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[News] Amiga Vs Thendic CaseANN.lu
Posted on 16-Mar-2004 05:47 GMT by Not Rich Woods (Edited on 2004-03-16 23:27:54 GMT by Christian Kemp)20 comments
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Amiga has filed an Appeal to their recently failed court case. Amongst the respondents for Amiga inc are Garry Hare and Francis Charig. Read it over on Amigaworld.net:http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1307 The second part of the news item's title, "Amiga Files Appeal!" has been removed to avoid confusion, since it seems this was not the correct legal term.
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 1 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by Graham_nli on 16-Mar-2004 04:57 GMT
Quite an impressive set of stuff there, from what I've read. Decent language and layout, lots of evidence, well written - this isn't something that was done overnight.

If accepted as valid, it does state that Bill Buck lied to the judge in gentler language. Several times.

Could be interesting.
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 2 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by Mikey_C on 16-Mar-2004 05:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Graham_nli):
That! is an understatement!

;-)

/me goes off and gets a very large bucket of popcorn.

Mikey C
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 3 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by JKD on 16-Mar-2004 06:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Mikey_C):
Ah f**k this, wake me when it's all over and AOS4.x is actually released. The tension level is way too high to participate...

Steve
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 4 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by ujb on 16-Mar-2004 09:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (JKD):
Well, there is the risk your sleep will last quite long...
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 5 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 16-Mar-2004 09:46 GMT
ANOTHER hand full of soap opera ... enough activity to stand a few more months without AOS4 ...
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 6 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by Steffen Haeuser on 16-Mar-2004 10:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (priest):
priest: *Where* do you exactly read that OS4 development would halt or anything like that ? I can assure you that this is in *no way* the case... and a new owner having lots of money and such is good news I'd say :)

Steffen
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 7 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 16-Mar-2004 13:18 GMT
Muhahahahaha.
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 8 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by Stevey on 16-Mar-2004 13:28 GMT
LOL, I thought bbrv shooting his mouth off would end up being used against him. What a foolish person.
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 9 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 16-Mar-2004 14:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Steffen Haeuser):
Progress on development is not some simple 'binary' logic (going/stopped).. There are a lot of alternativies on how development project can go on.

IMHO It's not question if this OS4 making would be stopped alltogether as it has it's small but highly loyal woluntary support. With this low-budget slow progress project and extended timelines it has slown down from original estimations and lead to years-long waiting and loss of client base. Way I see it's in direct danger of becoming yet-another hobby project that has no commercial value in it.

Note: I'm not saying volyntary work would not be nice and preciated, but as a closed source project OS4 is supposed to be commercially valid and to offer decent pay to those people working for it.. And on that aspect I can't see much hope in it.
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 10 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 16-Mar-2004 14:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Steffen Haeuser):
But Steffen, don't you find it interesting that the source code to OS4 was sold by Amiga Inc to (indirectly) KMOS about a year ago --- when by all prior reports, Hyperion's work on OS4 was to be Hyperion's, and AI were to have a buyback option for that code? This would imply that AI exercised that buyback option prior to the event, which appears a somewhat strange thing for them to have done while they had outstanding court orders to pay taxes, rent and wages...Similarly, one wonders how KMOS managed to buy the source code for OS 3.9, which H&P have been holding hostage for a long time now....Too many things that smell fishy, too few that don't. IMHO, of course.
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 11 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by Ketzer on 16-Mar-2004 14:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Bernie Meyer):
Itic(?) and KMOS explicity honor the contract between Amiga Inc., Eyetech and Hyperion.
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 12 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 16-Mar-2004 14:58 GMT
MarkTime is Robert Dupuy of Nashville, TN.

I have ZERO desire to be any part of this case, but since they put my post into evidence....sigh

not that I would be a good witness for Amiga, Inc.... they seem to have a lot of 'renegade' qualities about them, that would have to be a sticking point, I would think.
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 13 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 16-Mar-2004 15:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Bernie Meyer):
This definitely sounds fishy.
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 14 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 16-Mar-2004 15:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Christian Kemp):
... or smells fishy, even.
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 15 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by Bernie Meyer on 16-Mar-2004 15:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Ketzer):
So?The press release spells out what Itec (and indirectly KMOS) bought from AI.According to Hyperion, OS4 ownership wasn't AI's to sell. According to AI and Hyperion, neither of them even *have* the source code for OS 3.5/3.9, and while they might think that it's rightfully theirs, there appears bugger all chance of ever getting it out of H&P.Then there is the issue of sworn testimony hinting about "investors", but denying any significant source of income. If you sell some assets to someone, that someone isn't an investor, and the money you get isn't an investment, but rather income generated from the sale of an asset.You have to admit that there are rather large parts of this press release that, on the surface, look somewhat dubious. And be honest --- don't you get the same kind of feeling you got when the coupon fiasco was first announced? Or the feeling you got when AI "explained" why they had moved out of their offices?
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 16 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by MarkTime on 16-Mar-2004 15:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Bernie Meyer):
I agree with you all. I do not know why amiga fan's are celebrating, except that they always seem to do that.

This looks like it has a lot of obvious problems, and even if everything stated was true...from a community perspective, this makes Amiga, Inc. mostly irrelevant, while in some ways that could be considered positive...it really doesn't say anything about kmos.

Do we know yet that they have any money, any plan, or any chance? We don't know anything yet.

And of course, its hard to even speculate down that path, given the reliability of amiga, inc's statements...we kind of just have to sit here listening to various sides, and waiting for something to emerge as possibly being real.
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 17 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by Tigger on 16-Mar-2004 16:38 GMT
I also notice that everyone is acting as if this is an appeal, which it is not. The are just arguing with the judge (as was Bill Buck) on what the final outcome of Genesi's win should be. Given that, I think it interesting that Bill McEwen provided evidence that he committed perjury at least twice in depositions, and that Chang provided information that strongly implys that Amiga Inc could never have carried out there end of the Thendic contract. KMOS appears to be a shell game to hide the IP from creditors, and I dont think thats going to sit well with the judge.
-Tig
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 18 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by Spitballz on 16-Mar-2004 17:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Tigger):
Too true, tiggeroo!

Hey, Christian, shouldn't this "news" item's headline be changed? They did not file an appeal. Amiga, through newly acquired legal representation, is responding to the declarations filed by Thendic on 3/01. Not the same as filing an appeal, and to leave the headline as is indicates information which is not true.

Amiga is not appealing the judge's decision, as they probably want this whole thing to go away quickly without spending a lot of money. Instead, what they are doing is saying, "Fine, Buck, you won, here's a copy of AmigaDE to put on your hardware, because that's all we can give you. Good luck getting it to run."

The judge will clarify to both parties exactly what each is expected to give and receive. Each side is trying to persuade the judge to see the ruling from their POV.

Neither side looks good in this, btw. The only company I have sympathy for is Tao. They must wish they never signed anything with Amiga Inc. Hyperion, whom I admired for taking the initiative on OS4, is more than happy to go along with this KMOS nonsense, and for that they should be ashamed.

I watch this hilarious legal spectacle played out on my various Windows and Mac machines at home and office. Never would I purchase any products from any of these loser companies. None of them is doing anything to innovate the desktop user experience, and they're all as slimy as can be. They're just exploiting the wormy little euros (and our own little American wacko EyeAm) who still think an Amiga computer (never a truly successful product in the US, by any business standard) can compete with seasoned desktop offerings from MS, Apple, and the various Linux distros. It will never happen. And I think that's great.
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 19 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-Mar-2004 18:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Spitballz):
What the hell are you doing here then?
Get on with your oh-so-great-life and let the ones who care about this get on with theirs without your pathetic musings.
Amiga Vs Thendic Case : Comment 20 of 20ANN.lu
Posted by Graham_nli on 17-Mar-2004 04:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Tigger):
"Chang provided information that strongly implys that Amiga Inc could never have carried out there end of the Thendic contract"

Read that contract. Giving over the source code was never an option in the contract as far as I could see.

Direct link: http://www.mindrelease.net/amiga-thendic/show_case_doc_57,16781,3,MAGIC,0,1.pdf

Item 5.2 limits what code Thendic could ask for. Genesi are trying to gain access based upon part (ii) of this clause, i.e., Amiga Inc failed to meet its side of the contract. However Amiga Inc. say that the reason that they haven't created any software for Thendic's products is because Thendic didn't meet the requirements of Item 5.1, and thus Amiga Inc were unable to continue.

Bill Buck says he tried to deliver hardware, meeting requirement 5.1. Amiga Inc. are now saying that he never did, and that he lied to the court (committing perjury) in order to win the previous case. Regardless, hardware never made it to Amiga Inc so they couldn't continue.

Anyway, the contract was for Thendic's Windows CE based system, and then other Thendic created products. AmigaDE ran on Windows CE, it would have been a matter of getting the hardware and specs, and testing the software and making small fixes if required. I'm even granting that Genesi can even claim under this agreement, the definition of Thendic earlier on does say "affiliated" companies (with some limitations).
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