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[News] Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems!ANN.lu
Posted on 12-Jun-2003 18:58 GMT by Hooligan/DCS59 comments
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Today the final decisions came who are the ten ones getting a loaned Genesi-sponsored Pegasos. Today the final decisions came who are the ten ones getting a loaned Genesi-sponsored Pegasos. These groups will compete in a democompetion announced later with great prizes. The happy ones are .... Creative Minds, Dual Crew & Shining, Ephidrena, Floppy, Haujobb, Iris, Loonies, MFX, Potion and The Black Lotus
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 1 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by m0ns00n on 12-Jun-2003 17:17 GMT
This is great news for the winners. Let's hope they also get a good demo compo where they can present their demos. Perhaps more sceners will be interested in going Pegasos :) - other than this, do Morph support TV out or do they have to make mpeg's of the demos to show them? Bah, ofcourse they have a blah. I'll shut up now. :)
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 2 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 12-Jun-2003 18:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (m0ns00n):
Great work Mikko and Kiero!

Thanks!

We look forward to these Sceners joining the Pegasos Community!

:-)

R&B
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 3 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by André Siegel on 12-Jun-2003 18:04 GMT
I am really looking forward to see what these guys can come up with on a machine such as the Pegasos being several times faster than the fastest 68K Amiga.

I can hardly wait :)
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 4 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Lasse Bodilsen on 12-Jun-2003 18:42 GMT
Nice collection of Top scene groups.

But where's Mad Wizard? i would suspect them to produce equal quality.

ps. Held og lykke Loonies, You can do it :-)
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 5 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 12-Jun-2003 18:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Lasse Bodilsen):
I am sure they will compete, Kiero just happens to have a Pegasos already :)
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 6 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 12-Jun-2003 19:39 GMT
The best of luck to you guys ;)

Cheers
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 7 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by MIKE on 12-Jun-2003 19:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (bbrv):
Hrm, maybe you should donate them to some willing coders, I know a few former ones, who would *love* to port some *NIX stuff to a PPC type AmigaOS. Especially if it comes with an up-to-date complete GNU toolchain.
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 8 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 12-Jun-2003 20:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (MIKE):
Mike: those interested coders should get into contact with Greenboy (at Phoenix).. There have been discussions on hardware support for important projects... But I don't have enough info of this.. I just know it'll might be possible if there is a good cause.
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 9 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 12-Jun-2003 21:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (JoannaK):
What?!?! Someone actually remembered that Phoenix was even slightly involved? I am shocked, JoannaK ; }
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 10 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Lando^Trinity on 12-Jun-2003 21:33 GMT
Good luck to all the groups involved, I'm looking forward to gettin my hand on their productions.

Maybe we'll even see a TBL release running at >5fps for a change (just kidding guys... ;)
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 11 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 12-Jun-2003 21:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Lando^Trinity):
> Good luck to all the groups involved, I'm looking forward to gettin my hand
> on their productions.

Amen to that! :-)
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 12 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Lando^Trinity on 12-Jun-2003 21:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Lando^Trinity):
Oh and I also forgot to say...

Massive respect to Genesi for doing this, you have breathed a new lease of life into the Amiga scene and earned yourselves no small amount of respect among the sceners.
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 13 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Atheist2 on 12-Jun-2003 22:05 GMT
What would be cool is if they take some of their old demos, and enhance them, or start with a bit of it, and then go in a different direction. Showing what they would have done, had more CPU been available to them.

A1!
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 14 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-Jun-2003 23:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Atheist2):
Lots of these "killer" demos use 68k asm and AGA tricks to do the magic. Also the effects are carefully crafted to work fast enough on 68k+AGA, shaping the algorithms used.

You can't easily convert them to CGFX + AHI + PPC. You would probably end up rewriting the whole demo anyway.
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 15 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by psycho on 13-Jun-2003 05:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Atheist2):
That would in most cases be a completely different demo anyway. At the moment we can't/won't even decide on the design without knowing a bit about the (expected) level of 3D hardware support - and then compare that to the difference between a 600mhz G3 (with/out 3d hw) and a 50mhz 060...

@Lasse: selvfølgeligt kan vi det - hvor meget vi lægger i det afhænger nok lidt af ovenstående... :)
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 16 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Konstantinos Livadaros on 13-Jun-2003 05:50 GMT
WOW! Pegasos is entering the Demo Scene? These guyz rule!
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 17 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by krize on 13-Jun-2003 06:51 GMT
WoW !! Very impressive stuff, the future of pegasos looks very good at the moment .... looking forward for releases from ALL those groups ....
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 18 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by z5 on 13-Jun-2003 08:57 GMT
Wow! The cream of the amiga scene there :)

I really can only dream of what Potion or Ephidrena can do with a Pegasos.
Where can i buy a pegasos?

Will you guys make a demoscene site for Pegasos? Or do i make a Pegasos section in Amiga Demoscene Archive?

It would be cool to have a site with all releases, masses of screenshots,...
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 19 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 13-Jun-2003 09:47 GMT
Must say I really do _LOVE_ genesi, this is exactly how it should be done! =D, best company in the world? =D. The Amiga people really deserves
it I just hope you (B&R) will get rewarded for your hard and truely fantastic work for the plattform. Would love to come with you in this but i
need to get some money first :/
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 20 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by miksuh on 13-Jun-2003 11:29 GMT
I hope we will see lot's of demos in the Assembly'03 :)
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 21 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Eva on 13-Jun-2003 11:59 GMT
Eheheh I hope that also our italian bad and faggot guyz will make something special for the morphos demo combo ihihih
Thx to Genesi for the opportunity.
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 22 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Pegasos UK on 13-Jun-2003 12:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (z5):
Hello!

You better hurry up.

If you are really interested you can buy your Pegasos at Pegasos-UK

www.pegasos-uk.com

We have few motherboards left.

Regards.

Pegasos UK Team.
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 23 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by z5 on 13-Jun-2003 15:11 GMT
One sad note though to this news: i think you just wiped out the complete 68k Amiga scene. Was the time right? Too early or too late? Who knows.

And i for one am going to miss it a lot :(

I don't want any demos looking like pc demos.
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 24 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jun-2003 15:16 GMT
I was never thinking that the AMIGA Scene is buyable! :-(

Now you leave the Amiga Scene and the roots of the true
Amiga Spirit!

There can be only one AMIGA (OS)!

Dont forget your roots!
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 25 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 13-Jun-2003 15:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (z5):
no, the time was way to late ;) But hopefully they'll take up what has been missed =P
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 26 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jun-2003 16:00 GMT
BS. Genesi only does this cause they have more to gain. Hypocrits
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 27 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jun-2003 16:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Anonymous):
Your pathetic attacks are so transparent they don't need further commenting.

Get a f*cking life will you.
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 28 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jun-2003 16:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Anonymous):
He's got a point. This has nothing to do with the true Scene.
THIS IS ONLY PAYED PUBLICITY. You and your small group of paranoids get a life!
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 29 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by LorD on 13-Jun-2003 16:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Anonymous):
And you, Mr anonymous, are representing the "true scene" ???

See guys, this man is saying we cannot be real sceners :-p

Nobody can say what is a real scene, and you will not say for the
scene if this competition can't be approved by sceners or not.

Now let "false scene" finish this interesting competition that is a
first step to will bring the Pegasos into demo competitions.
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 30 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 13-Jun-2003 16:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Anonymous):
Next you will say sponsors kill football and sport. Are you nuts?
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 31 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jun-2003 16:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (LorD):
This is supposed to be a freespech site so no I'm not forcing what I say on anyone. But as for "true scene" or not, if you think this payed publicity is the same as the classic Amiga scnene that used to be you have a very distorted notion of reality.

Genesi is not supporting anyone but themselves, that's the mainpoint, and this news is, like most of them, distorted to make it seem like they really are supporting anything without any interest.
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 32 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 13-Jun-2003 16:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anonymous):
"Genesi is not supporting anyone but themselves, that's the mainpoint, and this news is, like most of them, distorted to make it seem like they really are supporting anything without any interest."

Don't know about the world you live in, but in mine computers are manufactured for profit. Marketing is attached to that, and good marketing increases the sales.

Commodore, Amiga Inc, Dell, IBM, Apple are/were all manufacturing hardware to gain profit, and had/have good/bad marketing. Genesi has GOOD marketing - if it is a problem in your eyes...
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 33 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jun-2003 16:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anonymous):
Wow, where have you been the last 50 years? Sad to have people like you among us.
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 34 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jun-2003 16:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Emeric SH):
Your analogy of football team sponsors is very good. Football sponsoring is far from a pure support activity, like the news title tries to pass don't you think so?!
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 35 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jun-2003 16:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Anonymous):
No, sad is too have people that are unable to accept different points of view on things, and that instead of discussing them in a constructive and possibly interesting way, resort to personal attacks, as if they were being attacked themselves. Grow up.
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 36 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 13-Jun-2003 17:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Anonymous):
If a sponsor provides the ball, shoes, shirts for the players is a BAD thing in your eyes as I understand?

There is no money involved here. Companies, for example Adidas are happy if their equipment is used, as it means publicity. What's your problem with that?
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 37 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 13-Jun-2003 17:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Anonymous):
"Grow up."

Sure, we will, Mr. Brave Anonymous
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 38 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jun-2003 17:06 GMT
@32

What is this for a good marketing to give away a board that is dead
because no one purchases it today?

The Amiga Scene is a AMIGA Scene because they want to be different from the
rest and the Amiga Scene has is own history/roots and grow up in many years!

It is easy to spend a system and say,please make demos for us to show
the world what the Pegasos can do (or not)!

Genesi knows how important the scene and they products was in the past for the
Amiga,remember the first Demos etc.!

Amiga people cant see in the future the Demos from they Amiga Groups,because
MorphOS is not the official AMIGAOS!
And that means another split in the small Amiga Scene!

Thats a fakt!

If the Amiga Scene says,we like the System and we want support it,it is ok but
it must came from the Scene not from a Company that wants to use the Scene
for marketing and hope so,to get some more buyers,because the Amiga fans love
they Amiga Scene and that is the point the Company knows!!

Or do you think Genesi a real Scene lovers?

They can do what they want - Genesi will never get the true respect from the Amiga
Users!
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 39 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 13-Jun-2003 17:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Anonymous):
"If the Amiga Scene says,we like the System and we want support it,it is ok but
it must came from the Scene not from a Company that wants to use the Scene
for marketing and hope so,to get some more buyers,because the Amiga fans love
they Amiga Scene and that is the point the Company knows!!

Or do you think Genesi a real Scene lovers?

They can do what they want - Genesi will never get the true respect from the Amiga
Users!"

You have clearly misunderstood something - it's not something _forced_ to the demo groups. Genesi just provided an opportunity for those willing to make demo for the Pegasos.

Anyway, you're so blind I can imagine you to protest when the A1200 appeared, that "It kills the A500 scene!"...

Have I mentioned that I love your kind, mr anonymous coward?
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 40 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 13-Jun-2003 17:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anonymous):
>Genesi is not supporting anyone but themselves

Wrong. When I talked to Bill Buck about Phoenix and Genesi supporting the DemoScene, I knew there was wild coding talent and creativity galore in the Demo Scene, a potential that had been dwindling due to rickety hardware and migration to non-inspiring OSes. BBRV already had some feelings about this, was well aware of the history of the scene and its importance, and had a real appreciation for it. He knows about this stuff and DIGS it!

That what this Initiative is doing also supports Genesi plans is just good business sense. Fortunately BBRV understands that enlightened self interest is that which helps others as well as oneself. So *most* of us are thrilled that a company in this community is able to put its money where its mouth is. Genesi takes a proactive view on building the community up with finance and puts real effort into helping quality events take place, gets people resources to go forward with, and knows the value of increasing the channels for meaningful communication.

This responsiveness and ability is why Phoenix will continue to work with Genesi, and will get involved with community efforts not typically considered development - that's a reference to our expanded definition of DEVELOPER. In reality, progressive efforts of this type have a lot to do with developing a platform, a market, and redeveloping a healthy community.

Nothing wrong with some FLOW where there was none; see TRON!
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 41 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 13-Jun-2003 17:27 GMT
I knew something like this would turn up. I will bring up a few points that hopefully will clarify this:

1) I was asked to handle this demoscene promotion for Pegasos. If you think I am not "true scener", or DCS is not a real scenegroup, come meet us at some of the NUMEROUS parties we visit every year. I am quite sure we can turn your head.
2) Bill Buck is a demoscene fan. He started this all.
3) "Genesi will buy Amiga demoscene".. pfft. What I have done is promoted the issue, and I asked, and got APPLICATIONS from people who wanted to be part of this. No-one was forced to do anything, no rules were set. This is just a democompetition, Genesi of course wants material to demo at events (like it has always been, Amiga has always been promoted by demoscene)
4) The anonymous people here should post with their real scene handles. If you're not in the scene, shut up. This doesnt concern you.
5) The groups mentioned above have been carefully selected, not only from Amiga scene, but from PC- and Linuxscene aswell.
6) For once in a democompetition, people are starting from the same startline.
7) As rumoured in irc, I HAVE NOT gotten paid for any of this. I paid for my Pegasos, just like everyone else. I did this for the love of demoscene.

Hooligan / DCS
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 42 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jun-2003 17:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Emeric SH):
"...Mr. Brave Anonymous".

Why providing some name (fictitious or not, most people dont know me here) should be better than my IP adress?
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 43 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jun-2003 17:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Emeric SH):
@39

You missunderstand something if you say
did we protest if the A 2000 cames!

The A500 and A2000 are AMIGA Computers and you can
use the same Software because it is a AMIGA!!

Can i see or use MorphOS Software on my AMIGA?
NO i cant so why did you compare differnt things?

I have nothing against Genesi,dont missunderstood me
but i dont like the way they try to take the manpower from the Amiga
Scene!

Without the Manpower from the Amiga Scene Genesi where nothing!
But what did they do for us - the Amiga Users?
Why dont they give a sign that they like AmigaOS too?
Why dont make Genesi it possible to use AmigaOS 4.0 on Pegasos too?
They want all from the Amiga Scene but they give nothing back - they
support only they own OS and Hardware!
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 44 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 13-Jun-2003 17:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Anonymous):
>The A500 and A2000 are AMIGA Computers and you can
use the same Software because it is a AMIGA!!

And the black and white televeision has been superceded by color TV. And DTV/HDTV. At least in most neighborhoods that have functioning indoor plumbing That's life ; }


>Can i see or use MorphOS Software on my AMIGA?



NO i cant so why did you compare differnt things?





I have nothing against Genesi,dont missunderstood me
but i dont like the way they try to take the manpower from the Amiga
Scene!

>Without the Manpower from the Amiga Scene Genesi where nothing!
>But what did they do for us - the Amiga Users?

They've done plenty for some of us. We are no longer stuck on decrepit slow hardware, and we are using our Amiga apps, and we are developing new things that will int turn help some others to do what they want.


>Why dont they give a sign that they like AmigaOS too?

Amiga-compatible API? Developers from Amiga background? I think it is rather obvious.


>Why dont make Genesi it possible to use AmigaOS 4.0 on Pegasos too?

It takes two (or more) to tango.


>They want all from the Amiga Scene but they give nothing back - they
support only they own OS and Hardware!

Oh, pity they would not also support all the other hardware and OSes out there - though they are making big headway on getting multiple OSes running on Pegasos. But of course it is NOT their responibility to become the welfare office, or to play into someone's pleas for mercy sex. They wont; singlehandedly be able to bring about world peace either, BTW.
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 45 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jun-2003 17:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Anonymous):
Ask Hyperion to do similar promotion for OS4 perhaps?

Now, could you please stop that pathetic attack. Too damn clear what your real motives are.
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 46 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by bbrv on 13-Jun-2003 18:06 GMT
From: R&B <bplan@thendic-france.com>
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 10:17:08 Europe/Paris
To: XXX@XXX.XXX
Subject: Amiga Demoscene Archive

Good Morning!

Re: A.D.A. and the thread on ANN.

Somehow we had missed your site until we saw the post on ANN this morning. What a nicely scripted site. Congratulations.

Re: Amidemos

OK, it does not look as pretty (yet), but it is functional and you have archived some great demos. We watched a couple this morning. Thanks.

We are Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck. We have been interested in doing something to revive the demo scene as we can to the new Pegasos platform which will be commercially released soon (www.pegasosppc.com). We have funded bplan, the Pegasos, MorphOS, Thendic and Thendic-France and are about to combine all the important resources of these companies into one entity. The Pegasos will be commercially released at the Amiga Retro Show in Aachen on 7-8 December (http://www.amiga-messe.de). We would VERY much like to have a section in our booth dedicated to the Demo Scene (or really the Amiga Scene as it was known even earlier). We have plenty of "retro" machines there in another booth from our personal collection and we would enjoy having people like yourselves involved. If you are interested, please let us know.

In fact, our interest runs much deeper and we need someone to assist us in a much broader effort. Please allow us to explain. We have been working on this email for a while, but the post this morning pushed us to finish it and send it out....here goes! (we have copied others we have discussed the demo scene with and the Show organizers for the Show in Lodz, Poland next weekend as we have been looking for a "contest" idea for the Show).
_________________

The Demo Scene really began with floppy discs being sent from friend to friend across international boundaries long before the start of the internet, and evolved long before the current widespread availability of access to the world wide web via graphical browsers like Netscape or Internet Explorer. There was no cohesive or coercive structural influence that brought these sophisticated computer users together and in our opinion it was this "scene" that really made the Amiga what it was. Derived from these talents came the games and the interest that later fully allowed the platform to succeed in the early 90's. Hackers sprung from this culture too, but we will come back to that.

Most files that were also maintained and distributed on private scene bulletin board systems which of course has evolved until today into sites like your own. These were operated by keen amateurs while the internet was still the exclusive domain of government instruments and research institutions. The sites still are operated in this way, but much more of the world has access (with plenty of room for growth). If you can find an article about Digital Graffiti which appeared in the UK edition of WIRED magazine, issue 1.03 in June 1995, by Dave Green, and republished in the US edition, issue 3.07 in July 1995, retitled Demo Or Die! (the unacknowledged slogan of demo group SANITY), you will notice that our ideas then are not too different than they are now. But, this had to do with the set-top box and our old company VisCorp (if you are interested see http://www.amiga-news.de/archiv02/020417_interview_bb_pt.shtml). Let's come back to the present.

The scene was/is an aspect of a wider information technology related cultural environment which had it's origins with the beginnings of the automation of national and international telecommunications, and is characterized by an impetus among its adherents towards the discovery and exploitation of features available within the technological environment which are not publicly documented. The hacker ethos within today's information culture has been journalistically incorporated within a fashionable cyberpunk image, which while sharing some philosophical positions and possibly providing attributes in terms of personal accessories which might be adopted by individuals, is NOT however representative of what the demo scene was.

WE WANT TO BRING BACK THE DEMO SCENE AND THE CREATIVE AND TECHNICAL SKILL THAT WAS SO CHARACTERISTIC OF IT!!!

We have identified a number of characteristics that distinguished the "demo" from the thousands of commercial and non-commercial software titles available. A few items are:

a. The programs are not commercially produced for sale.
b. The authors and contributors if identified almost always use pseudonyms.
c. The items generally allude to a syndicated allegiance with a group name.
d. The programs' overt function is message passing and skill exposition.
e. Kinetic qualities were unachievable using commercial multimedia software.
f. Real time computer generated music is part of the presentation.
g. Visual effects push the supposed limits of the machine's capability.
h. Chronologically developing repertoire of visual kinetic effects.
i. If included, frequently uninhibited, egotistical, vernacular text.
k. Visual presentation generally non narrative, often linked to or by music.
l. Almost entirely male gender produced (we need to find some young ladies as today's world is different).
m. The software code is inaccessible without highly specialized knowledge.
n. The software frequently employed a non-standard (disk) operating system and we have a new one -- ;-).
o. Graphic design content is often skillfully executed.
p. Graphic style frequently derived from science fiction or fantasy genre.
q. Visual effects often copied from other demos with increased sophistication.
r. International origins attributable, predominantly to northern Europe.
s. Evidence of cross national cooperation in production.
t. Evidence of predominantly adolescent male youth participation.
u. Distribution by mail, modem, PD software libraries and personal contact
v. . Minor acknowledgment, only in Amiga computer specific leisure press.

We have an interest in these qualities for the future of the Pegasos platform.

Coming back to "hackers" and the pseudonyms the hackers like to give themselves. We see this as all part of the
bravado (especially to fellow pirates and "sly digs") being made to the people who provide the technical protection. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that computer software piracy as a social phenomenon generally pervades the growing international community of computer users, though numerically probably to a lesser extent than broadcast media and music piracy in the context of domestic off air video and audio copying and re-recording. The Hacker "culture" was largely blamed for this.

Certainly in the Amiga world this association is clear and seemingly blatantly confirmed. What was mostly supposed to be teenage exponents of copy protection code breaking, crackers, purposely attract attention to themselves or at least their adopted and ominous pseudonym entities through the inclusion of cynical announcements in their distributed illicit entertainment products. Cooperative endeavor in obtaining, cracking and redistributing illicit software appears to be one of the focus activities of demo groups. Breaking copy protection schemes while in itself a challenge is inevitably also a form of industrial sabotage and it is clear that there are determined elements within the international hacker and demo subculture whose anti corporate disposition gains an aberrant satisfaction from the causation of overt destruction of commercial protection. We need to figure out how to give rise to the good attributes and channel the superior technical abilities into good channels by providing creative and commercial recognition.

We are willing to do that by providing forums for the display of such talents and IF desired a commercial outlet!

Within the demo scene the audio visual cultural artifact produced is a currency. It is a means of transaction not only for the expression of a set of aesthetic ideals but also for the claiming of status and respect within a transnational community. These productions are a means for declaring mastery over an aspect of an increasingly technologically mediated world. This ability to manipulate technology as evident in the demos and intros produced and the rapidity with which software copy protection schemes are cracked AND IMPROVED FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL SHOULD sit comfortably alongside a demo creed which declares oneness with technology.

Can we resurrect this mentality into a broader community of users?

Here is something we took from and old article:

"C Y B E R P U N K E X P L A I N E D"

O R G A N I Z A T I O N A L
1. Communication is the foundation of Empire.
2. Don't just sit there - Do it!
3. KIS/KIE - Keep It Simple/Keep It Elegant
4. Experiment, Experiment, Experiment.
5. Quality never goes begging.
6. Decentralize and make it worthwhile.
7. Nobody ever went broke by making a profit.
8. Listen and satisfy.
9. Crossbreeding produces mutation.
10. Be different. If you can't be different, be strange.
11. Style is a weapon.
12. The individual is smarter than the mob.
13. Reality is what you make it.
14. The Idea is an immortal virus.
15. Superior technology is superior choice.
16. Action's on the Edge.
Enjoy it - all else follows.

I N D I V I D U A L I S M
Cyberpunk is the triumph of the individual through the power of technology. Modern and postmodern
technology has given the individual the power to express and realize the creative diversity of
his own ideas, a power unprecedented in history.

P E R S O N A L T E C H N O L O G Y
Cyberpunk is closely linked with personal technology, which can be defined as technology which is
"close to the skin." Examples are the personal computer, the Walkman, the colour-changing contact
lens, and so on. This is the kind of technology which gives power to the individual.

T H E E D G E
Cyberpunk is existence on the Edge. The Edge refers to the frontiers, be they social, technological, or
mental. It is an attitude which embraces the new, is willing to try the untried, is willing to experiment.
It is a fascination with the fringes, and the boundary conditions, and in general, with the Edge of
current reality.

S T Y L E
Cyberpunk is Style. Style is used to make a point, to entertain, and to make an individual stand out in
a crowd. In Cyberpunk, Style applies to everything from fashion, to software, to hardware, to
behaviour, to everything under the Sun. Whatever it is, it should look good, feel slick, and be done
with elegance. In Cyberpunk, Style is the ultimate weapon, and it is used to wage war on the
mundane.

I N N O V A T I O N
Cyberpunk is innovation at all levels. It is the attitude that there is always a better way of doing
something and that there is glory in discovering it.

D I A G O N A L T H I N K I N G
Cyberpunk is diagonal thinking, which can be defined as creative rule breaking, nonconformal
cerebration and, in general, using virgin neural pathways on a regular basis. It is very closely linked
with innovation, since innovation is frequently the result of diagonal thinking.

U N D E R G R O U N D H U M O U R
There is a strong element of underground humour in Cyberpunk, and this is a part of Style. The
essential absurdity of modern life is well realised in the concept of Cyberpunk and is expressed all
over the place. It's an irreverent attitude towards the world that characterizes Cyberpunk.

C O M M U N I C A T I O N
Cyberpunk is, above all, communication. The transfer and manipulation of information (which is
what communication is, in this context) is, more than anything else, what Cyberpunk is all about.
Cyberpunk rides the seas of information along the links, whether they are video, or telephone, or
computer networks, or printed media, and it is the interaction of myriads of individuals along those
links which makes cyberpunk possible. Cyberpunk is about the mastery of information flow and about
the skill in shaping, processing, and manipulating data."

taken from LSD [Leeds Spreading Division], Grapevine, December 1993

We know that demos are not made without a cost. The amount of time, patience, knowledge and skill development required are far from trivial. To make a competent production in this genre, graphic, musical and
programming ability must be integrated and the work can occupy from a few hours for an intro by a
veteran group, to several weeks or months for a major demo release, as is often recollected in included
texts. Invariably the production credits indicate teamwork as members contribute different abilities towards
a common end, often expressing pride in each others work. The projects sometimes involve
international cooperation as scattered individuals or chapters collaborate on larger productions. To
the sub-culturally uninitiated, these productions are inconsequential, colored shapes flying around on
screen to a musical score somewhat limited in it's dynamic range and style. A comment that the text is
meaningless and that there are better things on the television may well be appropriate, but for the
aspiring demo maker, established group member or an amateur computer enthusiast, a demo or intro
even without text presents within the sequences of patterns and dancing shapes, encoded information
of at least equivalent significance to the aesthetic gratification this variety of eye candy might
stimulate.

To the enlightened a secondary reading of the demo presentation will reveal information about
competence, skill and ingenuity in manipulating the hidden capabilities of the hardware. This
presupposes sophisticated programming competence or at least the ability to access and modify the
work of others, preferably in assembler code. The animated images are of mathematically described
objects, geometric shapes and numerical control of the system graphics processor often requiring
hundreds of lines of such code. Logotypes frequently executed with enviable craftsmanship, generally
have a monumental appearance of rock, metal or gothic horror dripping blood typography as found on
cinema posters or video cassette covers. Pictorial imagery where used frequently conforms to a visual
realism based on forms of popular science fiction and fantasy illustration seen in the better comics, the
work of Boris Valejo, Roger Dean and similar. Musically, while early examples rely on simple
computer audio synthesis and a style similar to that heard in games arcades, the sound which
accompanies today's demos and intros is usually considerably more sophisticated, employing digitized
audio samples, sequenced into the rhythms and treatments of popular music such as hip hop, acid,
funk, rap, techno and other variants, but with frequently elaborate melody lines and variations,
probably due to the technical limitations of including vocal lyrics.

In addition to the customary musical accompaniment, demos and intros also have been found to
incorporate a number of standard components or parts: a group logo, symbol or both (illustrations as
examples of artistic prowess; text messages or announcements delivered onto the screen by various
routines such as scrolling, zooming, pixel sprinkling, etc.; graphic and animation routines; lists of
greetings to other scene members; and the credits. These elements might appear in any order or be
integrated together in any combination, and while intros generally only contain one or two routines, a
demo or mega demo may present 20 routines or more. Scene diskzine publications such as Eurochart,
differentiate in their voting between single part demos which load the complete program into RAM
prior to playback, and multi-load demos which continue to load segments during the demo
presentation which can last for more than half an hour of continually changing program content.
Status within the subculture accrues to individuals or groups on the basis of overall design or demo
structure, innovation in the implementation of graphics routines or improvement upon existing ones
as indicated above, and then as a result of evidence of expertise in specific skill areas such as
illustration or musicianship.

As observed through scene publications and self references in their productions, the demo scene
consists of three tiers. The individual, the group or team and the scene. There is also strong evidence
of the importance of status of groups within the scene ranging from elite to lame. A description of
scene stratification appeared in the diskzine Freedom Crack (issue 9, 1992) by scene member, Style of
Vega and was titled "Levels of the scene."
________
I decided to write in article just to show you like the scene is in my head, in fact in the brain
of everybody. Just to show the different levels of the scene. I classified the scene in two
different things: the demo scene, and the criminal scene. So here's the different category
WITHOUT any group name!
The demo scene:
[1]
Here we have the top elite of the scene. Cool groups with nice demos and nice design, nice
music, nice graphics, and fucking cool code. These groups are at the tops of the charts, and
they produce a lot of quality stuff. They have also some BBS [Bulletin Board Systems],
sometimes.
[2]
The groups who're in this section are also in the charts, sometimes for diskmag, sometimes
for cool demo, and they have very good reputation. They own some BBS, and some swappers
and this is why they are famous. They produce also some cool demos, quality intros with nice
design.
[3]
These groups are known, but they're not in any charts, coz they produce a lot of intros, but
not any cool demo/dentros. They prefer quantity than quality, and this is why they're known.
Some of them makes some quality intros, but not more.
[4]
These groups are known only because they write articles for diskmag, and only bcoz they
swap with a lot of people. They're only `swapping group', but they didn't produce anything.
Some of them own some BBS, and they are known in the modem scene.
[5]
They make 1 or 2 intro per year, just for fun, and they don't care about the others groups of
the scene. They just produce for themselves.
[6]
They're not known, but they think that they're pure elite bla bla. They don't know anything of
the scene, what means diskmag, they're just cli [command line interface - standard operating
system] demo makers, they also produce demos and intros with demo makers [automated
demo making utility software - not individually coded].
[7]
They don't know what means the word `Amiga scene', and they have just an Amiga for
games.
The criminal scene
[1]
They came from the real pure top elite, these groups have the best crackers, the fastest
original suppliers and the fastest boards. They have also some elite mail trader and some elite
modem trader.
[2]
They have some fast boards [BBS], some modem traders, and they make some trainers
[modified game software to give infinite lives etc.]. They are the fastest trainers makers and
have also a lot of credits in a lot of cool BBS.
[3]
They have not any BBS. just some modem traders, and they make some trainers. But they
are not the fastest.
[4]
They make some trainer, sometimes a crack, but they haven't any modem trader or any BBS,
they just do it and spread the trainer or the crack by mail.
[5]
They don't know what means BBS, modem traders, these groups think that they can cracks
games without problem, but they're just lame game players who dream to crack and to make
trainers.
Hope you like this little article about the different level of the scene. You can perhaps find
your own level. Remember that this article is NOT for 1 group or person. It shows you the
whole scene. Anyway, if you didn't like this article, then do something better for the next
Freedom Crack!
_______________________

Most of these features are clearly evident in the demo scene although the associations which exist are
not formalized in any conventionally official sense. We know that there are certain events which are still popular and we also know that most demos these days are being done on a PC, while the scene has grow up in the last 20 years and may be sitting at home with a few children now and a regular job...can we bring these people back?!

The FIRST PEGASOS GATHERING

This needs to be more than a code party and we should use technology to bring us online together to innovate and observe the works of others. What new ideas can we bring from the past to today's scene?

We are willing to sponsor a massive gathering or party that provides an opportunity for members from various groups and locations to meet, exchange ideas and warez and compete. Categories for competition can be standard best demo, best intro, best music, best graphics and we can have a coding competition to produce an intro or short demo during the time of the party. Voting will be done by the attendees and prizes are awarded either in the form of cash (beyond the sale of tickets for the event), and fully loaded and stylized PEGASOS *very special* machines. Following the competition, compilations of the winners and runners up will be produced and distributed to other Pegasos users online. In the near-future, we will have the handheld equivalent of the Pegasos, which is really where the demo virtues need to come into play.

UNDERSTANDING THE MOTIVATION

As earlier discussed, the production of demos frequently represents an enormous investment in time
and commitment for the individuals concerned. The issue of motivation therefore arises. The reward
from winning competitions beyond offering a Pegasos or peripherals could be cash in the amount of $2000 - $5000.

Maslow said, "The metaneeds [truth, goodness, perfection, justice, etc.] seem to me to be instinctoid, that is, to have an appreciable hereditary, species-wide determination. But they are potentialities rather than actualities. Culture is definitely and absolutely needed for their actualization; but also culture can fail to actualize them....".

CONCLUSION

The technological capability of the computer and the camaraderie of peers, provides the opportunity for self actualization to occur. It is an opportunity to strive to excel and achieve in the face of what might appear to be an unsatisfactory and hypocritical cultural and social external environment (not to mention Windows). It is noted however that this predisposition for self actualization is equal for any domain of endeavor that might be determined through the embrace of the group for the individual.

Can we re-develop this culture again within the boundaries of a new OS: MorphOS that can do things that no PC/Windows derivative can do? Particularly, in the future with a handheld wireless device!

The demo scene proceeded on the basis of liberty and cooperation in the absence of coercive or cohesive structural influence. The productions, demos and intros, created within this environment functioned both as the sign equipment of the subculture and as a means of self expression and self actualization for the individuals involved. These productions have been found to present certain characteristics which in combination distinguish the genre sufficiently from other existing kinetic audio visual media genre types to warrant the genre's recognition as a specific and distinct type of cultural artifact. These are the routines and the essentially non-narrative format of their presentation. Series of technical exercises as demonstrations of prowess and mastery of their medium
of expression, though with their musical presentation context also involving creativity in their choreography therefore resulting in a type of vernacular audio visual art form. We conclude that these characteristics need to be supported by the Pegasos and the new company we are forming to bring back this aspect of computer use and individual involvement. There are sufficient resources through the Internet and this new platform to constitute a
significant and international cyber-culture.

You are welcome to distribute this email as widely as you like. We would really like to get this going for MorphOS and the Pegasos!

Best regards,

Raquel and Bill
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 47 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 13-Jun-2003 18:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (hooligan/dcs):
@Hooligan/DCS

Thank you for your information!
Good luck to you and your crew!

@Bill B.

Thank you too!
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 48 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Psycho/Loonies on 13-Jun-2003 19:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (z5):
10 machines shouldn't be able to wipe out the 68k scene... most people still
have 68k, and personally I like to do something very different from
the highend stuff at work (pc games).

But I had my doubt about applying to this thing too - something along
the lines if this was "free as in beer, not as in speech" to
reverse a famous quote :), but my impression from hooligan etc. is
that this is more about getting the machines now and then release
something on a party later (and not "more" than that in the
meantime, no further obligations etc), than some ongoing genesi
promotion. I would consider myself mostly towards OS4, but hey - why
don't give it a shot :) (otherwise I'll have to get in the line of
ppl wanting OS4 for the pegasos ;)

I also like the challenge in having a competition on very equal
terms on some exotic hardware. More like a one-shot challenge than the
usual parties. What happens afterwards - well, let's see how it
goes...
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 49 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 13-Jun-2003 19:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anonymous):
Ehm, this is called developer support... That is a form of advertising indeed
and it is VERY common... Even Commodore did it... Guess what? Some people, like
you, aren't used to it cause there was noone to do it over the past decade...
Genesi will support the demoscene with ten fully configured Pegasos-systems! : Comment 50 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 13-Jun-2003 20:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Anonymous):
Can i see or use MorphOS Software on my AMIGA?
NO i cant so why did you compare differnt things?
--

Yes you can... By running MorphOS on your Amiga... This is possible since... 2000?

They would run on Amiga hardware then. Now, you can go around using Samface's
arguement that anything that doesn't use AmigaOS on an Amiga is not Amiga software...
Like *MANY* hardware banging games that just use their own routines for
EVERYTHING or some demos that can even work without a Kickstart...

Apart from that, yeah, the Pegasos is not an Amiga, TM wise...
Hardware wise, NO new hardware is even Amiga like...
You can see that your arguement is flawed.
The Amiga is not a TM anymore... It's a feeling...
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