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[News] MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and PlatformsANN.lu
Posted on 22-Oct-2002 07:30 GMT by Jedi137 comments
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By Thendic-France on MorphOS-News.de :

"In complete cooperation with Mai Logic, we have loaded the bplan OpenFirmware on both the Teron CX and PX. MorphOS runs well on both boards. The Pegasos was developed as a open hardware platform right from the beginning; it uses a BIOS to simplify a port of any operating system to the platform. This OpenFirmware is a well known standard (IEEE1275) and is used worldwide by companies like SUN Microsystems, Apple, Cisco, IBM, Motorola and others. We will support any OS vendor willing to port their software to our platform and will allow them to use our retail channels to sell their products..."

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MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 51 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark] on 22-Oct-2002 17:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (anarchic_teapot):
[Quote]Actually, if you wander over to http://www.codegen.com you'll learn that IEEE1275 ain't a standard no more. It's been pulled by the IEEE board.[/Quote]
Poor "Thendic France" talking big words about standards, and then it's not "the" standard anymore ;O)
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 52 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Troels E on 22-Oct-2002 17:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (David Scheibler):
Where does it say "release before December" ?
That 20+ betatesters are using it now does not mean it will be out before christmas. Sorry to dissapoint you, I know you can hardly wait ;-)
But anyway its positive to see it's coming along allmost as I expected...
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 53 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 22-Oct-2002 18:27 GMT
You people are pathetic.
The ONLY thing which is supposedly due in December this year is the AmigaOne SE which has the G3 soldered on the motherboard and runs Linux. Just because there are supposedly 20 AOS4 beta testers doesn't mean they are running AOS4 on the AmigaOne! In fact they could be testing some AOS4 components on AOS3.x for all you know.
Talk about grasping at straws.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 54 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 22-Oct-2002 18:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Alkemyst):
It does NOT control which hardware you run your OS on, it just asks you to reactivate it if you change too much.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 55 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Troels E on 22-Oct-2002 18:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (strobe):
@Strobe
Who said anything about December?
Personally I don't think OS4 will be ready for AmigaOne before late January and thats an optimistic guess.
I will probably buy the A1 and run Linux on it until then, no problem to me, I can wait:-)
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 56 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 22-Oct-2002 18:51 GMT
Let me speak as somebody who has actually used Open Firmware.
Open Firmware provides the host OS a complete device tree as well as a non-processor dependent way of initializing and using devices. Devices such as video cards and disk controllers have OF drivers in their firmware which allows the OS to use them even without native drivers immediately available. For example if you buy a new ATA PCI card adaptor and wish to connect a drive to it and boot from it, Open Firmware can search for and load the kernel and even kernel modules either embedded in the firmware or on the filesystem.
OF is an extremely flexible firmware specification which has made my life easier on several occasions. Sometimes something isn't quite right at the firmware level and I have fixed it by going to the Open Firmware prompt and entering some FORTH commands. In one case the device tree wasn't complete so I couldn't boot using a specific drive controller so I changed the boot-device parameter to something like /bandit@F2000000/ADPT,2930CU/@4,0:9. bandit is a PCI bus, ADPT,2930CU is a cheap Adaptec SCSI card, 4 is the SCSI ID, 0 is the bus, 9 is the partition (a PC BIOS can't even handle over 4 partitions). You usually also change the kernel perameters in OF by changing a variable like boot-args so you can root a different partition. You can even change the boot logic so it will boot something different depending on a key being pressed, or you can create a graphical menu to choose what to boot. At one point I had the choice of a MacOS icon, an OS X icon, or a penguin icon. It's very flexible primarily because you have a FORTH interpreter and OF drivers so you can program whatever you want, like a game of PONG.
The downside is the firmware tends to use more memory so cards which support OF tend to have a larger flash EEPROM (or whatever). However if you just have some VESA-based video card I'm not sure if OF can use it for display or you have to pray the kernel is loaded without error.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 57 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 22-Oct-2002 18:54 GMT
@Troels E
When the AmigaOne SE is demonstrated they say it will become available December this year. Nothing however has been announced concerning AOS4 however, which is my point exactly.
I wouldn't expect to see AOS4 until late next year and I wouldn't expect to see it on new hardware, and even if it did run on new hardware I doubt it would be completely PowerPC native.
No fear, no uncertainty, just doubt |-p
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 58 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 22-Oct-2002 18:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark]):
Well it just seems you don't know how such standards get handled.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 59 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 22-Oct-2002 18:59 GMT
FYI here's some docs I use when dealing with OF:
http://bananajr6000.apple.com/OF/technotes.html
(esp. the "Fundamentals" series)
http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/macppc/nvedit.html
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 60 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 22-Oct-2002 19:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
"It does NOT control which hardware you run your OS on, it just asks you to reactivate it if you change too much.
& whats the point to that ?
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 61 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Oct-2002 20:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (Alkemyst):
Being able to discontinue XP completely after 5 years and forcing everyone to buy a new OS.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 62 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 22-Oct-2002 20:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (Alkemyst):
Bah, you're blinder than I thought. You don't understand that the Amiga Inc
OEM licence will only LIMIT AmigaOS... It's the ONLY thing it will do.
It WILL NOT save it from piracy (sadly), as crackers WILL crack it (sadly...).
It will just not let many people use OS4 legally.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 63 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 22-Oct-2002 21:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
"Bah, you're blinder than I thought. You don't understand that the Amiga Inc
OEM licence will only LIMIT AmigaOS... It's the ONLY thing it will do.
It WILL NOT save it from piracy (sadly), as crackers WILL crack it (sadly...).
It will just not let many people use OS4 legally."
So whats the point to that ?
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 64 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 22-Oct-2002 21:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
I agree with Alkis with the caveat that if they allowed AmigaOS 4 to run on whatever hardware could run it (like Windows) they could implement a simple form of registration which was as unobtrusive as possible.
This is in essence what bPlan is talking about when they suggest using a machine's ID. This is no different than some piracy protections which use a machine's MAC address.
Some shareware titles use a registration system based on polynomials which isn't very obtrusive. This system doesn't even use some hardware-derived ID. All you have to do is send your registration to the company (like a web form) when you want to update your software. It's not spyware, you can do the process over the phone if you like.
The problem is Hyperion and the Amiga partners have decided they aren't going to sell AmigaOS unless the hardware originally came with a special licence and some kind of firmware protection scheme which is extremely obtrusive and forces the hardware companies to partner with Amiga. I mean WTF?
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 65 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 22-Oct-2002 21:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Oh I forgot. There is no sign of AmigaOS4. Ignore my last post on the basis of who-the-hell-cares-about-vapour.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 66 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 22-Oct-2002 21:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (strobe):
you seem to care alot about it.
otherwise you would not comment about it so much
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 67 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 22-Oct-2002 21:16 GMT
This is really quite a breakthrough and could mark a major step towards 'coopetition' -- a practise that is common among vendors that want to increase total market share by competing on equal terms.
In an ideal world, we could all select which motherboard and OS best suited our needs and purchase applications that would share the same fundamental features. This is exactly what all of us need - Thendic, bPlan, Hyperion, Eyetech and Amiga...
Peace
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 68 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Rob on 22-Oct-2002 23:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (OcineL):
Ben hasn't stated anything about OS4 running on A1 yet, you must
remember that OS4 will also run `native' on Cyberstorm/BlizzardPPC.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 69 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 23-Oct-2002 04:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Anonymous):
"Do you mean X11? If so there are some great tutorials out there if you just
search using Google."
Doesn't many of them describe how X "are supposed" to be coded and not the way which will actually give the best performance then running on your own local machine and using memory on the gfxcard? I don't know thought.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 70 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Jedi on 23-Oct-2002 04:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
> All on paper?
>
> Tell that to the 20+ external testers of OS 4 who've been testing this stuff
> since late September :)
yes, on Amiga Classic ;)
What is new to have an OS4 on Amiga Classic ? (MorphOS is on Amiga Classic for 2 years).
That will not be only on paper, for users like me, when OS4 will be available on AmigaOne (like MorphOS 1.0 is already available on Pegasos).
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 71 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Oct-2002 05:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
As irrelevant as ANN eh Ben?
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 72 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 23-Oct-2002 05:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Sure mr Ben, I Don't doubt that AmigaOS4.0 will be the best AmigaOS we have seen. But it's supposed to be, the problem as I see it is that even Gateway was a little bit to late, and that stuff delayed us like what? 2 years? And then Amino got Amiga and it soon has taken them 3 more years, see my point?
Even if AmigaOS4.0 is much better than the old ones it must be quite outdated, not many companies support Amiga longer, there are almost no demoscene left, all the fun is gone =/. The big problem is a hardware one thought, because AmigaOS is probably still as efficent, comfortable and easy to use as it has always been, but I doubt many people will pay as much money as a complete new x86 would cost for a "bad" motherboard with an old cpu. The AmigaONE should have a price of something like $250, that would be most correct and then some outsiders maybe would buy it to.
The best thing as I see it would of course have been AmigaOS gone open-source a long time ago because then the Amiga community would have updated it and make sure it would have stayed as the best OS out there. It could have been under some kind of license which said that you are not allowed to base any other commercial products no the source code or something like that to prevent someone from stealing the OS. Not that I see that coming anyway since it can't be that much better code than anything else out there.
I like AmigaOS, I want AmigaOS, but I can live without it to... So if it's not a good product and if AmigaONE is way to expensive I'll do without it. Going PPC was a good choice since it's probably very hard to compete against windows on x86, but now I don't see how Amiga could compete with anyone at all so for the moment x86 looks like the better alternative since it would have given the Amiga users cheap hardware.
all of this is of course my personal thoughts...
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 73 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 23-Oct-2002 05:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Alkemyst):
>"Experienced computer users will never buy a dongle protected OS or program."
>what does windows-XP do then?
>The whole computer becomes a dongle,modo,gfx,sound cards
You call them experienced?
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 74 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 23-Oct-2002 06:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Alkemyst):
> So whats the point to that ?
The only point of all this is to guarantee a certain share of a market for "new" (new to AmigaOS) hardware, to a limited number of distributors. Currently the number of distributors is one (the one that was "consulted" when all this was decided), and the marketshare is 100%.
The "anti piracy" excuse from Amiga Inc. is total nonsense. Just that hardware distributors would supposedly be "allowed" to chose their own hardware-license verfication mechanism (it's got nothing to do with software piracy) like a USB dongle, as pointed out by Ben Hermans, should make this perfectly clear for anyone who's still in doubt. A USB dongle is simply not any more secure just because it's supplied by a hardware vendor instead of supplied with a shrinkwrapped separately sold copy of an OS. That separate copies actually WILL be sold for use with Amigas with PPC-acceleratos, without ANY hardware "protection", further helps to illustrate how ridiculous this excuse really is.
If normal hardware is "outlawed", then only outlaws (pirates) will be running the OS on normal hardware... Why would that be better than making the OS run on as much hardware as possible (and/or outsourcing that work) and actually SELLING the OS instead of having it "stolen"?
The "guaranteed compatibility" and "reviewing the capabilities" excuses are nonsense. You simply do not need to have hardware distributors license their products, modify/supply them with h/w-license mechanisms and become distributors of your software product to achieve this. It's just ridiculous. All that this will "guarantee" is that h/w distributors will shun you and your software will run on as little hardware as possible. This is obviously not A Good Thing, in case anyone's wondering. The TeronCX/"A1G3SE" was not even available in its "commercial" revision, neither did even a booting alpha version of AmigaOS exist when the ***entire "Eyetech's AmigaOne series"*** of h/w was announced as licensed in April! Noone in AI's offices had even touched a TeronCX before AmiWest in July, according to McEwen. Is that AI "specifically granting a license" after "reviewing the capabilities of both the solution provider and their product", or "a strict set of Quality Assurance certifications"?
The "tightest binding of the software to the hardware" excuse is nonsense, and scary nonsense at that, not to mention that it's an outright lie. AT LAST, AmigaOS will NOT require any custom made hardware from one source only, the OS will AT LAST be abstracted from hardware. There will fortunately be no more Amigas, only AmigaOS, its HAL, and whatever hardware you make it run on, though the main advantage of third party hardware from third party distributors will be nullified though the compulsory licensing idiocy. The days of Paulas, Agnuses, Denises and whatnot are over, when we want that we use our Amigas (or wait until some hardware giant buys the Amiga trademark and makes new Amigas - that are the fastest, cheapest home computers around, like Amigas originally were, and keeps up continuous development - but that ain't happening).
Why are there no compulsory licensing demands made at peripherals companies like ATI, NVidia, Crucial, Kingston, Symbios, 3com and so on to provide licensed "AmigaRAM-SE", "AmigaGraphicsCard-XE" and so on through selected distributors? That's where compatibility issues usually arise, but such an arrangement would be equally ridiculous.
Those are some points, Alkemyst.
While it's good that Thendic seems to be open to even distributing AOS with their hardware for Amiga Inc., it can't happen unless each and every Pegasos mobo is sold with AOS bundled as the licensing terms dictate, unless Thendic modifies a certain amount of Pegasoses with a license mechanism and sells only those machines with AOS. Keep in mind that this is just one, single, small, already Amiga-related company, and they have stretched this far. Now imagine e.g. Apple doing the same... It's a totally unnecessary hurdle against seeing AOS ported to any hardware to begin with, and the hurdle must be removed or AmigaOS can be declared dead right now.
AI, go ahead with licensing, bundling and quality certifications, but don't make it compulsory. You can't please all your customers all the time, but you can at least try to please as many as possible, not to piss them off, and not scaring them away by intentionally crippling your product.
Obligatory URL: http://www.petitiononline.com/amigaos
My fingers are tired now...
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 75 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 23-Oct-2002 07:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Seehund):
Sigh... not you again.
1. The licensing scheme is NOT restricting the AmigaOS4 to only run one certain peice of hardware, it will run on ANY hardware verified and certified to run AmigaOS4. What's wrong with wanting to ensure your customers that your product functions correctly with third party product X or Y and providing them with support for your product functioning along with those other products?
2. The anti-piracy measurements may not be fool-proof but, would you deny the fact that it will make piracy more difficult and therefore reduce the amount of illegal copies? We've all seen what piracy can do to the industry before, haven't we?
3. Why do you so desperately wish for competition on the Amiga market? The Amiga market has virtually no profitability as it is already and splitting those few bread crumbs that are left is not going to make your stomach any more full. You think the Macinstosh would be able to compete better against the PC market if you split the Macinstosh market into seperate competing companies? There's a reason for why the WWII Allies was allies, you know.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 76 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 23-Oct-2002 08:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Jedi):
LOL!!!!!!!
MorphOS the wanna-be AmigaOS, LOL!
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 77 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Jedi on 23-Oct-2002 08:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (priest):
> LOL!!!!!!!
>
> MorphOS the wanna-be AmigaOS, LOL!
With like comments, I'm sure that you haven't seen, and used, MorphOS running on Pegasos...
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 78 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 23-Oct-2002 08:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Jedi):
with SUCH comments rather seb ? Maybe I'm wrong...
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 79 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 23-Oct-2002 08:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (mahen):
(that's a translation issue ;)
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 80 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Oct-2002 09:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Jedi):
> With like comments, I'm sure that you haven't seen, and used, MorphOS running on Pegasos...
You dont get it, do you? Being an Amiga-like OS is not being an AmigaOS. It cannot contain any parts of previous AmigaOS so it must be a new OS.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 81 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by zZZzzzZZ on 23-Oct-2002 09:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (Jedi):
< (MorphOS is on Amiga Classic for 2 years).
Yeah right... Quark+some patches + API + Amiga OS3.1MOS 2 years ago!
I think the latest 'intuition' called Amber didn't exist back then. I wonder when was the first Amber compiled? ½ years ago?
In my opinion...I wouldn't buy nothing until I see ALL the cards on the table (on both sides)!
http://www.thendic-france.com/TECH/US/products/pegasos/pegasos.htm
Look at the software: It almost all Amiga...where's Papyrus office?
Look at the games: Only Mame (Arcade games emulator) is mentioned!
It's no good on the other side either! What we are missing is nice OS4 demo on A1. :(
People...just wait! (Like always) :-P
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 82 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by alan buxey on 23-Oct-2002 09:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anony Mouse):
>>Finally, and its a quick note, i do agree with Thendic's opinion that licences
>>should be sorted out from a licence manager. this is how the big boys of the
>>world do it - SUN, HP/COMPAQ etc all use vendor systems like flexlm that tie
>>the licence down to a machine with the correct CPU/ARP/KEY/Firmware-code etc
>Use Linux, BSD or HURD and you have no trouble with this kind of license issues.
..sorry, but there are still commercial programs that run on Linux - and use a
licence manager. thats why FlexLM, for example, runs on Linux...so people
can run tools such as NAG, IDL, etc
alan
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 83 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by alan buxey on 23-Oct-2002 09:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Jedi):
>For the moment, MorphOS sees the most REAL and indepth work on an AmigaOS seen >since OS 2.x to 3.0. And more.
I'd hope not ...as MorphOS isnt AmigaOS ...it should, if all parts correct
be an entriely different OS with different kernel which runs AmigaOS code
in a sandbox
alan
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 84 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by McGreg on 23-Oct-2002 09:46 GMT
priest:
I can tell you my g3-600 is faster than your 1.8Ghz athlon.at
least compared with sysspeed.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 85 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 23-Oct-2002 09:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Alkemyst):
You just answered... There's no point.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 86 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Jedi on 23-Oct-2002 09:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (mahen):
> with SUCH comments rather seb ? Maybe I'm wrong...
yes, "such" :p
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 87 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by alan buxey on 23-Oct-2002 09:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (strobe):
>device tree wasn't complete so I couldn't boot using a specific drive controller >so I changed the boot-device parameter to something like >/bandit@F2000000/ADPT,2930CU/@4,0:9. bandit is a PCI bus, ADPT,2930CU is a cheap >Adaptec SCSI card, 4 is the SCSI ID, 0 is the bus, 9 is the partition (a PC BIOS >can't even handle over 4 partitions). You usually also change the kernel
yes, its nice...but i can just imagine new computer users and non technical
people running screaming and bleedign away from this!!! 8-)
we dont want this sort of 'contact' with the OS and hardware if we want
Amiga to succeed (be it AONE with OS4.x, or the wolf-in-sheeps-clothes MorphOS
- on either AONE or Pegasos ;-) )
alan
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 88 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by AInc wouldn't like it if they knew... on 23-Oct-2002 10:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (samface):
WTF? What was the point of that post Sammyboy? You merely REPEATED each of the EXACT SAME arguments that the post you replied to SUMMARILY REFUTED!
That's totally pointless and a waste of everyone's time and bandwidth.
Seehund's post was long enough already, but very insightful (tho all this would be pretty basic stuff and obvious to anyone with even the slightest understanding of the tech business), and the marketing nonsense you parroted is already available for all to read on amiga.com. So, are you actively trying to make every thread you reply to boring or to act more stupid than you are? If you don't want to participate in a discussion, you're free to abstain from doing so. Well, have you got something NEW or INTERESTING to add, like arguments of your own, or WHY you feel that what you reply to is incorrect? Reasoning and stuff. That is if you don't really WANT to appear like a cluless cheerleading twat, incapable of independent thought.
"3. Why do you so desperately wish for competition on the Amiga market?"
You're not serious, are you? You're joking, right? Please tell me it's so.
First of all, there is no "Amiga" market, as there's no "Amiga" hardware. Cutting out and imposing control over a hardware market segment through trademark licensing creates a tiny, regulated, overpriced and non-developing artificial "market". It's not healthy. For a tiny, budding "fringe-OS" like AmigaOS it's premeditated suicide. Any OS, any software for that matter, depends on having the largest possible hardware install base, and you want to restrict that? Quite often it seems like some of the self-proclaimed AmigaOS-fans really want AmigaOS to die, including the company selling trademark licenses for it, or is it just the "the latest company with 'Amiga' in its name said so, so it must be right" symptom?
Your Mac comparison is so damn ludicrous and irrelevant to the AmigaOS situation so I won't bother addressing it. Hint: Apple makes and sells computers, they're called Macs. It's Apple's product.
", you know."
AAAARGH! The Samface "you know" trademark! *CRINGE* One of these days someone with less patience than me is gonna track you down and anally violate you with a broken bottle over that! ;') Please, no more "you know", OK? A lot more people think "not him again" when they see your nick than anybody else's, you know... >:')
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 89 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Oct-2002 10:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Seehund):
As usual you only see one side - yours.
> The only point of all this is to guarantee a certain share of a market for "new" (new to AmigaOS) hardware, to a limited number of distributors. Currently the number of distributors is one (the one that was "consulted" when all this was decided), and the marketshare is 100%.
Wrong. The point is to know which hardware can be used so it can be assured there are no incompatibilities. That whats the licensing process is about and anyone could apply for their own license for their hardware solution.
> Why would that be better than making the OS run on as much hardware as possible (and/or outsourcing that work) and actually SELLING the OS instead of having it "stolen"?
Because it would be a too big an effort to support any possible hardware.
> The "guaranteed compatibility" and "reviewing the capabilities" excuses are nonsense. You simply do not need to have hardware distributors license their products, modify/supply them with h/w-license mechanisms and become distributors of your software product to achieve this. It's just ridiculous. [...] provider and their product", or "a strict set of Quality Assurance certifications"?
You mix your opinion with obvious untruth. Locking software to one/several specific hardware is common business.
The rest is of your post is utter "nonsense" as well. Next time bring facts and not only your opinion.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 90 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Oct-2002 10:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (AInc wouldn't like it if they knew...):
> Your Mac comparison is so damn ludicrous and irrelevant to the AmigaOS situation so I won't bother addressing it. Hint: Apple makes and sells computers, they're called Macs. It's Apple's product.
Now tell me again Apple doesnt lock its software to specific hardware. It doesnt even ALLOW others theoretically.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 91 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Oct-2002 11:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (strobe):
You are not much better... You don't know more than any of us. You don't know if they are testing with AmigaOne or Classic Amigas. It's possible they already test with AmigaOne, but you EXPECT it's not possible, but you really don't know right ? Al still you are spreading your EXPECTATIONS as a truth. Let's all wait a bit more. Then we will see how close OS4 and MOS really are to be released.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 92 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 23-Oct-2002 11:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (Anonymous):
Do not us Apple as an example. Apple have their market share and make specific
computers with a specific OS. Amiga Inc have a pitiful market (how much is it
now? 0.001 of the computer market?) and they SAY that they want to widen it.
This way they DO NOT widen it, the narrow it down more than it already is.
If the licencing scheme is continued, OS4 will have no growth and will die,
together with the Amiga, for the last time...
Isn't it a pity god damn it!? People are spiting their blood to make OS4,
and it will be wasted.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 93 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Anon - I hope to be welcome after the "vacation" ; on 23-Oct-2002 11:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Anonymous):
And ANOTHER one totally ignoring what the post he replies to said, yapping away with the exact same stuff that was refuted. Sigh!
"Wrong. The point is to know which hardware can be used so it can be assured there are no incompatibilities."
Numbnuts, that was addressed in the original post, you even quoted it before a non-sequitur response about how "common" it is to "lock software to hardware": "You simply do not need to have hardware distributors license their products, modify/supply them with h/w-license mechanisms and become distributors of your software product to achieve this. " Which is 100% true and fscking self explanatory.
Feel like addressing THAT instead of just REPEATING exactly what's being argued against?
" That whats the licensing process is about and anyone could apply for their own license for their hardware solution. "
No shit Sherlock. The point is that nobody applies for such licenses. There's no incentive, only obligations. It's an anticompetitive action that only benefits Eyetech. You're free to buy a license from me to hit yourself in the face with a sledgehammer, why won't you buy it? AmigaOS is not as popular and market dominating as Windows, if you need to have that spelled out. The other point is, as repeatedly has been pointed out, there's no need for COMPULSORY licensing and bundling and stuff to port a piece of software. That is what stops a piece of software from ever running on a piece of hardware. Making any software run on any hardware and selling that software is not the job of hardware vendors.
"Because it would be a too big an effort to support any possible hardware."
I understand that English is not your first language, but how the fsck do you avoid to comprehend the meaning of the word "possible" when you even use it yourself? Who says AmigaOS must run on RS/6000s or ASCI White or every obscure Mac revision there is? It must run on as much hardware as possible, period, and be open to ports to any feasible hardware without compulsory licensing requirements in the way. AmigaOS is the product, it needs to be sold, and a product needs the largest possible market. Keyword: Possible (or feasible, rather). It wouldn't even have to be Hyperion who did the job if they don't feel like it, and customer support for HARDWARE is provided by, surprise surprise, HARDWARE vendors.
> The rest is of your post is utter "nonsense" as well. Next time bring facts
> and not only your opinion.
So you brought facts then? Right. As far as I'm concerned it seems like you're supporting competing options by being against the most basic prerequisite for AmigaOS to survive. But that's just my opinion, and we don't want opinions here, do we?
And it continues:
> Now tell me again Apple doesnt lock its software to specific hardware.
Who said that they don't? (Well, they don't technically, but that's another can of worms.)
It's Apple's hardware, they make a living on selling Macs. Sure as fsck they "lock" their software to THEIR hardware. AInc or Hyperion don't have any hardware of their own.
> It doesnt even ALLOW others theoretically.
I DON'T want a piece of what you're smoking! I doubt I could handle that kind of alternate reality. Anyone is free to run anything they damn please on a Mac. Again, Apple makes a living on their hardware. If you buy it, yo're free to run Linux on it, port Atari STOS to it or use it as a boat anchor, or *GASP* port AmigaOS to it. Hell, NEW Macs are even sold with Linux preinstalled on them FFS! Does the "theoretically" only apply if one abuses hallucinogenic substances?
You must be one of those "Morphos fans" I've heard so much about. Well, so far it seems like your wish will be granted and AI will choke AmigaOS to death in its crib.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 94 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Oct-2002 11:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (Anon - I hope to be welcome after the "vacation" ;):
Sure you can run "anything" on MAC but you are not theretically allowed to run MacOS on other platforms. Don't know it that is what he meant...
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 95 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 23-Oct-2002 11:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (AInc wouldn't like it if they knew...):
> You merely REPEATED each of the EXACT SAME arguments that the post you
> replied to SUMMARILY REFUTED!
Tell me about it.
The pattern goes like this:
Someone: AInc said X, and I don't like X because [explanation of why Someone thinks X is bad], and I think Y would be better.
Sheep: X!
Someone: What?
Sheep: X, X, X, X!!! X!
Someone: I just said I don't agree that X is a good thing, because [explains AGAIN]
Sheep: X! Why don't you listen??? XXX!!! X, damnit!
Someone: Why do YOU think X is good, and why do you think Y is bad?
Sheep: X!
Someone: Huh?
Sheep: X! AInc. said X, so it must be good! X! X! Uh... Look at Apple!!
Someone: Oh well, I think I'll start a petition.
;)
But of course there are sensible people capable of arguing independently for what they think is right, whatever that may be. It's just the sheep that are the loudest.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 96 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by brotheris on 23-Oct-2002 11:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (McGreg):
I can tell you my g3-600 is faster than your 1.8Ghz athlon.at
least compared with sysspeed.
---------------------------------
Could you please make some more tests (you can try doing those on petunia website, decoding/encoding mp3) and make results available somewhere on the web ?
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 97 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by McGreg on 23-Oct-2002 12:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (brotheris):
Sorry I cannot.NDA.
But how fasr can a 1.8Ghz amithlon encode mp3s? tell me please.
How fast is mame-emulator ?
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 98 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Oct-2002 12:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (Anon - I hope to be welcome after the "vacation" ;):
Morphos fan? lol
Maybe Im just not as narrow minded as you.
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 99 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 23-Oct-2002 12:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 75 (samface):
> 2. The anti-piracy measurements may not be fool-proof but, would you deny
> the fact that it will make piracy more difficult and therefore reduce the
> amount of illegal copies?
No it won't! And you know, it only has to be cracked once, and then the whole dongle thing is totally obsolete ...
MorphOS, the Pegasos, and other PPC Operating Systems and Platforms : Comment 100 of 137ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 23-Oct-2002 13:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 95 (Seehund):
:-)
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