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[Rant] AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web siteANN.lu
Posted on 06-Jun-2002 04:30 GMT by Seehund280 comments
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AmigaPOP.8bit.co.uk is finally online!

Here you'll hopefully find all information you could possibly want about the "AmigaOS distribution policies and POP/PPC hardware petition". I hope the background information and FAQ will be especially helpful to clear up any confusion surrounding these issues.

If you have not yet signed the petition, then please do so now! Please help spreading the word by linking to AmigaPOP.8bit.co.uk. It's not too late to save our favourite OS and a unified POP-based hardware market!

In other news, I have finally managed to get in touch with the PetitionOnline.com administrators. The few abuse and sabotage attempts so far have been removed from the signatory listings. Not that any garbage would ever reach the recipient of our petition, but I understand some thought that it didn't look too good...
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 51 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Tbone on 06-Jun-2002 08:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Bladerunner):
@bladerunner
"Got the point? I hope so..Would be better for me, if i could explain it in german ;-))"
Yep, I wasn't disagreeing with you, just wondering ;)
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 52 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Douglas McLaughlin on 06-Jun-2002 08:53 GMT
Oh Goodie!! Another petition to boycott!!!
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 53 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Robert on 06-Jun-2002 09:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Don Cox):
Hi Don,
> Amiga users think so too.
Yeah, but Amiga have been overpriced for years.
The last person I know to buy an Amiga, about 5 yrs ago, bought an Escom A1200 with 040 & 16meg RAM plus a 240meg HD.
It cost the best part of £1000. Without a monitor!
So should we all just buy pc's because you get more mHz for your £ ??
Cheers,
Robert
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 54 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by anarchic_teapot on 06-Jun-2002 09:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Tbone):
>Because it requires the manufacturer to create a separate product line, even >Eyetech has to have separate boards for POP, and AmigaOS. Separate BIOS's have >to be produced for each one.
Nonsense. The AmigaOne *is* a POP board, whether it has the Amiga ROM installed or not. The ROM protection code isn't instead of OpenFirmware boot code, but in _addition_ to it. Adding the Amiga ROM enables the board to run AOS4+.
Also, don't confuse BIOS and OpenFirmware: BIOS (there are several) are proprietary, and apply to x86 boards intended to run some flavour of Windows.
There is no requirement to have a separate product line. The boards will quite happily run Linux as-is. Eyetech - or anyone else prepared to produce mobos guaranteed to run AOS correctly - don't have to produce non-AOS-enabled if they don't want to.
If the demand is big enough, they will. Meantime, it's in everyone's interest - including yours and Seehund's - to have a minimal, non-invasive, form of copy protection for AOS *so that Amiga and its partners can make enough money for the Amiga to continue to exist*.
In the meantime, I don't see Eyetech complaining about the hypothetical extra problems this ROM might involve.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 55 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 06-Jun-2002 09:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Georg Steger):
MAI's chipsets are not intended for desktop computers.
They are intended for embedded systems plus they support not only PPC but also MIPS and x86.
Think, then post.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 56 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by anarchic_teapot on 06-Jun-2002 09:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Don Cox):
> You have it the wrong way round - Windows is a BIOS-compatible OS.
Fair enough, Don, but you might have taken a bit more time to read my post. I didn't say BIOS are Windows-specific.
And it doesn't change the basic argument: that the mobos you can buy in the shops are *already* validated for use with Windows (all the other OSes have to jump on the bandwagon as best they may).
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 57 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 06-Jun-2002 09:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (anarchic_teapot):
Anarchic_t
Agreed. These guys cling on to the last vestige of ill informed fud from the pro BPlan/MorphOS lobby and no truth will ever change it. Examples?
- The fact that they still go on about needing to modify the hardware to support AOS4.
- The fact that they still wont accept that the A1 is a POP board EVEN though they go on about it being no different from Mais POP board ( it is different but still POP actually ).
- The fact that they go on about draconian licensing terms. They are? How? No one has uttered one convincing word that makes it sound draconian.
- The fact that some still havent got their heads around the difference between hardware manufacturers, vendors and software makers despite having it explained [n] times.
Do any of you really think that just because cheapo hardware company X produces a new motherboard with no existing market that an OS provider should go out there and ensure it runs on that board? No. If you produce a board you should have to strike a business deal with the OS provider. It has to be financially beneficial for both parties to do the deal.
Its business not charity - get it through your heads!
Dave.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 58 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 06-Jun-2002 09:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Tbone):
>Eyetech/Amiga haven't promoted the technology of the POP platform at all, if >you'd care to ask MAI, all the advancements in POP architecture (the chipsets) >were developed indipendantly of Amiga/Eyetech, and wern't influenced by Amiga at >all, both were already available/in development before Eyetech decided to use >them. neither chipset ever even anticipated being used in an Amiga, by it's >manufacturers.
Facts please!
MAI's excellent technology was intended not for POP but for embedded systems running three possible CPU architectures.
MAI never had any intention of mass-producing these POP based evaluation boards until Eyetech came along.
Why?
No demand.
So your so-called advancements of the POP boards are a fortunate by-product of MAI's focus on embedded systems, nothing more.
Thanks to Eyetech and OS 4 POP boards will finally be mass-produced for desktop use.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 59 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Menthos on 06-Jun-2002 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Tbone):
> If running OS4 on a motherboard didn't involve commitment from the
> manufacturer to tailor to Amiga's license, and instead just allowed it to run
> unmodified on it's existing product line, the bar would be lowered for other
> entries into the market we could benefit from.
/no fact warningON
I think I have read somewhere that you (dealers?) could get an licens from Amiga Inc. for other motherboards even if you are not the manufacturer of the board.
That is, you can sell boards with AOS4 if you get a license for those...
/no fact warningOFF
/Menthos
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 60 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by MasterOfReality on 06-Jun-2002 10:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (Menthos):
Edit out the <nofact> bits and your post would be perfect.
You're exactly right.
Imagine you're a dealer. You see a nice cheap POP board and want to
sell it as an A1. You phone up Ben and ask him to get a HAL written.
You put him in touch with the manufacturer. He asks you to put a
little USB thingy in the box with the OS. You do it. You sell the POP
board. You sell the OS separately is you want 'cos the POP board
won't run it without the USB thingy. You phone up Amiga and get the
branding licence. Everyone's happy.
Unless they're so stupid that they can read something 10000000 times
and still not get it.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 61 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Menthos on 06-Jun-2002 10:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (MasterOfReality):
I didn't want to post it as a fact as I don't really know where I read it and who wrote it, but I rememered I thought "That's really good!". =)
/Menthos
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 62 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 06-Jun-2002 11:23 GMT
If you want to be cheap what the hell are you doing in the amiga community?
The fact is theres not many of us , things cost alot more and those sales have to happen for there to be anymore such things.
So give it up and buy an amigaONE or os4 for current ppc's then run lots of tasty hyperion games on it ( which you've legally purchased ofcourse ) and feel good knowing that the amiga companies here today will hopefully be there next week and the week after :)
/me wonders if i can get someone to swap this blizzard for one with scsi hehe
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 63 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 06-Jun-2002 11:42 GMT
I can't be bothered to sign onto the petition for reasons I've already made clear; though I see the arguments have been reasoned well, it's far too much of a mess- a business listens to its customers foremost, and Amiga has yet to establish any on the OS4/A1 front, for obvious reasons. Many of the signatories don't even understand the issue at hand, given the comments about iBooks and x86 ports.
I'm a customer, but strangely, there's no incentive to satisfy *me*- I bought the PartyPack, so presuming I can be replaced by one other sale, that's +$100 for Amiga. Not a conspiracy, but if I speak my mind, someone will surely bring the refund up as a reason I shouldn't complain.
In any case, it's a shame, because the noise drowns out comments as important as Ross Heinlein's. What is the official response to that?- Must he enter a partnership with Amiga to legally support OS4, and if so, doesn't that semantically conclude that Amiga is limiting itself to its partners? :}
Again, here's what I don't understand. The rationale is to prevent piracy, yet 1. manufacturers/dealers must license OS4 for each unit sold anyway, and 2. any such token will be useless at authenticating users for upgrade purposes.
Let me elaborate.
If 1 holds true at a manufacturing level, things are paid up in full long before nearly anyone shady is involved. A shady manufacturer would certainly be able to duplicate any ROM they could obtain access to (if the ROMs are seperate physical tokens shipped by Amiga), and even if individual manufacturer keys were used, they could purchase a competing product and clone its ROM. As failure to adhere to the licensing terms is contract violation in itself, this adds no further protection (and violations are equally detectable/indetectable either way; they can be detected by OS4 revenues vs. board sales or token shipments vs. board sales). In fact, the take on this scheme seems to be that it is benevolent, allowing a manufacturer opportunity to ship 'bare' POP boards safe in the knowledge that they will not owe licensing due to incompatibility; the trouble/benefit, depending which side of the fence you're on, is that Eyetech is the only manufacturer with such an Amiga-centric business model. In the conventional market, board manufacture and system building are often handled by unrelated companies, and the builder is expected to pay licensing on systems that- surprise- are sold with licenses. If you have the monopoly power of Microsoft, you can dictate more profitable terms; if you lack that power, it's yet to be proven that the method can grow your own monopoly. Even MS was shipping DOS for half a decade before they weaseled exclusive (no dual-boot, no competing sales) contracts from OEMs, and so far as I know they never went after the boardmakers.
If 1 holds true at the system-builder/dealer level, then it is presumably possible for a shady or unapproved builder to get hold of ROMmed hardware (maybe it fell off the back of a truck...), and sell OS4 on the systems without paying the appropriate license. At best, Amiga can penalize the manufacturer for letting things Slip Into the Wrong Hands. However, as the Amithlon dispute can demonstrate (if you squint enough), the market lacks diversity to route around the loss of a supplier. There's no competition for what Amithlon provides, so if *those* (virtualized) ROMs were at the crux of the matter, Amiga had to choose to kill an entire sector of the market (transparent operation on x86) in the process. In this case, it works to their benefit, but what happens when the company in question is the manufacturer of the only Amiga laptop, AutoPC, wearable, or whatever else distinguishes hardware products? The impulse to grant hardware satrapies (whether intentional or not; see my comment on Eyetech being in the 'Yoko Ono' position- what benefits a hardware company is not what benefits a software company) reinforces this fragility.
With that out of the way, let's consider where piracy comes from. Barring organized crime, it surfaces among end-users and the occasional shady dealership (as stated above, ROMs do little directly to control the dealer, it all comes at the expense of the manufacturer, if it comes at all). Assuming a good majority of end-users continue to purchase preassembled systems, OS4 revenue is guaranteed on each sale. However, presumably there will be a point when a new OS (OS5?) is put up for sale, and this is where point 2 hits; either you have the problem of distributing new physical tokens, or distributing virtual tokens (FlashROM code) in a secure manner. This is complicated, perhaps a bit expensive, a pain for the end user, and if a USB dongle would be used, it raises the question of why the hardware manufacturer had to go through the trouble in the first place.
None of this is to say that going full POP won't be subject to all the issues that this scheme *doesn't* fully address. Making OS4 sale a requirement on all things bearing the Amiga name (especially at the approved-dealer level) takes care of many of them, irrespective of hardware approvals, and granting rights to use the Amiga name only after testing is another good idea. Requiring a disclaimer with all sales of OS4 off-the-shelf ("This software is only guaranteed when used in conjunction with approved hardware..") and with *unapproved* hardware ("This hardware has not been approved by Amiga Inc. for use with AmigaOS; all guarantees of suitability are void...") is a great idea, as is publicizing the approval campaign rather than this silly DRM stuff.
Here's an idea: The best way to win legal customers is to make legality easy and convenient. Certain popular OSes allow the option of an 'FTP install;' the user writes a single floppy image from their OS of choice, boots it, and the OS downloads itself to their system. To my knowledge, no commercial OS has tried this, but imagine- the floppy boots Linux, a cut-down Amiga kernel, or even AA/DE/Elate, scans the hardware's PnP codes, checks for a hardware approval (in the sense of the EPA's Energy Star logo program, for example, rather than this 'important chunks of OS4' business), and perhaps looks for an existing installation for upgrade discount purposes. After examining things, there's a chance for a bouncing, nervous, or deflated boing ball, depending whether the system checks out as Approved, Capable (supported chipset and devices), or Incapable (unsupported chipset, say). Then, assuming the system is approved, or the user agrees to the disclaimer on the 'nervous' screen- here's the magic- the disk establishes a SSL connection to Amiga.com, displays a menu of available products (say OS4.6 recommended, with an option for the OS5 Public Beta), asks for billing details and whether you'd like to pay $5 more for a mailed CD, and gives you a reattempt code in case the download fails*. Bam- you've got AmigaOS, even if you began as a Linux user, and it only cost you $30 because of the lower distribution costs and increased revenues from sales to other converts from outside the market. ;)
*Here's the magic- the restart code is random, combined with your billing details and run through a one-way hash. Amiga only stores the hash of your billing information, protecting your privacy, but can monitor the randomly generated restart codes for suspicious activity, with the ability to catch someone in the act if they need to reinstall every 30 minutes from 9 to 5... While a pirate could buy a copy and 'liberate' the code (as happens with commercial games), users who could afford the download (those with a hope of being a paying customer) would shell out for the ease of the process and the guarantee of an uncompromised version. Retail, in turn, could ship a $100 version with BoingBags and those full manuals we all want, and 'Lite' CD-only OEM-type packs (quite cheap to distribute, and good for being legal on second or third computers/keeping those without DSL satisfied) at the price of the download. Considering we'll get 'deflated boing' on anything without an Articia S and 686B at the moment, is there really much to fear? Indeed, if the install floppy failed to boot at all, it'd be a good indication that someone's hardware was incompatible..
A bit of a rant, to be sure, but I can't accept Heretic as a good comparison to OS4. I know this will change no minds at present (which is why I'm embarassed to have wasted my time on it), but let's see what things look like after the first 6 months of sales...
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 64 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Lukas Stehlik on 06-Jun-2002 12:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Hi Ben!
You wrote:
> The OEM policy adopted by Amiga at least means that every time you buy an
> AmigaOne, you're buying AmigaOS 4 and are thereby compensating the hard work
> of some 30 developers.
Ok, its nice, but I WOULD LIKE TO BUY AmigaOS4 for my ordered Pegasos! I think, that this OEM policy is because of AmigaONE -> Pegasos supporting AOS4 would be killer solution for G3-SE. AmigaOS4 is powerful project! Every amigan, who I know, would like to buy it for Amiga classic + PPC or A1 or Pegasos, which is also an Amiga - it was created by well known Amiga developers and I would
like to support both -> AmigaOS & Pegasos. No piracy!
Please, keep the momentum going!
Have a good time!
Lukas Stehlik
PS: Sorry for my bad english.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 65 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 06-Jun-2002 12:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Lukas Stehlik):
You have noone but bPlan to blame for their hardware not beeing compatible with AmigaOS4 because they won't even send the developerboard Hyperion ordered. Hyperion cannot fly without an airplane and they cannot make AmigaOS4 compatible with hardware without support from the hardware manufacturer, period. You should make a new partition telling bPlan that you wan't AmigaOS4 support for your Pegasos as neither Amiga Inc. or the AmigaOS4 development team is responsible for bPlan's customers. Whatever you do, please stop this nonsense at once!
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 66 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Menthos on 06-Jun-2002 12:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Lukas Stehlik):
If you want Pegasos to run OS4 I guess you must pursuade bPlan to accpet the license that Amiga Inc. are offering.
This license is the same for everybody who wants to have OS4 to run on their boards and "guaranties" that you will not be screwed by bad companies.
My guess is that bPlan don't want this commitments stated in the license (why I don't know) as they don't get a license.
I also must say that I don't know what more is in the license contract, but it can't be all that bad because Eyetech have signed it and are not complaining...
/Menthos
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 67 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 06-Jun-2002 12:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (Samface):
Bleh! Of course I meant petition, not "partition"... :-P
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 68 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 06-Jun-2002 12:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Don Cox):
>Amiga users think so too.
I don't. I think the price is right for a product that cannot be mass produced.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 69 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by sutro on 06-Jun-2002 13:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Joe "Floid" Kanowitz):
Your comment was so long that I gave up on reading after the 30th line even though it seemed like a well-put opinion.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 70 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 06-Jun-2002 13:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Lukas Stehlik):
>Ok, its nice, but I WOULD LIKE TO BUY AmigaOS4 for my ordered Pegasos!
yeah, tough luck, guess what? I would like to buy AmigaOS4 for my Cray II but it's not supported. Guess I should complain to Hyperion, too, huh?
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 71 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Lukas Stehlik on 06-Jun-2002 13:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (Samface):
Ok. But the licence is unacceptable for bPlan, because they would must sell their Pegasos with AmigaOS4 and not with their MoprhOS - they must pay the development of MOS. The solution is stop killing MOS and let Amiga users to choose their own board (A1/Pegasos) and operating system (MOS/AOS4) -> to sell AmigaOS4 alone for Pegasos like for classic Amiga PPC users.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 72 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Lukas Stehlik on 06-Jun-2002 13:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (amigammc):
Cray II is not an Amiga, Pegasos is!
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 73 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Besserwisser on 06-Jun-2002 13:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (amigammc):
oh yeah what a stupid comment mr. amigamcc
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 74 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Lukas Stehlik on 06-Jun-2002 13:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (Menthos):
>This license ... "guaranties" that you will not be screwed by bad companies.
Bad companies??? Stop the nonsence!
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 75 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Menthos on 06-Jun-2002 13:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Lukas Stehlik):
What????
What do the license have to do with MorphOS? (as I said before I don't know the terms)
But I don't think there is anything in the license about restrictions on other OS'es and why should there be?
/Menthos
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 76 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Menthos on 06-Jun-2002 13:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Lukas Stehlik):
Nonsens? Please explain...
/Menthos
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 77 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Jun-2002 13:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (Menthos):
>What????
>What do the license have to do with MorphOS?
>(as I said before I don't know the terms)
>But I don't think there is anything in the license about
>restrictions on other OS'es and why should there be?
Second point of the licence:
Such hardware and its distributors must be approved and licensed by Amiga Inc. and the hardware distributors must also sell and support AmigaOS4.
!!!
This is unacceptable for Pegasos and MOS developers.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 78 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Lukas Stehlik on 06-Jun-2002 13:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (Menthos):
>What????
>What do the license have to do with MorphOS?
>(as I said before I don't know the terms)
>But I don't think there is anything in the license about
>restrictions on other OS'es and why should there be?
Second point of the licence:
Such hardware and its distributors must be approved and licensed by Amiga Inc. and the hardware distributors must also sell and support AmigaOS4.
!!!
This is unacceptable for Pegasos and MOS developers.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 79 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 06-Jun-2002 13:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
OK Ben, just how is this hardware, once the end user has bought/install it and the other components any cheaper then a low end iMac?
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 80 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 06-Jun-2002 13:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Lukas Stehlik):
Once again you have misunderstood things and state it as "facts"...
The license does NOT restrict the hardware from use with other operating systems.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 81 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Lukas Stehlik on 06-Jun-2002 13:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (Menthos):
>Nonsens? Please explain...
bPlan is not bad company, their product is much better than A1G3-SE.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 82 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 06-Jun-2002 13:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Lukas Stehlik):
Yes, they have to sell AmigaOS4. How does that prove that they can't sell other operating systems as well? Let me give you a hint: Eyetech is going to bundle one version of the AmigaOneG3SE with Linux too. How is that possible when using your logic?
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 83 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Lukas Stehlik on 06-Jun-2002 13:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Samface):
>The license does NOT restrict the hardware from use with other operating systems.
But they must support AmigaOS4 and IT IS UNACCEPTABLE for MorphOS developers.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 84 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 06-Jun-2002 13:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Lukas Stehlik):
">This license ... "guaranties" that you will not be screwed by bad companies.
Bad companies??? Stop the nonsence! "
Well say a company ships you something that looks like it fell out of a yeti's arse and runs just aswell , Amiga inc finds out takes away the companies license and the company gets *done over*if they continue to ship aos stuff.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 85 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Lukas Stehlik on 06-Jun-2002 13:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (Lukas Stehlik):
>Eyetech is going to bundle one version of the AmigaOneG3SE with Linux too
Ok, you are right. But this is because of A1 doesnt run on another OS
and Pegasos was shipped...
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 86 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Menthos on 06-Jun-2002 13:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Lukas Stehlik):
Well, I don't know what is wrong with this... If they want AOS4 to run they must have a "thing" (ROM/dongle) that makes it run AOS. If it has this "thing" it must be sold with AOS4 and have some sort of support for it.
It sounds great... But if they don't like to have support for it (if they want it to run AOS4 they should have support for it, everything else is stupid) or don't want to sell AOS4 with the boards (with the "thing") it is really their own problem. The license don't seems so restrictive to me... =/
/Menthos
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 87 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 06-Jun-2002 13:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Lukas Stehlik):
That's your opinion about bPlan. However, that was not the point and bPlan wasn't even mentioned, they just want to protect their product from unreliable dealers. Why do you get offended by that, do you feel that someone might think of bPlan as unreliable? Would they have a reason?
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 88 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Menthos on 06-Jun-2002 13:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Lukas Stehlik):
Did I say that bPlan is bad? NO! Read my posts before you comment!
/Menthos
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 89 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Lukas Stehlik on 06-Jun-2002 13:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (Menthos):
But you were speaking about bPlan and then about bad companies, which will be stopped by the licence. Or not?
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 90 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Menthos on 06-Jun-2002 13:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (cOrpse):
From Executive Update from amiga.com
"The first measure we are announcing is that we have pledged ourselves to the production and development of a platform where both users and developers are guaranteed not just a quality product but a total quality experience as well. This will be achieved through a combination of a strict set of Quality Assurance certifications and the AmigaOS only being available to licensed solution providers for the shipping of combined hardware and software solutions."
My translation over this was that the license did put some (legal) responsability in the licensees hands. As stated I don't know the specific contractual aspect of the licens so I really don't know.
/Menthos
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 91 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 06-Jun-2002 13:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (Lukas Stehlik):
They can sell both AmigaOS4 bundled and MorphOS bundled versions of the Pegasos, what's the problem? Well, that doesn't matter really as that isn't Amiga Inc.'s problem anyway. Do you want Amiga Inc. to allow bundling of AmigaOS4 along with a competing product? Sure, I'm confident Microsoft would allow you to bundle Windows along with Linux or QNX... get a clue, will ya?
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 92 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Menthos on 06-Jun-2002 13:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Lukas Stehlik):
My fault if you understood it like that.
My point was that the license is there to stop unreliable (bad?) companies to ship hardware for AOS4, example: with no support. Nothing to do with bPlan, just general.
I guess bPlan did have something they did not like in the license but I can't understand it... =(
/Menthos
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 93 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 06-Jun-2002 13:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Lukas Stehlik):
">Nonsens? Please explain...
bPlan is not bad company, their product is much better than A1G3-SE. "
I think you misunderstand the scope of bplans board ...
Take a look at : http://www.thendic-france.com/Tech/US/Products/Eclipsis/eclipsis.htm
The boards more of a central development station then anything else with a positive ( to amiga users anyways ) side effect of running an os that allows for most 3.x amiga os applications to run.
The amiga one is a product geared *only* towards end amiga users , whereas bplan are also looking for users in industry. Therefor the amigaONe should really be the AOL of amigaOS compatiable solutions and the peagsos being for those that specificly want it or have reason to choose it e.g. compact servers , media terminals etc...
I don't see what the fuss is with the rom protection anyways , its not like I can walk into pc world and compair a wide range of amigaOS suitable motherboards , theres 2 solutions , Aone and pegasos ; I'd like to see AmigaOS4 running on the pegasos but you have to think weither a company would really support something that has the potential to take away a cut of their customers and the same applies to the aone and morphos. This isn't mates , its biz'niz aye.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 94 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Lukas Stehlik on 06-Jun-2002 13:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Samface):
>... bPlan wasn't even mentioned
It is naturally.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 95 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 06-Jun-2002 13:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (dammy):
Where did I claim it was?
I compared it to similar Amiga hardware that was sold in the past like the Cyberstorm PPC and the BlizzardPPC.
Anybody in his right mind can understand that Eyetech cannot compete pricewise with Apple which produces 4 million computers a year.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 96 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 06-Jun-2002 13:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Lukas Stehlik):
No, the license is NOT preventing bPlan to get AmigaOS4 support for their Pegasos. All they have to do is apply for the license or atleast send the developerboard which Hyperion ordered.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 97 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Menthos on 06-Jun-2002 13:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Lukas Stehlik):
I did not write it with that in my mind, sorry for the missunderstanding. But what I wrote i belive is near the truth... =)
/Menthos
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 98 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Menthos on 06-Jun-2002 13:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (cOrpse):
"bPlan is not bad company, their product is much better than A1G3-SE. "
Read my other replies about this. I guess my english is rather bad because everybody (except SamFace?) seems to have misunderstood it... =(
/Menthos
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 99 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 06-Jun-2002 14:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Menthos):
Humans are ignorant by nature and interpret things the way they want to interpret it.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 100 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Menthos on 06-Jun-2002 14:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (cOrpse):
"I don't see what the fuss is with the rom protection anyways "
In my eyes it is just an act against piracy...
Example: Me and my friend are going to buy "Amiga" motherboards. I buy an AmigaOne with AmigaOS4 and my friend buys an Pegasos (with MorphOS). He takes my AOS4 CD and make a copy and runs it on his pegasos. Easy as pancakes!
This example can't happend if the "AOS4 compatible" Pegasos must be delivered with AOS4...
/Menthos
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