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[Files] New AmigaOne firmware availableANN.lu
Posted on 06-Oct-2004 12:44 GMT by Rik Sweeney226 comments
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A news item on AmigaWorld.net states that Hyperion has released the update of U-Boot to 1.1.1
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 101 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Oct-2004 17:42 GMT
For those of you defending the GPL, here's a quote from the OFFICIAL FAQ telling you *what to do* if you discover a possible violation:

"What should I do if I discover a possible violation of the GPL?
You should report it. First, check the facts as best you can. Then tell the publisher or copyright holder of the specific GPL-covered program. If that is the Free Software Foundation, write to <license-violation@gnu.org>. Otherwise, the program's maintainer may be the copyright holder, or else could tell you how to contact the copyright holder, so report it to the maintainer."

(http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#ReportingViolation)

I've read that a lot of times, but even if I stand on my head, hold my breath and close one eye I still can't get it to read "make a public thread in some forum like ANN". So, either you do it the *right way* according to the FAQ, or you don't do it at all, period.

This is also interesting:

"Once you have collected the details, you should send a precise report to the copyright holder of the packages that are being misused. The copyright holder is the one who is legally authorized to take action to enforce the license."

(http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.html)

So, as the copyright holder is the *one who is legally authorized to take action to enforce the license* what all you GPL defenders do here is more or less a crime as you have *no* legal rights to take *any* actions to enforce the license unless you are the copyright holder.

And more (from the FAQ, link above):

"What constitutes combining two parts into one program? This is a legal question, which ultimately judges will decide."

So, unless you are a judge, and someone authorized (i.e. the copyright holder) have taken it to your court, you don't have any *legal rights* to rule someone right or wrong when it comes to using GPL code together with a closed source program. More importantly, in many countries, unless you have a special permission (some news sites may get it), you are (few exceptions permitting) *not* allowed to state the name of *any* individual on a website unless they have given you permission to do so.

So, someone may have violated the GPL, but I just don't see how breaking the law and not obeying by the GPL FAQ in so many ways as is regularely done here could in any way be considerd a rightful thing to do. If you want to defend the GPL, please do so, but atleast do it right, ok?
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 102 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Darren Eveland on 07-Oct-2004 17:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Bernie Meyer):
Bernie Said:

"Of course, in two days time, the Amithlon contract will be over beyond a shadow of a doubt, beyond debate, beyond any possible challenge, and while point (b) of course stands, I will at least have the chance to look at things anew without having to think about point (a). Considering how sick I am of work right now, I am tempted to take December off (at full pay) and do something fun that doesn't need to earn money :) "

So, is there any remote possibility you could move ahead with Umilator now? :=)
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 103 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Tosh lines. on 07-Oct-2004 17:59 GMT
Funny how the wanker moderators on aw.net always slag off people then lock the threads.

L8-X you pussy.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 104 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 07-Oct-2004 18:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Anonymous):
You are quoting alking about *official* method (you know.. Lawers, courtcases etc).. But making all 'small mistakes' official courtcases would be too much hassle (and would easily kill small company like Hyperion)..

Besides, inofficial and polite reminding of rules usually work quite well. Like we have seen here today. I have no idea how much related Emails have been send directly between parties, but apparently something important was told to Friendens...
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 105 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Oct-2004 18:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
You earned my respect now.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 106 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Mendoza on 07-Oct-2004 19:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Bernie Meyer):
@ Bernd

Patch was "ported" by me, not Bjorn Hagstrom

Btw. here are some other GNU ports, care to go thru them to see if I have violated anything? http://home.polarboing.com/nicomen/download/aos40. I really don't want to be in breach, and since it seems you know a lot about it, it would be an honour. Thanks!

Ah and please do this directory too:

http://home.polarboing.com/nicomen/download/index.php?path=software/ix/

and then go thru this page:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/amiga
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 107 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas on 07-Oct-2004 19:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Bernie Meyer):
Sorry about that...it was aimed at another post about the trademark..
Cut and paste error..!!
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 108 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by ikir on 07-Oct-2004 20:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Bernie Meyer):
Why not ask him to upload the text instead of attacking him here?
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 109 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Oct-2004 20:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (ikir):
why not shut up and go back to Amiga troll world where everything is allowed as long as it is done in the Name of Amiga..

Hail the Amiga!
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 110 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Jeffro on 07-Oct-2004 21:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Tosh lines.):
There was nothing wrong in his moderation, that thread was starting to go round in circles. The only reason the thread was carrying on was because fabio wouldn't leave the issue alone (as usual) after the issue at hand had already been resolved between the respective parties.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 111 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Joe on 07-Oct-2004 21:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (Jeffro):
The thread should have been locked with a reason only. Out of all the Amiga sites i have been on it only seems to happen on AW, where a moderator (usually MikeB) has his last say with insults and attacks which the thread is then locked before people have a chance to reply/defend themselves.

AW always gets targeted a lot, because it is obvious that the site truly deserves it. I hope one day it turns in to a true Amiga site.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 112 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Oct-2004 04:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (JoannaK):
Well, you don't have to take it to court, just read the FAQ and follow the steps it mentions, ok? Let's have a look:

"What should I do if I discover a possible violation of the GPL?
You should report it. First, check the facts as best you can. Then tell the publisher or copyright holder of the specific GPL-covered program."

1. "First, check the facts as best you can."

This really includes contacting the person who may have violated the GPL, pointing out what you think has been done wrong as you have no way of knowing if a specific license have been given to that specific person. And unless the copyright holder have asked for a copyright notice in the documentation, none is really required. Actually, some may not even want to have such a notice included for whatever reason they may have.

2. When you are sure a violation has occured and any possible mistakes haven't been corrected (everyone can make a mistake and I think we all need to be forgiving if the one making a mistake does what they can to make things right, don't you think?) it's time to take some action, which are:

"Then tell the publisher or copyright holder of the specific GPL-covered program."

Conclusion: If we all follow these simple steps, none of these "possible violations" would need to be made public and everyone would be much happier, except maybe for those who think humiliating people in public is a fun thing to do.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 113 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Milke Powell on 08-Oct-2004 04:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (Joe):
Yes "Joe". You are right "Joe".
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 114 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 08-Oct-2004 04:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (Jeffro):
> There was nothing wrong in his moderation, that thread was starting to go round
> in circles. The only reason the thread was carrying on was because fabio
> wouldn't leave the issue alone (as usual) after the issue at hand had already
> been resolved between the respective parties.

Anyone with a brain will see by himself you're just spreading bullshit, then why do you bother at all?
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 115 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-Oct-2004 04:55 GMT
@Bernie Meyer

Before causing more damage. Please try to approach people first via e-mail when infoeming GPL mistakes. PLEASE.

U know, a lot of Amiga developers tend to be a little bit sensitive with everything.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 116 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 08-Oct-2004 05:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (priest):
>Before causing more damage.

What damage.. the damage was fixed, afais. No more GPL violation. Everybodys happy.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 117 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Burström on 08-Oct-2004 06:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (Fabio Alemagna):
>Anyone with a brain will see by himself you're just spreading bullshit, then why do you bother at all?

Do be honest, I consider myself with a brain and I did check the thread. And my impression of the lock is that you and sgm couldn't stop throwing pies at each other. You did have some valid points on GPL and none of those were the cause for the lock.
I feel sorry for you that you didn't get to throw the last pie, but that's life sometimes :-) :-)

To be honest, I think that the comment should have been "The only reason the thread was carrying on was because fabio and sgm wouldn't leave the issue alone" because that looked like the reason for the lock. So the 'bullshit spreader' was imho at least partially right.

rgds,
Stefan
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 118 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 08-Oct-2004 06:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (Stefan Burström):
You got things wrong: I left the issue way before the thread was locked. I had nothing to reply to the latest sgm's message.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 119 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Oct-2004 06:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Anonymous):
Why don't you go back to your nazi world ?
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 120 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by koan on 08-Oct-2004 06:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (priest):
In my view Bernie did the right thing: the facts were already being (hotly) disputed here. He checked his facts and politely pointed out that one side was wrong.

If he was really good mates with the Friedens then he might have replied by private email instead but that's his prerogative.

GPL violations are a serious matter and the sensibilities of those who come to ANN knowing full well that they are going to see flames and trolls get a much lower priority.

By the way, the poster "Harold Shipman GP" should have his IP BANNED. This nick is the name of a mass murderer and pretty sick.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 121 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 08-Oct-2004 06:53 GMT
The problem with the GPL (and why open source might ultimately die), is that unless you follow a very strict set of rules, you end up being threatened with legal action.

I would be quite happy to port stuff, but why the hell should I bother if the minute I release it I get emails telling me that I didn't include the source / GPL notice / that it's GPL and to expect a court summons?
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 122 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 08-Oct-2004 07:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (Rik Sweeney):
Open source die? Yeah, right :-)

As for being afraid of getting "threatening emails": how's that worse than being arrested or fined for infridging on commercial software's copyright?

The concept is very simple: respect the licenses of the software you use, and it's a very general principle, not just the open source's one. It's funny how you think open source software is any worse than closed source software under this respect.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 123 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-Oct-2004 07:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (hooligan/dcs):
"What damage.."

Yet another pissed off Amiga developer.

"No more GPL violation."

No more ScummVM for AmigaOS4.

"Everybodys happy."

I'm not. :)

*******************

I might have been wrong by directing my comment to just one person.
I should have directed it to everybody who brought those two GPL mistakes to public rather than informed the author directly. (surely, if the author ignores it, then go public)
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 124 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-Oct-2004 07:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (koan):
"In my view Bernie did the right thing: the facts were already being (hotly) disputed here."

For both GPL mistakes? (I did not read every comment, sorry)

"If he was really good mates with the Friedens then he might have replied by private email instead but that's his prerogative."

One do not need to be good mates with anyone to be polite enough to send an e-mail.

******************

I might have been wrong by directing my comment to just one person (Bernie).
I should have directed it to everybody who brought those two GPL mistakes to public rather than informed the author directly. (surely, if the author ignores it, then go public)
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 125 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-Oct-2004 07:44 GMT
@everybody

Before causing more damage. Please try to approach people first via e-mail when informing GPL mistakes. PLEASE.

U know, a lot of Amiga developers tend to be a little bit sensitive with everything.


WE NEED DEVELOPERS !
Even the monkey knows it.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 126 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by ikir on 08-Oct-2004 07:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (priest):
Yes totally agree.
I think that we'll see a new version of ScummVM, at least i hope. Yesterday was a bad day.

Nice day to all.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 127 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-Oct-2004 08:06 GMT
As a matter of fact.

Hyperion could offer a small reward to people who manage find GPL "mistake" from their releases and post those findings to Hyperion (instead of posting them to public forums).

Then those people would be doing work for Hyperion. Hyperion could be more relaxed.

And I would not be nagging to ANN peole about pissing off developers.

Everybody would be HAPPY ! "Fun of Computing" U know.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 128 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 08-Oct-2004 08:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 122 (Fabio Alemagna):
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for open source, but as you can see from this thread, some days it can be more trouble than it's worth.

IMHO
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 129 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 08-Oct-2004 08:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (Rik Sweeney):
If you do mistakes, you either fix them, or pay for them. That's a general rule of life. Don't understand why you live under the impression that Open Source should somehow be free from such facts of life.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 130 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 08-Oct-2004 09:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (Fabio Alemagna):
Not everything has to be black or white, common sense and courtesy can and most oftenly do sort out these kind of conflicts quite well. In a strict world, the entire AmigaOne and AmigaOS4 project would have been terminated now because Hyperion would have to spend the next few years paying off damages to the original author of UBoot. In a bit more sensible world, this entire issue wouldn't have made it into the public eye in the first place.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 131 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Harald Frank on 08-Oct-2004 09:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Bernie Meyer):
Hello Mr. Meyer,

to wich contract do you refer here? Did you mean your contract between you,
me and Haage&Partner about the distribution of Amithlon as part of AmigaOSXL
package, which was/is time limited. Or did you refer to the contract between
you an me about Amithlon itself and its legal status which is not limited by
any timeframe?

In either way, i am very interested to hear more. Interesting enough that you
this time publically agree that at least one of your contracts is still valid.

Regards,

Harald Frank
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 132 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 08-Oct-2004 09:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (Sammy Nordström):
> Not everything has to be black or white, common sense and courtesy can and
> most oftenly do sort out these kind of conflicts quite well.

As I've already stated more than once, here and elsewhere, extra courtesy needs to be earned, it's not something that can be taken for granted. Moreover, Bernie did nothing but give a few examples of releases of GPL'd software that are or are not compliant with the GPL. Bernie himself said that he went to look for the good, and found the bad too. Why should he have left the bad off the list? Why should he have taken the burden of privately sending an email to the specific entity whilst all he wanted to do was participating to a discussion on an online forum?

You're just shooting the messenger here, face it.

> In a strict world, the
> entire AmigaOne and AmigaOS4 project would have been terminated now because
> Hyperion would have to spend the next few years paying off damages to the
> original author of UBoot.

That'd be something Hyperion would need to talk about with UBoot's copyright holders. It's not up to us to decide what have to be the consequences of a GPL infridgment, but we can enumerate what can potentially happen.

> In a bit more sensible world, this entire issue wouldn't have made it into the
> public eye in the first place.

It was already into the public eye, as the culprit software release was in the open, for anyone to see. All that happened is that someone talked about it. So what? You are basically proposing that if I see something wrong happening, that anyone can see, I should pretend I've not seen anything and move on? Be serious, please.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 133 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 08-Oct-2004 09:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (Harald Frank):
> In either way, i am very interested to hear more. Interesting enough that you
> this time publically agree that at least one of your contracts is still valid.

No, he said that at least one of its contracts will not be valid out of any doubts in a few days, which doesn't mean it's still valid.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 134 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Burström on 08-Oct-2004 09:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Fabio Alemagna):
>You got things wrong: I left the issue way before the thread was locked. I had nothing to reply to the latest sgm's message.

Perhaps I did get things wrong, but reading the last messages in the locked thread doesn't give you that many ways of interpret things. Besides, one can never know if you had anything to reply since the thread was locked ;)
So before you say that people are spreading bullshit, perhaps you should take a step back and think about the way you present yourself. Oddly enough it has a strong correlation with peoples perseption of you ;)
(And of course, this is regardless if I have got things wrong or not)

rgds,
Stefan
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 135 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Ferry on 08-Oct-2004 10:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Fabio Alemagna):
@Fabio Alemagna

"Why, why should people reserve for you so much friendliness, why should they do to you a so big favour, when your whole stance torwads the GPL is questionable, to say the least?"

I would do it for something that the world seems to be running out of: politeness, courtesy, education. We all are humans and exposed to make errors. What if the person who posted a GPL'ed prog simply forgot about it? Are we REALLY sure that he did it intentionally? Should be him crucified in a public forum for a small mistake? First write to him, and if he persist in the error -and then it's not an error, but intentional-, then make it public and/or report it to the copyright holder.

Of course, it's a different question if the REAL reasons to bring the issue to a public forum is not to warn about a GPL misuse, but to discredit the person who did it.

Some anonymous poster stated something that was not true, or at least inaccurated, regarding UBoot GPL license and its non-inclusion on CVS tree, and HJF already explained the reason for this. To say that your whole stance torwads the GPL is questionable, to say the least is, to say the least, questionable :¬) The GNU GP License is clear on what and what not can be done. If you or anyone have any doubt about it, you can ask about it either the person who is supossedly breaking the GPL (he could give unexpected explanations, like the one HJF gave), or the GNU authorities themselves at gnu@gnu.org. What I do not find fair is to expose the question in a public forum without having tried the other possibilities before.

It's not a real interest about GPL misuse -I cannot see any reference to GPL misuse of any Windows prog, and I guess there are plenty of them if you are really interested in GPL, not to mention other systems...-, it's an interest to drag someone to the mud.

I have a GREAT respect for Bernie Meyer, for his work and for the way he posts, always in a very polite and reasoned way, but even if his intentions were good, not wanting to do any harm to anyone, he gave 'life' to the trolls rantings. Not that he was not right, because he WAS right, some files were missing licensing texts or sources, but I think it has not been a good idea to post his findings in a mud-throwing thread... But, as I said before, we all are exposed to make mistakes at any time: I make many every day... well, at least it's what my wife says... ;¬)

Saluditos,

Ferrán.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 136 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 08-Oct-2004 10:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (Stefan Burström):
So, someone calls me names, and I can't even make a funny remark about it? It's not my fault if one of the latest messages in that thread was mine, if you are so superficial to give that fact more meanings that it really has, I'm sorry but I can't do anything about it.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 137 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by o1i on 08-Oct-2004 10:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (priest):
> @Bernie Meyer

> Before causing more damage. Please try to approach people first via e-mail when
> infoeming GPL mistakes. PLEASE.

> U know, a lot of Amiga developers tend to be a little bit sensitive with
> everything.

But someone stated in a public forum, that he (or his company) do not
breach the GPL.

Bernie corrected that, also in public.

Then someone wanted a proof, that others follow the GPL in the Amiga scene.
He asked for that in a public forum.

Berni did test a few of the newer Software for GPL compiance, and
Bernie replied in that public forum to the question.

*I don't see a problem here*. I see a problem in GPL violation,
without the GPL, there would be no Linux (and no, no free BSDs either).
So the GPL *is* important. Enjoy it and obeye it, or don't use
GPL code. It's as simple as that.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 138 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 08-Oct-2004 10:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 133 (Fabio Alemagna):
Listen to Ferry, Fabio.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 139 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Sammy Nordström on 08-Oct-2004 10:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 137 (o1i):
>But someone stated in a public forum, that he (or his company) do not
>breach the GPL.
>
>Bernie corrected that, also in public.

Yes, but was it neccessary? Couldn't this have been settled by private e-mail or something? It sure could and should, IMO.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 140 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 08-Oct-2004 11:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Ferry):
> I would do it for something that the world seems to be running out of:
> politeness, courtesy, education.

No one has yet explained why would be unpolite to publicly make people notice that a software infridges upon the GPL, specially when it was publicly claimed that such a software didn't infridge upon it.

> We all are humans and exposed to make errors.

Yes, everyone knows it, thus I can't understand the big fuss about it? I mean, someone made a mistake, someone else made him notice it. We all understand people can make mistakes, so what's the problem?

> What if the person who posted a GPL'ed prog simply forgot about it?

Yes, what if? I don't get where are you getting at.

> Are we REALLY sure that he did it intentionally?

And why would it matter anyway?

> Should be him crucified in a public forum for a small mistake?

I haven't seen anyone crucified here. Unless you want to imply that making people notice their mistakes publicly is equivalent to crucifying them, that is.


> First write to him,

Why? Why when he himself stated publicly that the GPL was not being violated? The discussion was public in the first place, why should someone bring it to a private channel if he has no special interest in doing so?

> and if he persist in the error -and then it's not an error, but intentional-,
> then make it public and/or report it to the copyright holder.

The intentionality of the act has no influence on the act itself. Whether or not it was intentional, the mistake needs to be corrected.

> Of course, it's a different question if the REAL reasons to bring the issue to
> a public forum is not to warn about a GPL misuse, but to discredit the person
> who did it.

The reason for doing it, in this case, was an entirely different one. I won't repeat it again, please do your homework and check your facts.


> Some anonymous poster stated something that was not true, or at least
> inaccurated, regarding UBoot GPL license and its non-inclusion on CVS tree,

Yes, so what? He made no accusation of GPL infridgment, he simply stated his dislike for a certain situation.

> and HJF already explained the reason for this.

Yes, but you're forgettig another message. Another person said there was GPL violation going on, and HJF replied, condescendigly, that there was NO asuch a violation. But fact is, there was.

> To say that your whole stance torwads the GPL is questionable, to say the
> least is, to say the least, questionable :¬)

You are mixing issues here. When I say their whole stance torwards the GPL is questionable I talk about the fact they don't release sources together with binaries. Yes, that's GPL-compliant, but then it's the most uncollaborative way to deal with GPL software, and it's also the hardest one. So one, as I've already said, is left to wonder why do they go for the hardest way, when things could be much easier.

> The GNU GP License is clear on what and what not can be done. If you or anyone
> have any doubt about it, you can ask about it either the person who is
> supossedly breaking the GPL (he could give unexpected explanations, like the
> one HJF gave), or the GNU authorities themselves at gnu@gnu.org. What I do not
> find fair is to expose the question in a public forum without having tried
> the other possibilities before.

Questions are questions, I can't see why asking them can be considered "unfair" at all. If you've done nothing wrong, or have nothing to hide, you should have no problems answering to them, right?

And it's not like someone started a thread exactly to talk about GPL issues, the thread was already here, and the GPL issue popped up just because it was related to the thread.

You should also consider that some people don't like Hyperion for whatever reason they want, and thus they don't feel like being "kind" to them in any way. Hyperion should simply live with this fact, and accept that, regardless of the friendliness of people torwards them, mistakes are mistakes, and need to be dealt with.

HJF, in fact, acknowledged his mistake and also admitted that his behaviour online wasn't the most polite one. That's the way to deal with this issue, getting upset about it only serves to create kilometric threads full of people claiming this and that.

> It's not a real interest about GPL misuse -I cannot see any reference to GPL
> misuse of any Windows prog, and I guess there are plenty of them if you are
> really interested in GPL, not to mention other systems...-,

You "guess"? No much use in guessing about irrelevant things, don't you think? Or do you think that someone, just because cares about the GPL, should spend his life hunting all people who infridge upon it? Whenever a case pops up, then the interested people will pop up as well, but only to talk about the case at hand.

As an example: I'm sure you don't like pedofily, do you? Right, you don't. So, why aren't you hunting for pedofilies and reporting them to the police?

If you think pedofily is a mich more important topic than GPL, you're damn right! So if you don't go hunting for pedofiles, despite pedofily being a tragedy, why should I or anyone else go hunting for GPL violators, who can't even compare to pedofiles, importance-wise?

> it's an interest to drag someone to the mud.

It's an interest to debating an issue which is real.

Say I did a mistake, a very blatant one, and someone who doesn't like me points it out. What would have my behaviour to be? Should I claim that person should have talked about it to me privately, or simply humbly apologize for my mistake and remedy to it? I'd go for the latter, it would give a much better image of myself to people and would NOT give the guy who brought up the issue in the first place a further chance to flame me.


> I have a GREAT respect for Bernie Meyer, for his work and for the way he
> posts, always in a very polite and reasoned way, but even if his intentions
> were good, not wanting to do any harm to anyone, he gave 'life' to the trolls
> rantings.

So what, life is tough, if you can't bear with a few trolls you're doomed, my friend. Do you ever put your head out of the door? If you do, you surely know real life is much worse.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 141 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Burström on 08-Oct-2004 11:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 136 (Fabio Alemagna):
>So, someone calls me names, and I can't even make a funny remark about it? It's not my fault if one of the latest messages in that thread was mine, if you are so superficial to give that fact more meanings that it really has, I'm sorry but I can't do anything about it

Look, I never argued what you should or shouldn't do regarding the aw.net comments, but to say "you're just spreading bullshit" perhaps could be rephrased quite abit knowing the fact that you probably had other intentions with your comments.
You are usually very quick to say that people are spreading bullshit or have hidden agendas when people missinterpret you. All I was trying to tell you that you are leaving yourself quite open to missinterpretations. Next time someone comments that, perhaps you should explain what you meant or just leave it instead of starting another pie war.

rgds,
Stefan
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 142 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 08-Oct-2004 11:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (Sammy Nordström):
Lisaten to me, Sammy... err, never mind :-)
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 143 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 08-Oct-2004 11:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (Rik Sweeney):
"I would be quite happy to port stuff, but why the hell should I bother if the minute I release it I get emails telling me that I didn't include the source / GPL notice / that it's GPL and to expect a court summons?"

Just include the source and the license in your archive, and you won't get emails. Simple, really.

I suspect the main reason people don't include the source is that they are afraid their code isn't professional enough to be looked at.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 144 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 08-Oct-2004 11:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (Sammy Nordström):
> Yes, but was it neccessary?

It wasn't "necessary", nothing is "necessary" around here, not even your or my posts are "necessary", however it was the most obvious and simple way to deal with the issue.

> Couldn't this have been settled by private e-mail or something?

Anything could have been done, but people tend to go for the least effort. Anything in nature follows the least effort rule, so do humans. Some humans are bound to the least effort rule so much that they forget about other rules, though (hint hint!) :-)

> It sure could and should, IMO.

Why should? Explain, please. And no, being "polite" is a non-answer: to me, it's not unpolite to talk about it publicly.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 145 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 08-Oct-2004 11:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Ferry):
"It's not a real interest about GPL misuse -I cannot see any reference to GPL misuse of any Windows prog, and I guess there are plenty of them if you are really interested in GPL, not to mention other systems...-, it's an interest to drag someone to the mud."

I would hope that Amiga programmers would be more honest and professional than Windows programmers. Bill Gates has done a great deal to lower the ethical standards of programmers.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 146 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 08-Oct-2004 11:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (Harald Frank):
Fuck off, Harald!(No, we never had a contract. No, the contract with H&P was terminated in April 2002. But come Sunday, even denying that the termination ever took place, as you and your buddies like to do, won't make one iota of difference, because come Sunday, it's over, finito, arrividerci baby, hasta la vista, no more, tonto, kiss my shiny metal ass --- you get the drift. Come Sunday, I can do whatever I bloody well like, and nobody can so much as point at a piece of paper saying "Nope, we have a contract", because come Sunday, there won't be a piece of paper anymore. Not a single piece).Wow, that felt good. Let me say that again, this time with feeling: "FUCK OFF, HARALD!".
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 147 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 08-Oct-2004 11:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 135 (Ferry):
Oops, I hope you didn't just lose your respect for me because of that last comment. I suppose it was less than polite, but believe me, it is still much more polite than a certain individual deserves.
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 148 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 08-Oct-2004 11:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 146 (Bernie Meyer):
Its nice to see you guys can still get along after all the bad blood between you ;-)
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 149 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Harald Frank on 08-Oct-2004 11:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 146 (Bernie Meyer):
Hello Mr. Meyer,

fine to see you rareley showing your real face. So you are still
the same person that told "f*ck you customers, i now make my own
stuff together with sick Ainc".

Look, even if you change your mind 20 times in your life, contract
is contract and you are legally bound to it. You have been paid,
you have taken the money, and after this all, you really f*cked up
all your partners and customers out there.

Does you also think like me, that your "Amiga will sue me for Amithlon
Kickstart use", or "there is no contract", or "Amithlon is all made
by you" nonsense/lies is compareable to mass destruction weapons was
present in Iraqas, or Saddam had Al Quaida connections?!

If you really think you stand outside any law and rules, we have
to see where it ends. And yes, your contract with me.. guess what?
do still exist and is valid after sunday.

Regards,

Harald Frank
New AmigaOne firmware available : Comment 150 of 226ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 08-Oct-2004 12:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 149 (Harald Frank):
>And yes, your contract with me.. guess what?
>do still exist and is valid after sunday.

Harald, do you have a piece of paper?

If yes, I hereby implore you to scan it and post it all over the internet.

If no, however, just fuck off! And in case you didn't quite get what I was saying, I will repeat it for you: Fuck off, if you can't show a piece of paper with my signature on it!

(I suspect regular readers of ann.lu will be somewhat surprised by the frequent use of the F-word in my recent comments; Rest assured that this is purely due to a deepfelt and long-standing aversion to Harald, rather than due to any change in my policy regarding politeness. But politeness is something you *can* earn not being shown)
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