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[News] AmigaOne Update from Alan RedhouseANN.lu
Posted on 24-Jul-2002 22:17 GMT by Douglas McLaughlin106 comments
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On the AmigaOne mailing list, Alan Redhouse from Eyetech posted the following update:

Many dev board purchasers were clearly motivated by the 10% discount rather than their ability to contribute to the developer process. The initial boards were therefore shipped to those who could make a real contribution to developing drivers etc, and porting Linux/UAE distributions. Their progress has been astounding IMO with no less than 5 different linux distributions (SuSE, Debian, Mandrake, Yellow Dog and TurboLinux) being ported within a couple of weeks. More... Many dev board purchasers were clearly motivated by the 10% discount rather than their ability to contribute to the developer process. The initial boards were therefore shipped to those who could make a real contribution to developing drivers etc, and porting Linux/UAE distributions. Their progress has been astounding IMO with no less than 5 different linux distributions (SuSE, Debian, Mandrake, Yellow Dog and TurboLinux) being ported within a couple of weeks.

However the Softex open firmware we had originally shipped with the dev boards (incidently as seen on the Pegasos video) has several shortcomings (although this has been used to boot the 5 linux distributions and the OS4 kernel) and we are currently developing/extending the alternative PPCBoot open firmware for use on the production AmigaOne boards. This will allow us to build in Amiga- specific boot etc options, a well as a more comprehensive multi-boot environment.

We are not shipping the remainder of the dev boards (or any of the user boards) until this code is complete because of the expense of shipping update ROMs and chip changing tools. This is anticipated to be towards the end of August.

This revision to the boot ROM is being undertaken by Hyperion as part of the work necessary for booting OS4 on the A1.

Meanwhile the Amiga Inc club membership/coupon program results (coupled with our own market extrapolation processes) means that the future of the AmigaOne is in no doubt.

Finally several people have asked us why we are not delivering the A1 board to Linux users in advance of the release of OS4. Well there are two main reasons:

1 - This is a product we are producing for the Amiga market and IMO it is proper that the Amiga community get their hands on it first.

2 - I still cannot see why there would be a significant market for Linux on the A1 given that the main focus of Linux is the x86 platform, which - because of sheer sales volumes - will always be an order of magnitude cheaper than a ppc-based product.

Hope this helps

Alan
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 51 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Jul-2002 12:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Anonymous):
So? Microsoft slips with their timeframes, Apple slips with their timeframes, Hyperion slipped with their timeframes for Heretic2 (not much, though), released Shogo earlier than expected... what was your point again?
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 52 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 25-Jul-2002 12:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Anonymous):
> Those in the "campaign for open systems" or whatever they're calling
> themselves should see this as a victory. PPCBoot is GPL'd and
> Hyperion / Eyetech will have to provide access to the firmware source
> code along with A1 boards. If anything strange has to be done to boot
> OS4 (which I doubt) it will all be revealed in the PPCBoot source code.
That applies to the BIOS code itself, but it does not prevent proprietary data also being included on the ROM as an addition, as long as it is not part of the BIOS.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 53 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Muffin on 25-Jul-2002 12:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Anonymous):
>>Worms was announced for delivery by the end of 1999
yes with the words...
"Worms: Armageddon should be available on CD around the end of the year."
notice "should be", why they never finished it i don't know but if you mail Ben and ask him, he might answer :)
>>SiN was announced for delivery in Q2 2000
"04-March-2000:
Hyperion signs "SiN" from Activision for Amiga and Linux. Extensive info on SiN can be found here."
"29-April-2000:
The first SiN progress update by Peter Annuss, including Amiga screenshots!"
"27-August-2000: SiN development approaching final phase.
Hyperion Entertainment is pleased to announce that closed beta-testing of the Linux port of Ritual's acclaimed 3D techno-thriller "SiN" is about to start with the full game expected to go gold end of September 2000.
Binaries will be available for both x86 and PPC based Linux systems.
Meanwhile the Amiga version has entered the Alpha stage with release anticipated early Q4/2000."
there is no Q2 2000 here....
>>Alien Nations was announced for delivery in Q3 2000
there is no release date only this...
"07-May-2000:
Titan and Hyperion bring "Alien Nations" from Jowood to the Amiga."
>>Soldier of Fortune was announced for delivery in Q4 2000
Ok thats true..
>>It doesn't matter whether *I* think those are realistic delivery times (I >>don't) the truth is that Hyperion, ie Ben Hermans made promises they knew >>they couldn't keep. They've done it again with OS4 and you should beware of >>any promises that have no identifiable substance from these companies (AInc, >>Hyperion, Eyetech)
there is no delivery time with OS4.0 and we all know it will most likely be closer to OS4.2 when we will recive it.
I rather have a good quality product a little late than a buggy one.
I expect OS4.x to be like the rest of Hyperions products.. the best!
I allways expect delays...beter safe then sorry :)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 54 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by STRICQ on 25-Jul-2002 12:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (takemehomegrandma):
> What Amiga OS Firmware? There is absolutely *no need* for an Amiga OS Firmware
> whatsoever! But they are making one anyway!
You do want to be able to take an Amiga formated pure RDB hard drive and place it into an AmigaOne and have it boot don't you? The ONLY way this is possible is to modify the BIOS firmware to understand RDB harddrives.
Unless you are advocating that all harddrives for the AmigaOne must be preformated by a PC running Windows or Linux...? I think not...
> Pegasos has an optional Disc-On-Chip of 32 megabytes. That could be a way if
> you want to make a setup without discs. That solution is very nice and
> exciting... as an *OPTION*! You should not *TIE UP* the users with ROM's and
> no choices.
Hmmm, this is just my opinion, but this looks very suspiciously like a way to get around having to provide an actual Amiga Copyright ROM for full compatibility. Perhaps an attempt to take the legal dogs off of MorphOS and PegasOS and puts the onus of finding a ROM to copy and place on the harddrive upon the end user who is, hopefully, much less likely to get sued. Very sneaky. No need to *TIE UP* MorphOS to a ROM image that just happens to be copyright by another company.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 55 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Blom on 25-Jul-2002 12:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Bill Hoggett):
Humm, interesting ... :-)
You can mix GPL and non-GPL code on a disk, but can you in a ROM? Is the ROM
a filesystem? It can be, of course, but most are not. Building a ROM is almost
always equivalent to linking object files to a single binary, and that makes
GPL code "infect" all other code in the binary.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 56 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 25-Jul-2002 12:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Anonymous):
Wasn't trhere this trick that you can declare something belonging to the OS and
then don't have to publish sources?
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 57 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Jul-2002 12:52 GMT
Thank you both for those refreshing posts, those nay sayers is getting kind of tiresome. Let's hear it for positive realism. :-)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 58 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 25-Jul-2002 12:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (David Scheibler):
Eh yes, but it only means that you could compile and link GPL-SW to parts
of the OS, so Mozilla+MUI would be o.k. under MorphOS, but not under AOS3.x
as MUI isn't a part of 3.x.
But you can never never modiefy GPL-sources, release the binaries in any form
and then "forget" the sources for the changes.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 59 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 25-Jul-2002 12:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Kronos):
<edit>
MUI may have been the wrong example as the dev-package is free, and the
combined SW doesn't rely on a registered copy of MUI at the user.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 60 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 25-Jul-2002 13:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Anonymous):
God, I love people who talk on things they don't have a clue about...
All those games were signed before Hyperion took over OS4 which is their main project. As for the delays of OS4, guess what, Hyperions counts a few full time developers who have to eat and pay bills and make no money out of the Amiga market therefore they every once in a while they have to drop everything to develop on Mac, their only source of revenues. What is with people like you that makes you whine constantly? Don't you have anything better to do in your life?
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 61 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jul-2002 13:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Muffin):
Before claiming that someone else is wrong you should check your facts
http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/_amiga/news_000304.html
"confident we can complete the Amiga and Linux versions by the end of Q2 2000"
http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/_amiga/news_000507.html
"Release is expected during Q3 of 2000."
It's not productive to believe in fairy tales. Your cynical stance on release dates is very sensible.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 62 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 25-Jul-2002 13:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (takemehomegrandma):
>What Amiga OS Firmware? There is absolutely *no need* for an Amiga
>OS Firmware whatsoever!
And you know this because... ? Do you work for Eyetech? Did you finance the project? In a few words, what the hell do you know of what Eyetech wants to put in the firmware?
>You should not *TIE UP* the users with ROM's and no choices
Why, is anybody doing that?
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 63 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 25-Jul-2002 13:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Martin Blom):
> You can mix GPL and non-GPL code on a disk, but can you in a ROM?
Ah, but you can mix GPL and non-GPL code in memory, can't you? ;-)
> Is the ROM a filesystem? It can be, of course, but most are not. Building
> a ROM is almost always equivalent to linking object files to a single binary,
> and that makes GPL code "infect" all other code in the binary.
That's one way to look at it, but you can burn more than one binary into a ROM, by using different addresses. I haven't studied this particular aspect of the GPL too closely, but I've done a fair bit of embedded programming in my time, and I think it should be quite possible to include both GPL and non-GPL in a ROM without breaking the license, as long as the non-GPL part is not required for the BIOS to work. You could think of it as having two virtual ROMs joined into one physical one.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 64 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 25-Jul-2002 13:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (David Scheibler):
I don't think that applies in this case. The BIOS is the one meant to load the OS, remember? I don't think you can make that "rule" retroactive. :)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 65 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 25-Jul-2002 13:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Bill Hoggett):
>include both GPL and non-GPL in a ROM without breaking the license,
>as long as the non-GPL part is not required for the BIOS to work
Nope that wouldn't be a problem as it would be the same as having a
commercial OS on a GPL-kernel (like Amithlon).
But you must make sure that every user can recreate the GPL-part from
the sources, and that he can put that into the flash without breaking
the non-GPL-part.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 66 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Blom on 25-Jul-2002 13:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Bill Hoggett):
I think you're right (as long as no calls or other references are made between
the two parts, of course).
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 67 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jul-2002 13:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (amigammc):
"All those games were signed before Hyperion took over OS4"
All the games were LATE before Hyperion took over OS4. In fact many of them were already late when Bill McEwen announced the plans for the original AmigaOne.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 68 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Jul-2002 13:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Anonymous):
Who cares? I mean, I define a timeframe as a goal to aim at, not a promise. It's not like they stole something from you just because they didn't succeed to make the timeframe. What did you have before they made a timeframe? Nothing. What did you have after they slipped the timeframe? Nothing. What do they owe you? Nothing. What are you whining about? Nothing.
So things didn't work out as planned, just like so many other things in life. I mean, grow up already.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 69 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Young on 25-Jul-2002 14:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Anonymous):
> This type of insulting crap from Mr Redhouse puts me right off Eyetech.
I think Alan (and for that matter anybody else still in the Amiga market) has a right to be totally pissed off by people disecting and criticising every tiny bit of information that he has been good enough to share. The way some people carry on I'm surprised he doesn't abolish the project. Fortunately there are other parties who have a stake in this working out, so that won't happen. I'm equally surprised that Ben Hermans still sticks around on ANN the amount of grief he gets. Liven up people, and if you want to moan and gripe do it in private email, don't sound off on here.
Chris
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 70 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 25-Jul-2002 14:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Chris Young):
"The way some people carry on I'm surprised he doesn't abolish the project."
I'm surprised too :) ..sometimes when i read the worst comments, its like
the person *REALLY* wants death over the amiga, as a company and computer...
But what good comes from that ?? :)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 71 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Jul-2002 14:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (catohagen):
"I'm surprised too :) ..sometimes when i read the worst comments, its like
the person *REALLY* wants death over the amiga, as a company and computer...
But what good comes from that ?? :)"
I think they do. These would be people who are no longer using an
Amiga, bought a PC, and want to just run UAE as a bit of nostalgia,
with all free software. If the Amiga is to be a live platform, they
won't be able to say that everything is abandonware.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 72 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 25-Jul-2002 15:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Don Cox):
>>I think they do. These would be people who are no longer using an
Amiga, bought a PC, and want to just run UAE as a bit of nostalgia,
with all free software. If the Amiga is to be a live platform, they
won't be able to say that everything is abandonware.
You know, it's sad, but I think you've hit the nail on the head with that statement.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 73 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jul-2002 15:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Don Cox):
> I think they do. These would be people who are no longer using an
> Amiga, bought a PC, and want to just run UAE as a bit of nostalgia,
> with all free software. If the Amiga is to be a live platform, they
> won't be able to say that everything is abandonware.
Perhaps.
I use a "real" Amiga (whatever that means -- obviously it means
something to the fanatical) but I'm still critical of
AmigaInc/Hyperion/Eyetech's direction. Gosh! Fancy that! Having
an opinion that isn't certified by the afore mentioned cartel.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 74 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 25-Jul-2002 15:28 GMT
All this negative tripe and no acknowledgement that there is some encouraging news here:
1. Eyetech recognized that the ROM did not live up to their expectations and was able to make a design modification before an initial production run. This upgrade will obviously benefit all involved.
2. A small, but dedicated group has managed to get several implementations of Linux for the PPC up and running. This adds significant value in the credibility and QA department.
Jumping on these guys about delivery dates is beyond wrong. The fact that they've persevered so long and dedicated resources to this effort speaks volumes.
After so many years, a few weeks is nothing.
Happy Birthday Ami! You're about to get a baby brother!
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 75 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Allsopp on 25-Jul-2002 15:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Samface):
The contradiction being that the developers boards where sent out to people
who made the various distro's of Linux run on them. What's the point of that
when the Linux people are going to be last to get the boards cause they're
for genuine Amiga users... who probably don't want to run Linux on them anyway.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 76 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Erik Nylund on 25-Jul-2002 15:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Anonymous):
However I believe it is better to release a functional product rather than ship something full of bugs, like most software companies tend to do these days..
..and so do all who live to see such times..
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 77 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 25-Jul-2002 15:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
>"My biggest worry is that people who pre-paid won't ever get a board. Lets >face it - right now is a bad time to be building a computer company."
no one has pre-paid. credit cards don't get charged untill they actually send th board out to you. This isn`t Phase5 or DCE you know :P
in reply to comment 15
>"ALL of these companies have a track record to be ashamed of. From AInc (still >selling Party Packs to anyone gullible enough to buy them) to Eyetech >(accepting orders for a product they knew they couldn't deliver) and Hyperion >(most software they offer to port is never released, will OS 4 be different ?)"
as i said above they haven`t charged anyone for the orders.....the only people who have been charged are they people that do have thier amigaone board so eyetech do deliver.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 78 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 25-Jul-2002 17:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Samface):
>So? Microsoft slips with their timeframes,
Yeah. The XBox was a whole 2 weeks late. We're hardly talking in the time-league as Amiga timeframe delays.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 79 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Jul-2002 17:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (Anonymous):
"I use a "real" Amiga (whatever that means -- obviously it means
something to the fanatical) but I'm still critical of
AmigaInc/Hyperion/Eyetech's direction. Gosh! Fancy that! Having
an opinion that isn't certified by the afore mentioned cartel. "
I don't agree with all their policies either, but that doesn't mean I
want to see them bankrupted, imprisoned, hung, drawn and quartered.
It makes more sense that they should try the current product and then
expand into something that is likely to be more successful. I can't
imagine the AmigaOne selling in the hundreds of thousands, but a
moderate success that makes a profit would do nothing but good.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 80 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by muffin on 25-Jul-2002 21:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Anonymous):
>>Before claiming that someone else is wrong you should check your facts
not wrong, only quite wrong :)
http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/_amiga/news_000304.html
"confident we can complete the Amiga and Linux versions by the end of Q2 2000"
hmm yes but this is the following announcement...
"29-April-2000:
The first SiN progress update by Peter Annuss, including Amiga screenshots!"
And...
"27-August-2000: SiN development approaching final phase.
Hyperion Entertainment is pleased to announce that closed beta-testing of the Linux port of Ritual's acclaimed 3D techno-thriller "SiN" is about to start with the full game expected to go gold end of September 2000.
Binaries will be available for both x86 and PPC based Linux systems.
Meanwhile the Amiga version has entered the Alpha stage with release anticipated early Q4/2000."
from "http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/_amiga/index.html"
you can not exclude that...can you?
>>http://www.hyperion-entertainment.com/_amiga/news_000507.html
>>"Release is expected during Q3 of 2000."
ok i missed that one but still "expected"
>>It's not productive to believe in fairy tales. Your cynical stance on release >>dates is very sensible.
am i???
"I allways expect delays...better safe than sorry :)"
why not do as i.. don't expect anything to be on schedule :)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 81 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Hammer(same person as in Amiga.org) on 25-Jul-2002 22:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Don Cox):
> I think they do. These would be people who are no longer using an
> Amiga, bought a PC, and want to just run UAE as a bit of nostalgia,
> with all free software. If the Amiga is to be a live platform, they
> won't be able to say that everything is abandonware.
WinUAE and Amithlon enables users to run their paid legacy software on faster AmigaOS 3.x box on value for money basis. Most late Amiga applications are still capable to providing solutions.
Downloading "free" software is another issue all together.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 82 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by ehaines on 26-Jul-2002 00:40 GMT
Judging from the vile hatred in some of the posts here, it sounds to
me like some people are jealous at being left out and are expressing
it this way. Well, you had your chance, and you blew it, now you have
to wait for the "end-user" boards. Too bad. In the meantime, it
would behoove you to remain silent, because you're merely
demonstrating the breadth of your ignorance for the world to see.
More succinctly: go jam a fork in your eyeball. (That's an Amiga
Power reference, not a serious suggestion, but you're free to
implement it anyway.) You don't know what's going on.
For example:
> Sigh, poor boot rom. The old one was described as so
> nice and so perfect by Amiga fans, and now it's being
> dropped.
A total lie. Nobody ever once described the old Softex firmware as
"nice and perfect," in fact it was strongly suggested by some people
that it go away. Well, it *is* going away, for good reasons that you
have no clue about.
Also:
> My biggest worry is that people who pre-paid won't ever get a board.
> Lets face it - right now is a bad time to be building a computer
> company.
Nobody pre-paid a cent, so no worries there. This is such a common
misconception, let me state again: NOBODY PRE-PAID. Honest companies
wouldn't engage in such schemes, certainly not in the Amiga market,
not now.
Criticism is fine, but not if it's motivated by hate and attempts to
destroy. It should also have something other than wild conjecture
behind it.
So, here's mine: I don't believe Alan's statement about many people
being motivated by the 10% discount. It didn't motivate me in the
slightest; I'd have ordered anyway. I expect that most of the
non-Linux hardcore dev board orderers were like me, in that they
wanted some new hardware to fiddle with and hopefully help beta-test
OS4. In fact, if Eyetech wants, they can charge me full price and I
won't care.
Also, Hyperion ought to have gone with the "when it's done" slogan
from the beginning. After a few years of developing they really
ought to have known better than to announce dates. Nearly everything
with computers takes far longer than expected. (The XBox is one
thing; how about Windows 95, which was nearly Windows 96 for being
almost a *year* late?)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 83 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by James on 26-Jul-2002 07:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Douglas McLaughlin):
I agree, Rose posts on Amiga.org a lot and she is quite active on the AmigaOne mailing lists
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 84 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 26-Jul-2002 11:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (ehaines):
> A total lie. Nobody ever once described the old Softex firmware as
> "nice and perfect," in fact it was strongly suggested by some people
> that it go away. Well, it *is* going away, for good reasons that you
> have no clue about.
Not entirely true. When MorphOS people said that the Softex Bios is CRAP,
the other side said that these are pure FUD and that it's fine.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 85 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Jul-2002 12:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (James):
"I agree, Rose posts on Amiga.org a lot and she is quite active on the AmigaOne mailing lists"
WAS active. She hasn't written anything to the public A1 list for weeks, at least not under her own name. I admit I missed the fact that there are one or two (literally) posts still trickling into Amiga.org from Rose each week.
Maybe she got a real job ? :)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 86 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Some Farker on 27-Jul-2002 15:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (anonymous):
"Happy Birthday Ami! You're about to get a baby brother!"
No, it's not. These final, pathetic death throws of the Amiga's legacy is like some kind of nightmare for those of us who enjoyed using the system from the late 80's through the early 90's. Like a car crash in slow motion, one can watch as these final fragments bounce around on the hard road of life and finally come to a burning rest in the median.
Let's take a long, hard look at what's left of the Amiga, shall we?
Parent company: A small handful of "enthusiasts" who've co-opted the Amiga name and "spirit" and made two or three tiny arcade games that they can't even give away on eBay. Oh yay, they run on cell-phones and PDAs. Guess that Digital Convergence thing is right around the corner - and B I G, right Gary?
Userbase: God, what a laugh. What's left is a group of shrill-voiced fanboys incapable of grasping the exigencies of hardware and software development. How many "tuned out" when the aforementioned "parent company" did the only smart thing it's done since it's inception? That is, it partnered with Microsoft. Plenty of 'em. Given the low level of intelligence expressed here on ANN and in newsgroups (S.G., I'm looking in your direction), it's amazing to think that the Amiga had a "userbase" at all, ever.
Development community: This sickens me, more than the parent company's meandering non-business non-plan. Hyperion's constant foot-dragging and outright refusal to give over any information regarding the 4.0 development track is infuriating and saddening. I ask you: How hard would it be to post a "milestones" timeline on the web-site? No dates - just a .plan type file that states "Today, we finished testing the USB stack. Next up, video card compatibility." etc. No dates required, just a little something for the - what, 940 - users remaining.
But I guess that'd be something only "stupid Americans" would want, right? Assurance that you're going to deliver on your advertised project once and for all, as opposed to the two years of delays. Yeah, must be sheer American Stupidity.
Eyetech isn't exempt from this at all. Initially, when the Amiga One systems started rolling out, I was elated that after years gone by, someone was finally *doing something*. Now, it turns out that Eyetech have stuffed their developers firmly, as well. "Well, we decided that a bunch of pre orderers weren't really developers so they can't have their boards, so there."
What lie is this masking? What internal "We're out of money, we can't buy boards, we already spent the pre-order cash on other things, oh my god" situation is this a smoke-screen to cover? I am admittedly not a programmer but one phone call and credit card order to any PC hardware or software company would get me a dev kit for just about anything that's been publicly announced. Something much, much worse is going on than "We're not giving out dev boards to people we don't think are developers", mark my words. Eyetech is rapidly approaching the Mick Tinker/Antigravity/Boxer death-spiral.
I used to think that the people with 4000's, 1200's and 3000's were waiting in vain for cards and systems that'll run OS-4; that the Shark and so forth were pipe dreams and that the Amiga One boards were the future. It's becoming increasingly obvious that this isn't true: Each time a milestone is approached by Hyperion and Eyetech, it goes by without so much as a whimper. They can't even put a non-dated roadmap up now that shows where they're going. So upgrading ancient (in computer terms) hardware may be all that there is left to do. This, of course, presumes that there's an OS4 *at all*, and there's no indication that it's coming any time soon. What's the calendar like, Ben? Leaking Alpha copies out in September, betas that you can actually show videos of in November, and then early versions sometime in Feburary or March of 2003? Ah, you've only missed your deadline by a year or more! That's not too bad.
Heck, there might be eight or ten people with Amiga One boards to run it on by the time you've got it ready for release!
On the flip-side of the coin, there's this "Pegasos" thing - yeah, right, a subset of a minority of a subset of a minority computing platform. An "OS" that runs an Amiga emulator. Yay. No thanks - I've got WinUAE or Amithlon for that. Both of those, by the way, are great products and the only real path left for Amiga users right now who don't want to invest in old and busted hardware.
And now for the well-reasoned responses. The two people with Dev boards will post bemused ramblings about how *they* have *their* boards, and that the "dev community" is alive and well - but they can't say anything else! Oh no-no-no! NDAs, don'tcha know! The broken engrish of a few incohate European 12 year olds will follow, I'm guessing that'll be entertaining.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 87 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Donovan Reeve on 27-Jul-2002 16:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
OK mister "anon", since you are the apex of inteligence and integrety, and
have such complete and perfect knowledge of how a business should be run
and relate to its potential customers, I have a proposal for you...
Here are the rules, taken from your various comments and flames.
Your part is to re-start Atari computer OS, following the guide-lines
you yourself have set for Amiga. You must purchase the Atari assets from
the owner and then do everything nessessary to promote the platform and
revive the user-base, but you cannot do any of the following things:
- You may NOT mention any of the products you hope to develope to the
public untill the product is actually shipping. If you DO mention anything
and even one person construes that you have made a promise and failed tbe able
to keep it, then you must give whatever assets you have left away to the
public for free and go out of business.
- You MUST satisy every person on earth with your plans or give everything
you have developed away free and go out of business.
- Your products MUST push the envelope, i e be beyond state-of-the-art, but
yet sell for prices lower than toys.
- Your products MUST be totally open and free. Your software must run on
every hardware in the world, even those which do not exist yet, and your
hardware MUST run every software in the world, even those which do not
exist yet.
- You may NOT...repeat NOT make, advertise or sell any promotional items
nor may you attempt to raise capital in any other way. This includes not
attempting to form any partnerships with other companies or seeking financial
backing from other companies.
- If anyone tries to compete with you or take advantage of you, you MUST
submit to their every whim and demand. You must provide everything you have
purchased or developed to them for free, even to the point of developing
special drivers for them to use your software and hardware with their
competing products.
- If developement time is longer than two months, you must appologise for
living, give away all of your assets to your competitors for free, and
starve yourself to death.
- When supporters of competing products flame you plans or products before
they are even available for review, you must keep totally silent, or else
agree with them.
- If anything goes wrong or takes longer than you planned, you must give
everything away free, appologise for living and drown yourself.
- You may NOT be optimistic nor hopefull about the future of your products
or plans. If you say anything at all, you must say that your products are
crap and will never exist and even if they did would not be worth buying
or even taking for free.
On the other hand, MY part (and the part of anyone else who cares to join in,
will be as follows:
- We will counter you at every turn and do our best to see you fail.
- We will flame everything you do and say, and say your products are crap
when we havent even seen them, and we will say to EVERYONE that you and your
company are crap too, and dishonest and lazy and stupid.
- We will spread so much fud that you won't be able to get a word in edgewise.
- If you are able to make any progress, we will do our best to tear it down.
- If you finally succeed, we will fanatically spread the world in every
possible way that you have actually failed.
Fair enough? After all, they're YOUR RULES. You formed them every time
you opened your mouth, and with every word you typed!
So, let's try it! Let's have YOU play the game by YOUR rules!
Donovan Reeve (bubby@inebraska.com)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 88 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Donovan Reeve on 27-Jul-2002 16:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Christian Kemp):
Thats far from the truth, Christian. In fact, ANN has, with your blessing,
deteriorated into nothing but an anti-Amiga FUD sight. Many Amigans won't
even come here anymore. I only come mainly out of morbid curiosity as to
what the latest histerical FUD from the opposition is. Since you yourself
said that ANN no longer stands for Amiga Network News, you are admitting that
this is no longer an Amiga-related sight. That's fine, and that's your
business, but just don't try to make the claim that you are supporting the
Amiga or the Amiga community when in fact your sight has been one of the
two sights most instrumental in tearing the Amiga down and the Amiga
community apart IMHO.
It looks to be a usefull sight for MorphOS fans however.
Donovan Reeve (bubby@inebraska.com)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 89 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Donovan Reeve on 27-Jul-2002 17:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Shadowfox):
Very well put! Many of us users feel the same way. I for one am not
getting ulsers over the delays, but am just patiently waiting. I hope
to get back into Amiga developement in the future, but right now my other
commitments dictate that I am "just a user". ;)
Donovan Reeve (bubby@inebraska.com)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 90 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Donovan Reeve on 27-Jul-2002 17:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Rik Sweeney):
I just hope EVERYONE is able to get their announced products out eventually
so the flaming can end. The products will then sell or not sell on their
own merits.
Donovan Reeve (bubby@inebraska.com)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 91 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Donovan Reeve on 27-Jul-2002 17:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (takemehomegrandma):
I understand how you feel. I also would like to see things as open and
user-customiseable as possible. But Amiga isn't Linux, nor is it free like
Linux. All the companies involved are hoping to make their living from it.
And even though you and I would not steal the OS, many would. The amiga
has a history of attracting many inovative people. Unfortunatly. it is
also a historical fact that some of those inovative people also have no
class and no integrity and dont mind thievary. Piracy ras resulted in the
demise of many a good software company, especially small ones like those in
the Amiga market. Whether what they are doing will cut down on piracy enough
to help their chances of succeeding I don't know. But I can't blame them
for trying. I myself got out of the Amiga software business before I was
fairly into it, because many used my software, but few paid for it. I was
frankly discusted and dissapointed (as well as hungry). :)
Donovan Reeve (bubby@inebraska.com)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 92 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Donovan Reeve on 27-Jul-2002 17:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Anonymous):
And of course those comments were made before they decided to add even more
changes to the initial release.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 93 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Donovan Reeve on 27-Jul-2002 18:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (smithy):
Yeah, and windoz95 was 2 years late as it was origionally announced as
windoz93. And windoz 98 was supposed to be windoz 97. I don't know about
windoz2000, maybe by then they had learned to keep their mouths shut.
Also, ms is a MUCH larger and richer company than Amiga Inc. If the
comparitive available resources were to be taken as a ratio and extrapolated
out, then compared to Amiga Inc microsof products are CENTURIES LATE, or
compared to ms, Amiga products are only a few seconds late!
;)
Donovan Reeve (bubby@inebraska.com)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 94 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Donovan Reeve on 27-Jul-2002 18:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (Some Farker):
How about the perfectly good English of a 50 year old American?
I'm sorry you are so down-in-the-mouth and are giving up. But, that's
life. Don't presume to speak for the rest of us. I don't know about the
rest of the world, or even the other cities in the U.S.A., but I do know
that in my small mid-western city there are a number of active and inactive
Amiga lovers who are still patiently hoping for the new Amigas and O.S. to
finally become available. None of the Amigans I know ever get on these
discussions and post except for me, and I keep them all updated. They all
have lives and don't care to read fud. I guess I must either be a brute for
punishement or not have a life because I read this fud at least once a week
useually. ;) My point is, that the loud-mouthed people here don't even
begin to represent the average Amiga community either in taste or in attitude.
I am of the opinion that if my quiet little city containes a few Amigans
who still want new Amigas, then it is likely that others do to. Extrapolating
population numbers would equate to at least tens of thousands, but who can
know for sure? The only wa to find out what the real potential Amiga market
is will be to release actual products. Success would be much more likely if
main-stream retailers would be involved. That was the main reason for the
huge success of the C-64. Another necessary factor is some well designed
advertising taken where it will be noticed. The Amigans in my town would
never know anything was happening if I didn't tell them, because they aren't
interested in wasting time in internet discussions for the most part. So
any announcements would have to hit major media to be noticed by them if I
didn't tell them. For this reason, I would suggest tha all Amigans who ARE
wild enough to brave these places should help spread the word to those Amigans
and ex-Amigans whom they are aware of, as well as any other potentially
interested parties. Not because we owe anything to the companies or people
involved (allthough I feel we will if the new stuff makes it to market),
but because we ourselves want new and better Amigas. That said, I personally
don't mind helping out people and companies I like to get the word out.
My point is, The Amiga comunity is much more than just a few who frequent
internet discussions, and those silent ones are often the ones more likely
to be willing to spend money. Many here want everything for free because
they apparently have no life and no job either.
Well, I gotta get goin' or I won't have a job (or a life) either. #;^)>
Donovan Reeve (bubby@inebraska.com)
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 95 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Jean-Yves Besserer on 28-Jul-2002 07:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (STRICQ):
Pegasos will actually have his own version of the open firmware, made to permit Morphos to boot on amiga formated harddisk.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 96 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 29-Jul-2002 05:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
Ooooh. Now I've vanished?
HEY ASSHOLE, I'VE BEEN ON A TWO WEEK VACATION!!!
Who the fuck do you think you are? Am I supposed to never ever have any time off from checking email or reading ANN/amiga.org?
I've just stopped reading amigaone@yahoogroups.com, because of the EXTREMELY ridiculous signal to noise ratio there.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 97 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Phill on 29-Jul-2002 08:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (amigammc):
> Only an unclear phrase can be misinterpreted
Thats not true, some people have an incredible knack of purposefully misinterpreting to achieve maximum trollability.
All hardware & software is late. They shouldn't have given release dates, but people shouldn't be stupid enough to believe them.
Now, wheres my BoXeR?
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 98 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Phill on 29-Jul-2002 08:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (takemehomegrandma):
> So everything works with the old firmware, both Linux and OS4. Hand in hand! > The way everybody wants it!
Please learn to read english, it says there are shortcomings. Obviously that means everything doesn't work with the old firmware. There is a difference between running & working properly.
> What "Amiga specific boot options" could there possibly be, that can't be
> achieved the normal way in the 21:st century, that is through a disc based
> bootloader?
Boot loaders suck, which is why I would only install one operating system on a pc. However I'd only install one operating system on an AmigaOne, they are probably pandering to the Linux crowd.
> Then the power of decisions should be turned over to the users wants and needs.
Surely the difference that the Amiga always had over the PC was the users didn't have to worry. If it were me I'd stop Linux ever running on these boards, it's completely the wrong market.
> Heck, even the old 'Amiga Classic' OS boots nicely without a physical amiga specific ROM.
Can you explain what Kickstart is then?
> This is a severe limitation to OS4/A1. Limitations are NEVER good. Not for
> anyone!
AmigaOne is being built on the back of AOS4, therefore it's reasonable to expect that they will try to tie you into that. If you don't like it don't buy one.
> Oh, how touching! You are a commercial hardware company that REFUSES to sell
> your product to customers willing to pay for it.
A company willing to not sell a product until it is finished is a refreshing change.
> There is nothing Amiga specific about the A1 (at least not until you cripple
> it with your "extensions") and there is no logical reasons whatsoever to
> refuse possible sales in the wait for OS4.
What right have you to force someone into doing something they don't want to?
> Well, there IS a market for PPC Linux.
It's probably about the same size as Linux for the PlayStation 2.
Which for your information is rubbish as the machine isn't anywhere near quick enough or has enough ram.
> Why are YOU supporting PPC when x86 is so much cheaper?
1. Phase5 were moving that way and there is quite a bit of software already ( hopefully reusable ).
2. the only people willing to buy an AmigaOne are Intel/Microsoft haters.
> Perhaps the Amiga migration should have been towards x86 instead, since it is cheaper and still more powerful?
The problem with x86 is it's too easy to install Windows. Most normal people would switch eventually.
> Finally, have a look at http://www.petitiononline.com/amigaos/
> You will see that the amount of signatures to that petition is almost as high
> as the coupon sales. What does that say to you?
People have too much spare time.
Phill
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 99 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 29-Jul-2002 12:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (Some Farker):
Proof that a system is not dead: Some clueless sucker continues to write 2-page-essays why it is dead.
AmigaOne Update from Alan Redhouse : Comment 100 of 106ANN.lu
Posted by Solar on 29-Jul-2002 12:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Ketzer):
Sorry but he has not been farther from the truth - on the negative side - than some here are erring on the positive side.
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