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[News] USB card HIGHWAY is shippingANN.lu
Posted on 30-May-2002 18:58 GMT by kdh news32 comments
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The USB card HIGHWAY is available now ..... The USB card HIGHWAY is available now . KDH Datentechnik has delivered the HIGHWAY board to customers and Amiga dealers who did pre-order the HIGHWAY card.
The scope of delivery includes the USB Stack Poseidon. The currently supported USB devices are listed here.
KDH offers you at a special bundle price the Memorycard-writer/reader device "HexaMedia Drive" from Lacie. This allows you to read in all pictures from your digital cameras into your Amiga and to change or print them with your favorite graphic program.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 1 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-May-2002 17:32 GMT
Fantastic! I will order mine as soon as I get paid... I have a USB zipdrive and USB printer here waiting :)
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 2 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Frank Brockway on 31-May-2002 03:34 GMT
The correct link for the Lacie HEXAmedia Drive is:
http://www.lacie.com/products/product.cfm?id=FBCC21B7-21E5-11D6-97F10090278D3ED0
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 3 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 31-May-2002 08:07 GMT
Is there, or is there going to be, a UK distributor? I want to pay in sterling with a Switch card, so it would need to be from a UK based company...
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 4 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by kdh on 31-May-2002 08:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Peter Gordon):
As of today, we did not receive any Highway/Subway orders from an UK Amiga dealer.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 5 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Thargor on 31-May-2002 09:19 GMT
Is there a bundle FX-Scan 4.0/scanner/Highway or only FX-Scan 4.0/scanner that I can buy? If so, what's the price and where can I get it?
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 6 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by kdh on 31-May-2002 09:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Thargor):
Yes, there will be scanner bundles offered when FX-Scan 4.0 becomes available. Just watch our news and/or ads for availability and prices.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 7 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 31-May-2002 11:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (kdh):
:(
ATTENTION UK AMIGA DEALERS! POTENTIAL CUSTOMER HERE! I HAVE MONEY! ... please?
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 8 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 31-May-2002 13:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Peter Gordon):
Nice try, you deserve at least _something_ for the effort. :)
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 9 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 31-May-2002 14:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
Heh... I just want a Highway, and I want to pay by switch. Is that so much to ask?
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 10 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by José on 31-May-2002 15:11 GMT
I'd buy a subway, but it seems it's only for towers, or I'm wrong?
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 11 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by kdh on 31-May-2002 15:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (José):
Subway fits and works in Zorro II + III boards. A list of the tested Zorro boards can be found <A HREF="http://www.e3b.de/usb/compatibility.html">here</A>.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 12 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by kdh on 31-May-2002 15:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Peter Gordon):
Please try : http://www.forematt.free-online.co.uk/. We dealt with them in the past and they seem to be interested to do some sales in the UK :)
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 13 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by José on 31-May-2002 16:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (kdh):
First thanks for answering. I didn't explain myself, my fault. I have a desktop A1200. I know the board is designed for it's clockport so no problems there. But the board comes with two holding plates,so it's supposedly to towered A1200 motherboards. I'd buy one if not, could you clarify this? I bet there are still a lot of desktop A1200 around.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 14 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by FOREMATT on 31-May-2002 17:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Peter Gordon):
We have just been in discussions with KDH and have obtained permission to be a UK reseller for the USB boards. Unfortunately we cannot take switch but of course you can send a personal cheque. Please go to www.forematt.co.uk for UK price and P&P rates, then email us to reserve it for you if sending a cheque.
FORE-MATT Home Computing
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 15 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Chris on 31-May-2002 18:42 GMT
I wanna have USB in my A4000. I have a Mediator, so Highway is not good enough for me.
Elbox, we need drivers for USB PCI cards!
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 16 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Lee on 31-May-2002 19:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Chris):
I agree. USB should work much better through
a PCI DMA-operating card than through Zorro.
Don't know which chipset Highway has but I
heard it has no support for DMA.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 17 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 31-May-2002 20:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (José):
José:
I wasn't aware the A1200 had a rear expansion port (it's been a few years), but apparently they do: http://www.act-net.com/wenzel/Prl1200_e.html - If that's the case, it should be easy to remove the connectors from the brackets, and mount them into whatever plastic is available (even if you can't use all four ports, you can plug on a USB hub).
Alternatively, if you could get some CAT5 out of the case with less drilling, it looks like you could run 3 ports to an external project box of your choosing, using the last pair for power. (I'm not certain that's 'safe' via the USB spec/design of the card; official opinions, anyone?)
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 18 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Olivier on 31-May-2002 21:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Lee):
USB without DMA is a joke not USB.
A card like that will take over processor's time and when the processor is busy the card will be losing data.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 19 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 31-May-2002 22:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Olivier):
With 64 bytes being transferred *at most* during one packet request (bulk transfer), DMA does not
really make much sense with all the overhead involved -- I'd rather say that the additional interrupt
for the DMA ready request would slow down the transfer more than using the CPU to transfer the data.
Moreover the data cannot be transferred 1:1 to the chip, so DMA would be useless.
 
And no: NO data will be lost at any time (except for Iso transfers, which do not have a guaranteed
reliably constraint anyway). USB is a host driven bus. The host decided if it is able to receive a
packet.
 
As we're speaking of PCI cards: DMA is only possible on certain memory boundaries and USB requests
(like any other arbitrary IO request) are not guaranteed to follow these alignment restrictions.
 
The Highway Zorro card IMHO actually performs quite well. But this is my tainted personal opinion.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 20 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Drago on 31-May-2002 23:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Chris Hodges):
>Moreover the data cannot be transferred 1:1 to the chip, so DMA would be useless.
So, transfer the data to the fast not to the chip :))
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 21 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 01-Jun-2002 06:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Drago):
Argl :) We're not talking about fastmem/chipmem here :)
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 22 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 01-Jun-2002 14:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Chris):
I, too, have a Mediator 4000, but i'd rather not waste a PCI slot on USB. My approach to expanding my Amiga is to only use PCI when it has a clear advantage over a Zorro equivalent, so, I have:
* Voodoo 3 because Zorro gfx cards arent as powerful
* PCI TV card because you can't get Zorro TV cards
* PCI Network card because it costs 1/10th of an X-Surf
But, I have (and intend to get):
* Repulse, because it is a better card than an SB128
* FastATA 4000, because I've had it longer than the mediator, and there are no PCI IDE drivers.
* Highway USB, because USB is very slow anyway, so theres no advantage to PCI, so theres no need to waste a PCI slot on it.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 23 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Lee on 01-Jun-2002 14:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Chris Hodges):
>With 64 bytes being transferred *at most* during
>one packet request (bulk transfer), DMA does not
>really make much sense with all the overhead
>involved -- I'd rather say that the additional
>interrupt for the DMA ready request would slow
>down the transfer more than using the CPU to
>transfer the data.
Why are you talking only about one-packet
request?
In most cases, the HUB sends or receives multi-packet
transfers to/from the USB devices (cameras, scanners,
printers).
An USB PCI card in the DMA mode watches over the
packet transfer itself, and the processor receives
an interrupt when the whole pre-set buffer (often
with *thousands* of packets) is received or
transferred.
>Moreover the data cannot be transferred 1:1 to
> the chip, so DMA would be useless.
If this is true, it's only the Highway chipset's
fault.
USB PCI cards work in the DMA mode, so they collect
or deposit data packets directly to/from the buffer
in the computer RAM without occupying processor's
time.
>And no: NO data will be lost at any time (except
>for Iso transfers, which do not have a guaranteed
Problems with ISO transfers you are writing about
indicate that Highway will not work correctly with
USB cameras, etc., allowing only for the lowest
resolution transfers and with very slow refreshing.
Otherwise, data will be lost.
>As we're speaking of PCI cards: DMA is only possible
>on certain >memory boundaries and USB requests (like
>any other arbitrary IO request) are not guaranteed
>to follow these alignment restrictions.
What problem with alignment? This problem does not
occur in any computers, even in PCs, not to mention
Amiga machines.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 24 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Lee on 01-Jun-2002 14:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Chris Hodges):
>With 64 bytes being transferred *at most* during
>one packet request (bulk transfer), DMA does not
>really make much sense with all the overhead
>involved -- I'd rather say that the additional
>interrupt for the DMA ready request would slow
>down the transfer more than using the CPU to
>transfer the data.
Why are you talking only about one-packet
request?
In most cases, the HUB sends or receives multi-packet
transfers to/from the USB devices (cameras, scanners,
printers).
An USB PCI card in the DMA mode watches over the
packet transfer itself, and the processor receives
an interrupt when the whole pre-set buffer (often
with *thousands* of packets) is received or
transferred.
>Moreover the data cannot be transferred 1:1 to
> the chip, so DMA would be useless.
If this is true, it's only the Highway chipset's
fault.
USB PCI cards work in the DMA mode, so they collect
or deposit data packets directly to/from the buffer
in the computer RAM without occupying processor's
time.
>And no: NO data will be lost at any time (except
>for Iso transfers, which do not have a guaranteed
Problems with ISO transfers you are writing about
indicate that Highway will not work correctly with
USB cameras, etc., allowing only for the lowest
resolution transfers and with very slow refreshing.
Otherwise, data will be lost.
>As we're speaking of PCI cards: DMA is only possible
>on certain >memory boundaries and USB requests (like
>any other arbitrary IO request) are not guaranteed
>to follow these alignment restrictions.
What problem with alignment? This problem does not
occur in any computers, even in PCs, not to mention
Amiga machines.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 25 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 01-Jun-2002 15:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Lee):
> Why are you talking only about one-packet request?
Because you have no idea on how the chip on the Highway works. It's neither
UHCI nor OHCI.
> An USB PCI card in the DMA mode watches over the
> packet transfer itself, and the processor receives
> an interrupt when the whole pre-set buffer (often
> with *thousands* of packets) is received or
> transferred.
The Highway is different. AFAIK PCI cards do not have their
own memory and therefore have no other means than to
transfer the packets to main memory directly.
> If this is true, it's only the Highway chipset's fault.
You're free to build your own USB Zorro card. You're also
free to design the required and expensive bus controller
logic to interface between the usb host controller and
the mc68k/zorro bus to allow word or longword accesses.
Especially when the chip is little endian and only has
got an 8 bit data path.
> Problems with ISO transfers you are writing about
> indicate that Highway will not work correctly with
> USB cameras, etc., allowing only for the lowest
> resolution transfers and with very slow refreshing.
> Otherwise, data will be lost.
Again: You have not enough information to make such claims.
> What problem with alignment? This problem does not
> occur in any computers, even in PCs, not to mention
> Amiga machines.
Have you written a driver for a PCI card using DMA? No? Sorry, then
you don't know what you're talking about. Just ask Frank Mariak/VGR
about DMA alignment restrictions.
It might sound a bit offensive and it probably is, but this is my last
posting on this topic. I'm not going to argue about "the Highway sucks
compared to PCI USB cards" with you. The Highway is a fine card and it
IMHO does perform well.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 26 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Chris on 01-Jun-2002 17:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Peter Gordon):
>* Highway USB, because USB is very slow anyway, so theres no advantage to PCI, so theres no need to waste a PCI slot on it.
HighWay is a USB 1.1 card. It's really very slow.
Even slower when the card does not work in DMA.
But at half the price of HighWay you can have a USB 2.0 PCI card.
And USB 2.0 is 40 times faster than USB 1.1!
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 27 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Böhmer on 01-Jun-2002 19:26 GMT
Now it seems to be the time to answer questions...
@Lee: unfortunately you didn't want to show your eMail address, so I have to address you directly here: your claims about the card are pure speculation.
Maybe you contact me directly so we can get these misinformation out of the word. You should only talk about things you have knowledge of.
(For the meantime, read the USB specs on ISO transfers. They are made explicitly for data which can be lost. ISO transfers are not guaranteeing anything like correct or in-time delivery. They are even not protected by CRC at all. That's what bulk transfers were made for.)
@Chris: Yes, you are right that you can get a PCI 2.0 card for less money.
Might have to do something with the fact that PCI cards are built with 10000 units and not the small number we have in todays Amiga market. Might also be connected with the fact that PCI chips have all the bus logic integrated and so you don't need to think about different busboards and their quirks.
And... maybe you tell me where you will get a driver for this cheap PCI 2.0 card ?
I would prefer if people would ask the guys who made the board before starting speculations and "hey let's talk it bad" actions on public boards.
We (i.e. Chris and me) are both open for discussions, as long as they are based on more than rumours. Feel free to contact us.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 28 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Lee on 03-Jun-2002 11:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Chris Hodges):
>You're free to build your own USB Zorro card. You're also
>free to design the required and expensive bus controller
>logic to interface between the usb host controller and
>the mc68k/zorro bus to allow word or longword accesses.
>Especially when the chip is little endian and only has
>got an 8 bit data path.
Why make up a USB card from the scratch?
All this 'expensive bus controller logic' is
built in any PCI bridge for Amiga and we have plenty
of them now ;-)
Prices for these bridges are really low for what they offer.
You can simply put the cheapest USB PCI PCI card into such
a bridge. The cards with 4 USB ports go for about $10.
You get a regular 32bit HUB with hardware DMA and not
a simplified HUB with an 8bit data bus.
>> Problems with ISO transfers you are writing about
>> indicate that Highway will not work correctly with
>> USB cameras, etc., allowing only for the lowest
>> resolution transfers and with very slow refreshing.
>> Otherwise, data will be lost.
>Again: You have not enough information to make such claims.
You've said it yourself that the chip in the Highway
does not guarantee real-time ISO transfers.
So instead of writing that I have not enough information
write openly which chipset Highway is built around.
>Just ask Frank Mariak/VGR
>about DMA alignment restrictions.
All the info on the necessary alignments when using
USB PCI chipsets are clearly specified in the docs
for these chipsets. The docs are widely available in
their producers' websites.
>I'm not going to argue about "the Highway sucks
>compared to PCI USB cards" with you. The Highway
>is a fine card and it IMHO does perform well.
I don't say Highway does not work, I only wonder
what is the use of starting manufacturing a new
piece of hardware which is less functional and more
expensive now that PCI bridges are available.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 29 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Lee on 03-Jun-2002 11:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Michael Böhmer):
>For the meantime, read the USB specs on ISO transfers.
>They are made explicitly for data which can be lost.
>ISO transfers are not guaranteeing anything like
>correct or in-time delivery. They are even not protected
>by CRC at all. That's what bulk transfers were made for.
I know what ISO transfer means.
I also know the source of problems with these
transfers in simplified USB controllers.
New controllers, like those installed in PCI
USB cards, support ISO transfers with higher
priorities than bulk transfers not to lose
data. This concerns video or sound data usually.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 30 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Böhmer on 03-Jun-2002 19:02 GMT
@Lee: I repeat my offer for a discussion by email. <BR>
Feel free to contact me.<BR>
I won't discuss these issues on an anonymous forum with someone who is not even willing to show who he is in real life by frankly showing its email address. I prefer to know whom I am talking to. I guess that is not too much to ask for.
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 31 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Lee on 03-Jun-2002 23:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Michael Böhmer):
>@Lee: I repeat my offer for a discussion by email. <BR>
>Feel free to contact me.<BR>
>I won't discuss these issues on an anonymous forum
If you do not want to discuss Highway in ANN,
why this news is posted here?
This is a place for many anonymous Amiga users,
why do you not want them to learn more about
USB controllers?
Honestly, I feel that the way you show Highway here
is not quite fair for those who are thinking about
buying it.
The information about the Highway's chipset is being
made so secret. Then, finding reliable and objective
information about advantages and shortcomings of
this hardware is difficult.
The only thing written here is that it is an old-design
chipset (neither UHCI nor OHCI), with the data bus
limited to 8 bits, without DMA support.
My feeling is that you'd better answer openly the
questions here and not remain in declaration of
openness to discussions.
>with someone who is not even willing to show who he
>is in real life by frankly showing its email address.
>I prefer to know whom I am talking to.
>I guess that is not too much to ask for.
I don't give my address when I discuss things publicly
like here.
I would welcome your invitation to correspond if
you were an interesting fair-hair angel, but your
name suggests I won't be satisfied in this ...
so why don't we stick to the USB controllers?
USB card HIGHWAY is shipping : Comment 32 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 04-Jun-2002 07:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Lee):
Nothing Is Good Enough (Aimee Mann)
Once upon a time is how it always goes
but I'll make it brief
what was started out with such excitement
now I'd gladly end with relief
in what now has become a familiar motif:
That nothing is good enough
for people like you
who have to have someone take the fall
and something to sabotage--
determined to lose it all
Critics at their worst could never criticize
the way that you do
no, there's no one else, I find,
to undermine or dash a hope
quite like you
and you do it so casually, too
Cause nothing is good enough
for people like you
who have to have someone take the fall
and something to sabotage--
determined to lose it all
Ladies and gentlemen--
here's exhibit A
didn't I try again?
And did the effort pay?
Wouldn't a smarter man
simply walk away?
It doesn't really help that you can never say
what you're looking for
but you'll know it when you hear it,
know it when you see it walk through the door
So you say--
so you've said many times before
But nothing is good enough
for people like you
who have to have someone take the fall
and something to sabotage--
Anonymous, there are 32 items in your selection
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