-2004 14:12 GMT
Eh ? Why is this thred now classified as an event ? Is It so big event if someone tries to start a flamewar ? :)
Nice Essen Report : Comment 22 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 04-Jun-2004 14:17 GMT
"David "DaveP" Pitcher tested it at IBM and found a four times higher throughput compared to an x86 system at the same speed. AmigaOne is faster than Pegasos at the same clock, too."

What throughput ? Compared to what x86 and what Pegasos models ?
Such statements need to be backed up or they fall into the Amiga zealotry category.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 23 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Guest on 04-Jun-2004 14:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Anonymous):
Agreed, the "Can someone explain to me why such MorphOS and Genesi bashing is perfectly OK in this case?" should IMO be left out from the news item when modded up.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 24 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Guest on 04-Jun-2004 14:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Christophe Decanini):
Didn't see you comment when BBRV claimed a G3 Peg is faster than a G4 AmigaOne. ;-)
Nice Essen Report : Comment 25 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 04-Jun-2004 14:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Guest):
But you saw lots of MOS users stating it was BS, I hope :)

Hard to remember.. maybe mr.Decanini was one of us back then, maybe not.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 26 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Jun-2004 14:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Christophe Decanini):
I think i have seen some interesting numbers too, which do indicate that AmigaOne would be fastrer in some situations.. If i only would know in what thread it was posted..
Nice Essen Report : Comment 27 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 04-Jun-2004 14:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Christophe Decanini):
I can't discuss commercially sensitive reports and information on public bulletin boards. The comment is however correct in the context of the detailed test report.

Mark it zealoutry if you will, it makes no difference to me.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 28 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Jun-2004 14:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Guest):
Would some of you blue guys explain me why bashing OS4 and Amigaone is OK in every OS4 thread ? If you are so upset now then explain what I asked.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 29 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 04-Jun-2004 14:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Sammy Nordström):
First of all, to people that said that such stuff are not news.
I added the [Forum] part so that we can have a discussion. I didn't intend to use
the last part of the posting as news.
Secondly, I want a discussion with everyone, not a flamewar.
Thirdly, one of the features is already available since MOS 1.4 and the second
is in development.
Thirdly, my question is: Why is any mention of AmigaOS in anything to do with
MorphOS bad, while the opposite isn't?
Both of them are good, on competitive grounds.
Have a discussion and stop reading between the lines.
(That was directed to everyone, not just Samface).
Nice Essen Report : Comment 30 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 04-Jun-2004 14:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Guest):
Actually it should be moderated as a forum posting and NOT an event.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 31 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Guest on 04-Jun-2004 14:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Anonymous):
Yeah, I remember some slight a chart with slight differences as well. Other reasons for differences could be that the new DMA drivers allow "simultaneous memory access by the CPU and a PCI bus master" on the AmigaOne and the Pegasos1 disabled this feature and that the Pegasos2 does not have 1X AGP bandwith "Usually where an AGP slot is electrically implemented on a PCI-X bus this only runs with the 66 MHz PCI (not PCI-X) protocol and is therefore significantly slower than even single speed AGP.".

Sounds like reasonable comments on why the Peg&Peg2 could be slower in some situations.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 32 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Guest on 04-Jun-2004 14:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
But it is also event news. It would be weird having two virtually identical submissions. Maybe you should have just submitted this as news and kept your comments for the following replies?
Nice Essen Report : Comment 33 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 04-Jun-2004 14:42 GMT
If you haven't noticed, burning Genesi posters, throwing Pegasos boards into the toilet, starting threads about frying, hanging Genesi officials is all right for some, but expressing opinions about the "Amiga likeness" of the Pegasos is strictly prohibited. Don't know why are you surprised.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 34 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Guest on 04-Jun-2004 14:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Emeric SH):
> throwing Pegasos boards into the toilet

That would be a waste. Were these people so unhappy with their Pegs?
Nice Essen Report : Comment 35 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 04-Jun-2004 14:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Anonymous):
>Would some of you blue guys explain me why bashing OS4 and Amigaone is OK in every OS4 thread ? If you are so upset now then explain what I asked.

Because there are always trolls.. be it red or blue?
Why you even ask.. pretty fucking obvious these days aint it? :)
Nice Essen Report : Comment 36 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Leo on 04-Jun-2004 15:01 GMT
"MorphOS' 3D Radeon drivers are said to be ready for 1 year already, but the IP will only be transfered to Genesi when they pay the developers."

I wouldn't be suprised if it was true... As they are already keeping private new Voodoo drivers, software renderer,... why releasing Radeon drivers ? ;)

But a rumour remains a rumour until it's confirmed or unconfirmed...

Leo.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 37 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 04-Jun-2004 15:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>Why is any mention of AmigaOS in anything to do with
>MorphOS bad, while the opposite isn't?

I don't think anyone is against merely mentioning the competitor's product nor making comparisons with the competition of your prefered choice, but when people start saying demeaning comments about the competeting product's users, such as blind followers of the name, etc...
Nice Essen Report : Comment 38 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 04-Jun-2004 15:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Guest):
He said performs better. Which is true for example for HD benchmarks but anyway if bbrv made wrong statement it does not escuse people doing such claims in reports that once again make us look stupid without backing up what is said.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 39 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 04-Jun-2004 15:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (DaveP):
"I can't discuss commercially sensitive reports and information on public bulletin boards. The comment is however correct in the context of the detailed test report."

But it is OK to speak about it in public demonstration and to have it marked in a report ?

It is a bit like the AROS PPC port you did ?
Nice Essen Report : Comment 40 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Jun-2004 15:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Leo):
@Leo:
The MorphOS team had always wanted to release working stuff for the end user. Look at the USB UHCI driver. Everyone was complaining (and me too !), but when it was released it was working very well (at least never had a driver related pb, but there are some class missing...).

Radeon drivers and others stuff will certainly follow the same path, a bit late, but working well.

-
For the rest "AOne is faster than the Pegasos at same clock" it's pure crap !
You want to compare the IDE UDMA drivers ? :-))
Mind does about 50 Mb/s on hdparm, and 55/60 Mb/s on some AmigaOS benchmark test (using 68k bench !!!)., Peg II of coz !

You want to compare the Voodoo 3D drivers ? :-P

And what about DMA trash? Ok, there seen to be a fixed for the IDE driver, but what about FireWire? USB? Ethernet .... If it takes 2 years to adapt ONE driver to a *well known feature*, your AOne will be fully usable in 20 years !

Note, I haven't claimed the Peg is faster (I don't know). but it's surely
* more reliable (Peg I with April or Peg II)
* more feauture full (DDR -> SDRAM is rare ourdays, GB port, FireWire built-in...).
* more profesionnal: clean PCB, connector protection (IDE, Floppy ...).
* MicroATX

Bye
Nice Essen Report : Comment 41 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 04-Jun-2004 15:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Christophe Decanini):
I wasn't there at the show. If you want to find out about AROSPPC you can mail me, if not, well, you can carry on trying ( and failing ) to wind me up.

Dave.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 42 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Guest on 04-Jun-2004 16:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Christophe Decanini):
"Better performing hardware" would mean to me that the collective perfoms better, including HD access and AGP bandwith.

Anyway, the article doesn't state why the AmigaOne peforms better. Maybe something they should have asked or maybe they did but left out Alan explanation?
Nice Essen Report : Comment 43 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 04-Jun-2004 16:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
I "fixed" your post.
I think the discussion should be in the thread, not in the news item.
Information should be as neutral as possible, comments is another story.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 44 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 04-Jun-2004 16:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (DaveP):
I don't know your email. You can find mine on the uper right part of this page.
I would be interested to know more about your PPC AROS, and maybe test it.

BTW, why be so secretive about your great participation to the AROS project ?
Nice Essen Report : Comment 45 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 04-Jun-2004 16:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Anonymous):
You seriously believe that Hyperion and the rest of the AmigaOS4 Team has been doing nothing but writing an IDE driver for the last two years? And what do you mean by "more professional"? And about your "clean PCB" argument, are you saying that the AmigaOne PCB is "dirty" somehow?

Your argumentation technique stinks, IMO.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 46 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 04-Jun-2004 16:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Guest):
I have never seen any proof of the AGP performing better on the Amigaone than on the Peg or vice versa.
I would have particularly liked to know how does an AmigaOne perform better than an x86 mobo (what test, compared to what mobo etc).
Nice Essen Report : Comment 47 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 04-Jun-2004 16:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
12% of incomes for Amiga branded products goes toward Amiga, Inc?

Which SHOULD be used to pay off the judgements. HAH!
Nice Essen Report : Comment 48 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 04-Jun-2004 16:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Guest):
I would post asking for the removal of the last part but Christophe did it before
I could ask:-)
Nice Essen Report : Comment 49 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 04-Jun-2004 16:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Christophe Decanini):
The email address is DaveP@amigaworld.net, there if you can keep a confidence, I will tell you what is going on.
Nice Essen Report : Comment 50 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Rich Woods on 04-Jun-2004 16:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Amon_Re):
Posted by Amon_Re (Registered user) on 04-Jun-2004 15:50:46
I had a talk with Petro that day, and he didn't say Bill Buck was evil, however, he did say he wanted nothing to do with him (the story BBRV spreaded here about Petro selling pegs was denied)

Cheers

-------------------------------------
Big difference.
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