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[Web] Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 availableANN.lu
Posted on 16-Jul-2003 04:11 GMT by Martin 'Senex' Heine117 comments
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Now available is the first CPU upgrade card for the Pegasos. Taking advantage of the flexible, expandable and open architecture, Genesi is delivering a G4 upgrade card to take your computing experiences to the next level! Pegasos G4 CPU Card

Now available is a processor card sporting the Motorola 7447 running at 1Ghz or more. The 7447 is the latest in the 4th generation (G4) PowerPC lineup from Motorola, offering an improved performance base over the previous generation (G3) series of processors. In addition to a larger cache, the 7447 offers more pipelines, an improved front side bus (FSB) and most of all, a SIMD unit called the Altivec. Altivec offers a dedicated on-chip vector engine, capable of delivering over a Gflops (billion floating point operations per second) while remaining affordable to the average user.

We have prepared a PDF document (4.7meg) describing many of the G4 processor's architectural benefits.

A small number of Pegasos 1 / April 2 systems are available with this G4 card for 499 Euros.

Please contact bbrv@genesi.lu if you are interested in this offer.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 1 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Leif on 16-Jul-2003 02:28 GMT
The PDF link does not work.

What happened to the argument that G4 would not
perform any better than a G3 on a Pegasos or AmigaOne ?

And what use would an improved frontside bus speed offer.. ?
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 2 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Chain|Q on 16-Jul-2003 02:37 GMT
The correct PDF URL is this:
http://www.pegasosppc.com/files/g4.pdf

Just replaced ann.lu with www.pegasosppc.com in the wrong URL... :)
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 3 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll on 16-Jul-2003 02:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Leif):
I remember that. He actually said a Pegasos with the "April2 fix" outpreforms a G4 Teron - he didnt say AmigaOne, though thats the impression many of us got at the time, including me. He also didnt mean it would preform better in terms of raw CPU either. Feel free to clarify this BBRV.

It would be interesting to see some real benchmarks.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 4 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-Jul-2003 05:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Leif):
It was based on a flawed premise.

So the few that are available for sale, are they out of the original 100 production run?
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 5 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 05:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (DaveP):
600!!! dammit
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 6 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Jul-2003 05:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Leif):
Guess that issue was FUD?

Funny to see that they *still* have Peg1's laying arround tho, after all the "we sold out" 'news' items.

But still, the more choice the better :)

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 7 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 16-Jul-2003 05:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
Anonymous wrote:
> 600!!! dammit

Maybe DaveP is talking about the original Beta Boards(?). I hope he's aware that more than 100 Pegasos boards have been produced, in total. I doubt if these are early boards, though. Surely you'd want to test the G4 cards in the most recent motherboards. Because of the hit-and-miss nature of G4 cpus working with the Articia chip (detailed here: http://www.phinixi.com/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=29), Genesi must have kept enough boards around to test a significant sample of combinations. Once they had their data, the test boards could be offered for sale, right?

-- gary_c
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 8 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 16-Jul-2003 05:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Amon_Re):
Amon_Re wrote:
> Funny to see that they *still* have Peg1's laying arround tho, after all the "we sold out" 'news' items.

Like I said in the previous post, Genesi had to keep boards on hand for testing the G4, so they weren't for sale, but also weren't exactly just laying around. Somehow a press announcement that says "Sold out except for some retained for research and development" doesn't have the same punch as a simple "sold out", does it? ;-)

-- gary_c
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 9 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-Jul-2003 05:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (gary_c):
It was me correcting my typo.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 10 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 16-Jul-2003 06:22 GMT
It must be admitted, the AmigaONE was the first in the G4 race. Genesi had admittedly problems with the G4, working flawlessly with some boards and not working with others. At least I'm glad that it is discussed in the open, and that only 100% working combos are sold. Facing and admitting problems is an admirable thing, methinks.

Hopefully things will change with the Articia-less Pegasos II.

(Me, who is happy, played MegaMek over the net last night with some PC user friends of mine from a Pegasos ;))
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 11 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 07:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Emeric SH):
>It must be admitted, the AmigaONE was the first in the G4 race. Genesi has been more clever waiting for the new improved G4 generation andstarting with 1GHz instead of using old power hungry G4 with heat problems. ;-)
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 12 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Jul-2003 07:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (gary_c):
Fair enough, but could this mean that the Peg 2 is about to be delayed?

After all, they were originally not even going to make the G4 boards, and leave that to an external company, no?

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 13 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Jul-2003 07:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
Genesi wasn't "clever" to wait, their boards had problems with the G4 (wich i will *NOT* link to the Articia or to anything else without solid proof).

As for the 800Mhz vs 1Ghz, does it really make much difference at the moment? not really...

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 14 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Jul-2003 07:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Amon_Re):
>After all, they were originally not even going to make the G4 boards,>and leave that to an external company, no? First they wanted to make even dual-G4, then they wanted to make a 200EURupgrade to G4-800, then it became 1GHz and then they didn't want to offerthat G4 upgrade for Peg1 because of the board issues, but said Plexuscommight do Peg1 boards wih G4 (afair) and then they announced the G4 upgradefor Peg1 and then they said it still doesn't work for all boards but theywill work it out (board verification/new one) for ppl. who want that Peg1upgrade.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 15 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by ajsl on 16-Jul-2003 07:56 GMT
> Now available is a processor card sporting the Motorola 7447
> running at 1Ghz or more.

Does this mean that there are a number of G4 upgrade cards available, with the lowest speed being 1Ghz ? What are the other speeds?

Cheers,
Alex.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 16 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 16-Jul-2003 08:14 GMT
Nobody ever said the G4 isn't faster than the G3. However, it has been
claimed that there's not much point in this upgrade on the existing
Pegasos1/Teron/AOne architectures.

Well, the only way to test that is, imo, to set up some test suite
running *real world tasks*, such as compiling some huge project, doing
some large image processing job, rendering something.. well you get
the idea. A test of how fast the cache is is mildly interesting unless
you know that you're going to use the machine for something which
mainly works out of the cache - and such applications are, imo, quite
rare. And when they do exist, a low-end G3 is usually more than enough
to do the job.


Also, bbrv always claimed they'd make a G4 upgrade for the Peg1. What
they did claim was that they wouldn't deliver any special G4 version
of the Peg1. They'd just offer a CPU card. Well, seeing now that this
card doesn't work reliably on all boards (I've no idea what the
problem is, and if it's Pegasos specific or not), they did change
their minds on this point, apparently.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 17 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by moood on 16-Jul-2003 08:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Johan Rönnblom):
BBRV made this post at Amiga.org about the G4 not working with all boards:
(http://amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2369)

> The first 1Ghz+ G4 CPU cards work, but guess what? THEY ONLY WORK WITH
> CERTAIN BOARDS!!! We will only be selling them as a matched sets and we will
> NOT make as many as we intended because ONCE AGAIN the majority of the
> problems can be attributed to the Articia. We are counting the days to the
> Pegasos II release.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 18 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 16-Jul-2003 09:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
So whenever Genesi is first, it's a good thing, and whenever Eyetech is first, it's a bad thing? Like with the CPU slot, I guess. When the Peg came out with a CPU slot it was the #1 reason to go for Pegasos instead of AmigaOne. Don't tell me they haven't had problems with that slot, please. The AmigaOne later came out with a slot that has not caused problems, afaik.

In this case, I would say this module is too late to save the Peg 1 (since that's discontinued already) and too early to say if it's gonna be a success in the Peg 2. The idea of using the same CPU modules is nice, but I doubt they will make that CPU slot run 166MHz FSB (which both the G3 and the G4 now handles, and afaik the Marvell also supports it?). The CPU connector used in the AmigaOne will not have difficulties handling 166MHz or higher FSB, so I actually expect an AmigaTwo based around an ArticiaSa or P to support the old modules and still have new ones at higher FSB. Could be wrong, but don't think so.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 19 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Alfred Schwarz on 16-Jul-2003 09:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Olegil):
I think the funny thing about that whole CPU card is that Genesi says the same CPU card will work in Peg1 and Peg2 but there is still no Peg2 prototype to test it.
As they had to make changes to the G4 card to make it work with at least some April2 Peg1 boards I wonder if it will really work that way.
But I do not see a real benefit from using the same CPU card in both models, they surely do not want to put the old G3/600MHz in the new Peg2 and they could simply make a new G4 card for Peg2 only.

Ciao, Alfred
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 20 of 117ANN.lu
Message removed by Christian Kemp for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Trolling
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 21 of 117ANN.lu
Message removed by Christian Kemp for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Trolling
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 22 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 16-Jul-2003 09:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Amon_Re):
@ Amon_Re

> Fair enough, but could this mean that the Peg 2 is about to be delayed?

Huh? What kind of twisted logic is that?

> After all, they were originally not even going to make the G4 boards, and
> leave that to an external company, no?

AFAIK, there were allways a plan to use G4 in Pegasos 1. Some problems postponed it though.

> Genesi wasn't "clever" to wait, their boards had problems with the G4 (wich i
> will *NOT* link to the Articia or to anything else without solid proof).

LOL! :-D

You *really want* Genesi "to have problems with the G4", but that simply can't have *anything* to do with the Articia (it MUST be something else, ANYTHING else, because it simply *can't be* the Articia, yada, yada, yada)?!
:-)

For the record: Genesi had the G4 running on Pegasos in 2001. The problems that prevented a customer release was connected to the Articia S. There was an interesting discussion about this in this thread:

http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&nid=368

> As for the 800Mhz vs 1Ghz, does it really make much difference at the moment?
> not really...

(Oh, it's publically known now that the G4's will be at 1GHz, I must have missed that!)

It does make a difference. And perhaps even more so the doubled L2 cache size. The 0.13 micron 7447 also runs a lot cooler than the A1 G4 (which obviously had some overheating problems since they had to find a stronger cooling solution). However, IMHO it will make much better sense from a price/performance point of view to run these G4's at the Marvell Discovery II based Pegasos II, with it's higher FSB and fast DDR ram. What's the point of using a really fast CPU if it has to sit on it's ass and wait for the data to be shoveled through narrow buses on a regular basis?
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 23 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Jul-2003 10:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (moood):
Articia? yea sure, it works on some & not on other boards, all using the same old articia, so it *MUST* be the articia right?

Couldn't be poor quality of boards now could it? Couldn't be interference generated by the lines on the PCD now could it, i mean, these people know more about the Articia then the people who designed that crappy chip in the first place!

</sarcasm>

If it were the Articia, would it not be logical that the problems would be constant? Or am i being too logical again?

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 24 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Alfred Schwarz on 16-Jul-2003 10:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (takemehomegrandma):
> AFAIK, there were allways a plan to use G4 in Pegasos 1.

Yes, just like dual CPU and G5...

> You *really want* Genesi "to have problems with the G4", but that simply can't have *anything* to do with the Articia

G4 is running - without problems - in AmigaOne with Articia, what makes you think the problem *is* the Articia?

> Genesi had the G4 running on Pegasos in 2001.

AFAIR that was an early ATX (not miniATX) Pegasos prototype (with two CPU sockets, based mainly on the Teron design) and the G4 card has "Sonnet" on it, there exists a picture somewhere. That thing didn't have much to do with the April2 Peg1 G4 from today.

> There was an interesting discussion about this in this thread:

I don't see any interesting discussion in that thread but some interesting facts. bbrv tells us that the G4 does not work in all Peg1 boards but he doesn't say it's the Articia to blame for (which, I think is interesting, as the Articia is responsibly for every delay and problem of Genesi, even Java for MorphOS).

> IMHO it will make much better sense from a price/performance point of view to run these G4's at the Marvell Discovery II based Pegasos II

Yes, totally true, let's hope Genesi will really put (working) AGP on the board, you do not have much PCI-X or up to date PCI gfx cards to choose from; time for them to build a prototype, I think...

Ciao, Alfred
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 25 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Jul-2003 10:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (takemehomegrandma):
At TMHG,

It's not twisted logic, say that i wanted to produce a Peg 2, but for some reason i'm getting delays.

Customers come nagging all the time for more boards, but wait, still got some old Peg1's! lets sell those with the G4 card (for whom they probably had a prototype laying arround for months) to fill the gap.

I'm not saying they have a delay, it just made me wonder.

As for their problems coming from the Articia or something else, if it were the articia, would it not be logical that the problems would be "constant"? On all the boards?

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 26 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Jul-2003 10:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (takemehomegrandma):
Oh, about the L2 cache, that *is* a valid point ;)

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 27 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Jul-2003 10:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (takemehomegrandma):
TMHGM said:

"
LOL! :-D

You *really want* Genesi "to have problems with the G4", but that simply can't have *anything* to do with the Articia (it MUST be something else, ANYTHING else, because it simply *can't be* the Articia, yada, yada, yada)?!
:-)
"

If you read carefully what i wrote you should have noticed that i said that i wasn't going to link said problems to *anything* without further evidence.

And the more i hear the more i'm starting to suspect the board itself for causing the problems (noicelevels perhaps interfering with the rest? That would explain the random behaviour their G4 card has, going to read those links you posted lateron)

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 28 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 16-Jul-2003 10:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Alfred Schwarz):
> I think the funny thing about that whole CPU card is that Genesi says the
> same CPU card will work in Peg1 and Peg2 but there is still no Peg2 prototype
> to test it.

LOL, so you mean that Carda & Co sit's in their workshop and *HOPES* that the Pegasos II specifications in the end (if the gods are nice, and the planets are in the right position) will turn out in a way that makes it possible for the CPU cards to work?
:-)

A clue: Since they are designing it themselves, they know the design! They are in full control of it you know!

> As they had to make changes to the G4 card to make it work with at least some
> April2 Peg1 boards I wonder if it will really work that way.

I don't know what "changes" has been made to the G4 cards?

> But I do not see a real benefit from using the same CPU card in both models,

Economy of scale?

> they surely do not want to put the old G3/600MHz in the new Peg2

And why not? The Pegasos II mainboard together with a G3 CPU will be available for 299EUR. The G4 entry model will ship for 499EUR (all prices without VAT).

Not everyone is in need of a fast (and more expensive) G4 you know. There might be situations where a €299 G3 could be more suitable.

Who knows, perhaps there will even be an even lower performance PPC 405 based CPU card (or whatever CPU is going to be used in the STB's and similar devices) so that developers can get a better feeling how their applications works at that speed?

> and they could simply make a new G4 card for Peg2 only.

But why?
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 29 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Olegil on 16-Jul-2003 10:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Amon_Re):
The L2 increase is a very valid point, since this is running full speed. But it's not a big secret that the G4 is REALLY hampered by the slow FSB, due to the Altivec (which is the ONLY valid reason to choose a G4 over a new G3 CPU, considering how all the other improvements have been "backported", and it consumes 4-5 times as much power) eating data so quickly (which is why you have the Altivec in the first place). If you don't need a lot of data quickly, you don't need Altivec, and then you shouldn't choose a G4.

I'm actually still considering going for an A1XE with a G3 CPU, because a 1GHz (yep, it can be clocked to that if you really want to) G3 isn't a slow CPU. But for now I'm happy with my 600MHz. It's not getting a lot of use these days anyway (I only have 2 missions left on Majesty, and didn't even know the Expansion is included in the package (so have to play all the missions again), LOL. Too hot to stay indoors here these days. 21 degrees Celsius after midnight can really play havoc with a Norwegian, I tell you.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 30 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by takemehomegrandma on 16-Jul-2003 10:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Amon_Re):
OK, we have been at this Articia S debate too many times allready. It's leading nowhere (and the Articia is not even interesting for the Pegasos anymore), so come on, lets move on!

:-)
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 31 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Wayne Hunt on 16-Jul-2003 10:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Alfred Schwarz):
> there is still no Peg2 prototype to test it.

With all due respect, how could you possibly know what Genesi does, or does not have in their laboratories?
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 32 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Jul-2003 10:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (takemehomegrandma):
Well then, don't mention it the next time! ;)

It's always the same tho, some MOS user will mention the Articia, we question them, and then it's "can't tell", "not intrested", "we did this before" etc etc

Personally, to me it feels like running away from an argument. And life's soo simple really, if you can *prove* that the ArticiaS sucks eggs through straws, would you not think people would be more willing to buy the other option then?

The absence of any substantial evidence alone is reason enough for me to say that the ArticiaS is most likely *not* to blame.

To me it's simple logic, no proof = no problem.

There are so many things in modern PCB's that can be causes for headaches, these things are multilayered and packed with traces, one badly laid out trace can give unwanted interference that can wreck havoc in aperantly unrelated parts of the machine.

But like i said, i'm no hardware engineer, i just know enough to grasp the concepts ;)

Oh, if you read this Bill, when are you going to call me? I'm leaving Belgium this saturday for 10 days (going to Lloret Del Mar, Woohoo!). You asked my number weeks, if not months ago...

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 33 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Jul-2003 10:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Wayne Hunt):
There's a hidden webcam installed there! ;)

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 34 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 16-Jul-2003 10:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Amon_Re):
>It's always the same tho, some MOS user will mention the Articia, we question
>them, and then it's "can't tell", "not intrested", "we did this before" etc
>etc

There has been a very long and interesting discussion about the Articia
problems with certain AmigaOne owners and Ralph Schmidt on amiga-news.de which
began with the usual "It's all the VIA bug!" but unfortunately stopped when it
was clear that the AmigaOne architecture works in a certain different way then
they (AmigaOne owners) have thought before.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 35 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Jul-2003 10:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (David Scheibler):
Link please ;)

You'll find me to be more willing to discuss this, if presented with facts i will accept "defeat" (although i'd actually have won eighter way, 'cause the truth will be out there).

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 36 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Alfred Schwarz on 16-Jul-2003 10:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (takemehomegrandma):
> They are in full control of it you know!

Yes, just like they are for the Peg1. To have control of something does not mean you will have no problems.

> I don't know what "changes" has been made to the G4 cards?

Ask bbrv, he/she/it/them wrote it. This is why the G4 does work at last in The Peg1.

> Economy of scale?

There is not much to scale with the Peg1. Economy would mean they would simply forget about upgrading the Peg1 and make the Peg2 ready.
And - of course - you do not really know that the G4 cards will work in the Peg2 until you tried it, but without Peg2 you cannot test it. The world is not ideal and some things do not work as they should. Ever heard of the Mercedes A modell story and why it has ESP?

> And why not?

The G3 cards are used, they cannot sell them as new; yes, they can sell them of course.

>> and they could simply make a new G4 card for Peg2 only.
> But why?

Economy of sale.
G4 for Peg1 is totally useless is the Peg2 is right around the corner (and I do not see why anybody would trade her/his Peg1 G3 with a Peg1 G4 if he can have a Peg2 G4 for the same money), Genesi made enough loss with the April1/2 exchanging (and are now trying to get some of that money back with the summer sale) and they will make even more with the Peg2 exchange. They could at least try to avoid making more loss with the G4 upgrade.

I think it would be understandable if Genesi would tell "Sorry folks, there will be no CPU upgrade for the Peg1 but you will be able to trade in your Peg1 for a brand new Peg2" as they did before changing their minds (and changing, and changing...).

Ciao, Alfred
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 37 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Alfred Schwarz on 16-Jul-2003 11:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Wayne Hunt):
> With all due respect, how could you possibly know what Genesi does, or does not have in their laboratories?

from bbrv:

http://www.morphos-news.de/comments.php?lg=en&cpp=1&nid=368&page=13

"1. The Pegasos II will be ready in September. It will come with G3 and G4 options. The Pegasos II will use a Marvell northbridge. There are NO prototypes yet. However, we do have samples from Marvell."

At least, there was no prototype on 03-Jul-2003, 08:28:51, so I was just thinking there will bo still none two weeks later. I'm sure if it was running bbrv would have made a big anouncement about it.

Ciao, Alfred
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 38 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Alfred Schwarz on 16-Jul-2003 11:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Amon_Re):
Hey it's even better, the MOS guys do exactly know that there will be less (or even no) problems with the Marvell chip and a new board design, even if there is no prototype yet!

;-)

Ciao, Alfred
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 39 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Alfred Schwarz on 16-Jul-2003 11:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (David Scheibler):
> There has been a very long and interesting discussion [...]

Yes it was, but I wouldn't say it was clear from the discussion that is - or is not - responsible for any problems.
For example Ralp Schmidt never answered to the question why Wintel boxes with the VIA can have problems when transferring data on the network and not from disk.
And Genesi/bplan still does not want to tell anything about the big number of bugs the Articia has or what the April1/2 fixes.

At the moment, nothing is proofen.

Facts are:

Pegasos1 has problems, with or without April1/2.
There are DMA problems on AmigaOne (at least with Linux, nothing else to test).
WIntel Boxes with same VIA chipset as AmigaOne have similar problems then the AmigaOne.
Pegasos1 and AmigaOne have similar DMA problems.

Not more, not less.

Ciao, Alfred
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 40 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 16-Jul-2003 11:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Alfred Schwarz):
Well there are pros for the Marvell Discovery chipset:

1) It is already used in a variety of devices
2) It is promoted by Motorola as the prefered system controller for the G4
3) Genesi has the Marvell development system which works as expected.
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 41 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Alfred Schwarz on 16-Jul-2003 11:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (David Scheibler):
> 1) It is already used in a variety of devices

Isn't the Articia not used in embedded devices? I'm not sure about this, but I don't think MAI will for the small amount of AMigaOne/Pegasos1 only.

> 2) It is promoted by Motorola as the prefered system controller for the G4

Doesn't have the Articia that certified by IBM thing? ;-)

> 3) Genesi has the Marvell development system which works as expected.

Just like the Teron developer boards from MAI did.

The Marvell does have some interesting features, but building a complete computer around it is just another thing (there's still the problem with missing AGP; there's again a difference between saying "that's just a couple of wires and a chip" and building it for real).
I'm *really* wondering how they will make it to an end user system until September if they didn't have a prototype in July (and when bbrv says "Peg2 will be ready in September" I think that means end user version, not board layouts, prototypes or Betatester 3).

Ciao, Alfred
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 42 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 16-Jul-2003 11:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Alfred Schwarz):
>Doesn't have the Articia that certified by IBM thing?

Yes, and they had to put this nice disclaimer on their homepage telling that
IBM did not test their system...
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 43 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 16-Jul-2003 11:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Olegil):
@Olegil:
The Articia used in the AmigaOne allows a 166Mhz FSB???¿?¿?¿?
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 44 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Jul-2003 11:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (David Scheibler):
Where exactly is that disclaimer?

PS: Link? Please? Pretty please?

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 45 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 16-Jul-2003 11:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (takemehomegrandma):
@takemehomegrandma
"G4's at the Marvell Discovery II based Pegasos II, with it's higher FSB and fast DDR ram. What's the point of using a really fast CPU if it has to sit on it's ass and wait for the data to be shoveled through narrow buses on a regular basis?
"
As G4s still doesn't use DDR you will only have the advantage of cheaper memory modules (if the DiscoveryII doesn't need registered memory... registered DDR is more expensive than non-DDR registered sdram) and the slightly faster FSB (166 instead of 133). The speed difference shouldn't be so great... Pegasos I users usually have a 100Mhz bus and don't commit suicide...

The problem I see with the AmigaOne is price, if the PegasosII is released at that prices Eyetech should sell AmigaOnes cheaper...

IMHO the PegasosII board will be better (3gigabit Ethernets ...yum yum), but sold at that prices it will be a killer! :-D
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 46 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 16-Jul-2003 12:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Amon_Re):
Directly at the entry page. A bit hard too read/find though.

http://www.mai.com/image/PPC_logo_notice.gif
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 47 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 16-Jul-2003 12:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Wayne Hunt):
@wayne:
BBRV said recently that they still didn't have PegasosII prototypes and that they were testing the Marvell's developer boards... I'm sure that they will show to the world their new prototypes... AGP support should be quite easy to add and adapting the Marvell developer board to use their southbridge, their CPU slot etc... shouldn't take them much time... I think that they will show us the Pegasos II in september as they promised :-)
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 48 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Jul-2003 12:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Crumb // AAT):
I think you're underestimating the complexity of their work here mate ;)

But i'm pretty sure they'll have something to show in september, and hey, i don't recall them saying what year ;)

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 49 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 16-Jul-2003 12:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (David Scheibler):
Thx, but it does look pretty standard to me tho

Oh well, going outside, my eyes hurt from reading that small print ;)

Cheers
Genesi: Small number of Pegasos I / G4 available : Comment 50 of 117ANN.lu
Posted by corpse on 16-Jul-2003 12:16 GMT
" Now available is the first CPU upgrade card for the Pegasos. Taking advantage of the flexible, expandable and open architecture,"

Making it somehow better then X86 architectures that have had the ability to upgrade the CPU for at least a decade... yeah right.

Its not very impressive considering even a shitty old SUN Sparc workstation (SS20) can take multiple CPU's in each MBUS slot and can even run with multiple CPU's of different speeds and in weird configurations (3 CPU's for instance).
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