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[News] First picture from Amiga Coldfire ProjectANN.lu
Posted on 29-Nov-2002 23:07 GMT by Duke31 comments
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The first picture from an Amiga Coldfire card for Amiga 4000 is now available. It's a fake according to Jens Schönfeld, but check out the link for yourself: Amiga Coldfire Project
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 1 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Oliver Hannaford-Day on 29-Nov-2002 23:05 GMT
Hi,
There are also more pictures at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigacoldfire
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 2 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 29-Nov-2002 23:51 GMT
Hmm Any idea if this Condfire actually is compatible enough on real programs?.. Or does one haveto recompile everythng (including OS) to get it working?
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 3 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by q on 30-Nov-2002 01:04 GMT
As Oliver day states on Coldfire mailing list, the picture of the most finished card is just a mockup created from real protypes.
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 4 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by RC on 30-Nov-2002 07:46 GMT
This is an image of a bare PCB. What exactly does this prove? Am I missing something. The CF is dated technology anyway..why is this even important anymore? 4 years ago, this might have meant something, but not anymore.
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 5 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 30-Nov-2002 08:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (RC):
>This is an image of a bare PCB.
Whoooopyyyy !! How could I miss that :=0
>What exactly does this prove?
That these guys have actually done something and are making (slow) progress ?
>Am I missing something.
Sure, but I won't tell you what *g*
>The CF is dated technology anyway.
Moto seems to see that different, and it's surely not as dated as your webpage.
But thaen name ONE Amiga-related product that is really uptodate (including those without the name).
>why is this even important anymore?
Who said it would be important ? It surely can be a lot a fun, but I've never seen a single news-
item here that was real important.
>4 years ago, this might have meant something, but not anymore.
4 years ago everyboday was dreaming about QNX-Amiga, and yelled "the 68k-OS is dead".
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 6 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 30-Nov-2002 08:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Kronos):
"4 years ago everyboday was dreaming about QNX-Amiga, and yelled "the
68k-OS is dead". "
The QNX Amiga came out last year from H&P.
These Coldfire cards could be useful to anyone who has an investment
in Zorro hardware, such as a VLab Motion card or PAR card. Even if you
buy an AmigaOne or have an Amithlon box, it could be useful to be able
to go on using an old Amiga beside it, especially as there is no video
software for PPC Amigas in sight.
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 7 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 30-Nov-2002 09:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Don Cox):
O.k. Don you caught me there, and I'm also not sure if it was still QNX 4 years ago,
or if it was allready Linux that GateWay were talking about.
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 8 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by sutro on 30-Nov-2002 10:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Kronos):
>4 years ago, this might have meant something, but not anymore.
make it 8.
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 9 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Oliver Hannaford-Day on 30-Nov-2002 10:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (RC):
Hi,
> This is an image of a bare PCB. What exactly does this prove?
That development is still going on, I have to say I havent posted a news item on this, just replyed to others but this is a big step towards getting a working prototype.
> Am I missing something. The CF is dated technology anyway..
> why is this even important anymore?
Dated how? Mototola have recently announced the new V5 Coldfire, the V4 and V4e are the fastest available now.
There is nothing dated about the Coldfire.
>4 years ago, this might have meant something, but not anymore.
It would have been great 4 years ago but the V4 wasnt available and the projects using the slower V3 Coldfire failed because they had to graft two V3`s onto the board, rewrite the OS and more to get them to work, Now the V4 is very fast and easy to install.
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 10 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 30-Nov-2002 11:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Kronos):
"O.k. Don you caught me there, and I'm also not sure if it was still QNX 4 years ago,
or if it was allready Linux that GateWay were talking about."
The Linux Amiga came out last year from H&P too. ;-)
(And done much better than Gateway would have done it.)
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 11 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 30-Nov-2002 12:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Oliver Hannaford-Day):
Good luck with the project. I certainly wouldn't mind a cheap ColdFire card that could take standard memory modules for my A1200 or A3000.
Why do people have to slag off every project they're not PERSONALLY interested in? AROS, classic PCI solutions, Amithlon, AmigaOne, Subway, etc and now this all get attacked daily by poeple who don't want the item, and intend to discredit it to any poor sucker who will listen. Give these poor guys a break - everyone needs hobby, and if they can get it to work and actually sell these things then good luck to them.
Let's try and be a little more positive in the run-up to the Christmas season (and that's coming from an Athesist!!!). :)
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 12 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Oliver Hannaford-Day on 30-Nov-2002 12:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Darrin):
Hi,
>Why do people have to slag off every project they're not PERSONALLY interested
>in?
>Give these poor guys a break - everyone needs hobby, and if they can get it to
>work and actually sell these things then good luck to them.
>Let's try and be a little more positive in the run-up to the Christmas season
>(and that's coming from an Athesist!!!). :)
Who are you and what are you doing on ann.lu? hehe
this is the place where everything gets slagged off, I am shocked that after five news items here this is the first one to get slagged off ;)
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 13 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb //AAT on 30-Nov-2002 13:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Oliver Hannaford-Day):
go on! your coldfire card looks nice :)
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 14 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Johan "Graak" Forsberg on 30-Nov-2002 14:23 GMT
Will there be an A1200 version? =)
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 15 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 30-Nov-2002 14:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Kronos):
@Kronos
Wow I agree with you 100%, amazing:-)
Why are you AWOL from A-Org Kronos? We miss you over there!
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 16 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 30-Nov-2002 14:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Johan "Graak" Forsberg):
Makig HW is realitvely easy.. Say.. with 100Mbit ethernet, 512KB Local fast flash, SDram support, etc.. Not a biggie at all :) ... But getting Amiga softwares to work on it requires a LOT work. Coldfire ain't even closely 100% compatible and it makes a lot extra work.
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 17 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Oliver Hannaford-Day on 30-Nov-2002 14:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (JoannaK):
Hi,
> But getting Amiga softwares to work on it requires a LOT work.
> Coldfire ain't even closely 100% compatible and it makes a lot extra work.
Well Motorola have software which they say lets the Coldfire run a 68K OS, Now testing will take place when the prototype works and I can not say how well it will work but Motorola are confident.
>Will there be an A1200 version? =)
There will be a version for every Amiga there is a market for including the A1200.
>go on! your coldfire card looks nice :)
Thanks
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 18 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Neil Thomas on 30-Nov-2002 16:37 GMT
Joanna Kurri, the God of hardware engineering.
To say designing hardware is easy really degrades the usefulness of such engineers. Why not just have a catalogue of schematics and to design a board, all a software engineer needs to do is mix and match some different schematics and send them off to a CAD engineer.
Yes, that'll work wonderfully. And when the hardware doesn't work - who'll get it working.....
Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 19 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Arild Kvam on 30-Nov-2002 22:55 GMT
Will there be a portable Coldfire-based Amiga?
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 20 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by strobe on 01-Dec-2002 04:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Arild Kvam):
It's an upgrade, not an entire Amiga
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 21 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 01-Dec-2002 09:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Neil Thomas):
" Joanna Kurri, the God of hardware engineering."
Hmm.. First of all, if that ever happened it would be Godess ... And secondly you got my last name wrong :)
> To say designing hardware is easy really degrades the usefulness of
> such engineers. Why not just have a catalogue of schematics and to
> design a board, all a software engineer needs to do is mix and match
> some different schematics and send them off to a CAD engineer.
Apparently I forgot the world _Relatively_ from my earlier message.
I'm not saing it's easy as such. Making any board that size and density takes a lot's of work, like getting to know your PCB cad, learning about PCB making process, reading thousands pages of datasheets, making all components into libraries, designing schematics, doing boards layout, routing, finding some company to make those PCB's, aquiring all components, gettimg them soldered to board etc.. It's a lot work overall, due painfull experience I know.
BUT .. what I'm saying s that IMHO (as a HW person with some deep experience of Amiga coding and internals) making AmigaOS to work on that CPU-card will take a lot more work than making this board. There are so many details on OS design that depend on this particular CPU.. Like interrupt handling, tash switches, semaphores... I know there is some kind of emulation library available from motorola for easing this trasition, but I don't belive it'll be able to solve these OS-specific issues.
> Yes, that'll work wonderfully. And when the hardware doesn't work
> - who'll get it working.....
Well.. this is THE reason I trust Pegasos more than AmigaOne.. Pegasos is designed by people who have long track record of getting things done (since Phase5 days). Of course I have heard about issues (mostly with DCE) but at least they do have design/debug experience IN house. Unlike Eyetech, who are selling minimally altered Reference design.. and even those alterations were made by some anonymous third party.
And I do respect greatly people who get things like these done. Like this Jens (at individual computers) and his new Catweasel mk3... It looks real great and I'm intending to purchase one of those as soon as it's available on this country (expecting before X-mas).
But.. I have neither Pegasos not AmigaOne... I'm still waiting final OS:es to appear. Havign HW alone ain't no turn-on to me... I'm havign enough PPC_based boards lying around here allready. Around 10 on this desk alone.. of 3 different designs, having QNX or our in-house made RTOS, could run Linux too but I'm not interested on porting it.
Joanna
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 22 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Dec-2002 10:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (JoannaK):
"Unlike Eyetech, who are selling minimally altered Reference design.. and even those alterations were made by some anonymous third party. "
You're right in that Eyetech has absolutely nothing to do with hardware design or production as far as the Teron/"A1" is concerned, but I wouldn't call Mai Logic "anonymous".
OK, they might be anonymous to Amiga users compared to the old phase5 wizards and the little miracles they have designed over the years. Also, unlike the phase5 engineers, Mai's main business isn't end consumer products but chip cores. It's sorta embarrassing that this licencing charade, pretending that there are "Amigas", will be proclaiming that a developer board for one of those chip cores is "a new Amiga"...
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 23 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Neil Thomas on 01-Dec-2002 14:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (JoannaK):
> Hmm.. First of all, if that ever happened it would be Godess ... And
> secondly you got my last name wrong :)
If you are going to be fanatical enough to correct me on such a point, then I'd suggest you should be just as particular in spelling 'Goddess' correctly. I have no interest in spelling your surname correctly, only to the extent that you know I'm writing to you, not any other JoannaK that may lurk on ANN.
An Electronic Engineer in anything but the smallest company has no interest in transfering component data sheets to CAD libraries, routing, sourcing PCB manufacturer, aquiring components or building the board. He/she has enough to do. You'll find CAD engineers, purchasing, protoype engineers and production are all willing to do the other things. That's what they're paid to do, after all.
> BUT .. what I'm saying s that IMHO (as a HW person with some deep experience > of Amiga coding and internals) making AmigaOS to work on that CPU-card will > take a lot more work than making this board.
Of course, getting the hardware to work correctly in the first instance is not the job of a software engineer. The cost of tools that make modern hardware analysis possible is quite phenominal. PCI Bus exercisers, protocol testers and error generators; Logic analysers fast enough to track 133Mhz PCI busses, and faster. (DDR memory of L2 Cache for example). Then there is the added complication of packeted busses, such as USB1.1 or 2 (upto 480Mbps) Ethernet (unto 1Gbps) and Firewire. A product speced as having Firewire (for example) cannot be shipped untill the Firewire on that board has been proven to work, even if every other feature works.
Only at this stage it can be passed to software engineers, who undoubtably have a lot of work ahead of them.
It is perfectly reasonable for Eyetech to buy the rights to use a reference design and find a third party to manufacture it. Since Mai are a fab-less chipset manufacturer, it a safe bet a set of reference schematics are available on request. On a further note, for those considering using a Mai device in their own design, they will use those reference schematics to well, refer to. It is in Mai's best interest to ensure those schematics are correct and would form the basis for a fully functional board.
Again, it makes perfect sense for Eyetech to sub-contract the design of a PCB to a third party. This way, not only do Eyetech still have finaly control of the PCB, but the CAD engineers from the contractor, have an awful lot more experience with the likes of fast Serial protocol traking (USB, Firewire) than DCE is likely to have.
Finally, the design of the Pegasos, while feature laden, has a higher risk or having problems. While it may use the very same reference schematic from Mai, the PCB is designed in house, by a company that has proven itself to manufacture, lets say, less than reliable hardware. Are you aware of any Firewire designs the DCE have dsigned?
Additionally, why have the DCE engineers chosed to place the Northbridge at 45 degress to everyother component on the board? There is not technical advantage to this, and it certainly adds cost to the production. (Pick and place machine must place to 45 degrees, this adds to cost of setup and time of production). It's a frivalous design choice that shows immaturity on bplan's behalf. A design driven by marketing, not engineering is a Bad Thing.
Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 24 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by RC on 01-Dec-2002 14:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Don Cox):
The prolem here is, the CF 5407 series chips are terrible at any math operations. If you wanted to use this with a Toaster system, for example, you'd be much much better off with an 060. MPEG playack on KAOS on a CF 5407 slowed the OS to a halt, and that had nothing to do with KAOS..
If Motorola has greatly inmproved this, then yes, it would make an ideal solution for some users. I have sincere doubts about Mot doing anything to extend the math capabilities, though I will admit I could be wrong. My information is about 9 to 10 months dated now. I let the CF idea die a decent death after we reseqrched it for some of our product designs (STB and POSS).
@kronos At least our website doesn't look like the Amiga.com developer sites, thankfully. Bleah.
If this product is real, then great. But I won''t bet cash money on it. The PCB (bare) isn't a useful image. Anyone can design a PCB, even my cats given the time and tools. The image that is supposed ot be a working prototype is missing lots of essential components, whihc is easily visable buy looking at the PCB.
The rally tricky part is: Even a PCB with all the componeents that should be there may do absolutely nothing. I have a couple Met@box AmiJoe cards in my office. They are complete. They do absolutely bupkis! Interesting novelties..nothing more.
What are the stats on the people developing this? Does anyone know specifics on these guys at all?
Sorry, but even I have to question something like this..I am not discrediting the designers if the product is real, I am just saying that I wouldn;t bet on it working in real life, at least anytime soon, based on the imagery provided.
@CF lovers: Please note, I do not dislike the CF series. I think that, especially for scientific devices they are a great choice. But unless they have the FPU core that they would need for video opertions, they do not currently make a good choice as a CPU for Amiga systems. When I get a chance, I will review the latest CF specsheets from Mot. Perhaps I am behind the times.
Cheers //R//
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 25 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 01-Dec-2002 15:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Neil Thomas):
"Finally, the design of the Pegasos, while feature laden, has a higher risk or having problems. While it may
use the very same reference schematic from Mai, the PCB is designed in house, by a company that has
proven itself to manufacture, lets say, less than reliable hardware. Are you aware of any Firewire designs
the DCE have dsigned? "
On the contrary, my experience of acelerator cards from Phase5 has
been that they are well designed and highly reliable. The 2040/2060 is
particularly good. I would expect a motherboard designed by Gerald
Carda to work well.
DCE have nothing to do with the design AFAIK. They seem to be
providing a home for equipment that formerly belonged to Phase5.
The Phase5 software was not so good, IMO.
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 26 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Oliver Hannaford-Day on 01-Dec-2002 16:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (RC):
Hi,
> The prolem here is, the CF 5407 series chips are terrible at any math
> operations. If you wanted to use this with a Toaster system, for example,
> you'd be much much better off with an 060.
Two small points, It depends on the 060, There are 060 Amiga CPU upgrades without an FPU, Second the V4e has a full FPU and MMU and although I am not sure if I will be able to use the V4e the 220Mhz V4 without an FPU runs at three times the speed of the fastest 060 so I am sure it would still run faster.
> MPEG playack on KAOS on a CF 5407 slowed the OS to a halt,
> and that had nothing to do with KAOS..
Hu? A V2 running at 66Mips can decode Mpeg audio, I am going to guess your talking about Mpeg video in which case the 060 isnt great either but actuall tests like that will have to wait until this board is working.
> If Motorola has greatly inmproved this, then yes, it would make an ideal
> solution for some users.
Well the V4e is a better chip, the V5 is around the corner as well as the V5e.
> I have sincere doubts about Mot doing anything to extend the math
> capabilities, though I will admit I could be wrong.
Yep, sorry but a full FPU and MMU are options now although you cant actually go and buy an off the shelf chip with them built in.
> My information is about 9 to 10 months dated now. I let the CF idea die a
> decent death after we reseqrched it for some of our product designs (STB and
> POSS).
Well now there is a 220Mhz V4 clocking over 300Mips, A V4e clocking upto 333Mhz and the anouncement of the V5.
> If this product is real, then great.
Thanks ;-)
> But I won''t bet cash money on it.
Neither would I and I am the developer, not until I get to actually test it anyway... which brings us back to the topic ;)
> The PCB (bare) isn't a useful image.
Would you like a CAD design? (joke)
The pictures are not ment to show the board`s design, just that the PCB has been printed.
> Anyone can design a PCB, even my cats given the time and tools.
oh, so many comebacks, so little that wouldnt get me in to trouble ;)
> The image that is supposed ot be a working prototype is missing lots of
> essential components, whihc is easily visable buy looking at the PCB.
hu? Working prototype!!!! Darn I lost a working prototype, All I have are PCB`s, I did a mockup but you are right, its missing components like the bridge logic, 1.8V regulator and a few other components.
No one said it was a working prototype, it should work when its all put together though....
> Even a PCB with all the componeents that should be there may do absolutely
> nothing.
true, or it could catch fire and melt the board into a sticky gunk.
> I have a couple Met@box AmiJoe cards in my office. They are complete. They do
> absolutely bupkis! Interesting novelties..nothing more.
So thats where they went, Mmmmmm AmiJoe... Have you tried getting them working?
You could make a killing! (plus it would be one cool card)
> What are the stats on the people developing this?
6ft 4, m, uk ;)
> Does anyone know specifics on these guys at all?
Guys? Guy, Just one, me, oh and someone who converted PAL code to VHDL for me..
Well I dont run a hardware company, This is the first CPU card I have done and I am really just doing it because it looks like great fun and my CDTV is still using a 68000 :-(
> Sorry, but even I have to question something like this..
even you? Actually just you but hey.
> I am not discrediting the designers if the product is real,
It is and good.
> I am just saying that I wouldn;t bet on it working in real life,
hehe, well if you saw the board and the code you may think different but you will just have to wait and see, I start assembling the card tommorow.
> at least anytime soon, based on the imagery provided.
Hu? There are lots of images, Please visit the AmigaColdfire newsgroup @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigacoldfire for all the pictures and in a couple of hours an update at www.cdtv.org.uk/coldfire/ will also show the pictures.
> @CF lovers: Please note, I do not dislike the CF series. I think that,
> especially for scientific devices they are a great choice. But unless they
> have the FPU core that they would need for video opertions, they do not
> currently make a good choice as a CPU for Amiga systems.
Please note that not everyone has an Amiga with an FPU, 68000, 68020, 68030 and even a good selection of 68040`s have no FPU and they run on the Amiga just fine, Yes it would be nice if it had an FPU and it may but it wont be the end of the world if it doesnt.
> When I get a chance, I will review the latest CF specsheets from Mot.
> Perhaps I am behind the times.
Have a read of the specs in the V4e user manual, its very nice reading.
As for the V4 stuff, the docs havent changed.
Oliver Hannaford-Day
Project Manager
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 27 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Neil Thomas on 01-Dec-2002 18:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Don Cox):
Hi had in mind the BlizzardPPC range. Troubles with heat sinks and MTBF was pretty low.
Neil Thomas, AKA MiniBobF
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 28 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Arild Kvam on 01-Dec-2002 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (strobe):
I should have put that question a bit differently. I should have asked, -if
there is still any plans to make a Coldfire-based portable Amiga.
Some time ago there was a posting about this very subject here on ANN.
You obviously missed that one.
Arild
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 29 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Doobrey on 02-Dec-2002 00:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Arild Kvam):
This looks like one cool project (no pun intended !)
Don`t suppose this is related to the project Steady(Ian Stedman) was talking about on Amiga.org a week ago?
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 30 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by Oliver Hannaford-Day on 02-Dec-2002 11:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Doobrey):
Hi,
> Don`t suppose this is related to the project Steady(Ian Stedman)
> was talking about on Amiga.org a week ago?
I dont know, I didnt see that post I dont think although Ian Stedman has converted some code for me to VHDL (From PAL) so it would be a good guess.
> I should have asked, -if
> there is still any plans to make a Coldfire-based portable Amiga.
Well dont wait around for it but maybe, after the Coldfire upgrade is made, launched and if it sells well then a bog standard AGA Coldfire laptop could be made but dont hang around waiting for it... sorry
Oliver Hannaford-Day
Coldfire Project Manager
First picture from Amiga Coldfire Project : Comment 31 of 31ANN.lu
Posted by RC on 03-Dec-2002 14:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Oliver Hannaford-Day):
Oliver-
No, I haveyet to bother with the V4e core documentation. Mot talked with us about it, but it's availability was still iffy at the time. I will download the spec sheets sometime shortly and give them a going over.
My major concern is that many of the people that really NEED this kind of upgrade are the people using their systems for video work, and therefore would need a fast FPU. This is why we did not persue the CF as an option for a video decoding machine (STB). We were going to do two versions of the MCC, one as a cutdown "TiVO" style device, one as a desktop computer. But when we finally ruled out CF as a processor choice, we killed the lower end version entirely.
Well, yes, I mean MPEG Video (ISO 13818).
As a further clarification, "Anyone can design a PCB, even my cats given the time and tools. ", never mentioned functionality. Yes, almost anyone can do a PCB layout..that doesn't mean something that would EVER function, just something that looks like it MIGHT.
In regards to the AmiJoe cards, I never did much with them. I was never given schematics, just cards to examine pending a possible buyout deal (of the AmiJoe, not M@B). We never really did very much about them. none of the prototypes sent to us were functional, and the developer really didn't want to help us to understand the design even if we were to purchase it, so we dropped the idea, pending deals with other companies.
If you are ever in the US, stop by and have a look.
I did have a look at the Yahoo group, but there was no image gallery, unless it was members only, in which case I would have missed it.
Sorry, somehow I must have misread something. That was mentioned by someone to supposed to be a working prototype card.
Anyway, congrats to you if you can get it going.
Cheers,
//RC//
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