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[News] "No deal, no settlement" says AmigaANN.lu
Posted on 21-Aug-2003 06:01 GMT by SimplePPC299 comments
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Amiga Inc. officially denies existence of AmigaDE deal with Thendic/Genesi. http://www.amiga.com/corporate/082003-mcewen.shtml The recent "news" by Genesi that a deal or settlement was reached in the ongoing lawsuit between Thendic/Genesi and Amiga Inc. is officially denied by Bill McEwen. There is no deal to port AmigaDE nor AmigaOS 4.0 to the Pegasos.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 51 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Aug-2003 08:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Anonymous):
Say what you like, but if the rightsholder of a product says they'll not port it to another system, then i would bloody hell believe them, after all, it *is* their product to begin with.

Cheers
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 52 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Jules on 21-Aug-2003 08:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Lord Baldrick):
> (Maybe Amiga will have a best seller once again ..... In a different form!!)

Very much doubt it. It'd be just a tad too repetitive IMO :-)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 53 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Aug-2003 08:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
A public beta/alpha is not a release, remember? Or are you saying that AmigaOS4 is released?
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 54 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Aug-2003 08:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Jules):
Amiga, the SOAP that never died! ;)

Cheers
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 55 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 21-Aug-2003 08:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (DaveP):
> The EULA for 3.5 and 3.9 clearly prohibit installation on non Amiga branded systems Yeah, sure. Maybe in USA but not here where I live.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 56 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Tryo on 21-Aug-2003 08:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (samface):
There is a public beta of OS4? (you moron)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 57 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 21-Aug-2003 08:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (samface):
Hm, where can I find this *PUBLIC* beta of OS4?
Argh... OS4 is in PRIVATE beta. Selected prople (even if they are 100s) that
have signed NDAs test it. MorphOS was released publically.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 58 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Aug-2003 08:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Tryo):
Well, not publicly "downloadable", but exisiting and publicly demonstrated. However, the question wasn't if it was downloadable or not, the question is if a beta/alpha counts as a release or not.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 59 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Aug-2003 08:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
If I give you a chain for a bicycle and call it an early alpha version of my bicycle product, would you call my bicycle released?
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 60 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Emeric SH on 21-Aug-2003 08:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (ID4 - tHe SuRvIvOr -):
"Hummmm, I remember Bill Buck telling that Bill McEwen isn't Amiga Inc. CEO, he talked about a bussines card with another new CEO too. Where is the new AMIGA CEO Sr. Bill Buck?"

Where is Amiga Inc?
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 61 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Aug-2003 08:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (Emeric SH):
They're at 209.15.183.102

Cheers
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 62 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by cahva on 21-Aug-2003 08:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Amon_Re):
*clap clap*
You must be proud of that comment.. doh!
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 63 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Aug-2003 08:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (Emeric SH):
If you want to get in contact with Amiga Inc., see:
http://www.amiga.com/corporate/
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 64 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Aug-2003 08:50 GMT
People can come to my place at 62.236.74.5. Lets have a face to face talk and drink a cup of coffee
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 65 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Aug-2003 08:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Anonymous):
That would be somewhere near Lahti, Finland. :-P
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 66 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 21-Aug-2003 09:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Anonymous):
LOL
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 67 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by AFOIA on 21-Aug-2003 09:02 GMT
>I should also like to remind the community, and those users
>of the Amiga Operating System, that the End User License
>Agreement clearly states that the license for use is only
>valid, on Amiga branded machines. Therefore if the Amiga
>operating system is being used on a non-Amiga branded
>machine the use would be prohibited.

Pretty funny: you pay the product and you can use on your
machine, whatever it is. Surely BSA will not hit you
for using an product you payed and you have a licence for.
Let's not speak about Amiga Inc who haven't even
money pay their landlord.

And by the way, almost any computer user has some pirated
stuff (mp3, roms for emulators, games and so on), so does
Bill REALLY beleive that who will buy OS4 will not use it on
his computer (whatever it is) because a piece of paper says
so? Let's be serious...
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 68 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Aug-2003 09:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Peter Marlow):
Cloanto has Amiga license so shut up!!
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 69 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by AmigaFan on 21-Aug-2003 09:09 GMT
go amiga go! microsoft sux, genesis sux, amiga rules forever!

first amiga inc must finish amiga os 4 and get it out soon! then the world may know! amiga inc is going to rule with amiga one and amiga os 4!

god bless mcewen and amiga!
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 70 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Aug-2003 09:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (AFOIA):
For christ sake, it's a reminder of what the EULA says, that's all. He said it for straightening out the confusion caused by certain actions of another party.

HINT: Bill Buck did not only say that both AmigaOS4 and the AmigaDE is currently in the works for beeing ported to the Pegasos, he also talked about bundling AmigaOS3.9 with the Pegasos.

You see, he said it in a certain context and it was meant for that context only. Taking things out of it's context and analyzing the exact wording and what it could mean like that is pointless and causes nothing but unneccessary confusion.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 71 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by hooligan/dcs on 21-Aug-2003 09:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (samface):
@Samface
"I'm sorry but it is quite obvious that the "blue camp" is getting rather desperate and will try every dirty trick in the book in order to get out of this mess."

Sorry to break your illusion, but the "blue camp" has nothing to be afraid of, let alone desperate for immoral actions. MOS1.4 was released and is praised everywhere. Things are moving and moving with good pace. Pegasos2 will come eventually, maybe not in septemper, but eventually.

Situation with the "other side":
- AmigaOne-users are somewhere.. haven't seen much around. That, or they are too shamed to be public with their purchase?
- No other OS than Linux on NG Amiga's. Not that there is anything wrong with Linux.
- There is no real mothercompany.
- There are only talks of what will happen in future. Sadly this would require funds and Amiga Inc has less it than I.
- No good news about AI since Jesus was crusified.
- Nothing seems to be happening.
- + many other issues

There are issues regarding Pegasos, Genesi and MorphOS aswell, but definetely I'd be more worried if I was on the "other camp".
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 72 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Aug-2003 09:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (cahva):
I see humor is lost to the dense & stupid...

Cheers
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 73 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Aug-2003 09:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (samface):
Yeah I thought that you would check that out.. And you are correct. But if I change to use some proxy in Brasil you would say that I live in near Rio :)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 74 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 21-Aug-2003 09:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (hooligan/dcs):
"- AmigaOne-users are somewhere.. haven't seen much around. That, or they are too shamed to be public with their purchase?"

They don't post here. Its nothing to do with shame, its just that the vast majority of us find all the flames and bitching boring. We have private lists and forums.

"- No other OS than Linux on NG Amiga's. Not that there is anything wrong with Linux."

Oh yes there is :) I can't wait to ditch it for OS4.


"- There is no real mothercompany."

There is a support network in place.


"- There are only talks of what will happen in future. Sadly this would require funds and Amiga Inc has less it than I."

Having a roadmap is a bad thing?!
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 75 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Aug-2003 09:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (An Cr):
I sure believe what is written on official page rather than what is said in unofficial forums. So until proven otherwise BBRV lied badly :P
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 76 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Aug-2003 09:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (AmigaFan):
Genesi doesn't suck, well, i seriously hope Bill doesn't ;)

Genesi has some very bright people working for them, you (and i) might not need/want their products but the company doesn't suck.

Bill Buck however, is an annoying little bugger tho

Cheers
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 77 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Aug-2003 09:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Lord Baldrick):
LOL :D
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 78 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 21-Aug-2003 09:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (samface):
> HINT: Bill Buck did not only say that both AmigaOS4 and the AmigaDE is> currently in the works for beeing ported to the Pegasos, he also talked> about bundling AmigaOS3.9 with the Pegasos. a) Bundling legal copies of OS3.9 with Pegasos is not illegal.b) If I buy legal copy of OS4 and it runs on my Pegasos, too bad for you. It is not illegal.c) AmigaDE for Pegasos looks suspicious.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 79 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Aug-2003 09:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (hooligan/dcs):
You summed it up nicely, and i can agree with most of it, but lets leave Jesus out of this ok? ;)

Basicly, the trolls & idiots on both sides should start listening more to eachother instead of covering up their 5 senses whenever something happens.

Fact is, Bill Buck probably was prematurely about that 'announcement', and Ainc just said that there wasn't an agreement yet.

*IT IS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD*

Unfortunatly, wether or not Genesi retreats that statement, they lost 'figure' with it, wich is a shame, it's been awhile since that happened (a month or 2 i guess).

What needs to happen is the following:

AOS4 released to the public & Ainc getting some cashflow going

That's it basicly :) And i'm sure AOS4 will be released :)

Cheers
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 80 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Aug-2003 09:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (itix):
Can we please drop this legal/ilegal shit & leave it for the lawyers?

Cheers
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 81 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 21-Aug-2003 09:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Amon_Re):
@Amon_re

> Tigger, Ainc own the right to AOS3.9, if H&P are in breach with that
> agreement, that's their problem, but that *DOES NOT* give you the right
> to bicker over their rights.

There are different EULAs in operation. McEwen is correct regarding the one with the stand-alone AmigaOS distributions, but not about the Cloanto one (who only have OS 3.1 anyway, and so that's irrelevant to the copies of 3.5 and 3.9 Genesi say they want to bundle), and not about the one distributed with the AmigaOS XL package, which was modified with Amiga Inc's agreement to remove that particular clause.

> As for this being a lie... As far as i see they told the truth

The problem is WE DON'T KNOW. It _might_ be the truth, or it _might_ be a lie. There is no public evidence one way or the other, and I hereby challenge all parties to supply public evidence backing their claims that the issue is resolved or ongoing. If it's resolved, let's have the details (since BBRV said they will be in the public domain soon anyway), and if it's not resolved, let's have confirmation of the court hearing dates where this will be contested (and confirmation that Mr McEwen will be there, for that matter).

So many people are telling lies and half truths, that it's becoming damn hard to believe ANYONE in this community.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 82 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 21-Aug-2003 09:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Ben Yoris):
@Ben Yoris

> And the circus show goes on...
>
> Stop the disaster please.

I'm with you Ben.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 83 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Aug-2003 09:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (itix):
>b) If I buy legal copy of OS4 and it runs on my Pegasos, too bad for you. It
>is not illegal.

Well, it would surely be a breach of the EULA. However, wether that is illegal or not is for a court in your country to decide, not you. It's a good thing that they inform us of this though, since it is (AFAIK) illegal in certain countries/juristictions.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 84 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by terminills on 21-Aug-2003 09:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Bill Hoggett):
@Bill Hoggett

"So many people are telling lies and half truths, that it's becoming damn hard to believe ANYONE in this community."

I agree with that 100
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 85 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 21-Aug-2003 09:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Bill Hoggett):
%You have a point there Bill, i guess we'll find out sooner or later, but i think it's save to asume that at this time there is no settlement on paper that both parties have agreed to.

Cheers
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 86 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by An Cr on 21-Aug-2003 09:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (samface):
Posted by samface (131.116.254.200) on 21-Aug-2003 08:51:19
In Reply to Comment 34:
Dismissing everything they say because they once upon a time stated inaccurate estimates of product delivery is not only short-sighted but arrogant. May I remind you of Ralph Schmidts promise to deliver "AmigaOS on PPC in 2000"?
_

Samface. Somewhere in your head, there IS something, believe me.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 87 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Aug-2003 09:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Bill Hoggett):
I'm sorry but a public statement from the company owning the trademark that no agreement regarding a license of their intellectual property has been reached is the best proof you are ever going to get. Furthermore, even Rich Woods confirmed that no documents of any settlement in this court case are available. Now, while considering this, what do you have to back up Bill Buck's claims? Or is this "we need proof" condition one sided?
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 88 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Aug-2003 09:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (An Cr):
Yes, it's called a brain. Contact you local biology professor for more info.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 89 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 21-Aug-2003 10:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (samface):
Dunno about OS4 but about 3.5, are you saying that the registration card (for example), encourages you to break the eula? :-)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 90 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 21-Aug-2003 10:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (samface):
@samface

I'm not backing up Bill Buck's claims. I'm simply saying that BOTH sides should be disbelieved until such a time as their statements can be verified.

I've read outright lies from Amiga Inc before, so just because they have made a public statement on their site does not make it "the truth".

OTOH, I have no reason to believe Bill Buck either, as I've seen him play these "games" before.

The only safe thing to to in the current climate is believe NO ONE.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 91 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by BrianK on 21-Aug-2003 10:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (Bill Hoggett):
Spamface is best to be ignored. If you don't tease the dog with the stick the dog will continue to sleep.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 92 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Kolbjørn Barmen on 21-Aug-2003 10:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Alkis - Yes it does!

I will scan both the OS3.5 and OS3.9 EULA later tonight and put them online (and thereby breaking some certain copyright "laws" as well, I guess)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 93 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by itix on 21-Aug-2003 10:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (samface):
> Well, it would surely be a breach of the EULA. Some text written in english wont hold in the court. Consumer protection laws are on my side.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 94 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 21-Aug-2003 10:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (samface):
"Dismissing everything they say because they once upon a time stated inaccurate estimates of product delivery is not only short-sighted but arrogant. May I remind you of Ralph Schmidts promise to deliver "AmigaOS on PPC in 2000"?"

He did. It was really AmigaOS on PPC such as the demo of OS4 done recently (running the workbench on emulation on top of the PPC kernel, having PPC native apps running at the same time of 68k emulated ones etc)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 95 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 21-Aug-2003 10:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (Kolbjørn Barmen):
Well, I'm reading it right now, that's why I said that:-)
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 96 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 21-Aug-2003 10:54 GMT
OK, according to a post by BBRV on amiga.org, Bill McEwen is telling the truth in the executive statement.

The court case Genesi brought against Amiga Inc is NOT decided.

There is no agreement between the parties except for the disputed contract.


What appears to have triggered the posting on Genesi's website is that Amiga Inc's counsel have dropped a counter-claim they had lodged against Genesi, and Genesi interpreted this as a total victory, which remains to be seen.

IMHO the information on the website is misleading, and deliberately so. Black marks against Genesi in my book, though Amiga Inc are still way ahead in the "black marks" race.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 97 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Aug-2003 11:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Christophe Decanini):
That's a demonstration, not a delivery. Otherwise I could say that AmigaOS4 has been delivered too.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 98 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by samface on 21-Aug-2003 11:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (Bill Hoggett):
So, both parties has finally agreed to what was said on Amiga.com then? I hate to say this... no I don't, I enjoy telling you all:

Told you so.
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 99 of 299ANN.lu
In reply to Comment 97 (samface):
Message removed by Christophe Decanini for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: insult
"No deal, no settlement" says Amiga : Comment 100 of 299ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 21-Aug-2003 11:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (samface):
BS !!

Anybody could download MOS0.1 and use it for whatever he wanted.

Try that with the OS4-beta.
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