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[News] Sendo junks MS smartphoneANN.lu
Posted on 07-Nov-2002 12:12 GMT by Tor Anders Johansen60 comments
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The Register says that Sendo junks MS smartphone and joins Nokia camp. Sendo, the UK handset maker was supposed to launch its Z100 MS 'Stinger' handset this month into Spain and Italy. Sendo today announced that it's stopping all development on the Windows for Smartphone 2002 platform. It is instead signing a licence for Series 60, the Nokia smartphone platform erected upon the Symbian OS. I guess this means no Amiga Anywhere for Sendo phones.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 1 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Robert on 07-Nov-2002 11:35 GMT
> I guess this means no Amiga Anywhere for Sendo phones.
Sure looks that way.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 2 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by 4pLaY on 07-Nov-2002 11:38 GMT
If this is true its the same old story over again :).
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 3 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 07-Nov-2002 11:38 GMT
... Amiga Nowhere ...
Nokia is the world leader in mobile communication. That won't change anytime soon. I'm surprised that AINC hasn't "teamed up" (heh) with Nokia to support their solution. Perhaps "Amiga" "anywhere" can't run on symbian and it's offsprings? Anyway, JAVA is becoming the standard for mult platform mobile apps, not TAO. The bus has left.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 4 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Robert on 07-Nov-2002 11:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (takemehomegrandma):
> I'm surprised that AINC hasn't "teamed up" (heh) with
> Nokia to support their solution.
Eh, they did.
It fell on it's arse too.
Robert
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 5 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Bouma on 07-Nov-2002 11:52 GMT
Interesting, but AmigaDE runs on Symbian as well, and Nokia has not forgotten about the AmigaDE... Hhhmmm..
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 6 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Nov-2002 11:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (takemehomegrandma):
The Nokia Media Terminal was supposed to run Amiga Anywhere :)
Look at this:
http://www.amiga.com/corporate/102401-deplayer.shtml
"The AmigaDE Player is built through a partnership with the Tao-Group of Reading England and utilizes the intent® media system as its foundation.
Using this technology, Amiga is able to provide users the ability to access applications written for the Amiga Digital Environment on standard desktop computers as well as other devices; such as the Compaq iPaq, Casio Cassiopeia, Sharp Zaurus or the Psion NetBook in the very near future.
The first release is for the Microsoft Windows and Linux platforms, with AmigaDE Players in development for PocketPC, EPOC, Palm, WinCE, and other systems to be released in the coming months."
EPOC is the same as Symbian.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 7 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Nov-2002 11:53 GMT
AmigaDE for Symbian phones would be nice...maybe Nokia will act as marketing muscle then? ;)
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 8 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by nicomen on 07-Nov-2002 11:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Mike Bouma):
lol @ mike, slashdot, ann, what next? moobunny ?
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 9 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 07-Nov-2002 12:09 GMT
As I said at the MooBunny a few days ago... when something Amiga related goes into M$ phone, the next logical step is that M$ abandons mobile phone business.
Well, M$ has not yet abandoned the business, but...
Anyway, that's something that I do not know wether to be happy about or not ... (thinking from different Amiga/Nokia/user viewpoints...)
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 10 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Troels E on 07-Nov-2002 12:18 GMT
Does this mean anything to Amiga?
The Sendo phone was supposed to be using the same game-packs theres now distributed by M$, this will (hopefully...7-9-13) happen anyway.
Gamepacks for non-M$ devices can still be sold over the web or through local stores if Amiga fail to find a worldwide distributor.
Or (more likely)...As Nokia is _very_ eager to get more content to the Symbian (Epoc) platform Amiga may do a deal like the one with M$, Intent is available for Symbian.
(There's no reason to mention the Nokia mediaterminal it was cancelled and that had nothing to do with Amiga.)
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 11 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 07-Nov-2002 12:20 GMT
Reasoning why M$ smartphone was easier target to get AACE on:
- M$ got nothing to loose on the mobile sector, only things to gain
- Nokia is the leader mobile phones, they've got a lot of things to loose, so they take less risks with untested technology
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 12 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 07-Nov-2002 12:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (priest):
Besides Nokia HAS tested AmigaDE allready.. They had that MediaTernimal on works (and even announced by Amiga Inc) that was cancelled earlier this year (was it around february?). So theu do know what DE can do and what it can't.
Ah well.. It took amazingly long before this all happened.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 13 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Troels E on 07-Nov-2002 12:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (priest):
"Reasoning why M$ smartphone was easier target to get AACE on:
- M$ got nothing to loose on the mobile sector, only things to gain
- Nokia is the leader mobile phones, they've got a lot of things to loose, so they take less risks with untested technology"
Sorry Priest but thats not true.
M$ have worked on this in a long time they have teamed up with retail channels and phone companies, they have a huge investment and their good reputation (outside the Amiga comm. :-) to loose.
Nokia is _still_ the leader but the next couple of years will probably tell us is that continues, i'm not so sure anymore.
About taking risks with untested technology: If Nokia choose to distribute Amiga content they would offcourse test it properly before it gets released, any big company does that.
If they don't want to distribute it (they have a deal with Sega..) they cant stop Amiga from selling gamepaks for their devices, but in that case Nokia doesn't earn anything and can't test it.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 14 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 07-Nov-2002 12:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (JoannaK):
I know. ;)
(Mediaterminal was ready and shipping and I think AmigaDE HAL was being written & tested to be released in March, Nokia announcced that the coming SW update to MT will have the AACE, but... the sad history ... problem is that a lot of people behind MT development & AmigaDE know how was sacked.)
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 15 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 07-Nov-2002 12:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Troels E):
"Nokia is _still_ the leader but the next couple of years will probably tell us is that continues, i'm not so sure anymore. "
Time will tell, ofcourse.
I would very much like to see AACE on Nokia devices.
It would be very difficult to get it factory loaded into Nokia phones, but as a memory cartridges / web download it would be possible.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 16 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by q on 07-Nov-2002 13:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (priest):
Well, I know this is useless post, but still... it would have been much more pleasant if amiga had made those deals with nokia instead of ms...
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 17 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Nov-2002 14:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Troels E):
Well I rather believe Nokia will be leader in the future too than Ericsson or MS :D Nokia is so big and they have so much resources for development that I really don't belive others have any change to beat them :)
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 18 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by acg on 07-Nov-2002 15:33 GMT
Well, this should be fine for AmigaDE..supposedly it can run on any OS or
chipset, (assuming the translators are written)...so it doesn't matter which
companies come and go....so maybe it's OK that it "teamed" with Microsoft, that
will give it some marketability....but I am a little perplexed about all of
"announcements" for PDA's and smartphones, that all of sudden get axed or
cut down seriously....(e.g. Sharp Zaurus, Nokia terminal, Sendo )....why not just come out with the product and start selling it. Forget the announcements.
What are we going to hear next, "MS is not going to comarket AmigaDE apps, since
part of its anti-trust agreement with Sun and Java is to embrace Java by Sun?"
Actually, what they really need, is an Amiga DE for AmigaOS. Even though the
market is small, they would have at least sales of 5-10 thousand (as long as the
price is about $19.95), and some games and apps. would follow, and if you could run those apps. on your smartphone, which I think a lot of Amigans will buy, it would be a boost. I don't really think you need Microsoft to make money in this world, but you can make more in the shortterm working with(for) them , until Microsoft absorbs you, or kills you.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 19 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by It's ME!!! on 07-Nov-2002 15:33 GMT
ME likes to see people making castles in the air...
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 20 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by PaulT on 07-Nov-2002 16:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (priest):
Nokia is a big dog, for sure. But what only some of you are noticing, is that the Amiga jinx is just following along, smiting any company doing business with Amiga. For what it is worth, it has morphed into a pre-jinx, where every phone/ smartPDA/ whatever that is _about to_ dump a bunch of licensing fees into Amiga, Inc.'s coffers, gets the axe. (Nokia, Sendo, every one of the deals evaporates! Police say, Once is chance, two is coincidence, three is a conspiracy!) It's just that it's now a mixed blessing as A, Inc. has M$ ties, and M$ is getting screwed along with McCoupon!
:)
I just figure that Bill and company are now in a cheap rented basement somewhere nearer Redmond, with all of their phones and internet being handled by piggybacking on the building's single DSL line, and the answering machine being run on GVP Phonepak boards in an A2000. They all dress warmly because of no heat, and are drinking Costco coffee. Everyone still working there has a working spouse or is living with family. One day some technology with Amiga licensing will actually sell some copies, and they'll get to reclaim their equipment and personal photographs from the old office.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 21 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by z5 on 07-Nov-2002 17:39 GMT
This was even faster than any other deal Amiga Inc made...just amazing...
Oh well, i think it's time Amiga Inc abandon their 'write once, run nowhere' idea together with their PDA idea, which was total crap in the first place. Let's face it, their product was announced to run everywhere, and it actually runs nowhere.
Do the decent thing AInc. Either concentrate on OS4 or put the Amiga to rest for ever. There is no way in the world you can compete with the big boys. Don't drag the name of THE BEST COMPUTER EVER into the mud...
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 22 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 07-Nov-2002 17:42 GMT
The supposed fact is that intent is supposed to be able to run on anything there has been a translator written for, Hence, so is anything that is written to run on intent.
So one must wonder what all the partner crap is all about. Tao Creates the translators and Amoga does content and it runs on different and various hardware.... from different manufactures...
Maybe someone thinks Linux needs to partner with all the hardware manufactures it runs on????
So now Amiga in their partnership with MS are going to develope content specific for Windows????
Where the hell is all the cross platform crap that was so heavely promoted and hyped these past years.... the benefits of Tao intent???
How many name followers can perform the following equasion?
1 + 1_____
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 23 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 07-Nov-2002 17:56 GMT
I am eagerly awaiting for the day that Microsoft announce that they are bundling AmigaAnywhere with Windows....
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 24 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by david on 07-Nov-2002 18:09 GMT
I really wanted to ask Nokia to make Space Impace in color and have two players but they keep it in black and white. I thought bringing it to the Amiga DE will give it a larger audience! (and Totally Rad Snowboarding for the Communicator is rumored to have Anime characters...)
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 25 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 07-Nov-2002 18:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (z5):
I realized that this current situation is quite funny.
AmigaInc is selling Amazing (and nonexistent) content to be used with M$'s Revolutionary (and also nonexistent) SmartPhones.
One day we'll all look back and wonder how this all happened. :)
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 26 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 07-Nov-2002 19:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (JoannaK):
Ah, so as the Amiga content already exists that must mean the Microsoft phone
must already exist.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 27 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Nov-2002 19:40 GMT
Executive 1: "We need to axe this project. It's going nowhere and it's a guaranteed loss."
Exec2: "Yeah, and we'll be able to transfer those resources to our new project."
E1: "OK. I hear there's this company specializing in taking on failures from companies like ours. Some yahoo called McEwan or something left a business card. Apparently they announce what they call 'partnerships' because it gives them some attention. Playing with the big boys you know..."
E2: "Heh. Yeah, getting some buzz for free. OK, what the heck, as long as it doesn't cost us anything. I'll give them a call."
Recorded message: "We're sorry, but the number you dialled has been disconnected..."
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 28 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Paul H on 07-Nov-2002 20:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (takemehomegrandma):
> Anyway, JAVA is becoming the standard for multi platform mobile apps,
> not TAO. The bus has left.
TAO Intent can run JAVA apps... It's on the bus.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 29 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 07-Nov-2002 20:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Paul H):
And it can do 1 time translations to "native" code of Java apps for
ultra speed without the memory gobbing overhead of a JIT cache.
Something that has only just started to "work" well on Linux.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 30 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 07-Nov-2002 20:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Paul H):
I know. But as I wrote in another thread:
... "Certainly not the industry, they have choosen JAVA, and buing intent when the only thing you are interested in is it's JAVA capabilities is like buying a bus to get a ride downtown. It's paying more money for something that is more than you want or need ..."
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 31 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Paul H on 07-Nov-2002 21:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (takemehomegrandma):
I don't know what TAO charges.. so I can't comment on that..
TAO Intent has other advantages that may be useful..
C/C++ development for a Write-Once-NO-Recompile-needed approach,
or for porting C/C++ games (Doom/Quake).
Good display/sound libraries etc.....
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 32 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 07-Nov-2002 21:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Mike Bouma):
Sorry, Nokia is going to work with SEGA for game contents.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 33 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 07-Nov-2002 22:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Gabriele Favrin):
>Sorry, Nokia is going to work with SEGA for game contents.
Well, as you surely know by now, business deals can fall through.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 34 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 07-Nov-2002 22:23 GMT
Just found this one from Sendos web page... http://www.sendo.com/dev/index.asp
"Any qualifying developer who has paid for a Z100 developer beta kit as part of the Early Developer Program may receive a refund by logging in and completing the form with requested information on the developers site. >>Click Here<< for details."
Shows a lot how much they DO care about their developers. I wonder when any Amiga releated firm starts to behave like that. Ah well, I think I'll rather start looking more info about that new Series 60 programming.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 35 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Write Once Stop Caring Go Home on 08-Nov-2002 00:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Paul H):
No-one cares about re-compiling. That's one of the lessons of Free Unix. If you have the source (and these games companies of course have the source because they're mostly doing everything in-house) then your main portability problems are those that Tao and AInc can't solve. One PDA has fast rotate, 400x200 and 4 channel PCM, while another has slow rotate, 200x640 and FM synth.
The PC and PS2 versions of GTA3 are both built on portability libraries. Do you think the main problem was getting the compiler to spit out a Windows binary? Of course not, that was probably working at the end of the first week. The remaining months were spent creating more graphics, adjusting for the different quirks of the two systems, implementing completely different controls, adding PC-only features like the MP3 player and testing on the dozens of different PC systems.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 36 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 08-Nov-2002 00:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (JoannaK):
Sure Joanna
For someone so concerned about her image as a genius, there is an awful lot of innuendo and bollocks in that statement. (as you know doubt well know)
The proof is ultimately in the pudding, not amongst the lap crumbs of an arm chair quarterback.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 37 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 08-Nov-2002 00:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (nicomen):
Yea, he's pretty funny.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 38 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Gabriele Favrin on 08-Nov-2002 01:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (KenH):
Do you think that Nokia is going to leave Sega and keep Amiga Anywhere
games?
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 39 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Nov-2002 01:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Anonymous):
ROTFLBTC!
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 40 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 08-Nov-2002 02:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (anonymous):
I'm not so interested to comment on other issues you bought up, but I was greatly surpriced to see such refund plan announced by Sendo, as I have not expected to see companies caring about their developers. But as I'm not their developer I can't tell if it works on practise. But I like the idea though.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 41 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 08-Nov-2002 03:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Robert):
>Eh, they did.
>It fell on it's arse too.
Can you back up your statement with evidence?
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 42 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 08-Nov-2002 03:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (JoannaK):
>AmigaInc is selling Amazing (and nonexistent) content to be used with M$'s
>Revolutionary (and also nonexistent) SmartPhones.
Very smart comment, I'm sure all the developers on Open, AmigaDEV and AmigaSDA and other lists will appreciate it. Since when unknown to you means nonexistent? If Microsoft is set to release packs on a certain date do they necessarily have to tell you in advance what will be in it?
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 43 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Nov-2002 03:51 GMT
This is the best news I have heard for quite a while...
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 44 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 08-Nov-2002 04:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Anonymous):
> This is the best news I have heard for quite a while...
If so, I can only pity you.
.
SlimJim
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 45 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-Nov-2002 04:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Gabriele Favrin):
Having both is better.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 46 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 08-Nov-2002 06:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Write Once Stop Caring Go Home):
"problems that they cant solve" + "tweaking to account for differences between chipsets"
I agree with you on the compilation front but the whole point of Intent is that
it even abstracts you from needing to worry about that.
Now you as a developer have to sit down and work out if you are to take the
performance hit versus getting the job done quickly.
Dave.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 47 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 08-Nov-2002 07:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (amigammc):
We have all heard lots of promices of thousands of active developers, with hundreds of applications (not only games) being released for DE. But all this has been claimed year (or more) ago. I'm not going to check those old speeches Mr Fleecy had given for exact numbers/dates but this whole issue has bee stale so long I really don't belive it has much momentum in it anymore.
And yes.. I have seen those forums at Amigadev.net and some other areas.. I'm not goin to tell anything that's not public info.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 48 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Nov-2002 08:29 GMT
Why would it mean no Amiga Anywhere for Sendo phones?
Its called Amiga Anywhere because it can run anywhere, its already been got working on symbian.
If anything this is good because it'll give Amiga a chance to show its content on symbian phones.
Remember content is king, Sendo dumped Microsoft because it couldn't provide a decent platform to run the content on. They didn't dump Amiga.
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 49 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Nov-2002 10:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Anonymous):
Ah, it's all in the naming. So if I call my next product "Amiga is dead you idiots" you will finally get it?
Sendo junks MS smartphone : Comment 50 of 60ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 08-Nov-2002 10:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (PaulT):
I blame myself. Everything, and I MEAN EVERYTHING I latch on to, sinks fast, BIGTIME! god IS out to get me.
I became an Amiga (sweet A2000) owner in 89, and it was all downhill since then....
Amiga! I've experinced the hell that windows98se is, first hand since Aug. 2002; uncle!!
P. S. Mr. z5 said "The Best Computer Ever". I concur, it was/is a microcosm (minature) of what a REAL computer is supposed to be.
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