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[News] other photos of Alchimie2ANN.lu
Posted on 11-Sep-2002 07:52 GMT by anonymous73 comments
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some others photos of Alchime2 / AExpo 2002 Photos were from AFLE french association. see: http://membres.lycos.fr/afle/Images/alchimie2/index.html
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 1 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric on 11-Sep-2002 06:45 GMT
http://membres.lycos.fr/afle/Images/alchimie2/000010.jpg
This crap must be a joke. Isn't there a SINGLE graphician in the OS4 development team or anyone who hasn't been in complete isolation since the late 80s?
Don't tell me that it will change with resolution and better textures - those sliders are anything but not subjects to that. Things like these were all right for OS 1.2 and 1.3, simpler games in the 80s, but not for a new (generation?) AmigaOS in 2002.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 2 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Jon on 11-Sep-2002 07:15 GMT
Come on, it was really shown in very low detail (was it 640*256 in 16 colours?). Are the other screen grabs better in your opinion? (check the Amiga's site)?
At it shows more than any of MorphOS grab I have ever seen! :) Now, please, point me wrong, and give me a link to a good screenshot about MOS..
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 3 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Jon on 11-Sep-2002 07:16 GMT
At LEAST..
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 4 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 11-Sep-2002 07:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Emeric):
A GUI is about so much more than eyecandy, you know... well, obviously you don't. :-/
Hint: Think functionality. Think functionality first, add eyecandy later. Otherwise it would be like painting the wall before you grind it.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 5 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Sep-2002 07:22 GMT
Everybody knows that AmigaOS4 is developing on 68k AGA ;))
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 6 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Jon on 11-Sep-2002 07:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
But ExecSG with Cyberstorm and Linux-crosscompilers. Plus of course with AmigaOne and hopefully with BlizzardPPC, too :)
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 7 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric on 11-Sep-2002 07:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Samface):
@ Samface:
You're most obviously missing the point that what we can see on the shots are the GUI settings. Check them out and you will see that there is no place for add eyecandy later. This GUI system LACKS functionality REQUIRED to release a GUI today. It still seems to be a rather featureless MUI copy.
It's clear: design was not part of the concept. Will stunning textures and icons reduce the negative sensation? For a few moments maybe. But not in everyday use.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 8 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Sep-2002 07:46 GMT
Samface!
If you aren't think about Marketing in 2002, YOU WERE LOST! In the screenshots you cannot show functionality! They need DESIGN and a good lokin screenshot they will see what the new Intuition knows!
That's a big problem is a programmer shits the Design and Marketing down and want to sell something, just because :'it's good'. How do you want that they trust you if you don't show anything ? Take a look at MorphOS!
If that is shit in functionality the users will buy, because they see: It looks good! And in the beginning they don't want to waste time for configuring...
(lot's of ppl has got a bad design knowledge, so they will leave it...)
So don't shit down the marketing/advertisement otherwise you'll lost...
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 9 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 11-Sep-2002 08:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Anonymous):
Yes, I must really have missed something. I didn't know that AmigaOS4 was already completed and ready for marketing. I thought it was still several months left before the release and that they were working on improving the functionality of the AmigaOS GUI in order to add the eye candy later on.
*sigh*
Not even Picasso's work was pretty before it was finished. Besides, they didn't even intend to improve the GUI at all for the 4.0 release in the first place. An OS is an operating system, not something to make your screen look pretty. If that's what you want and don't care for functionality, get Windows XP and Windowblinds. I mean, what are you doing on an Amiga website if you don't care for OS functionality?
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 10 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric on 11-Sep-2002 08:41 GMT
@ Samface
"If that's what you want and don't care for functionality"
Judging from the configuration options we saw on the screenshots, the GUI is pretty featureless. Compare it even to the _aging_ MUI and you'll see what am talking about.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 11 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Jon on 11-Sep-2002 08:46 GMT
Let's compare it when we have it. So simple it is.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 12 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric on 11-Sep-2002 08:50 GMT
Let it be so. Amen. :)
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 13 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 11-Sep-2002 08:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Emeric):
Ok, fine. But then, how about some *constructive* critisism instead of simply yelling "that sux"? I mean, what is the specific functionality it lacks in order to give you a better look and feel? Critising without telling specificly what it is you're critisizing is worthless and only wastes bandwidth for ANN.
Besides, going from *no* GUI configurability at all to the level of MUI is a pretty giant leap in GUI development. Stop expecting them to perform miracles and write your own OS before calling them incompetent developers, ok?
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 14 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric on 11-Sep-2002 09:03 GMT
@ Samface
"Stop expecting them to perform miracles and write your own OS before calling them incompetent developers, ok?"
If a flat is ugly, lacks features, or not comfortable I'm intended to shut up unless I've built my own. Strange reasoning...
It's just about tendency - some features are tending to let us (or me at least) think that there was no clean concept and no graphician behind the scenes regarding the GUI. And that coders shaping the look and feel instead of someone who knows what makes damage and what not.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 15 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 11-Sep-2002 09:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Emeric):
But then, MUI isn't a part of AmigaOS and therefore they cannot even benefit from the years it took to get that kind of functionality. They have started pretty much from scratch and reached the level of MUI, which took years to develop, in just a matter of months. You're expecting the functionality and look of MacOS's or Windows's GUI from a few individuals which I'm not even certain gets any salary, why?
This is really getting on my nerves. Why is so many Amigans expecting the new Amiga hardware and software to be at the same level of functionality and price range as the rest of the industry when you know they are basicly doing this without any profit and extremely limited amount of developers? They don't owe you anything and could just as well drop this whole thing at any time simply because they feel like it and join the PC stream like everybody else. Why do you constantly bitch and whine like a bunch of spoiled little brats when you should appreciate that their actually is someone doing something? If it's something we should have learned from all these past bancrupcies it's this; don't take the existence of Amiga development for granted. If you whine loud enough, perhaps they'll listen and drop the whole thing. What would you have then? Would you be proud of yourself?
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 16 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 11-Sep-2002 09:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Emeric):
That was a poor metaphor. Hint: A landlord is obligated to maintain a certain standard of comfort, Amiga Inc. and their partners isn't obligated to, or owe you anything in any way. You whine but who says they have to listen or develop the product for you at all? Nothing.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 17 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 11-Sep-2002 09:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Emeric):
"Don't tell me that it will change with resolution and better textures - those sliders are anything but not
subjects to that. Things like these were all right for OS 1.2 and 1.3, simpler games in the 80s, but not for a
new (generation?) AmigaOS in 2002."
Those are the standard Reaction sliders. If you have OS 3.9, open up
Prefs/Input to see what they look like on your system. On mine, using
a graphics card, they look not perfect but very much better than on
Elwood's barebones system.
I see no reason why the knob and channel graphics should not be
customisable, anyway. It's only a foreground bitmap moving over a
background bitmap. That customisation isn't in the OS 3.9 Reaction
Prefs, but it surely can be added.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 18 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 11-Sep-2002 09:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Emeric):
You obviously don't know anything about software engineering or GUI design at all. Like I said in my previous metaphor; designing the GUI before implementing the functionality would be like painting before you grind. You grind first simply because doing it afterwards would ruin all of the previous work you've put into it and you would have to start all over again. Software engineers makes the functionality first, then you get designers to make it look pretty. This is the way they are doing it and I'm glad they are because everything else would be stupid and extremely unprofessional.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 19 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric on 11-Sep-2002 09:31 GMT
@ Samface
Let me interpretate all what you say: anything I say, which is not praise of Amiga Inc, it's products, business policy, anything related to Amiga Inc, the OS4 developers, the AmigaONE, their partners, _anything_ am an enemy of the community and misunderstanding the fact that am alive exclusively to praise them and purchase their products regardless of their quality. Well, maybe not that harshly expressed, but almost that.
Your devotion is nice. Yet, a little childish... And I doubt my comments will ruin a company or an other... Am not that smart :)
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 20 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Jon on 11-Sep-2002 09:31 GMT
Sorry, it is in 8 colors..not even 16 :)
Anyway, let's try to keep this constructive. The GUI has always said to be very configurable, so we shouldn't not worry too much about it. And, if I remember right, version 4.1 should make general improvments to GUI and various subsystems of AmigaOS - like DOpus, printing etc.
Maybe some of the developers (sorry, I can't remember everyone making the OS 4! ;) ) can say a word or two about the look and configurability.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 21 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Jon on 11-Sep-2002 09:37 GMT
I have tried VisualPrefs, because OS 4 is going to have a similar functionality over it. However, it doesn't seem to affect on the Reaction gadgets. But because of Reaction is going to be improved as well, I hope that we are going to get a consistent, still configurable, GUI.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 22 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 11-Sep-2002 09:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Emeric):
Errr.. How should I put this... hrrmmm... no.
First of all, not bitching is not the same thing as praising. Simple logic and doesn't require much IQ in order to be comprehended.
Next issue is, you're whining about the looks of a slider!?!? Come on, that's the only thing you have specified as something you don't like and is it really worth whining about in the first place? Please, these guys have an OS which has been left behind in development for several years and you expect every little details such as the sliders in a color setting module to be at the same level as Windows or MacOS which has huge development teams with very high salaries behind them. I'm not asking you to praise the AmigaOS4 development team as gods, I'm only asking you to be real and stop expecting miracles. A lot of efforts is beeing done completely on a voluntary basis, stop acting like they owe you something. If you don't like their product then don't buy it, it's as simple as that.
Geez...
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 23 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Sep-2002 10:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Samface):
>If you whine loud enough, perhaps they'll listen and drop the whole thing.
>What would you have then?
MorphOS?
>Would you be proud of yourself?
I would chuckle inside myself, because I am so naughty. >:-)
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 24 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric on 11-Sep-2002 10:02 GMT
@ Samface
Can't remember I ever told or expressed that they "owe me something". And hopefully they'll change the look of those sliders and all will be well. Strange man you are...
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 25 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Chip on 11-Sep-2002 10:03 GMT
Samface!
A good metaphor just for you: If you are going to build a house, firs you will PLAN it and not starting to build...
And the planner and the builder are different persons mostly...
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 26 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Sep-2002 10:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Samface):
>You whine but who says they have to listen or develop the product for you at all? Nothing.
Exactly an that had been exactly what they were doing - remember the requirement of 50.000
sold OS3.9 copies before they intended to continue AmigaOS/PPC?
It's only after they had no success with their DE they come creeping back to the real Amiga
users begging for mercy and promising a new AmigaOS, hehe.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 27 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by anarchic_teapot on 11-Sep-2002 10:11 GMT
Bugger the screenshots. We've all seen more than enough screenshots. It's a relief to see photos of real people: Ben Yoris not pulling a funny face! Elwood smiling! The Prez! Jacques!
Like the portable A1200 :)
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 28 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 11-Sep-2002 10:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Anonymous):
Sure, you would have something else. That's actually my point; you wouldn't have AmigaOS but something else. If you prefer something else, then don't bother *them*, ok?
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 29 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 11-Sep-2002 10:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Emeric):
I didn't claim that you said they owe you something, only that you whine like they would.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 30 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 11-Sep-2002 10:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Chip):
Yes, plan, engineer then make it look pretty. What's your point?
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 31 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 11-Sep-2002 10:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Anonymous):
No success with the DE? Sure, that's why they outsourced the AmigaOS development to a third party and increased their AmigaDE biddings with more partnerships and the release of the Amiga Entertainment Pack. That sounds very logical, right?
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 32 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Chip on 11-Sep-2002 10:25 GMT
Plan the look also! Have you ever seen a plan of a house?
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 33 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 11-Sep-2002 10:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Chip):
Eeeehh... Ok, I see your point. But then, the design requires the feature set of the functionality to be set in order to even plan it. Only a decided 100% skinnable GUI would be possible to plan a design for before developing the UI engine. The AmigaOS4 development didn't even have improvements of the GUI planned at all in the first place, this was actually planned for AmigaOS4.2.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 34 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Sep-2002 10:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Samface):
No success in getting TAO to make their OS-base ready for the desktop.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 35 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Chip on 11-Sep-2002 10:55 GMT
Samface! Looks like you are riding the horse backwards. I think, the designer MUST set the feature list! And not the coder. If you ever developed a good game, you must know that the coders are working after the screenplans. And not backwards. These are the terms only in that case, if you want a good lookin, flexible GUI for a Desktop OS. If not, ignore all of my posts...
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 36 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Chip on 11-Sep-2002 10:55 GMT
Samface! Looks like you are riding the horse backwards. I think, the designer MUST set the feature list! And not the coder. If you ever developed a good game, you must know that the coders are working after the screenplans. And not backwards. These are the terms only in that case, if you want a good lookin, flexible GUI for a Desktop OS. If not, ignore all of my posts...
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 37 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Chip on 11-Sep-2002 10:55 GMT
Samface! Looks like you are riding the horse backwards. I think, the designer MUST set the feature list! And not the coder. If you ever developed a good game, you must know that the coders are working after the screenplans. And not backwards. These are the terms only in that case, if you want a good lookin, flexible GUI for a Desktop OS. If not, ignore all of my posts...
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 38 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Chip on 11-Sep-2002 10:55 GMT
Samface! Looks like you are riding the horse backwards. I think, the designer MUST set the feature list! And not the coder. If you ever developed a good game, you must know that the coders are working after the screenplans. And not backwards. These are the terms only in that case, if you want a good lookin, flexible GUI for a Desktop OS. If not, ignore all of my posts...
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 39 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Chip on 11-Sep-2002 10:55 GMT
Samface! Looks like you are riding the horse backwards. I think, the designer MUST set the feature list! And not the coder. If you ever developed a good game, you must know that the coders are working after the screenplans. And not backwards. These are the terms only in that case, if you want a good lookin, flexible GUI for a Desktop OS. If not, ignore all of my posts...
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 40 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Chip on 11-Sep-2002 10:55 GMT
Samface! Looks like you are riding the horse backwards. I think, the designer MUST set the feature list! And not the coder. If you ever developed a good game, you must know that the coders are working after the screenplans. And not backwards. These are the terms only in that case, if you want a good lookin, flexible GUI for a Desktop OS. If not, ignore all of my posts...
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 41 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Chip on 11-Sep-2002 10:55 GMT
Samface! Looks like you are riding the horse backwards. I think, the designer MUST set the feature list! And not the coder. If you ever developed a good game, you must know that the coders are working after the screenplans. And not backwards. These are the terms only in that case, if you want a good lookin, flexible GUI for a Desktop OS. If not, ignore all of my posts...
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 42 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Chip on 11-Sep-2002 10:55 GMT
Samface! Looks like you are riding the horse backwards. I think, the designer MUST set the feature list! And not the coder. If you ever developed a good game, you must know that the coders are working after the screenplans. And not backwards. These are the terms only in that case, if you want a good lookin, flexible GUI for a Desktop OS. If not, ignore all of my posts...
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 43 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Chip on 11-Sep-2002 10:55 GMT
Samface! Looks like you are riding the horse backwards. I think, the designer MUST set the feature list! And not the coder. If you ever developed a good game, you must know that the coders are working after the screenplans. And not backwards. These are the terms only in that case, if you want a good lookin, flexible GUI for a Desktop OS. If not, ignore all of my posts...
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 44 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Chip on 11-Sep-2002 10:55 GMT
Samface! Looks like you are riding the horse backwards. I think, the designer MUST set the feature list! And not the coder. If you ever developed a good game, you must know that the coders are working after the screenplans. And not backwards. These are the terms only in that case, if you want a good lookin, flexible GUI for a Desktop OS. If not, ignore all of my posts...
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 45 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Chip on 11-Sep-2002 10:56 GMT
Sorry.. Mozzila striked again. :(((( This 1.1 is buggy like hell... :( Sorry again for the 10 messages!
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 46 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Fred on 11-Sep-2002 11:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Chip):
Yeah, blame it on the browser :->
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 47 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 11-Sep-2002 11:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Jon):
"Sorry, it is in 8 colors..not even 16 :)"
That's why you are seeing the low colour version of the Reaction
gadgets.
One of the rules of AmigaOS is that everything must work on a 1-bit
screen display. Therefore the gadgets exist in 1-bit versions as well
as 8-bit versions. That's why the sliders look cruder than they will
on a graphics card.
However, it would still be a good thing to be able to replace the
images used. I'm sure Mr Mason can come up with something more
attractive.
In one way it was a mistake to deminstrate OS 4 components without a
graphics card, but in another way it was a good thing, as it shows how
flexible they are. It's no good having an OS that will only work in 24
bit.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 48 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 11-Sep-2002 11:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Chip):
Let's not port it to AmigaOS, eh?
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 49 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 11-Sep-2002 11:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Anonymous):
Who said this was their plan in the first place? They've always talked about creating their own OS (AmigaOS5) with the technology from TAO integrated to create a complete digital environment working seemingless over different platforms and CPU architectures. TAO's OS has nothing to do with Amiga's future plans for the AmigaDE.
other photos of Alchimie2 : Comment 50 of 73ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 11-Sep-2002 11:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Samface):
No Sammy, they orginally talked about forgetting AOS/WB and going with Tao for a new desktop OS. This is the pitch they spewed out for months until Tao said, and did so quiet clearly on MooBunny, they were not going to do it (VM, MP, ect) as it was for small applicances only. That's when Amino (current owners of Amgia Inc) back tracked and realized, Tao wasn't going to make a desktop OS for them as they deluded themselves into thinking. So Fleecy had to eat his words of Amiga OS/Workbench being dead. W00t! You would think that Amino (current owners of Amiga Inc) would have done their homework on Tao's Intent before pitching all this crazy crap for millions of VC investments. I guess back in the crazy .com years, it didn't matter if the idea was based on real world or not, as long as there was a IPO in the near future.
Dammy
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