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[Rant] [Rant] Elb*x soap opera publishedANN.lu
Posted on 16-Aug-2003 13:24 GMT by Chris Hodges57 comments
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If you've got some time to waste, read all the mails between a certain company and the Poseidon author on Platon42's Homepage. I hope this will make things a bit clearer to the public on the reasons, why I dropped further Sp*d*r registrations. But be warned: It is sometimes offensive and it is unabridged. Make up your mind, but please don't start pointless fights here. Opinions WILL differ. Keep them to your own, don't try to convince people. And won't be offended, if you didn't agree with me :)
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 1 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-Aug-2003 11:32 GMT
Why have you obscured the "Spider" like its a swearword?
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 2 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 16-Aug-2003 11:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (DaveP):
I didn't write Spider, did I? If I would, a certain company might object and think I was speaking of their product. But I'm not ;-)
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 3 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Aug-2003 12:00 GMT
Just one thing: You say that will you drop support
of the Spider eventually, but you will continue
to support the other solutions for lifetime. I am
an honest user who registered Poseidon for 20 Euros,
some of which I presume you have received. Why wont
you continue to support us, in the same way (as
owners of Algor, Norway etc.)?
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 4 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 16-Aug-2003 12:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
First, there is nothing like a lifetime support. And then, I didn't say I have dropped support for existing and already registered Spider users.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 5 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Lando on 16-Aug-2003 12:53 GMT
It looks like it would have been better for both if Elbox had gone with their own stack right from the beginning. Hopefully they'll have their developers finishing it off for Spider owners.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 6 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Aug-2003 15:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Chris Hodges):
>And then, I didn't say I have dropped support for existing and already registered Spider users

No, not yet -- but you will -- THAT's what I'm referring to. (According
to your homepage).

Anyway, I'm very grateful for the superb work you've put
into Poseidon. Thanks :)
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 7 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 16-Aug-2003 15:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Anonymous):
> >And then, I didn't say I have dropped support for existing and already registered Spider users
> No, not yet -- but you will -- THAT's what I'm referring to. (According
to your homepage).

No, that's not correct. It's written there, that at some point, I *might* stop giving out *free* updates. Please don't read out things that are not stated there. Thanks.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 8 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 16-Aug-2003 15:59 GMT
For those who want to see how rest of the world sees Elbox:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6302
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 9 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 16-Aug-2003 16:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (JoannaK):
Note that the press release they're referring to has magically disappeared and replaced by an older press release of different date. Fortunately, it still can be found here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Mediator/message/14464
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 10 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-Aug-2003 16:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (JoannaK):
Which is probably the most useless and unsubstantial article Ive ever seen.

Given there is no preamble to the article I hardly think its "rest of world" ( as assumption seems to be you know what an Amiga is ).

Far from The Times, or even The Register. ;-)
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 11 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 16-Aug-2003 16:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (DaveP):
Well they may not know about Amiga or it's late failures but hey
definitely can see who's stoopid.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 12 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Aug-2003 16:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Chris Hodges):
>No, that's not correct. It's written there, that at some point, I *might* stop >giving out *free* updates. Please don't read out things that are not stated >there. Thanks.

Right, I get it. Well, that is not so bad then :)
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 13 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Cosmo on 16-Aug-2003 16:56 GMT
Interesting, if a bit long. For anyone who hasn't made up their mind about the parties involved, I'd recommend reading this. I believe Elbox come away from this looking rather professional and business-like at all times, whereas Chris Hodges comes across like inexperienced petulant child.

I doubt that was the intention of posting this material.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 14 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 16-Aug-2003 17:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Cosmo):
> I doubt that was the intention of posting this material.
á

Yeah, this was the intention. To make up your mind yourself.
á

If it means that to be professional and business-like to be dishonest and snotty, then I'd rather stay a crotchetly child. I think there's a certain figure of speech about children...
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 15 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Aug-2003 17:22 GMT
What is really interesting is how Elbox reveal their true nature about Picasso96 event. They *still* claim they've done nothing wrong.

Also they claim to have right to abuse every else's software (Picasso96, Poseidon), but feel they have right to ban others from writing software for their hardware (OpenPCI).

I also find Elbox's attack on VGR News site rather interesting. I've always found http://www.vgr.com/news/ to be inpartial and accurate in its' reporting (they always report source and links, too).

...not to even mention the RDB issue, where they still deny even existance of the destructive routine.

After all this I wonder if developers even piss at Elbox's general direction.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 16 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by DaveP on 16-Aug-2003 17:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (JoannaK):
Well given their journalistic capabilities are far from top notch, I don't think they are particularly qualified to judge.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 17 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 16-Aug-2003 21:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Cosmo):
@Cosmo

> Interesting, if a bit long. For anyone who hasn't made up their mind about
> the parties involved, I'd recommend reading this. I believe Elbox come away
> from this looking rather professional and business-like at all times,
> whereas Chris Hodges comes across like inexperienced petulant child.

My feeling is like yours.
The situation is clear from these messages. On one side there is Chris Hodges, a whimsical kid, on the other side there is a professional company respecting Hodges as a developer and a party to their agreement.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 18 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 16-Aug-2003 21:11 GMT
All this that is published in the platon42' page only shows that Chris Hodges has no reasons to break the agreement with Elbox.

I myself was cheated by Hodges, so I can shed more light from my own experience on the reasons for Hodges' aggresion against Elbox.

The person behind all this is Micheael Bohemer from E3B. That was in my case, too.
E3B produces USB 1.1 cards for Zorro and clockport. These cards cannot compete with Spider cards for any technical parameters.

In my opinion Chris Hodges breaks the agreement with Elbox only to help E3B in selling their overpriced cards.

I also recommend a discussion on this issue in Amiga.org:

version censored by amiga.org moderator:
http://amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2522

original version (backup in my site):
http://jacek.szczurek.w.interia.pl/Poseidon_reg_end.htm

The Amiga.org moderator censored the discussion right after Michael Boehmer from E3B posted there.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 19 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by elshag on 16-Aug-2003 21:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Rat):
Best mr Rat.

Your continuos attacks on Mr Hodges and mr B÷hmer are becoming somewhat tiresome.

Whenever mr Hodges is mentioned you're ready sharp slandering and pissing on him.

Mr Rat, I have some questions for you:
- What is your relationship with Elbox?
- Why are you not posting with your real name? Your statements are quite strong and not really believable if you stay behind a pseudonym.
- Do you understand that when you buy a product you're not entitled for unlimited free upgrades?
- What is your problem with mr B÷hmer? Why do you keep on attacking him?
- What is your problem with mr Hodges? Why do you keep on attacking him?
- Do you have any proof of the E3B / Hodges conspiracy? Even if you post these veiled as your opinion, you really should be ready to back your claims. You could get sued for slander.
- Have you registered your copy of Picasso96 software?
- Do you understand that your attacks on Hodges/B÷hmer could be interpreted the other way around: You try to help Elbox keep on selling their overprized, rebadged, USB hardware and keep on distibuting illegal copies of Hodges' software?
- Could you please put up or shut up?
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 20 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Jools on 16-Aug-2003 22:03 GMT
Well.. I have a problem with elbox. with their support.. ive sent many emails about an issue and they have told me they will look into it. and nothing..

my new 40gb hd wont work in anything other than pio0 mode on their flyer board. not only that. if i configure it in NOSPLIT mode, it forgets this and next time hdtoolbox is loaded its split it into lots of 3.9gb virtual disks.. it works fine on standard a1200 controller. but of course slowly :/

If anyone else knows about compatibility issues please contact me. its a western digital caviar.

please elbox.. help me out!
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 21 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbj°rn Barmen on 16-Aug-2003 22:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Rat):
Yo, there mr. Rat - perhaps you can tell my why Elbox stopped answering my mails about Voodoo5 issues once I had sent them debug info they asked for?
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 22 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbj°rn Barmen on 16-Aug-2003 22:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Kolbj°rn Barmen):
Forgot to mention the problem:

A4000 with latest hippest of chips and A3640 rev 3.2
Mediator 4000Di
Voodoo5 5500 PCI

And all I get is a lousy 600x600, which is garbled most of the time.

But the main point is - Elbox has shown very little interest in helping me, and has not answered my latest mails, allthough I did get a driver update at some point, not that it helped any.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 23 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Niclas A on 16-Aug-2003 23:14 GMT
Don't think i can take any bodys side but THE solution for mediator owners will be AmigaOS 4.

Native USB stack and an Open PCI library.

The only thing that would saden me is if the AmigaOS 4 team doesn't manage to figure out how the mediator board works.. As for the shark, elbox will probobly do there own "hack" on AOS4 and demand the use of there own NDA PCI library to work. But hopefully the Blizzppc card with a Mediator will work.

A big question would be if elbox will write OS4 native drivers that uses OS4 PCI library ?

Maybe if there is a way to make drivers only work for one busboard in OS4... But that would just be stupid.. then we are back to the same crap again...

Time will tell i guess... Hoping for the best.
//Niclas

*Spelling errors not included on purpose* ;)
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 24 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbj°rn Barmen on 16-Aug-2003 23:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Kolbj°rn Barmen):
Sorry, 800x600 ofcourse.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 25 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 17-Aug-2003 02:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Cosmo):
"I believe Elbox come away from this looking rather professional and business-like at all times, whereas Chris Hodges comes across like inexperienced petulant child."

I had a completely different expierence reading that material.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 26 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 17-Aug-2003 03:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (T_Bone):
T Bone said,
> I had a completely different expierence reading that material.

Whew. I'm giving up halfway through, but I'm starting to think they deserve each other!
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 27 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 17-Aug-2003 04:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Joe "Floid" Kanowitz):
I don't know how CH can be blamed for trying to establish a standard that benefits us all, being concerned about punitive code in drivers or trying to protect his work with perfectly reasonable requirements that only Elbox and no other lincensor has a problem with.

As for CH deserving Elbox... why? Did the Picasso96 team deserve them too?
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 28 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Ratty on 17-Aug-2003 06:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Rat):
YEEEHAAA,

Rat, not whipped enough by now?

Really
Annoying
Troll

please, would you get a life?
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 29 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Boehmer on 17-Aug-2003 11:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Rat):
Hi Rat,

ieek ieek iiiek. Scratch. Iiiek ieeek. Krrk. Sniff. IEEEK!!!

Needless to say more.
Michael
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 30 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Doobrey on 17-Aug-2003 14:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Rat):
>In my opinion Chris Hodges breaks the agreement with Elbox only to help E3B in
>selling their overpriced cards.

I take it you`ve never designed, built and sold a Zorro card then Rat?
Sure the Highway is more expensive than the Spider..but then Elbox let someone else carry the cost of developing the Spider, and just changed the EEPROM to give out their own ID. How much would a Spider cost if Elbox had to design it themselves?
For people *without* a PCI busboard, a Highway or Subway(almost forgot the Thylacine!) is a cheaper option.
Funny that Rat, you keep trolling on about how Chris Hodges is conspiring to help E3B..then answer me why he hasn`t stopped support for the Thylacine card??
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 31 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by T.Bailey on 17-Aug-2003 15:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (T_Bone):
Rat:"I believe Elbox come away from this looking rather professional and business-like at all times, whereas Chris Hodges comes across like inexperienced petulant child."

T_Bone:"I had a completely different expierence reading that material."

I agree with T_Bone on this one, Elbox doesn`t come out of this smelling of roses. Hodges was less than professional in some of his mails, but then Poseidon isn`t a full time business for him.

There was one thing that stuck in my mind whilst reading it ..
Elbox said in regards to the P96 driver "Legally, there is no way of effective preventing of creating software, which works together with other software. Before releasing our Voodoo driver, we checked carefully the legal status of this situation."

But they threaten legal action against the developer of the openpci.library !
From Hodges "Benjamin Vernoux, the author of the OpenPCI standard, had already completed his support for the M*d**t*r when he was threatened to be sued, if he left the support code in."

To me, Elbox management seem to be a bunch of arrogant hypocrites, twisting words or failing to answer questions (several times Hodges asked Elbox to specifically quote him about the lies he was supposedly spreading, but they never did) to suit their needs.
Maybe it all comes down to desparation..once OS4 is out,and more people buy an AmigaOne, Elbox is gonna see their sales drop like flies.Maybe they already are, as some people are putting off buying new hardware until 0S4 or the Peg2 arrives.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 32 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Polish hax0r on 17-Aug-2003 15:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (T.Bailey):
legally, Benjamin has every right to release OpenPCI.library for
the Mediator series of boards. whether he'd want to or not would depend on
the support and feedback of users. there is now law to say that you cant use 'software X' or any self-written software on the hardware that you own.

Elbox's issues are that he used technical info that they supplied him
to write his Mediator driver part. well, lets look at it this way

1) count that as support and therefore OpenPCI works well

2) reverse engineer hardware and address settings (not difficult imho)
and release OpenPCI driver - which may be buggy and not solid... which
would make Mediator look crap.

i know which option i would take if I were Elbox....who themselves have
utilised unregistered software for their own means (which, legally, IS
far more dangerous territory)

BlasterX.c Amiga 1 - Windows 0
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 33 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 17-Aug-2003 19:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (elshag):
> Best mr Rat.

Dear Mr elshag,

> Your continuos attacks on Mr Hodges and mr B÷hmer are becoming
> somewhat tiresome.

I am only writing about facts and situations which I faced in contacts with Chris Hodges and Michael Boehmer. If my posts are tiresome for you, you do not have to read them.

> Whenever mr Hodges is mentioned you're ready sharp slandering and pissing
> on him.

This is not true. I am not slandering or pissing anybody. I am only writing about facts.

Chris Hodges cancelled my keys for Poseidon, for which I had paid him 20 EUR. In my opinion, he did it without any reason, which is confirmed with the fact that Chris Hodges cannot give any specific reason for his switching my keys off.

> Mr Rat, I have some questions for you:
> - What is your relationship with Elbox?

My relationship with Elbox is very good. I have many products bought from them and I am satisfied with all of them. I also consider Elbox support as very good, they are always willing to offer help for any problems one may have.

> - Why are you not posting with your real name? Your statements are
> quite strong
> and not really believable if you stay behind a pseudonym.

I do not post with my family name as I use here the nick of Rat.

I have not noticed any requirement here to post under one's name. My nick Rat is a translation of my family name into English. This was used by Chris Hodges several times for public offending me, by the way.

Majority of those who post here use nicknames.
elshag is not your name, I guess. ;-)

If you miss my family name so much, you will find it in the thread in amiga.org, to which I gave the links in my previous comment:

version censored by amiga.org moderator:
http://amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2522

original version (backup in my site):
http://jacek.szczurek.w.interia.pl/Poseidon_reg_end.htm

Still, I doubt if you could properly read my name. ;-)

> - Do you understand that when you buy a product you're not entitled
> for unlimited free upgrades?

Yes, I do. But if someone prepares a free upgrade, which-according to him-consists mostly bugfixes, he must NOT ban access to them to selected clients according to his whims. This is discrimination, contrary to the European law.

You should know that sellers in Europe are bound by guarantee. This case occurred within the guarantee period.

> - What is your problem with mr B÷hmer? Why do you keep on attacking him?

Michael Boehmer attacks me, often in a rude way.

I only pointed out an error in the Algor specs. Michael Boehmer attacked me, and his friend Chris Hodges right after it switched off my key for Poseidon.

Michael Boehmer, instead of admitting that the Algor's description wrongly suggested that Algor is a USB 2.0 standard controller, attacked me and threatened with court. That's his regular game. When he lacks arguments, he attacks users and threatens them with court. It would be good for his to have just a little knowledge of the law.

Recently my posts in amiga.org vanished immediately after a post by Michael Boehmer appeared. His post was also removed, probably so that people reading that thread could not find out who caused removing these posts in the discussion.

> - What is your problem with mr Hodges? Why do you keep on attacking him?

See above.

> - Do you have any proof of the E3B / Hodges conspiracy? Even if you post these
> veiled as your opinion, you really should be ready to back your claims.
> You could get sued for slander.

If you are writing something like this, it would be good for you to know just a bit about the law, too.

> - Have you registered your copy of Picasso96 software?

What does it have in common with this topic?
Just for your curiosity: I paid for P96, as I own a PIV card, which I do not use at present.

> - Do you understand that your attacks on Hodges/B÷hmer could be interpreted
> the other way around: You try to help Elbox keep on selling their overprized, > rebadged, USB hardware

You are repeating the same rubbish that is spread by the Hodges/Boehmer team.

As regards prices for USB cards, the Media Mark in my city offers 5-port Belkin USB 2.0 card based on the same chipset as Spider. It is ca. 73 EUR, that is much more than Spider, which additionally has drivers for Mediator and Amithlon.

Maybe you should consider using the "overprized" name for Algor cards produced by Michael Boehmer--they are of the outdated USB 1.1 standard and they cost ca. 115 EUR.

> hardware and keep on distibuting illegal copies of Hodges' software?

People like you really irritate me. Please, first read e-mails published by Chris Hodges, and you will learn that Elbox has not distributed any illegal copies of Hodges' software.

> - Could you please put up or shut up?

You do not need to read my posts. I am a free person and I can express my opinions on the issues which are interesting to me.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 34 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 17-Aug-2003 19:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (T.Bailey):
@T.Bailey

> Elbox said in regards to the P96 driver "Legally, there is no way
> of effective preventing of creating software, which works together with
> other software. Before releasing our Voodoo driver, we checked carefully
> the legal status of this situation."
>
> But they threaten legal action against the developer of the openpci.library !

You missed the point here.

Elbox has no NDA with P96, and the author of openpci.library signed an NDA with Elbox and received documentation from them for their hardware and for their pci.library.

Titan was to write drivers for pci.libraray, yet instead he used Elbox materials for writing his own openpci library. They are fully entitled to sue him.

> From Hodges "Benjamin Vernoux, the author of the OpenPCI standard, had
> already completed his support for the M*d**t*r when he was threatened to
> be sued, if he left the support code in."

You believe Hodges?
If USB drivers for openpci were ready, they would work with Amithlon and with GRex for A4000. In his own website, the openpci author writes that he completed only 40% of the USB 1.1 driver within the last year.

> To me, Elbox management seem to be a bunch of arrogant hypocrites, twisting
> words or failing to answer questions (several times Hodges asked Elbox
> to specifically quote him about the lies he was supposedly spreading,
> but they never did) to suit their needs.

Where have you seen Elbox accuses Hodges about anything? They do not speak about him at all. He himself has something against them all the time.

Read these published posts and speak later.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 35 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by elshag on 17-Aug-2003 20:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Rat):
First of all: I cut out the useless babbling here, sorry if you feel mistreated because of it.

> My relationship with Elbox is very good. I have many products bought from
> them and I am satisfied with all of them. I also consider Elbox support as
> very good, they are always willing to offer help for any problems one may
> have.

So what about people having problems with Elbox support?
Aren't they for real? Are they lying? Or working for the competition? Or pirates?

>> - Do you understand that when you buy a product you're not entitled
>> for unlimited free upgrades?

> Yes, I do. But if someone prepares a free upgrade, which-according to
> him-consists mostly bugfixes, he must NOT ban access to them to selected
> clients according to his whims. This is discrimination, contrary to the
> European law.

Which law is that exactly? I'd be rather surprised if such law existed.

> You should know that sellers in Europe are bound by guarantee. This case
> occurred within the guarantee period.

As far as I know you were given possibility to get *full refund* and even keep your keyfile and keep using current version of Poseidon. You refused the offer.

>> - What is your problem with mr B÷hmer? Why do you keep on attacking him?
>
> Michael Boehmer attacks me, often in a rude way.

And as a grown adult you keep on striking back. Really mature of you, indeed.

> I only pointed out an error in the Algor specs. Michael Boehmer attacked me,
> and his friend Chris Hodges right after it switched off my key for Poseidon.
>
> Michael Boehmer, instead of admitting that the Algor's description wrongly
> suggested that Algor is a USB 2.0 standard controller

Last time I checked USB 2.0 was changed to cover old USB 1.1 standard. Unless if the page directly claims the controller support high speed (which it does not), it is not misleading or spreading misinformation.

Speaking of which, the high speed USB is not working full speed on Mediator either, so why all this fuzz?

> attacked me and threatened with court.

Maybe you should really be tested in court?

> That's his regular game.

I am sure mr B÷ehmer doesn't agree... But well, does that stop you? No.

> When he lacks arguments, he attacks users and threatens them with court. It
> would be good for his to have just a little knowledge of the law.

Like you had any.

> Recently my posts in amiga.org vanished immediately after a post by Michael
> Boehmer appeared. His post was also removed, probably so that people reading
> that thread could not find out who caused removing these posts in the
> discussion.

Maybe if you would get out of you small world you'd realize there might be other reasons for those postings to disappear. Like you spreading lies and misinformation?

You know, world doesn't rotate around you, even if it at times feels like it.

>> - What is your problem with mr Hodges? Why do you keep on attacking him?
>
> See above.

You didn't answer the question. To be honest I didn't expect you to.

> > - Have you registered your copy of Picasso96 software?
>
> What does it have in common with this topic?
> Just for your curiosity: I paid for P96, as I own a PIV card, which I do not
> use at present.

-- Quote:
Distribution

Picasso96 is freely distributable provided the medium or archive does contain all files of an original Picasso96 distribution archive without modifications and does not contain any other hardware driver which is not approved by the Picasso96 authors. Picasso96 may under no circumstances be a part of a product without the written approval of the Picasso96 authors. This especially concerns the case that some company develops a graphics board and wants to sell it with Picasso96 as the main graphics system (sometimes called "workbench emulation").

Starting July 1st 1998, Picasso96 will be ShareWare. We request DM 30 (or US$ 20, no other currencies, please) from all users that do not own at least one of the graphics boards that come with a Picasso96 licence. At the moment this only applies to the PicassoIV and the Pixel64.
--- End Quote
(http://www.picasso96.cogito.de/Distribution.html)

Picasso IV included the license in the product price. The specific Picasso96 software is licensed for VillageTronics PicassoIV and is not tranferable to another hardware.

I surely hope you will buy 2nd license, or you continue to break the license. And the law.

Pirate.

>> - Do you understand that your attacks on Hodges/B÷hmer could be interpreted
>> the other way around: You try to help Elbox keep on selling their
>> overprized, rebadged, USB hardware

> You are repeating the same rubbish that is spread by the Hodges/Boehmer
> team.

What rubbush exactly? I have no clue what you're talking about.

> Maybe you should consider using the "overprized" name for Algor cards
> produced by Michael Boehmer--they are of the outdated USB 1.1 standard and
> they cost ca. 115 EUR.

USB 2.0 == old USB 1.1.

Also do you realize that Elbox has done zero product development on "Spider" hardware? They're selling other ppl's hardware rebadged. So obviously they don't need to get their development costs back in the price.

115 EUR is likely to be underprise for Algor, considering the development costs.

>> hardware and keep on distibuting illegal copies of Hodges' software?

> People like you really irritate me.

Oh, I'm truly sorry.

What kind of people are we excatly? Maybe we should carry a sign or something?


> Please, first read e-mails published by Chris Hodges, and you will learn that
> Elbox has not distributed any illegal copies of Hodges' software.

I didn't learn that from the emails, but quite the opposite.

Elbox shipped CD-ROMs with Poseidon that didn't meet the license agreement. That's illegal, at least in most civiliced countries.

>> - Could you please put up or shut up?

> You do not need to read my posts. I am a free person and I can express my
> opinions on the issues which are interesting to me.

Heh interesting. Again you try to hide behind this "opinion" veil. You soon have to make up your mind, either these babblings are your opinions or they're facts.

I'm waiting interested which one it will be.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 36 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 17-Aug-2003 21:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Rat):
About the USB driver part...
You're talking about OHCI drivers... UHCI ones are ready for over a year...
How am I sure? I use it on the Pegasos... Using Mice, Thumbdrives etc...
Like ANY Pegasos user...
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 37 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by JoŰl EHRET on 18-Aug-2003 02:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Rat):
Reread carefully : Mediator support for Open PCI was ready long time
ago, NOT OHCI drivers for OpenPCI.. In fact, MEdiator was the first
busboard supported in Open PCI, I tested it for titan...

@+
JE
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 38 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Ratty on 18-Aug-2003 05:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (elshag):
Hehe, so now we have a public admittance of Really Annoying Troll (Rat) that he does use a pirated copy of P96. Sweet. Thanks for pointing this out, man :) .. must bookmark this thread for future reference whenever Trolly does come up again :-D

And now, let's *plonk* the troll and no more feed it. Done :)

Pirates stink.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 39 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Boehmer on 18-Aug-2003 05:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Rat):
Hi Rat,

ieeeekkk iekk scrtch iekkk ieekk. Ieeekkkk. Iek iek iek ieeekkk.
Krk iek iekkk ieeeek. Ieeek ieekkk iek IEKKK !
Ieek iek iek iekkkk krkk ieeek.
Scrat ieek iek ieeeekkk iek iek iek iekkk.

Best regards, Michael

[Translation for those not speaking Ratish:]

Read the post of Amiga.org's moderator Thargan: http://amiga.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2522
Maybe the sentence "DO NOT SLANDER MODERATORS" gives you a hint for Amiga.org's decision for treating Rat this way...

Comment on Mediamarkt: try eBay search with "NEC PCI USB 2.0" and you will see how much these cards cost in *real* life. I bought two cards there for about 12 EUR each including shipment (4.70 EUR). And the seller still makes his money at this price....
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 40 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Phill on 18-Aug-2003 07:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Rat):
> Yes, I do. But if someone prepares a free upgrade, which-according to him-
> consists mostly bugfixes, he must NOT ban access to them to selected clients
> according to his whims.

AFAIK the product you paid for still works, it's just the free upgrades. Now I don't know about you, but new features & bug fixes aren't a legal requirement. Otherwise someone would sue the arse off Microsoft, Visual Studio.NET 2003 is basically a bug fix for the 2002 version, but you have to pay for it.

> This is discrimination, contrary to the European law.

It would be discrimination if he cancelled your keys because you were black/gay/french etc. By pissing him off you don't really have a leg to stand on. Now it might be that you are right and he did it because of things you said about his friends products, you seem to spout out about it alot so assume thats correct. Does that make you happier?

> Michael Boehmer, instead of admitting that the Algor's description wrongly
> suggested that Algor is a USB 2.0 standard controller

That is actually in accordance with the USB specs ( unfortunately ), they said they did it to reduce confusion. Apparently there were people that didn't know that a USB 2.0 device would work with a USB 1.1 port. Take it up with them, there are loads of people that have slagged them off for it. However it is so well known a problem that you shouldn't assume a USB 2.0 port can handle high speed transfers. IMHO it ought to be pointed out in the product documentation, like hard drives that don't use the same calculation for gigabytes as the rest of the world or monitors that include the bezel in the size.

You need to be objective. To be honest, moaning here is just making your position worse.

Phill
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 41 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 18-Aug-2003 18:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (T_Bone):
T-Bone said,

> I don't know how CH can be blamed for trying to establish a standard
> that benefits us all, being concerned about punitive code in drivers
> or trying to protect his work with perfectly reasonable requirements
> that only Elbox and no other lincensor has a problem with.

This is meant as no insult to Chris, I'm just not a big fan of standards that require paid licensing in general. What does amuse me is the way the conversation opens with challenges and argument over the hardware before anything was straightened out in the business deal.

The requirements were reasonable, but seem like they could've been better-communicated or better thought-out, as it seems he was still finalizing them at the time negotiations opened. As I say, I gave up before we got to the point that leaves us in today's situation, Elbox certainly don't smell like roses, and when I get back to suckering for punishment I'll see exactly what happened to create this $20 mess.

> As for CH deserving Elbox... why? Did the Picasso96 team deserve them
> too?

I didn't pay attention back then, and Elbox's side of the story in there does make me want to go back and see what the hell did happen... again, next time I want a headache.

In any case, none of this is an excuse for potentially-destructing drivers or similar PR/standardization blunders. As a hardware company (and indeed, the one with the most popular PCI solution out there, from what I can see), I think they should take the high road, GPL their own implementations, and bask in the glow of Ethical Correctness while selling lots of hardware and taking control of the standards (again, ethically clean - 'here's the code, do as thou wilt,' but who's going to do a full reimplementation when open source exists?) that other manufacturers will have to follow.

Really, it's fear of a few morons buying generic USB adaptors that created the whole possible-destruction mess, but the Spider practically *has* price parity (okay, 100% markup, but again, no worse than Belkin at CompUSA), so the only people who'd go out of their way to work around the restrictions are the poor and jerks who would do everything they can not to buy the products anyway. Better to have 80 satisfied customers than 100 pissed off at you, right? Imagine where the support would stand if Elbox were in a situation to accuse others of violating the GPL, vs. others accusing Elbox of violating their licenses! :) (...and if someone else did ship a generic PCI USB solution using Elbox code, "Bah, they're riding on the work Elbox funded, buy the original and support the developers.")
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 42 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 18-Aug-2003 19:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Joe "Floid" Kanowitz):
> This is meant as no insult to Chris, I'm just not a big fan of standards that > require paid licensing in general.

Just to get things clear: You don't have to pay a licence fee to write a standard low-level driver. However, the *use* of my software (Poseidon USB stack with it's libraries and class drivers) has to be paid -- either by the user or by the hardware vendor.

You might be right that the communication could have started differently. But notice that the negotiations were lead with a different person than the one I had the specs argument with. Anyway, I *offered* Elb*x to write a driver for Poseidon, said they were free to do so, but at no point I *asked* or *requested* them to do this (as they often state it).

I think you should read at least the last two or three sent mails, to better understand the situation today.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 43 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 18-Aug-2003 21:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (elshag):
@elshag

> So what about people having problems with Elbox support?

You've mixed up companies.

Problems concern clients from Matay or DCE, who have already practically dscontinued supporting their products. Their clients have nobody to complain about, as no-one is interested in their problems.

With Elbox the situation is different. IMHO Elbox support works very well.

A few weeks ago I read about a user who complained in the Polish Mediator list that Elbox had not responded to all his messages. Then it turned out that he had sent over 120 messages on various issues in the last year ;-) He was responded to majority of them, but not to all. It shows the 'problem' scale.

> Aren't they for real? Are they lying? Or working for the competition? Or pirates?

Quite a long time ago Elbox informed that they had sold over 100,000 items in the Amiga market. With this scale of operations, there will always be a few person who are not satisfied with something.

I myself cannot complain. Those products by Elbox that I have, work very nice and Elbox respond to my messages on the next day or earlier.

BTW. It's very difficult to compare the scale of Elbox operations with any other company active now in Amiga market. Some (like Genesi) are happy that they have sold several hundred pieces of their products, others (e.g. E3B) say that the series of products sold by them are two-digits (<100).

> Which law is that exactly? I'd be rather surprised if such law existed.

I do not want to teach you law here, but you can ask Hodges about the case in progress against him in the federation of consumer protection.

> As far as I know you were given possibility to get *full refund* and even
> keep your keyfile and keep using current version of Poseidon. You refused the
> offer.

The 'offer' did not say a word about using the current version of Poseidon, and it was full of arrogant comments against me.

Fortunately sellers in Europe do not have the right to take back the goods bought by their clients just out of their whims.

>> Michael Boehmer attacks me, often in a rude way.

> And as a grown adult you keep on striking back. Really mature of you, indeed.

No, I have never offended him personally. I never made fun of his name. I do not go as low as his level.

Just read his posts in this thread, they prove his infantile approach best.

> Last time I checked USB 2.0 was changed to cover old USB 1.1 standard.
> Unless if the page directly claims the controller support high speed
> (which it does not), it is not misleading or spreading misinformation.

Even in the PC market, where there is a lot of marketing cheating, companies do not go as far as to sell a computer with USB 1.1 ports and advertise it as having USB 2.0-compiliant ports.

The names you are referring to concern peripherals, not USB host controllers.

> You didn't answer the question. To be honest I didn't expect you to.

I did respond to your question. That you have not understood is not my problem.

> I surely hope you will buy 2nd license, or you continue to break the license.

I know this licence quite well and I do not break it.

> Pirate.

Could you please leave this name for yourself.

I have not seen anybody in the Mediator or Higway lists with the 'elshag' nick.

If you are so much interested in my personal data, which I have given, why don't you introduce yourself?

You are a Mediator user. Are you a Spider user? Have you registered the Poseidon stack?

> 115 EUR is likely to be underprise for Algor, considering the development costs.

It's clear that the worse a thing is, the more expensive it has to be. The producer must draw profits to pay for his learning :-) It's a rule that those with less knowledge and skills shout more about their costs.

Good that Boehmer does not make these cards of wood, then their price would be a nightmare. ;-)

>> Please, first read e-mails published by Chris Hodges, and you will learn that
>> Elbox has not distributed any illegal copies of Hodges' software.

> I didn't learn that from the emails, but quite the opposite.
> Elbox shipped CD-ROMs with Poseidon that didn't meet the license agreement.

Yeah? So what version did Elbox put on their CD-ROMs according to you?

I have such a disk and I know its content.

They put there the same unregistered version, which was available in Aminet and in the Hodges' website.

> That's illegal, at least in most civiliced countries.

What is illegal? Observing agreements?

First read their agreement and then speak or you will make fun of yourself otherwise.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 44 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Rat on 18-Aug-2003 21:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
> About the USB driver part...
> You're talking about OHCI drivers... UHCI ones are ready for over a year...

We talk here about drivers being written by Benjamin Vernoux (OHCI), not by VFD (UHCI).

If you have come to speak here, why don't you apologise to me for your false imputations against me in the thread:
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1058775692&category=news&start=51#message85

Cannot you afford being a person of honour?
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 45 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 18-Aug-2003 23:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Chris Hodges):
Chris wrote,
> > This is meant as no insult to Chris, I'm just not a big fan of
> > standards that require paid licensing in general.

> Just to get things clear: You don't have to pay a licence fee to
> write a standard low-level driver. However, the *use* of my software
> (Poseidon USB stack with it's libraries and class drivers) has to
> be paid -- either by the user or by the hardware vendor.

Just FWIW, I noticed, and could see where it was going from there. Still saving the 'ending' for a less stressful day. ;)

Now, for the sake of argument, if they'd had their own stack and released it GPL... You wouldn't find it joyous, but you could be arguing back and forth about bringing the interfaces in line instead right now, right? :) Talking hypothetical competing stacks, since driver GPLing can only be a benefit from your position, I think.

I'm also amused that every attempt to standardize this community manages to somehow fork it more... (Just observing the general case, no finger-pointing... I think it's part of the 'Amiga curse.' :))
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 46 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 18-Aug-2003 23:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Rat):
Rat said,

> Even in the PC market, where there is a lot of marketing cheating,
> companies do not go as far as to sell a computer with USB 1.1 ports
> and advertise it as having USB 2.0-compiliant ports.

Actually, that's exactly what they've been caught doing. You must not keep up with The Register. :)

http://theregister.co.uk/content/archive/31349.html
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/18/2025210
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/24/2148248

The USB Forum 'clarified' their stance, but not before some major-brand PC equipment (weren't Toshiba laptops an example?) was oversold as such.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 47 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Boehmer on 19-Aug-2003 05:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Phill):
Hi Phill,

> IMHO it ought to be pointed out in the product documentation, like hard
> drives that don't use the same calculation for gigabytes as the rest of the
> world or monitors that include the bezel in the size.

I think printing it in bold letters on both webpage and documentation should fulfill this requirement of you.

But, as night came, rats and trolls were at work again. So let's do some analysis. Take the time and read Mr. Rat's comments (even if it is a pain in the ass, but hey, we want to learn something):

All his comments are composed of:

- personal attacks (#43, Pirate "Could you please leave this name for yourself", #43, "It's clear that the worse a thing is, the more expensive it has to be"; #43, "It's a rule that those with less knowledge and skills...")

- allegations without proofs (#18, "the person behind all this"; #33, "Michael Boehmer attacked me, and his friend Chris Hodges right after it switched off my key"; #33, "my post was removed... his post also was removed, so that people could not find out who caused this"; #43, "not even in the PC market companies go as far")

- opinions given as "facts" (#33, "I am only writing about facts..."; #33, "I am only writing about facts.")

- facts out of contents (#33, Media Markt pricing for NEC cards; #43, number of sold products of E3B)

- "being the poor victim" statements (#33, "I am a free person and can express my opinions"; #43, process against Chris Hodges)

What we miss here is answers to questions he can't give (or doesn't want to, as they might not be in his way):

- banning on Amiga.Org: slandering moderators on a public forum and being banned for it is not a real highlight in one's life ?
- real market pricing for NEC USB cards ?
- his own knownledge on hardware design ?
- "commenting" anonymously here ?
- being not a trusted user here at ann.lu ?

Now count these things together and reread the postings of Mr. Rat.
For sure, you will find similar compositions in all his comments.

Michael

P.S.: Sorry, Mr. Rat: ieeekkk iek iek skrt ieeek IEK. Iekk ieeek iekkk iek iek iek. Grunt. Snorr. Ieek iekk iekk.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 48 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Hodges on 19-Aug-2003 05:55 GMT
I wonder if I should set up another page, next to the soap opera: "The Lies of a Rat -- A psychoanalytic case study of pathological pseudologia phantastica."... Nah, would be a waste of time and it would only yield to "No!! You are [x]!", whenever a certain vermin runs out of facts and arguments.
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 49 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Burstr÷m on 19-Aug-2003 07:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Rat):
> I myself cannot complain. Those products by Elbox that I have, work very nice and Elbox respond to my messages on the next day or earlier.

Good for you. But you are not the only person on this earth. Just because your support has been good doesn't prove that this is
the way everybody is treated.

>BTW. It's very difficult to compare the scale of Elbox operations with any other company active now in Amiga market. Some (like Genesi) are happy that they have sold several hundred pieces of their products, others (e.g. E3B) say that the series of products sold by them are two-digits (<100).

Hm, why would the number of units sold have to do anything with the level of support you give? Oh, wait Elbox probably sold too many
units without budgeting for support for all its customers. Now that's discusting.

>Fortunately sellers in Europe do not have the right to take back the goods bought by their clients just out of their whims.

Nobody took anything back from you. You never bought Poseidon with unlimited upgrades. You get what you paid for, nothing more,
nothing less. Now, if you feel angry that other people got more, who cares? You got what you paid for. Period!

>Just read his posts in this thread, they prove his infantile approach best.

Yup, you have a point there, but it still doesn't disqualify his points.

>Even in the PC market, where there is a lot of marketing cheating, companies do not go as far as to sell a computer with USB 1.1 ports and advertise it as having USB 2.0-compiliant ports.

Lol! There are no ISA USB2.0 controllers available and very few PCI 1.1 host controllers available, so this is no problem.
However, the supplier of the Algor chips were the ones who defined the features of the chip. E3B simply copied their datasheet.
And it _CLEARLY_ states that there is no USB2.0 HiSpeed support. Now, could you come back after you have harassed their product enginners
about this and tell us their response.

> I know this licence quite well and I do not break it.

"The specific Picasso96 software is licensed for VillageTronics PicassoIV and is not tranferable to another hardware"

what part of 'not transferable' is it that you don't understand?

>It's clear that the worse a thing is, the more expensive it has to be. The producer must draw profits to pay for his learning :-) It's a rule that those with less knowledge and skills shout more about their costs.

Hm, now, could you come up with a PCB design that including components would be manufactured for around 40 EUR in volumes of 100s. Hm, didn't think
could so now stop beeing an ashole pretending you know anything about hardware design and product development

> They put there the same unregistered version, which was available in Aminet and in the Hodges' website.

Hm what part of copyright is it that you don't understand? You know, copyright is something that protects the owner of a work, not
allow any scumbag like Elbox (yes, I did too verify the RDB trashing code and that's why I call them scumbags, like I would do with
anyone creating malicious code or viruses) to copy anything they like just because someone else has the right to copy it.

> What is illegal? Observing agreements?

If you read the agreement, then you notice that Chris reserved the right to revoke Elbox rights at any time. And he used that right.
If there was a written contract I am quite sure it would have been in there too.
No sane person would ever get into an agreement without an option to get out of it. And the fact that Chris's software got associated
with RDB trashing code and other things made it pretty obvious that he could use that right. Besides, Elbox never paid Chris anything,
so I don't understand why they are so anal about this. If they have this USB stack of theirs which would be practically finished,
why don't they release it then instead of parasiting on other peoples work?

regards,
Stefan Burstr÷m
[Rant] Elb*x soap opera published : Comment 50 of 57ANN.lu
Posted by jools on 19-Aug-2003 12:36 GMT
Elbox support is ok so long as your problem is simple and it doesnt involve the fact they may have bugs/problems in their hardware/software. It seems to me, if its slightly complex they will try to avoid it. Thats why i still have a HD i can't use on my elbox flyer. Thats also why I have a ZorroIV busboard in the cupboard (Never solved compatibility problems with it and a couple of cards), and its also why i have no plans of spending any more money on elbox hardware.

I also dont like their way of dealing with things. Malicious code in drivers is
unacceptable. Additionally, i think modifying a usb card slightly and only offering support for the modified card is not very fair. Sure its business, but what is the point of providing a PCI busboard advertised as ".... allowing expansion of Amiga with all kinds of industry standard hardware products like graphic, sound, network, USB, TV tuner, ISDN and MPEG-2 hardware decoder PCI cards." if you dont have any choice where you buy the industry standard cards. its obvious they did all this to make a few extra bucks. the tale of hardware issues with standard usb cards sounds like nonsense.

Next time i pass through krakow i think i will pay them a visit. perhaps if i take my a1200 they will give me some real support!
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