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[News] AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair ReportANN.lu
Posted on 30-Mar-2003 08:48 GMT by Amoon (Edited on 2003-03-30 11:56:04 GMT by Christian Kemp)74 comments
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'The AmiGBG2003 fair was held in Gothenburg, Sweden on Saturday 29/3. Swedish Amiga user SlimJim has written an extensive report. Outside links removed and local copy added from SlimJim's comment. Read more below.
The AmiGBG2003 fair was held in Gothemburg, Sweden on Saturday,

Last year's AmiGBG was the first of its kind to be held in Sweden in a long time. This novelty attracted some 400 visitors last year. This year the attendance was a lot poorer - one of the organizers (the nice fellow known as Sharakmir on the 'net) estimated some 140 persons in attendance during the day. Personally I thought it felt like more, but clearly the crowded floor of last year was not repeated this time. Part of this might well be that the novelty of an Swedish Amiga fair has worn off; but the lack of availability of AOS4 had probably the biggest impact on people's willingness to travel from afar.

I just got back from the show, after spending some hours on the train home. I thought I'd share some of my impressions. First of all I want to make clear that I made no notes or recordings, but are reporting straight from memory. If I get some facts wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me. Also, I didn't visit all exhibitors to the same extent. So if I miss someone, it's not intentional. Just writing off the top of my head here.

First off - the enthusiasts, the user groups, the hobby developers, the people forming the backbone of the Amiga community.


ACG Gothenburg - they had this nifty Amiga nostalgia corner showing some classic demos. They also had a cool two-player setup - best described it as a board with two integrated joysticks with buttons, like the front of an arcade machine - where Rocketz deathmatches were played. They held a wide range of the classic Amiga models of old. Like the A1000 they were running Shadow of the Beast II on. Also they displayed an alluring range of original games (their packaging). Unfortunately they were not for sale (or they thought I looked too shady to buy them, I don't know... )

The norwegian Amiga magazine Amitopia (soon to be distributed in USA if I understood it correctly) held a corner selling magazines and playing Payback. Next to them were "Explosives, Brother!", an Amiga inspired music group that were present last year too. Walked by and someone happened to have a sid of "The Last Ninja" running. Ah, the memories...

Richard "Dawnbringer" Fhager released the latest version of his game "BabeAnoid" on the fair. Nice clean Arcanoid-with-a-lot-of-twists-game. Many people were trying it out under his watchful eye. The game is free and can be downloaded from his website: http://hem.fyristorg.com/dawnbringer .

Ole-Egil and Justin was there showing AOne:s running Debian Linux. Nothing much new there (except that Ole-Egils beard has grown out of bounds...), the news in this area came, as expected, from Alan Redhouse (see below)

The editor of Azine, Magnus Andersson, was there, selling mgazines and memberships to ACG. Azine is Swedens biggest Amiga magazine, and is run by ACG, Amiga Computer Group, that unfortunately didn't have as large a presence as large year (they do have quite some bit to travel, it should be mentioned).

There were several other user groups there, too many to mention and I didn't talk enough with them as to give any proper review of their activities. I leave that up to others. But they all contributed to the mood and experience of the fair. Notables were the Swedish Atari Club, some guys controlling a mechanical head with an Amiga 1200(?) and of course Amiga Rulez, the Swedish Amiga news site.

Now on to the commercial players and seminar holders in general.


I talked a bit with Jens Schönfeldt (spelling?) of Individual Computers about his new Delphina soundcard. A nice guy, very entusiastic about his product. Currently the Delphina is a Zorro-only board, but it will be expanded by the "Flipper" add-on (making it the Delphina-Flipper") which essentially creates a card having a PCI connector on one side and a Zorro connector on the other, making this soundcard viable for e.g AOne in the future. The Flipper will also add stuff like MIDI ports. The card is, according to Jens, outperforming e.g. the Soundblaster cards by far in sound quality due to using a very high quality codec chip.

AROS was present both with a exhibitor table and in the seminar schedule. One of their representatives (whose name I didn't catch, sorry) held a nice presentation of the increasingly useful AROS desktop. So far (he said), the Workbench itself has quite limited use (lacks a graphical file manager among other things - only a very rudimentary version is working as of yet), but most "under the bonnet" stuff were done. He displayed some cool effects not present in original AOS3, such as arbitrarily shaped windows (he had one shaped like the female cat logo of AROS) and having transparent areas of a window (he clicked in the empty arc under the cat's tail, and marked the window behind it). A clever use of layers indeed. Overall AROS seem to be progressing well, albeit slow. Only some 15 developers are actively working on the project for the moment. I know for one that Johan "Graak" Forsberg took a lot of pictures of this presentation (and probably of every seminar, he said he had taken 140+ pictures), so more of this will hopefully be forthcoming.

Genesi was in attendance with five Pegasos machines running MOS 1.2 (from what I gathered). The representatives were were friendly and handed out wads of T-shirts (with the "I have a gift for you" wrapped-in MOS package) to anyone even just looking in their direction. I sat down in front of one of them. First time I tried MOS actually. The desktops they use for the fair (and I suppose all fairs) are very nice. Looking very professional. The wireless mouse is perhaps not as clever to use for fair presentation - it's a little poor in reacting on the surface they had avaliable, and that affects the impression on screen. And the keyboard is absolutely horrible. But of course, those things are hardware cosmetics, unique to these showcase boxes, and have nothing to do with the system per se. But first impressions are important on shows such as this. Something to think about until the next fair perhaps.

I sat down with MOS. One of the first things that interests me when trying a new OS is configurability, so I opened up the prefs. There are plenty of good configuration utilities. You can have the windows go outside the window borders, you can have the menus pop-up under the mouse and have them behave in various ways.Apparently you can have keyboard shortcuts to plenty of actions, which is a must for me, and good to see. So far there are no prefs to change the looks of native gadgets directly (you have to create a style to do so). This will be remedied in the future, I was told. Overall the system is quick (but that bloody mouse is a drawback when judging this). Clicking is certainly responsive and windows start up quickly. Frogger ran some movies at good speed. Small things like getting a file manager when left-clicking on the background is also a nice touch. Unfortunately the system is still having stability issues. The system locked up two times for me during my half-hour testing run, and the mouse cursor slowed down to a crawl on several occations (and that wasn't a mouse problem). However these problems seem mostly located in certain modules (such as the integrated skinning feature that apparently was rather newly implemented from what they told me). I can imagine the slowing of the mouse being some sort of debug stuff, but I don't know. Summa sumarum MOS looks and feels rather nice and have some fine touches and good attention to detail. But it is definately not complete yet for a wide ignorant audience. It still has a very real "beta" sense over it. In my most humble opinion of course.

Genesi held a seminar early on, but unfortunately I missed it. Someone else must fill in the details on that one.

Gunne Steen of GGS data sold stuff all day long. I picked up a copy of "Tales of Tamar". Doubt I'll have time to play it seriously any time soon though... In time for the show, a batch of new Pegasos boards arrived for GGS data. People were able to buy them right there on the show. I don't know how many, if any, he sold though. Gunne also held a small seminar showing Linux running on the Pegasos, and also some short displays of starting programs in MOS. I assume the bulk of MOS demonstration was made at the Genesi seminar I missed.

Alan Redhouse of Eyetech came empty handed to the fair. Everyone had hoped he would have a bunch of AmigaOneG4-XE:s with him, but that was not to be. It was planned up to the last minute. But the boards, arriving from the far east certification got stuck in Cologne. Far east certification you ask? Originally the plan was for the manufactured boards (manufactured by the plant somewhere in Asia) to be quality assured by Eyetech and delivered to customers at the rate of QA-completion. But the manufacturing plant and Eyetech both decided it was too expensive to ship eventual faulty boards back to Asia for fixing. So they hired a professional QA firm in Asia to do the extensive checkups directly. This means that the boards arriving in Europe will be complete for delivery, and the through-flow to customers will thus be quicker. As always a matter of economy. We would have had the boards today had the mail delivery been kind. Starting monday, GGS data should have them and will begin shipping them out to pre-order customers, if I understood it correctly. No info was given as to how many boards we are talking about in this first shipment.

Alan held quite an extensive speech on the AmigaOne platform and the future of mainstream Amiga applications in general. All of it was recorded by at least three cameras, so I hope clips will be made available eventually. He started off debunking some rumors that have been floating around. He stated very firmly that the AOne in general and the Articia in particular held no performance hampering bugs (referring to the latest revision that is now shipping). He also repeated the presently stated information about MAI being a fabless company and Eyetech:s role in bringing the boards into bigger quantity production. Alan and the president of MAI apparently have a very close business relation, being into contact several times a week. Alan also adressed the overall problems inherent in the AOne + AOS4 project. One being to get info from the big chip manufacturers. Particularily Motorola and VIA were very lack with handing out technical support to such a small player as the Amiga effort, lack to such an extent that lots of work and time was needed were it could have been avoided. Alan seemed very impressed with IBM though. They had been very helpful and supportive. He said that such good relations had been established to IBM that he was seeing some major collaboration with them in the future. Other problems he mentioned, we already know about, such as Hyperion being forced to take on external projects to fund development. He presented the already complete blueprints for a more public retail-friendly AOne. I'm not sure if this was the AOne-Lite or if I confuse the names (I think he also talked about another new board, but my memory is failing me here). It is very clear though that any future AOne models is completely dependant on the sales of the current model lineup.

It is clear that Eyetech and Hyperion is looking for ways to establish a wider market for their boards-and-OS combo. It is a harsh economical reality out there; Alan is, counting positively, expecting a sale of around 10000 AOne units, ranging up to 30000 if people from the sidelines start buying in en masse. To get economics of scale more has to be done. On the hardware side Eyetech will sell the board as linux servers (the low power consumption and accompanying low heat dissipation being the major selling point). But AOS4 is (reading between the lines here) already being done with it being a viable integrated OS in mind. A rock-steady, small footprint OS to run embedded devices might be just what the doctor ordered. But Alan asked us to not make too much fuss about it, so I won't. As always, there are many plans for the future, and only time will tell what comes to frutition.

Someone asked the inevitable question: "Give an estimate: How far away is AOS4?" And Alan pondered. He rubbed his moustache. He looked up into the sky as if calculating in his head. You could have heard a pin hit the floor as a room of Amigans held their collective breaths. Then he said: "Oh...I think they are some 1500 km away or so." Life in Amiga-world returns to normal. "When its done" is still the invariable answer, the one frustrating but fair constant in our little world of computer turmoil.


Overall, I was satisfied with travelling a total of six hours to and fro Gothenburg to attend AmiGBG2003. As always, I am extremely impressed with the people taking time out of their busy lifes to arrange an event such as this. Not to mention all the entusiasts coming from afar to set up tables to display what they create with, and enjoy about, the Amiga. It was also nice to be able to put a face to some of the people one normally only meet on the Internet. Thanks to all of you guys (especially all the people I forgot to mention), and hope to see everyone next year!

SlimJim

AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 1 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 30-Mar-2003 06:59 GMT
...or at Amiga.org.

http://amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1971
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 2 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 30-Mar-2003 07:02 GMT
... To avoid making this a thread about posting links as news, I post my show
report in full here - And I wrote it, so I cut and paste as much as I like.. :-ž
Enjoy.
.
SlimJim

------------------------------------------------------------------

The AmiGBG2003 fair was held in Gothemburg, Sweden on Saturday,

Last year's AmiGBG was the first of its kind to be held in Sweden in a long
time. This novelty attracted some 400 visitors last year. This year the
attendance was a lot poorer - one of the organizers (the nice fellow known as
Sharakmir on the 'net) estimated some 140 persons in attendance during the day.
Personally I thought it felt like more, but clearly the crowded floor of last
year was not repeated this time. Part of this might well be that the novelty of
an Swedish Amiga fair has worn off; but the lack of availability of AOS4 had
probably the biggest impact on people's willingness to travel from afar.


I just got back from the show, after spending some hours on the train home. I
thought I'd share some of my impressions. First of all I want to make clear that
I made no notes or recordings, but are reporting straight from memory. If I get
some facts wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me. Also, I didn't visit all
exhibitors to the same extent. So if I miss someone, it's not intentional. Just
writing off the top of my head here.

First off - the enthusiasts, the user groups, the hobby developers, the people
forming the backbone of the Amiga community.
----------------------------------------------------------

ACG Gothenburg - they had this nifty Amiga nostalgia corner showing some classic
demos. They also had a cool two-player setup - best described it as a board with
two integrated joysticks with buttons, like the front of an arcade machine -
where Rocketz deathmatches were played. They held a wide range of the classic
Amiga models of old. Like the A1000 they were running Shadow of the Beast II on.
Also they displayed an alluring range of original games (their packaging).
Unfortunately they were not for sale (or they thought I looked too shady to buy
them, I don't know... )

The norwegian Amiga magazine Amitopia (soon to be distributed in USA if I
understood it correctly) held a corner selling magazines and playing Payback.
Next to them were "Explosives, Brother!", an Amiga inspired music group that
were present last year too. Walked by and someone happened to have a sid of "The
Last Ninja" running. Ah, the memories...

Richard "Dawnbringer" Fhager released the latest version of his game "BabeAnoid"
on the fair. Nice clean Arcanoid-with-a-lot-of-twists-game. Many people were
trying it out under his watchful eye. The game is free and can be downloaded
from his website: http://hem.fyristorg.com/dawnbringer .

Ole-Egil and Justin was there showing AOne:s running Debian Linux. Nothing much
new there (except that Ole-Egils beard has grown out of bounds...), the news in
this area came, as expected, from Alan Redhouse (see below)

The editor of Azine, Magnus Andersson, was there, selling mgazines and
memberships to ACG. Azine is Swedens biggest Amiga magazine, and is run by ACG,
Amiga Computer Group, that unfortunately didn't have as large a presence as
large year (they do have quite some bit to travel, it should be mentioned).

There were several other user groups there, too many to mention and I didn't
talk enough with them as to give any proper review of their activities. I leave
that up to others. But they all contributed to the mood and experience of the
fair. Notables were the Swedish Atari Club, some guys controlling a mechanical
head with an Amiga 1200(?) and of course Amiga Rulez, the Swedish Amiga news
site.

Now on to the commercial players and seminar holders in general.
----------------------------------------------------------------

I talked a bit with Jens Schönfeldt (spelling?) of Individual Computers about
his new Delphina soundcard. A nice guy, very entusiastic about his product.
Currently the Delphina is a Zorro-only board, but it will be expanded by the
"Flipper" add-on (making it the Delphina-Flipper") which essentially creates a
card having a PCI connector on one side and a Zorro connector on the other,
making this soundcard viable for e.g AOne in the future. The Flipper will also
add stuff like MIDI ports. The card is, according to Jens, outperforming e.g.
the Soundblaster cards by far in sound quality due to using a very high quality
codec chip.

AROS was present both with a exhibitor table and in the seminar schedule. One of
their representatives (whose name I didn't catch, sorry) held a nice
presentation of the increasingly useful AROS desktop. So far (he said), the
Workbench itself has quite limited use (lacks a graphical file manager among
other things - only a very rudimentary version is working as of yet), but most
"under the bonnet" stuff were done. He displayed some cool effects not present
in original AOS3, such as arbitrarily shaped windows (he had one shaped like the
female cat logo of AROS) and having transparent areas of a window (he clicked in
the empty arc under the cat's tail, and marked the window behind it). A clever
use of layers indeed. Overall AROS seem to be progressing well, albeit slow.
Only some 15 developers are actively working on the project for the moment. I
know for one that Johan "Graak" Forsberg took a lot of pictures of this
presentation (and probably of every seminar, he said he had taken 140+
pictures), so more of this will hopefully be forthcoming.

Genesi was in attendance with five Pegasos machines running MOS 1.2 (from what I
gathered). The representatives were were friendly and handed out wads of
T-shirts (with the "I have a gift for you" wrapped-in MOS package) to anyone
even just looking in their direction. I sat down in front of one of them. First
time I tried MOS actually. The desktops they use for the fair (and I suppose all
fairs) are very nice. Looking very professional. The wireless mouse is perhaps
not as clever to use for fair presentation - it's a little poor in reacting on
the surface they had avaliable, and that affects the impression on screen. And
the keyboard is absolutely horrible. But of course, those things are hardware
cosmetics, unique to these showcase boxes, and have nothing to do with the
system per se. But first impressions are important on shows such as this.
Something to think about until the next fair perhaps.

I sat down with MOS. One of the first things that interests me when trying a new
OS is configurability, so I opened up the prefs. There are plenty of good
configuration utilities. You can have the windows go outside the window borders,
you can have the menus pop-up under the mouse and have them behave in various
ways.Apparently you can have keyboard shortcuts to plenty of actions, which is a
must for me, and good to see. So far there are no prefs to change the looks of
native gadgets directly (you have to create a style to do so). This will be
remedied in the future, I was told. Overall the system is quick (but that bloody
mouse is a drawback when judging this). Clicking is certainly responsive and
windows start up quickly. Frogger ran some movies at good speed. Small things
like getting a file manager when left-clicking on the background is also a nice
touch. Unfortunately the system is still having stability issues. The system
locked up two times for me during my half-hour testing run, and the mouse cursor
slowed down to a crawl on several occations (and that wasn't a mouse problem).
However these problems seem mostly located in certain modules (such as the
integrated skinning feature that apparently was rather newly implemented from
what they told me). I can imagine the slowing of the mouse being some sort of
debug stuff, but I don't know. Summa sumarum MOS looks and feels rather nice and
have some fine touches and good attention to detail. But it is definately not
complete yet for a wide ignorant audience. It still has a very real "beta" sense
over it. In my most humble opinion of course.

Genesi held a seminar early on, but unfortunately I missed it. Someone else must
fill in the details on that one.

Gunne Steen of GGS data sold stuff all day long. I picked up a copy of "Tales of
Tamar". Doubt I'll have time to play it seriously any time soon though... In
time for the show, a batch of new Pegasos boards arrived for GGS data. People
were able to buy them right there on the show. I don't know how many, if any, he
sold though. Gunne also held a small seminar showing Linux running on the
Pegasos, and also some short displays of starting programs in MOS. I assume the
bulk of MOS demonstration was made at the Genesi seminar I missed.

Alan Redhouse of Eyetech came empty handed to the fair. Everyone had hoped he
would have a bunch of AmigaOneG4-XE:s with him, but that was not to be. It was
planned up to the last minute. But the boards, arriving from the far east
certification got stuck in Cologne. Far east certification you ask? Originally
the plan was for the manufactured boards (manufactured by the plant somewhere in
Asia) to be quality assured by Eyetech and delivered to customers at the rate of
QA-completion. But the manufacturing plant and Eyetech both decided it was too
expensive to ship eventual faulty boards back to Asia for fixing. So they hired
a professional QA firm in Asia to do the extensive checkups directly. This means
that the boards arriving in Europe will be complete for delivery, and the
through-flow to customers will thus be quicker. As always a matter of economy.
We would have had the boards today had the mail delivery been kind. Starting
monday, GGS data should have them and will begin shipping them out to pre-order
customers, if I understood it correctly. No info was given as to how many boards
we are talking about in this first shipment.

Alan held quite an extensive speech on the AmigaOne platform and the future of
mainstream Amiga applications in general. All of it was recorded by at least
three cameras, so I hope clips will be made available eventually. He started off
debunking some rumors that have been floating around. He stated very firmly that
the AOne in general and the Articia in particular held no performance hampering
bugs (referring to the latest revision that is now shipping). He also repeated
the presently stated information about MAI being a fabless company and Eyetech:s
role in bringing the boards into bigger quantity production. Alan and the
president of MAI apparently have a very close business relation, being into
contact several times a week. Alan also adressed the overall problems inherent
in the AOne + AOS4 project. One being to get info from the big chip
manufacturers. Particularily Motorola and VIA were very lack with handing out
technical support to such a small player as the Amiga effort, lack to such an
extent that lots of work and time was needed were it could have been avoided.
Alan seemed very impressed with IBM though. They had been very helpful and
supportive. He said that such good relations had been established to IBM that he
was seeing some major collaboration with them in the future. Other problems he
mentioned, we already know about, such as Hyperion being forced to take on
external projects to fund development. He presented the already complete
blueprints for a more public retail-friendly AOne. I'm not sure if this was the
AOne-Lite or if I confuse the names (I think he also talked about another new
board, but my memory is failing me here). It is very clear though that any
future AOne models is completely dependant on the sales of the current model
lineup.

It is clear that Eyetech and Hyperion is looking for ways to establish a wider
market for their boards-and-OS combo. It is a harsh economical reality out
there; Alan is, counting positively, expecting a sale of around 10000 AOne
units, ranging up to 30000 if people from the sidelines start buying in en
masse. To get economics of scale more has to be done. On the hardware side
Eyetech will sell the board as linux servers (the low power consumption and
accompanying low heat dissipation being the major selling point). But AOS4 is
(reading between the lines here) already being done with it being a viable
integrated OS in mind. A rock-steady, small footprint OS to run embedded devices
might be just what the doctor ordered. But Alan asked us to not make too much
fuss about it, so I won't. As always, there are many plans for the future, and
only time will tell what comes to frutition.

Someone asked the inevitable question: "Give an estimate: How far away is AOS4?"
And Alan pondered. He rubbed his moustache. He looked up into the sky as if
calculating in his head. You could have heard a pin hit the floor as a room of
Amigans held their collective breaths. Then he said: "Oh...I think they are some
1500 km away or so." Life in Amiga-world returns to normal. "When its done" is
still the invariable answer, the one frustrating but fair constant in our little
world of computer turmoil.

-----------------------------------------------

Overall, I was satisfied with travelling a total of six hours to and fro
Gothenburg to attend AmiGBG2003. As always, I am extremely impressed with the
people taking time out of their busy lifes to arrange an event such as this. Not
to mention all the entusiasts coming from afar to set up tables to display what
they create with, and enjoy about, the Amiga. It was also nice to be able to put
a face to some of the people one normally only meet on the Internet. Thanks to
all of you guys (especially all the people I forgot to mention), and hope to see
everyone next year!
.
SlimJim
--------------------------------------------------------------
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 3 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 30-Mar-2003 07:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Bill Hoggett):
Or at ANN :-)

Very good work SlimJim... I had hoped to go but as the only computer I could get up there was a Pegasos I guess I will wait for the next show. Hopefully there will be an OS4 presentation when it's finished :-)

A shame you didn't get more information about the new models (Amigaone lite..?), anyone else who knows anything about that?
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 4 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Mar-2003 07:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (SlimJim):
10000 or even 30000 A1s ?

/me hopes Alan doesn't believe himself on this .....

Remember how hard it was for Escom to sell 100000-150000 real Amigas back when
the market was a 100 times bigger, the Amiga was cheaper as a PC, new SW was
released in masses, even some exclusive games, there was real marketing, there
was a real dealer-network, there were deals like the "Magic" or "Surfer" which
allowed the costumer to get a fully usable computer for little money ....
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 5 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 30-Mar-2003 07:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
10000 or even 30000 A1s ?

/me hopes Alan doesn't believe himself on this .....

"Counting positively" means this a (very) *optimistic* aproximation. Alan don't have any illusions as to the weak state of the market, i can tell you that.
.
SlimJim
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 6 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 30-Mar-2003 07:33 GMT
any screenshots of the aros demostration ? im really curious on the cat shaped window :) the aros website>>screenshots gallery should be updated.
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 7 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 30-Mar-2003 07:38 GMT
good to see a review of morphos from a non-morphos user...hearing on the mos-users, you get the impression that everything is 100% all the time...i guess
mos isnt as finished as some people wants it to be... good news..
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 8 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Nightwing on 30-Mar-2003 07:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (SlimJim):
Nice report Slim.

Its a shame that the attendance was so poor, but like you said that is to be expected without OS4 available. Hope the organisers didn't lose money.
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 9 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Timothy De Groote on 30-Mar-2003 07:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
AHem ?

The Escom A1200 was 50 pounds more expensive when i reached the market again. THe so called Surfer pack never really appeared and around 5000 were sold in the christmas period.

Escom went bancrupt because of PC market and overspending on UK shops, Amiga as usual was the innocent little child :)
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 10 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Mar-2003 08:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
Now /that/ was a clever announcement. I was expecting a new excuse to prevent people from cancelling on Monday, as several people had loudly declared that they would do so, and now probably they will choose to wait and see.

But the QA excuse is wonderful - now when they have awful DoA return rates or a serious data destroying bug is found you can imagine the response from Alan "We are very cross with the [unnamed] QA company, and suffice to say that we won't be doing business again".

And what did it cost? Probably an hour in the bath at some point thinking up excuses, but that will have generated maybe two or three good ones (I'm still waiting for the one where the parts are destroyed in transit and Alan "considers filing a lawsuit" or says the insurance will "barely cover our costs, we're very disappointed")

Please remember in you hearts not only those who've been waiting nearly six months for their "Early" bird (ah, that must be like the "White" rhino) but also those poor souls who ordered a year ago and didn't push and scream and stamp their feet but rather just waited quietly for a "special offer" to be delivered to them.
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 11 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 30-Mar-2003 08:46 GMT
Thank you for a very interesting report! Nice to see some good news
about the A1 too!

BTW, was any prototype of the CommodoreOne on display?
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 12 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 30-Mar-2003 08:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (catohagen):
He said one thing: That it crashed and that debug output was on (that's the only
way to slow down the mouse). Do you expect OS4 to be ROCK SOLID when it gets
released? It will take several updates. Yes, MorphOS does crash but on specific
occasions, not randomly. I can run it for a week (using the usual stuff, V3 etc.)
without crashing and like AmigaOS I can bring it down anytime I want. As long as
these OSes are based on the AmigaOS API, this will happen. Yes it can be improved
a bit, it actually has been improved a lot with MOS and will be improved with
OS4, stuff that crash AmigaOS usually just hit on MOS, but you certainly can't
get away without it.
As for the "Good news" part... Don't drop yourself to the troll level. That's
a trolling attempt.
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 13 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 30-Mar-2003 09:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (takemehomegrandma):
> BTW, was any prototype of the CommodoreOne on display?

Don't think so, but alas, I didn't think to look for it either.
.
SlimJim
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 14 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 30-Mar-2003 09:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>He said one thing: That it crashed and that debug output was on (that's the >only way to slow down the mouse)

yes...ofcource....why turn on debug output when you go to a show, to demostrate
how good it is ? :)
Anyway, i guess every os is stable and usable for a week, when not stressing the system..

>As long as these OSes are based on the AmigaOS API, this will happen

How will this work then, when Genesi wants to make a STB using morphos based on the AmigaOS api ?

>As for the "Good news" part... Don't drop yourself to the troll level. That's
>a trolling attempt.

im not allowed to have an opinion ?
To know that morphos is/feels like still in beta stage is good news to me
and you can stamp me as a troll all you want :)
I don't like vanilla icecream either, guess im a troll for that too...:)
I suggest you get used to that people dont like what you do, and if you are
going to continue naming people for that, you will be a busy bee in the future :)
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 15 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 30-Mar-2003 09:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
"He said one thing: That it crashed and that debug output was on (that's the only
way to slow down the mouse). Do you expect OS4 to be ROCK SOLID when it gets
released? It will take several updates. Yes, MorphOS does crash but on specific
occasions, not randomly."

All the same, if they hope to sell it for industrial uses such as set-top boxes, it will need to be rock solid. My impression is that it has improved a lot over the past few months.
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 16 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 30-Mar-2003 09:30 GMT
Errata #1:

Dephina is NOT Zorro as of yet. It attaches to the clock-port
of the A1200. The 'Flipper' add-on will add both Zorro and PCI
connectivity in one go.
.
SlimJim
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 17 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 30-Mar-2003 09:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (catohagen):
Hello,

">As long as these OSes are based on the AmigaOS API, this will happen

How will this work then, when Genesi wants to make a STB using morphos based on the AmigaOS api ?"

Well crashing a machine is not so difficult. I've crashed my Mobile phones more than one time already (Nokia and Motorola phones). I needed to "reboot" (understand: turn them down and then turn them on) to get them back.
I crashed also my cable decoder more than one time. No electronic device can claim to be crash proof even STB, TV decoders, Mobile phones and other embedded devices.

So of course MOS will have to be stable for the STB, but it can't be guaranteed to be 100% crash proof as no OS in this world are 100% crash proof. Lot of them are stable, but not perfect.
You know, we are not living on a perfect world, and humans are not perfect so humans creations aren't perfect too, it's logical :)

To use MOS everyday on my Pegasos, I can say that it has a very good stability, I don't have more crashed than with my previous Linux PC or my iBook with MacOS X 10.2.4. Even less in fact :) The difference is that both Linux and MacOS X have memory protection so when a program crash it's unlikely that it'll crash the system (but it happens sometimes anyway ;) ).

The MorphOS ABox, because it's goal is to be compatible with AmigaOS 3.x APIs and programs, can't use the MorphOS Quark kernel memory protection, even if there is this feature in the quark kernel. Of course however, the QBox will benefit of it. But hopefully MorphOS ABox is already very stable and I don't crash programs very often (of course like with my previous Amiga under AmigaOS, I also take care to not use buggy software on MorphOS as I know that there is no memory protection for programs running in the ABox, for compatibility reason).

Regards
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 18 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 30-Mar-2003 10:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Frodon):
yes..
We should stop now, this is getting OT...
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 19 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by mahen on 30-Mar-2003 10:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Frodon):
I guess the STB will be supplied with stable applications...
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 20 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 30-Mar-2003 10:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (mahen):
Hello,

"I guess the STB will be supplied with stable applications..."

I guess too :)

Regards
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 21 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 30-Mar-2003 10:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (catohagen):
yes...ofcource....why turn on debug output when you go to a show, to demostrate
how good it is ? :)
--

Debug output is almost always on. It was on on all the previews shows but the
Aachen one (while I think that it was on on some machines there).
I have debug output enabled on my machine as well. That's nothing wierd.
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 22 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 30-Mar-2003 10:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Don Cox):
Well, if you control what software you run on it it won't ever crash:)
I think that this kind of control is perfectly possible on an STB but I
don't know if they gonna do it.
Anyway, there are still some bugs to splat, like any OS out there. They
will be splatted.
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 23 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 30-Mar-2003 10:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (catohagen):
You made the off-topic post, don't run away now:)
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 24 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 30-Mar-2003 11:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (catohagen):
any screenshots of the aros demostration ? im really curious on the cat shaped window :) the aros website>>screenshots gallery should be updated.

Have a look at it now: http://aros.sourceforge.net/pictures/screenshots/

More specifically: http://aros.sourceforge.net/pictures/screenshots/20030330/kitty_demos.png
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 25 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 30-Mar-2003 11:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
no i didnt, i commented to the small mos review :)

Frodon is going OT about the everything crashes speech, and how its not
a perfect world and therefore its acceptable that mos crashes :)

Why have debug output enabled all the time ?
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 26 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 30-Mar-2003 11:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Fabio Alemagna):
Very nice :))) thanx Fabio
But i think i misunderstood Slimjim's writing :

"such as arbitrarily shaped windows (he had one shaped like the
female cat logo of AROS) and having transparent areas of a window (he clicked in the empty arc under the cat's tail, and marked the window behind it)"

Reading this I got the impression you could open a window with icons in it,
and the shape of the window was of the cat :)

This looks more like a picture you can move around, like you can with OS3.9 and
animgifs, but I might misunderstand again :)

The Aros demos are totally awesome...would be kewl to use as a screensaver
in fullscreen mode..
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 27 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 30-Mar-2003 11:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (catohagen):
> Very nice :))) thanx Fabio
> But i think i misunderstood Slimjim's writing :

> "such as arbitrarily shaped windows (he had one shaped like the
> female cat logo of AROS) and having transparent areas of a window (he clicked
> in the empty arc under the cat's tail, and marked the window behind it)"

> Reading this I got the impression you could open a window with icons in it,
> and the shape of the window was of the cat :)

Hum... that's perfectly possible, indeed, since any windows can have any shape you want it to. It's a feature of the layers.library.

> This looks more like a picture you can move around, like you can with OS3.9
> and animgifs, but I might misunderstand again :)

Yeah, well, you're misunderstanding :) That cat _is_ a window, which you can move around, and click trough it where it's transparent, it's not an icon. Also, you see, it's covering the demos' windows: icons cannot cover windows.
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 28 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Mar-2003 11:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (catohagen):
> i guess mos isnt as finished as some people wants it to be... good news

Who knows ? You apparently do not have the hardware to judge the facts and a single bug report from a fair visitor would be a nonsensical base for any judgement. That said, I'd be quite surprised if a PPC OS running m68k binaries would be rock-solid. The binaries on the original m68k platform leave a lot to be desired already: AmigaOS crashes happily and often if you dare to select software without strictly selecting what you install. How Morphos compares to that point of reference (AOS3), I don't know. How AOS4 will compare in terms of stability, if and when released, I don't know either. However, seeing the different amount of development that went into these two, Morphos is quite likely to be more stable for a year or two. One critical aspect of AOS4 is the amount of old code that finds its way into it, emulated or recompiled. Some think that's a good thing (proven code). I don't. My experience is that applications rewritten from the grounds up have significantly better code quality.
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 29 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 30-Mar-2003 11:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (catohagen):
Hello,

@catohagen:

"Frodon is going OT about the everything crashes speech, and how its not
a perfect world and therefore its acceptable that mos crashes :)"

Well first that's not what I said :) You misinterpreted :) Second I was answered to you when you said:

"how will this work then, when Genesi wants to make a STB using morphos based on the AmigaOS api ?"

which was an answer to:

" I can run it for a week (using the usual stuff, V3 etc.) without crashing and like AmigaOS I can bring it down anytime I want. As long as these OSes are based on the AmigaOS API, this will happen"

and my comment was perfectly on topic with your comment. As you spoke about STB & MOS stability issues.

Basicaly what I said is:

1) MorphOS itself is very stable as far as I could test it (so everyday :) )

2) Some applications on the contrary are not and have bugs. But this look like a MOS crash because there is no memory protection inside the MorphOS ABox for compatibility reason with AOS 3.x APIs & softwares. But in fact this is software crash.
But I assume that you know that most of not all the embedded OS out there haven't got memory protection also so it's not a problem for MOS. The only difference between a non memory protection OS and a memory protected OS is that in the first case the stability doesn't depend only on the OS stability, but also on the software satbility. As an AmigaOS user I'm sure you know that enough well :)

3) So if you use non buggy software you don't crash your computer

4) No OS in the world is 100% crash proof. Lot of them are very stable, this include Linux, MacOS X, AmigaOS and MorphOS, but none are 100% bug free and crash free.

To conclude: IMHO considering the points I just repeated, I don't see why MOS with the ABox would not be adapted for STB. IMO it is far enough stable for this application and it just need the specific software and I'm sure Genesi & Plexuscom will do the necessary developments to make the STB a full featured product.

Regards
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 30 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 30-Mar-2003 11:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (catohagen):
To see what crashed if a prog goes tits?
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 31 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by catohagem on 30-Mar-2003 11:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Anonymous):
>if a PPC OS running m68k binaries would be rock-solid. The binaries on the >original m68k platform leave a lot to be desired already:

Im sorry, but what m68k binaries ?

"Unfortunately the system is still having stability issues. "

"However these problems seem mostly located in certain modules (such as the
integrated skinning feature that apparently was rather newly implemented from
what they told me)"

So where are the m68k stuff ? the skinning ? or the certain modules ?
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 32 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 30-Mar-2003 11:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (catohagem):
btw, delete this comment...i dont reply to f*cking anonymous cowards... :))
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 33 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 30-Mar-2003 12:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (catohagem):
@catohagen and his "adversaries" alike

Please break this off now. Everyone just drop it. I didn't comment on my
impressions of MOS with any ill intentions againt the system or to give ammo to
either side's arguments.
This stuff is handled so much better in the real world.
Going to a fair such as this and seeing people behave politely and discuss their
concerns with each other makes wonders to restore the faith in the community
spirit.

Now please drop this pointless bickering about who went OT first and the blatant
attempts at starting up the old AOS vs MOS debate. Do you guys
really have nothing more interesting to comment on? Is your scope of Amiga
interest really so narrow?
.
SlimJim
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 34 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 30-Mar-2003 12:06 GMT
I forgot to mention that Final Writer 97 (Swedish version) was on sale at the
show. They got hold of an old batch apparently and was selling them of for
some 100SEK ($10). Swedish printed manual and all. Now that's value for money! Too
bad I bought it years ago (but thinking about it, I should perhaps bought a backup
to have just in case).
.
SlimJim
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 35 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 30-Mar-2003 12:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (SlimJim):
sorry slimjim and sorry to Alkis & Frodon too
i should have known better...peace..
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 36 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 30-Mar-2003 12:10 GMT
>Do you guys really have nothing more interesting to comment on?

Alkis ? Frodon ? Maybe we could find anything else to discuss from the show ? :)
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 37 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by catohagen on 30-Mar-2003 12:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Fabio Alemagna):
>Yeah, well, you're misunderstanding :) That cat _is_ a window, which you can >move around, and click trough it where it's transparent, it's not an icon. >Also, you see, it's covering the demos' windows: icons cannot cover windows.

Where can you place the close gadget, resize or the titlebar ?
Can this be used to make apps with buttons around everywhere and with
bitmap textures ? like a mp3 player, with play button is the nose of the cat,
and stop button is left ear and so on ? :)
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 38 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 30-Mar-2003 12:18 GMT
Pictures from the show is now online, courtesy of the avid photographer Johan
"Graak" Forsberg. 140 pictures of that hall and I'm not in one of them ;-)
Success!

http://amigbg.com/gallery/graak/
.
SlimJim
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 39 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 30-Mar-2003 12:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (catohagen):
@catohagen

> Where can you place the close gadget, resize or the titlebar ?
> Can this be used to make apps with buttons around everywhere and with
> bitmap textures ? like a mp3 player, with play button is the nose of the cat,
> and stop button is left ear and so on ? :)

He didn't comment on gadget placing, but it's an interesting question. He showed
that you could have windows-in-windows, that is a window limited in movement to
it's underlying parent. Could be interesting to have in the cat-window... ;-)
.
SlimJim
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 40 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Hooligan/DCS on 30-Mar-2003 13:23 GMT
To continue the crashing-debate. I have here at home a Mark dvd-player which I can crash in one minute.
I can make it get so locked by doing certain keypresses that you can't turn the power on anymore, expect turning it off and on from the mainswitch.
Also, the mpg playing with others than normal screensize causes double buffer problems and evidently a crash.
The MP3 playing routines are also broken and bugged. Some MP3's play all wrong and some doesn't play at all.
If this wasn't enough, the on screen translations are ridiculous. Thats what I call swedish high technology ;-)
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 41 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 30-Mar-2003 13:33 GMT
Some additions: There wasn't a Commodore One on display. According to
Jens Schönfeldt this was because the designer, Jeri Ellsworth, is
making good progress currently and didn't want to interrupt
development.

About the crashing MOS skin prefs, I can confirm this. Afaik, this
prefs module was released 2-3 days ago and doesn't work properly (you
need to close+reopen a screen before something happens), so I guess it
was a mistake to have it installed at the show. Btw I agree about the
keyboards - they were definitely more pretty than practical.

About MOS debug output/slowdown, at the moment it can't be turned off
completely. Well.. you have to ask the developers. :)
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 42 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Mar-2003 15:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Timothy De Groote):
>THe so called Surfer pack never really appeared

So I bought a phantom then?
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 43 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 30-Mar-2003 15:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (catohagen):
> Where can you place the close gadget, resize or the titlebar ?

Well, the titlebar is always on top, of course, so if the shape doesn't include it, the title bar is not shown. The kitty's window is a borderless window, without titlebar and without gadgets BUT one custom one which covers the whole window and that is used to drag the window around.

> Can this be used to make apps with buttons around everywhere and with
> bitmap textures ? like a mp3 player, with play button is the nose of the cat,
> and stop button is left ear and so on ? :)

Of course.
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 44 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Georg Steger on 30-Mar-2003 15:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (catohagen):
> Where can you place the close gadget, resize or the titlebar ?

Using standard openwindow features only in same places as in AOS.
Using custom system gadgets (ie. look/position provided by the
app), whereever you want, just like is possible in AOS (think about
ToolManager windows with its dragbar at left side).

> Can this be used to make apps with buttons around everywhere and with
> bitmap textures ? like a mp3 player, with play button is the nose of the cat,
> and stop button is left ear and so on ? :)

Yep.
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 45 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Mar-2003 15:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (catohagem):
>> if a PPC OS running m68k binaries would be rock-solid. The binaries on the original m68k platform leave a lot to be desired already:
>
>Im sorry, but what m68k binaries ?

Sorry, didn't think that through. Here's a corrected version: "I'd be quite surprised if a PPC OS running Amiga software would be rock-solid". Amiga software such as Amiga web browsers, MUI classes, InstallerNG etc. (in a native version or not).
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 46 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 30-Mar-2003 15:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Anonymous):
"I'd be quite surprised if a PPC OS running Amiga software would be rock-solid".

don't u mean "I'd be quite suprised if a ppc os running legacy m68k amiga software would be rock-solid.
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 47 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 30-Mar-2003 16:28 GMT
Just back from the show myself (and REALLY hungover from the whisky and the absinth I was cleverly "tricked" into by the organizers of the show *innocent whistle* :-)

Anyway, I think the show was good. No fights broke out between the Atari people and the A500 people, neither between the AmigaOne people and the Pegasos people. I must say I liked that shooting game all the pretty girls ended up playing on the Pegasoses(oseseso...?) and I must get Babeanoid for the new A1200 I bought from Gunne :-) (replacement for my old one which has been a bit odd the last year...)

I showed Debian with Opera 6.12 and mplayer 0.90rc5 running on the A1, but I managed to fuck up at least one thing as usual :-)
Someone asked me to show divx fullscreen and I did. But it started dropping frames for no apparent reason. 2 hours later I found the error. I had set the clock frequency to 400MHz (inverted all the dip switches 0111 -> 1000) while going from 100 to 133MHz memory clock (new memory bought from Gunne :-) ). Needless to say, I was a bit annoyed at my own stupidity when I saw that later in the day. Murphy again, I guess...

Other than that, it was very much fun, even if there was a bit few people visiting.

Next time we need AOS4, though.
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 48 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 30-Mar-2003 16:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Ole-Egil):
Next time with OS4 I will be there... Guess Justin was the only Dane there this time :)

Quite an empressive beard you have grown, wonder what that will look like when OS4 is out :-D=

Did anyone talk about the chance of an OS4 presentation in Gųteborg, like the A1 presentation?? I know we would be a few people from Denmark that would go there..
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 49 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Mar-2003 18:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (cheesegrate):
> don't u mean "I'd be quite suprised if a ppc os running legacy m68k amiga software would be rock-solid.

No, I was corrected in that regard. Let's face it, Amiga software isn't a beacon of stability. As ar as an "Amiga" PPC OS is concerned, it doesn't really matter if the Amiga software is emulated or native: It's the collision of underfunded developers (prodcucing crash-prone software) with a totally unprotected OS. If you have an unprotected OS, you need first class software to compensate for the built-in lack of stability. If you have such software, the total package can be quite nice: for example, a unified address space (no memory protection) is beneficial to performance. Regrettably, the software for AmigaOS, native variants for Morphos included, very often does not meet very high quality standards. Consequently, I'd be very surprised if Morphos or AOS4 would turn out to be rock-solid platforms.
AmigaWorld: SlimJim's Not-so-short AmiGBG Fair Report : Comment 50 of 74ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 30-Mar-2003 19:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (SlimJim):
Nice pictures (allthough some of them were quite blurry). Some of the PPT pictures were really interesting. I had never heard of the MicroATX A1 and the A1SE-Lite among other things, but I'll take that with a truckload of salt for now.
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