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[News] Letting the World KnowANN.lu
Posted on 20-Nov-2002 04:10 GMT by amigammc216 comments
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On the Amiga Website you'll find a joint communicate from Amiga, Hyperion and Eyetech. November 19, 2002 - With the AmigaOne now shipping and AmigaOS4.0 in its final stages of development and testing, the time has come to begin letting the rest of the world know the good news, that the Amiga is alive, well and ready to let the World have fun with computing again. Read more...
Letting the World Know : Comment 1 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Steve on 20-Nov-2002 06:09 GMT
This remind me a very similar announcement that Amiga Inc made in
summer 2001.
It's quite funny to see they have to precise that at the CeBit
this will be the launch of OS 4.0 not the availibility. It seems
that'll need to wait for some additional months again...
Letting the World Know : Comment 2 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by m0ns00n on 20-Nov-2002 06:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Steve):
>Have no doubt that after 8 years of darkness, 2003 will be the year that the
>Amiga once again makes the World remember that there is a better way.
Have to ask though. Do you, Hermans, Redhouse, McEven, Fleecy, have the power to compete, now that Microsoft has stepped even further in assimilating the computing market? With their new "buzz": "Digital decade vision: From personal computer to personal computing" - dot Net, they are going to infiltrate even more markets. Big companies are turning over their developments to .Net, and locking out, on a broad scale, people who use either Apples, Unixes or Amigas too. It is a disaster, but is there anything you can do?
If you want to make computing fun again, you need to get this computing TO me. You can not make computing fun with asking me to "track you down and buy from you *please*". We live in an era when, if you do not make your OS widely available, and competitive with features (for example: we have a dot-net enabled environment for programmers in AmigaOS, etc, with support, or, we fully support Apache, MySQL etcetc in the OS as Windows supports IIS, ASP etc), I am afraid you cannot get an OS out unless you make it downloadable, at least a "Personal Edition" or something. We should all have this experience by now.
The point is:
To make computing fun, you should enable the user to do all the things he expects to be able to do on a computer, though in a fun environment. The EULAs and "locked down" atmosphere of Windows is terrible, even so on Mac <= 9. They restrict the user in looking at alternatives, even though they let him/her work.
What you need to be able to do is to offer a solution where us users can go straight on scripting in PHP/ASP(perl) etc, use MySQL and other OSS SQL solutions, get on with rendering our 3D models and scenes/animations. We must be enabled to be productive in the market of today, if not everything will stay on the hobby basis and we can just go home. We need to be able to install AmigaOS and continue working as freelancers, or even take the OS into the office.
You know what I say, and you know I am right. If this will not come with os4, then when will it; nothing more is interesting for me personally, and I guess many others, as we simply do not have time for this platform as a hobby anymore.
Letting the World Know : Comment 3 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by m0ns00n on 20-Nov-2002 06:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Steve):
Sorry, this was supposed to be a reply to their annoucenemtn ;) Not to your post
Letting the World Know : Comment 4 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by iSteve on 20-Nov-2002 06:48 GMT
Does anyone really, deep down, believe that developers will start writing software for OS 4.0? (I'm not talking shareware here, but professional applications, commercial games).
Does anyone really, deep down, believe that the AmigaOne will sell in numbers higher than 1,000 - 2,000 tops when there is no commercial support and an OS that does not offer half the features available with modern operating systems like Mac OS X?
If Amiga really wants a comeback and a worldwide presence to set out it's stall, it should start by getting people's feet wet. Give them a freely downloadable version of AmigaOS that works with their existing hardware (by and large, this means x86), using a Linux or BSD kernel to provide hardware drivers, with AmigaOS GUI built on top and internal emulation to support existing Amiga apps. Then give it away and let people experiment with it. Even make it GPL so that people really feel they have a say over it's development and can get involved and contribute to the project.
Once AmigaOS is a viable solution again, then Amiga can step in with word processors, spreadsheets, office apps, OS extensions, manuals, t-shirts.. and the like and target it at their new market.
Right now, there IS no market. 2,000 customers is not a market. And a customer hardware platform running an outdated operating system will NOT sell to the general public in meaningful numbers. Deep down, we all know that, too. We need to start facing reality. This is nothing more than a quick cash cow for Amiga Inc.
Letting the World Know : Comment 5 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by NihilVor on 20-Nov-2002 07:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Steve):
I think it was meant to insinuate that the software might be out prior to the show, where it would be demonstrated outside of the Amiga community.
Half empty or half full, depending on how you want to read it. Good to see that they are going back to CeBit. Amiga hasn't had a real presence there since 1996
Letting the World Know : Comment 6 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by kriz on 20-Nov-2002 07:24 GMT
yeah! Bring it on! maybe this will come as a surprise to alot of the cebit crowd :)
Letting the World Know : Comment 7 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 20-Nov-2002 07:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Steve):
Product availability, according to KDH: AmigaOneG3-SE 29Nov2002, OS4 for CSPPC 7Dec2002, AmigaOneXE-G4 16Dec2002. ...
Hopefully OS4 appears also for AmigaOne before March.
Letting the World Know : Comment 8 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 20-Nov-2002 07:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (priest):
... and the date for pegasos availability: TODAY.
Letting the World Know : Comment 9 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Elwood on 20-Nov-2002 07:40 GMT
Nice to see this is the first time they don't tell anything about AmigaDE, they talk only about AmigaOS ! :-)
Letting the World Know : Comment 10 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Andrea Maniero on 20-Nov-2002 07:47 GMT
Am I the only one who thinks that the main point of this announcement is that they are not going to the Aachen show? Or did I misunderstood something?
Kind regards,
Andrea
Letting the World Know : Comment 11 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 20-Nov-2002 07:50 GMT
They seem to be doing something for the AmigaOS4, some of the PR/marketing.
(sometimes it's very bad, sometimes it's ok)
Letting the World Know : Comment 12 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Elwood on 20-Nov-2002 07:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (priest):
availability or MorphOS ? Not yet ! :-)
Letting the World Know : Comment 13 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Bladerunner on 20-Nov-2002 07:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Andrea Maniero):
Yeah, and that decission is Imho veerry bad (or good, depends on which point you look at ;-) )
for them. The Aachen show is the only Amiga Show this year in Germany and you can
count on it, there will be maaany maaany Users.. What will they think if noone of the Officials is here,
but Eyetech with an Armada of Pegasos Boards.. Yeah, that is well done AI, Eyetech and Hyperion, I bet after this Show, there
will be many Users carrying their Pegasos away. And don`t forget, Germany was once the biggest Amiga market,
most of the best Hard and Software add ons where done here (not all, thats not what i want to say, but to much to ignore it)
Letting the World Know : Comment 14 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Robert on 20-Nov-2002 07:59 GMT
Aw, dry your eyes, the lot of you! :)
This is, IMHO, a very psoitive announcement.
The fact that it is a joint statement from the three
firms makes it much more 'real' in my eyes.
But all I see here so far is people throwing their rattles
and various other assorted kiddy toys out of their prams.
According to this, you will, in a few months time, be able to go along
to a *mainstream* computer show and, for the first time in many years,
*buy* a new Amiga. IDGAS whether you *consider* it to be 'Amiga' or not.
Fact is, *it* is. And people will be able to buy them. It may not be ideal
but it's the as good as things have been since C= went bust. Bring it on...
Robert
Letting the World Know : Comment 15 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Joe Vidueira on 20-Nov-2002 08:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (kriz):
Sure looks like the Amiga *COMPUTER* is back! And the fact that they're ready to start promoting it to mainstream users indicates they must be pretty happy with how things are shaping up :-)
Letting the World Know : Comment 16 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 20-Nov-2002 09:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (priest):
are you saying its finished ? ive only seen the Betatester packages, its in the
name, its beta.....same as a1 are sent to betatesters, only pegasos alows any1
to be betatester, and Eyetech selected its betatesters...
or did I miss something....?
Letting the World Know : Comment 17 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 20-Nov-2002 09:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Robert):
Just wait untill this news item gets to MooBunny....
Letting the World Know : Comment 18 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Sam Smith on 20-Nov-2002 09:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (priest):
So the Pegasos with MorphOS is out then?
When can we expect reviews?
---
Sam
Letting the World Know : Comment 19 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by migga on 20-Nov-2002 09:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Andrea Maniero):
"Am I the only one who thinks that the main point of this announcement
is that they are not going to the Aachen show? Or did I misunderstood
something?"
You should also notice that UK doesn`t belong to europe anymore.
Letting the World Know : Comment 20 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Bladerunner on 20-Nov-2002 09:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Robert):
so please give me an answer, who actually will buy a new Amiga?
Those which had an A 500 in the early 90`s , reading about the new A One and
fall into nostalgic moments, but when it`s over they turn back to windows, or
the people who have been waiting until now to have something which represent the Amiga of today?
I am not sure, but i doubt that the old A 500 Users will switch back for an Aone..
why should they? for the nostalgic Moments, there is UAE and what can i say, it is even more compatible
to the old games they `ve played.
The market for the first round are clearly the current amigians.
And remember what happend on Woase.. ok, there where many who complained over the bugs in MOS, but
actually there where also many people who had to admit, yeah the pegaos/Mos bundle is not as bad as
othes have said.
And hey, Eytech was on this fair, Hyperion and afair Fleecy.. now imagine what will happen if noone of them is
official present in Aachen, on a fair which will muuuuuch bigger then any other fair in Europe!
Yeaah, as i said before, well done AI :-)
Hmm.. perhaps Mc Ewewn is actually a Thendic employee??? *hehe*
BTW, Peronally i think it is a very bad behaviour which is done on amiga.org
Making the Aachen fair "just" to a retro fair is pretty much unfair!
You know, it Jens Schoenfeld who arrange this fair! And its not only called "Retro computing"
it`s calles Amiga and Retrocomputing!
Letting the World Know : Comment 21 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 20-Nov-2002 09:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Bladerunner):
>so please give me an answer, who actually will buy a new Amiga?
any1 who wants it ? Amiga users, to me, is pretty smart/educated, have good jobs and many work in the tech/computer/IT world, and therefore make good money and
can afford to have this hobby :)
Letting the World Know : Comment 22 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 20-Nov-2002 09:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (catohagen):
So your answer is "existing Amiga-users " ? About right I would say.
And now guess where you will reach more of that kind, in Aachen or
Hannover (Cebit) ?
Letting the World Know : Comment 23 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Robert on 20-Nov-2002 09:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Bladerunner):
> so please give me an answer, who actually will buy a new Amiga?
Well me, for a start. But that's hardly the point. The point is they will *be able* to.
That's something which hasn't been possible for years.
Letting the World Know : Comment 24 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 20-Nov-2002 09:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Kronos):
well, could be ex users also, like hw died and forced to be bored in win world,
but i have no idea where you will find more existing users, ofcourse when
desperate you get the best you find and grab it while you can....on the other side,
waiting is a quality most amiga users have a lot of....
Letting the World Know : Comment 25 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Sam Smith on 20-Nov-2002 09:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (iSteve):
It will be very very very tough for the Amiga to make any sort of meaningful comeback.
The 399 price point complete Amiga is not present this time around (even though Eyetech have made some positive comments towards building a similar system) and we have no killer games. Sure we have some excellent conversions from Hyperion but we have no Amiga-only games like SOTB or other stunners like Sword of Sodan.
Having said all of that Amigans have been given a second chance to buy their machine again. There will be a new OS based entirely on the original and not some Linux/QNX copy. It will run on a powerful new machine based on powerful hardware. How many other computer formats have been in limbo for so long and then returned with (albeit not quite AAAA - at least not yet ;)) new hardware and a new OS?
The bottom line for me is that I have the opportunity to get my Amiga back - if it's a storming success that's a very big bonus - but the chance to support the Amiga actively again is an opportunity I don't want to look back on and say I missed.
---
Sam
PS - What happened to Dave Pleasence and Colin Proudfoot?
Letting the World Know : Comment 26 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 20-Nov-2002 09:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Kronos):
The announcement clearly stated that they are targeting not just the existing Amiga community but also those 5 million former Amiga users as well as those simply looking for an alternative to the existing options of today. That actually makes the existing Amiga comunity only a small part of the targeted market segment. That's also why it makes more sense to display their products on bigger shows like CeBit rather than Aachen.
Letting the World Know : Comment 27 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Robert on 20-Nov-2002 09:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Sam Smith):
Well said, Sam. :)
Letting the World Know : Comment 28 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Ben on 20-Nov-2002 09:39 GMT
"Amiga Inc is fully occupied fulfilling an AmigaAnywhere contract, and product launch. Whilst visiting with all of you is important, we believe that it is more important to ship products right now..."
Do the t-shirts count as products?
Letting the World Know : Comment 29 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Bladerunner on 20-Nov-2002 09:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (catohagen):
Huuu? what was this? new link? report abuse? I hope the message won`t be deleted,
i just want to reply, and had obviously the wrong link!
Yes, you are right, amigians have learned to wait, because (speaking for myself)
there was nothing which looked and felt like Amiga. Perhaps many good OSes out there, but
nothing whith the feeling.. But you have to aware, MOS looks and feels like Amiga OS!
So my guess is, many undecided User visit the fair have a look at MOS and think, hey
that looks like my Amiga, but much much faster! I can use my apps, and so on...So
they will go and buy one, whilst the others are still waiting.. and don`t forget
even if the Aone is deliverd at the same time, you have to use Linux and not Amiga OS...
Letting the World Know : Comment 30 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 20-Nov-2002 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (m0ns00n):
> Big companies are turning over their developments to .Net, and
> locking out, on a broad scale, people who use either Apples,
> Unixes or Amigas too. It is a disaster, but is there anything
> you can do?
The .NET CLR has been made an ANSI standard... that and the fact that there is also source available for it, and also a completely seperate opensource project that implements it (Mono), I think that .NET may actually improve the likelyhood of software appearing on systems like the Amiga.
Letting the World Know : Comment 31 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Bladerunner on 20-Nov-2002 09:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (samface):
hmmm.. what my *place favorite 3D shooter here* will not run on the new Amiga?
And *place favorite Application here* is also not available ?
Now Memory Protection?
Ah, but i guess very good Internet apps.. What?? even no Java? Hmmm.. ok, i better
stuck on Windows/linux/Mac
and run UAE, this would be the better solution.
Neither AI Nor Thendic can start without a loyal base.. But AI is loosig their base
from day to day, while the Thendic base grew up day by day. so to anoy German Amiga fans is
a very bad Idea.. last year no AI this year no AI, no Eyetech, no Hyperion..
but Thendic everywhere...
Letting the World Know : Comment 32 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 20-Nov-2002 10:08 GMT
Is bplan going to be at Cebit?
IIRC, they mentioned the G5 cpu card release due in Cebit2003 .... (yes there was that smiley in the bplan review....)
Letting the World Know : Comment 33 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 20-Nov-2002 10:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (priest):
See you at Cebit then ;)
Letting the World Know : Comment 34 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by amorel on 20-Nov-2002 10:11 GMT
It seems the clueless zealots totally missed the point here.
It`s VERY unlikely the name inc will be present on Cebit, whatever they may say.
But lets be so dumb as to believe them, they will NOT release OS4 there or before,
they merely LAUNCH it. Whatever that means. If it this monsterous pathetic example
of an OS ever gets released(unlikely) its late 2005 if not later.
The fact they don`t come to Aachen shows 2 things clearly, they have nothing to
show/say and they can`t afford it. But it will make the show all the better. No
empty bullshitting and anouncing anouncements, great.
Anyways, what`s up with the new headquarters ;-)
But there ain`t no sense in talking where there ain`t none. Or whatever.
Letting the World Know : Comment 35 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Bladerunner on 20-Nov-2002 10:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (priest):
I don`t know whether they are on the Cebit too, but they where definitely at some non amiga fairs, especially
in france. But more important, they where present on nearly every Amiga fair..When was AI seen last time in Germany?
2000? When this developer kit was introduced?
Letting the World Know : Comment 36 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Sjoerd on 20-Nov-2002 10:12 GMT
#31
So we must al go for the Pegasos;-)
In my opinion AmigaInc/Eytech are very afraid for the peggy. They just cant deliver a product. And for those who want a review, wait and see next month.
Letting the World Know : Comment 37 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 20-Nov-2002 10:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (m0ns00n):
"Have to ask though. Do you, Hermans, Redhouse, McEven, Fleecy, have the power to compete, now that
Microsoft has stepped even further in assimilating the computing market? With their new "buzz": "Digital
decade vision: From personal computer to personal computing" - dot Net, they are going to infiltrate even
more markets. Big companies are turning over their developments to .Net, and locking out, on a broad
scale, people who use either Apples, Unixes or Amigas too. It is a disaster, but is there anything you can
do? "
The Mono project does offer some hope here, I think.
Letting the World Know : Comment 38 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 20-Nov-2002 10:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (amorel):
"It seems the clueless zealots totally missed the point here."
Please do name them and justify why you insult them so...
"It`s VERY unlikely the name inc will be present on Cebit"
Ah. I see. "The Name Inc.". Flip the record, play another tune amorel.
<snip rest>
Can't be bothered to read more of your post.
Letting the World Know : Comment 39 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 20-Nov-2002 10:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Bladerunner):
"The Aachen show is the only Amiga Show this year in Germany and you can
count on it, there will be maaany maaany Users.. What will they think if noone of the Officials is here,
but Eyetech with an Armada of Pegasos Boards.. Yeah, that is well done AI, Eyetech and Hyperion, I bet
after this Show, there
will be many Users carrying their Pegasos away. "
The AmigaOne cannot compete with Pegasos until the OS is ready to
demonstrate. The Pegasos project started earlier and is ready to buy
sooner.
Demonstrating just the BIOS booting is not impressive. I think holding
back is a sensible decision. It really doesn't matter if some people
buy Pegasoses - the important thing is that they are _not_ buying
Windows boxes.
Letting the World Know : Comment 40 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 20-Nov-2002 10:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Bladerunner):
>MOS looks and feels like Amiga OS!
>So my guess is, many undecided User visit the fair have a look at MOS and think, >hey that looks like my Amiga, but much much faster! I can use my apps, and so >on...So they will go and buy one, whilst the others are still waiting.. and don`t >forget even if the Aone is deliverd at the same time, you have to use Linux and not >AmigaOS...
Yup, i think most users in the remaining community know about mos and how its working, though the latest shows where pegasos where present, mos where good at
crashing etc...not good PR for mos, and that will put alot of users on hold,
as thats *not* the feeling of amiga...
I think also remaining users can imagine that apps will be much much faster(G4 cpu) on a1 and os4 too.....this shouldnt be even necessary to mention, as its plain logic when you have a G4 that apps runs faster...
If you want some serious use with pegasos, you should use linux on pegasos too,
with the amount of bugs that can be lurking under mos at its current state, as its still beta..
Letting the World Know : Comment 41 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 20-Nov-2002 10:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (amorel):
>The fact they don`t come to Aachen shows 2 things clearly,
yes, it a show for retro computing....amiga dont belong there ? :)
Letting the World Know : Comment 42 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Bladerunner on 20-Nov-2002 10:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Don Cox):
I would agree , but the current amiga license don`t offer AOS for the Peggy.
Not that I care about this, IMHO MOS is a very good OS, but every Peggy User is a
lost Amiga User....
Letting the World Know : Comment 43 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 20-Nov-2002 10:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Elwood):
Salut Elwood :)
Availibility of MorphOS for the Pegasos: TODAY ;)
Bye
Letting the World Know : Comment 44 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 20-Nov-2002 10:29 GMT
www.cebit.de : "You will find the preliminary list of exhibitors for CeBIT 2003 here as of mid-December 2002." so, no worth checking yet.
Letting the World Know : Comment 45 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 20-Nov-2002 10:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (catohagen):
The show is called Amiga *and* Retro Computing, while retro means that there
are also some Atari companies and individual computers plans to sell the
CommodoreOne there. (BTW: Some weeks ago there was a report about Amiga at 3sat/neues TV show, also called "Retro Computing")
But then people said Thendic doesn't care about Amiga users...
Letting the World Know : Comment 46 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by Robert on 20-Nov-2002 10:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Frodon):
> Availibility of MorphOS for the Pegasos: TODAY ;)
Where?
(Or did the ";)" mean "of course there's no stable version of MOS yet" ?)
Letting the World Know : Comment 47 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by alan buxey on 20-Nov-2002 10:48 GMT
..badly worded phrase.
OS4.0 will be launched prior to the show.... he meant to say
"dont take march as being when os4.0 will be ready, it will
be ready before then. it will just be fully, publically
launchec on that date"
alan
Letting the World Know : Comment 48 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 20-Nov-2002 10:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Robert):
Well ... perhaps those dates are just jokes.
Upcoming Products (not binding) Date Expected
Subway - USB Controller 11/20/2002
Pegasos Mainboard 11/20/2002
2 x Pegasos Mainboard 11/20/2002
X-Surf2 11/28/2002
Catweasel MK3 PCI/Flipper 11/28/2002
A1 G3-SE (G3 750CXe@600MHz) 11/29/2002
Amiga One PPC System 11/29/2002
Delfina "Flipper Edition" 12/03/2002
Amiga OS 4.0 for Cyberstorm PPC 12/07/2002
Amiga OS 4.0 for Blizzard PPC 12/07/2002
fxPaint 2.0 12/09/2002
fxPaint Update 2.0 12/09/2002
A1 G4-XE (G4 7451@800MHz) 12/16/2002
Amiga 1200 12/31/2002
Amiga 1200 incl. 340MB Harddisk 12/31/2002
Amiga 1200 incl. 720MB Harddisk 12/31/2002
Amiga 1200 incl. 10GB Harddisk 12/31/2002
A1 G3-XE (G3 750FX@700MHz) 01/01/2003
Letting the World Know : Comment 49 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 20-Nov-2002 10:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (David Scheibler):
did you miss the smiley ?
Letting the World Know : Comment 50 of 216ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 20-Nov-2002 10:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (David Scheibler):
>But then people said Thendic doesn't care about Amiga users...
ofcourse they care :) Ben Hermans even had his name sponsored with a link to thendic website... isnt that nice
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